Simu teaches a corporate lesson on Customer Relations

[StrayRogue]

So I'm sure all you GS people who wanted to go on the third run of the Wavedancer know the story. Basically Simu were putting up the tickets for sale on Saturday at 3pm. The time comes and nothing. About an hour later we get a message saying sorry, somethings fucked up, we'll be doing it tommorow. Bear in mind they'd already screwed up the tickets on the first run.

So tommorow comes. Only the tickets go on sale an hour before they'd advertised.

Now, this has made a lot of people unhappy. I am uneffected thankfully, but I know alot who were looking forward to buying a First Class etc ticket. Now they can't.

You'd expect a timely fix to this problem? Wrong. Simu doesn't get onto the problem until TODAY where after a few pages of people complaining, asking for someone to tell them wtf is going on, and GMs trying to lighten the mood with "Fun quizes", Melissa posts a "Sorry, we can't do anything about it, don't expect anything for compensation", despite the fact a few hundred ideas had already been laid down.

Now I'm betting that when a few hundred people start posting about how shitty this situation is, Mel and her little posse of ass kissers, will become all defensive and begin removing such "unconstructive" posts.

All in all, a big thumbs up for decent Customer Services.

[Amaron]

They sold the second sailing's tickets an hour early as well and did nothing so I never expected them to do so this time.

J

[crazymage]

are you suprised?

[StrayRogue]

Course not. And as I suspected, the ass-kissing has begun. Gaerit wins the prize for this gem: "I mean really, grow up. You don't always get what you want in life. Buy a second class ticket and have fun, or use that $100 to go and have some fun elsewhere, like dinner and a movie. Or anime."

[Gan]

100 bucks will net you some pretty decent seats on opening day!

[FinisWolf]

Simu has screwed up each run. And they did naught to fix any of it. They are more then happy to take your money, its always been this way, and will continue to be so, as "we" the customer allow it.

Finiswolf

[Miss X]

Kinda feel sorry for Ysbail and Kitrina, I'd hate to be involved in customer relations at simu, it's another mess for them to clean up after.

I feel really sorry for all the players that didn't get the tickets they wanted, I doubt one sorry is enough for most of them. :shrug:

[CrystalTears]

I don't understand why people feel the need to tell others what to do with their money. If they want to spend it on an online event, so be it (so long as they don't complain about the price, mind you, they agreed to it if they're willing to pay for it).

With as many customers (or should say as few) as they have, why can't they just make some sort of compensation? Even if it's another run, or extra merchants, or ... something! I just can't understand their insistance to not be forgiving or helpful when THEY screw up. Especially with an already overpriced gaming event.

[Edited on 4/4/2005 by CrystalTears]

[HarmNone]

I can't say I'm surprised, but I really have to wonder at a corporate staff that seems unable to learn from previous mistakes.:nono:

[Gan]

Someone told me once that the definition of stupidity was doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results...

[Divinity]

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over while recieving the same results...

[Edited on 4-4-2005 by Divinity]

[Jolena]

Well, I'm lucky that Stun and I got to get on the maiden voyage 1st class, where yes there was another huge ticketing 'snafu' (in the words of melissa :lol: How ironic is THAT usage of the word)
I have to say though, that they did indeed try to make up for it and I for one, was pleased with the result. Opening up all of 2nd class, eliminating it even and combining the two for us to take care of the merchant issue was a great idea and it worked very well.

As for the ticketing fuckup with the 2nd and 3rd run, no they did not compensate or even consider the ideas of the people posting it seems. Bad form, Simu, just plain bad form. I feel sorry for those who wanted to go on the 1st class for either run and were 'snafu'd' out of it due to Simu's incompetance. When running a tiered event (which I think would work really well in the future but *only* if they do it right), it's extremely important to sell tickets when they say they will. EXTREMELY important. For the ability of all players involved to have the opportunity to get at those coveted items equally.

Aside from that, I was really *really* happy with my voyage on the Wavedancer on it's first run and have no complaints but for the lack of maps. The people on subsequent cruises will have that luxury, so they should have a great deal easier time then we all did wandering around like Rangers. :smilegrin:

[Amaron]

LOL Jolena

I loved the first run. And yes the only thing that pissed me off was running about like a rolton with its head cut off...

Was one of the better events... The first artisian faire still rules in my book as a great one as well as the second Dhu this last summer.


The postcard I had made for my album was one of Tol and I being lost.


J

[Apotheosis]

BTW, for all those people complaining about missing the tickets, are you really that surprised?

If it happened twice before, you should pretty much expect it to happen a third time

[HarmNone]

Originally posted by Yswithe
BTW, for all those people complaining about missing the tickets, are you really that surprised?

If it happened twice before, you should pretty much expect it to happen a third time

Actually, I see it exactly opposite to your view. If it happened before, I'd expect it NEVER to happen again.

[AnticorRifling]

I would have bought a stateroom just to get some armor done. Then I'd probably wander the ship because I've never been to a big event. That plan got kicked in the ass when the super from the wife's school district was like here's your pink slip enjoy the rest of the year....

[Apotheosis]

Originally posted by HarmNone

Originally posted by Yswithe
BTW, for all those people complaining about missing the tickets, are you really that surprised?

If it happened twice before, you should pretty much expect it to happen a third time

Actually, I see it exactly opposite to your view. If it happened before, I'd expect it NEVER to happen again.

cough, thinking in _simu_ terms, then you should expect it to happen a third time, right?

[Tromp]

Originally posted by Jolena
Well, I'm lucky that Stun and I got to get on the maiden voyage 1st class, where yes there was another huge ticketing 'snafu' (in the words of melissa :lol: How ironic is THAT usage of the word)
I have to say though, that they did indeed try to make up for it and I for one, was pleased with the result. Opening up all of 2nd class, eliminating it even and combining the two for us to take care of the merchant issue was a great idea and it worked very well.

i.e hugest example of someone who daily needs a roll a tp to wipe that GM crap off their lips

[HarmNone]

Originally posted by Yswithe

Originally posted by HarmNone

Originally posted by Yswithe
BTW, for all those people complaining about missing the tickets, are you really that surprised?

If it happened twice before, you should pretty much expect it to happen a third time

Actually, I see it exactly opposite to your view. If it happened before, I'd expect it NEVER to happen again.

cough, thinking in _simu_ terms, then you should expect it to happen a third time, right?

Heh. Perhaps. I try never to think "in-simu-terms". :lol:

[FinisWolf]

Originally posted by HarmNone

Originally posted by Yswithe
BTW, for all those people complaining about missing the tickets, are you really that surprised?

If it happened twice before, you should pretty much expect it to happen a third time

Actually, I see it exactly opposite to your view. If it happened before, I'd expect it NEVER to happen again.

That only works for a company that gives a shit about its clients Harm, or normal human beings... SIMU fits neiterh fo these as a company.

And, Jolena, while I agree that the cruise was great, they made a mistake by opening second class to first class privlidges, that meant more people able to hit what was supposed to be a FEWer people area, thus the price was also wrong, if anything, first class should of been deleted, and them simply say there is no first class, as there was not one on the first cruise.

Now, that being said, I honestly didn't care. I loved getting married, the quests (even the broken one [well, not well thought out one]).

Now, to oppose the other staterrom folks, I think maybe I am a bit weird here, as I think I actually like sitting in those damn lines LOL ... ::shrug:: I get visiting done then with old friends that I havn't seen in forever.

Anyway...

Finiswolf

[Jolena]

Originally posted by Tromp

Originally posted by Jolena
Part of my post blah blah

i.e hugest example of someone who daily needs a roll a tp to wipe that GM crap off their lips

Explain how it's kissing a GM's ass, to say that I personally feel their way of compensating for the 1st run ticket problems worked? I'm not the only person who felt that way nor do I see how I kissed someone's ass because I was pleased. :rolleyes:

[Jolena]

Originally posted by FinisWolf
And, Jolena, while I agree that the cruise was great, they made a mistake by opening second class to first class privlidges, that meant more people able to hit what was supposed to be a FEWer people area, thus the price was also wrong, if anything, first class should of been deleted, and them simply say there is no first class, as there was not one on the first cruise.

Actually, I would agree with that, had they not taken all the 2nd class merchants and given them to 1st class to compensate for the extra 1st class ticket holders. So in my opinion, even though there were more 1st class ticket holders then originally expected, there were more merchants as well, thereby giving us the same chance as we would have had before at getting merchant work done with less lengthy lines. And I didn't see any one 1st class or Ocean View merchant that had a huge line, myself. Not one.

[Apotheosis]

I suspect, honestly, that based on the services people receive, and raffles won, a person's perception of this particulare event, snafus included, are somewhat diminished.

On the other hand, if you didn't get alot of things done, or feel like you could have bought something better with the money you instead spent on the WD, you'll be pissed.

it's called cognitive dissidence, a common thing examined when looking at consumer purchase behavior.

[Tromp]

Originally posted by Jolena

Originally posted by Tromp

Originally posted by Jolena
Part of my post blah blah

i.e hugest example of someone who daily needs a roll a tp to wipe that GM crap off their lips

Explain how it's kissing a GM's ass, to say that I personally feel their way of compensating for the 1st run ticket problems worked? I'm not the only person who felt that way nor do I see how I kissed someone's ass because I was pleased. :rolleyes:

Your statement (not you in general and sorry if it came across so harsh geez what was I feeling) is Simu's just cause for treating its patrons like crap. It really isn't the Wave Dancer but the comedy of errors that has built into the now expected behavior and par for the course. If I were in business and my customers thought this of me I'd be out of business.

The few people who are in a little closer to the circle are basically hurting the whole. Kind of on the same line as special interest groups who think the talk for the whole gang. SIMU is getting feed back from limited people and it is usually positive because they are asking the same or listening to the same over and over.

Man I'm stopping right now and getting down from the soap box.

Jolena (or whatever yoru name is), I apologize if that came across bad.

[FinisWolf]

Originally posted by Jolena

Originally posted by FinisWolf
And, Jolena, while I agree that the cruise was great, they made a mistake by opening second class to first class privlidges, that meant more people able to hit what was supposed to be a FEWer people area, thus the price was also wrong, if anything, first class should of been deleted, and them simply say there is no first class, as there was not one on the first cruise.

Actually, I would agree with that, had they not taken all the 2nd class merchants and given them to 1st class to compensate for the extra 1st class ticket holders. So in my opinion, even though there were more 1st class ticket holders then originally expected, there were more merchants as well, thereby giving us the same chance as we would have had before at getting merchant work done with less lengthy lines. And I didn't see any one 1st class or Ocean View merchant that had a huge line, myself. Not one.

I don't know why you think there were more merchants Jolena... to me, and to date, Anfelt has had the most merchants, maybe the Dhu, definetly not the cruise.

BUT, like I posted in the officials, I got what I went for, and I am happy with that. And, no, the merchants are NOT what made me happy, nor wasit what I wanted.

Finiswolf

[Jolena]

Well you assume a lot, to be honest. I for one, haven't posted anything in the Wavedancer thread regarding how pleased I was about the event, nor do I belong to the 'few people who are a little closer to the circle'. I stumbled upon the Wavedancer tickets being sold for the maiden voyage (which were not announced btw) when I logged onto the website. I happened to be rather lucky I spose in that respect at getting a ticket.

I'm not excusing Simutronic's 'snafu's ' on this or any other event by any means. In fact i have posted here and on the official boards regarding my dislike for the screw ups. They are messing up, that is obvious. They should make sure that the tickets are sold on time and not overbooked. They should make sure that they are monitoring every aspect of the events that they commission to their player base. I agree completely.

My statement was merely that I personally enjoyed the 1st cruise a great deal and that I felt the compensation for the messup on overbooking the 1st class tickets in the first cruise was adequate. Would I rather they had not overbooked and gotten their shit together? Of course. Would I rather they had announced the tickets or even the event period beforehand for the 1st cruise? Definately. Would I rather they had not screwed up on the next two subsequent ticket sales? Yes, without a doubt.

Regardless, *I* had a good time and felt that my money's worth was given to me on this cruise with the arrangements they made to compensate for the overbooking. That's all.

[FinisWolf]

How Simu makes folks feel as of late...

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

...damn it hurts!

We all just need a HUG!

So...,

HUGS EVERYONE!

Finiswolf

[Tsa`ah]

Simple solution here. Look at the 800 number on the back of the credit card and give your provider a call. Refuse the charge and tell Simu to stick it.

If you're really sick of the shit, do so after you have used the ticket.

Service not as advertised.

[Soulpieced]

What I don't understand is why people ever bothered going to pay events in the first place. What a waste.

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Course not. And as I suspected, the ass-kissing has begun. Gaerit wins the prize for this gem: "I mean really, grow up. You don't always get what you want in life. Buy a second class ticket and have fun, or use that $100 to go and have some fun elsewhere, like dinner and a movie. Or anime."

Wow, Gaerit is a dweeb.

He needs a kick in his tiny balls.

[Snapp]

Originally posted by Soulpieced
What I don't understand is why people ever bothered going to pay events in the first place. What a waste.
In your opinion it is. In others' eyes, it obviously is not or else these events wouldn't exist.

[Hulkein]

Thanks, Cpt. Obvious.

[SpunGirl]

LOL. Typical Simu. You know.... something I find funny in this regard is one of Melissa's assertions in her "State of Elanthia" address last year at Simucon. She touched upon the fact that customers are always clamoring for consistency... in rules, in alterations, etc, etc. She said that Simu doesn't need to be consistent because they're always evolving, and that's the beauty of the product.

And yet, there IS one thing they manage to be consistent on... and that is fucking their customers right in the ass time after time (after time).

Ask for consistency and you shall receive. Just be careful what you wish for.

-K

[Edited on 4-5-2005 by SpunGirl]

[FinisWolf]

Originally posted by SpunGirl

and that is fucking their customers right in the ass time after time (after time).

-K

[Edited on 4-5-2005 by SpunGirl]

Damn, why you turning everyone on? ::cackle::

Finiswolf

[SpunGirl]

Why, Finiswolf, I had no idea your predilictions ran that way. ::snicker::

-K

[FinisWolf]

LMAO

Finiswolf

[SpunGirl]

You know what? I said this twice tonight (privately) to people and it occurs to me I should say it publicly as well.

If Simu weren't lucky enough to have certain people on staff, they would be screwed. I don't think they're evil, out to get us, or any of that stuff, but I do think they engage in very poor business practices over and over again. I would have left the game long ago if I didn't have friends who wanted to make me stay.

They should thank their lucky stars they have talented staff members who work for peanuts to provide enjoyment to their players.

-K

[StrayRogue]

Yeah. The game stay's afloat by the hard work of its volunteer force. As far as the buisness end...it has alot to learn.

[FinisWolf]

Originally posted by SpunGirl
You know what? I said this twice tonight (privately) to people and it occurs to me I should say it publicly as well.

If Simu weren't lucky enough to have certain people on staff, they would be screwed. I don't think they're evil, out to get us, or any of that stuff, but I do think they engage in very poor business practices over and over again. I would have left the game long ago if I didn't have friends who wanted to make me stay.

They should thank their lucky stars they have talented staff members who work for peanuts to provide enjoyment to their players.

-K

Agreed, and with you as well Stay. I changed my mind about becoming a GM..., I wouldn't feel right working, saying I worked for, SIMU. Wonder why?

Finiswolf

[StrayRogue]

Let me just add to Jolena's post, I enjoyed the Wavedancer thoroughly and cheer the hard work the GM's do. Its not with them whom I have a problem. Its SIMU in general.

[theotherjohn]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Let me just add to Jolena's post, I enjoyed the Wavedancer thoroughly and cheer the hard work the GM's do. Its not with them whom I have a problem. Its SIMU in general.


what is the difference between GMs and Simu?

[CrystalTears]

There are certain GMs that are actually good, who go out of their way to fix problems and answer questions. However Simu as a whole isn't that cooperative.

[SpunGirl]

Most GMs are, as I understand it, independent contractors that Simu pays next to nothing to do craploads of work for them... world development, storylines, merchants, coding, etc, etc.

Simu screws with them the same way they screw with the players. The are passed over promotions they should receive on merit, or they are bumped out of positions they deserve due to a personal problem with someone else on staff.

Or they dump Whatley and get fired.

-K

[Edited on 4-5-2005 by SpunGirl]

[Jazuela]

And yet, there IS one thing they manage to be consistent on... and that is fucking their customers right in the ass time after time (after time).

If that is the general perception of things (and it seems this is the case) -

Maybe it's because the customers keep bending over? They see complaint after complaint after complaint, but at the same time they see people paying for the privilege of bending over and taking it. Obviously whatever they're doing is working for their profit line, so why should they change what works?

It's been said time and again, over the course of a decade or more: If you truly feel this game has caused you to be angry, disgusted, inconvenienced, if you truly feel that the game has cost more than it is worth, you have the right to find your entertainment elsewhere. If you choose not to find your entertainment elsewhere, then you must accept, that you have accepted, the game and all the flaws you see in it, because over the course of a decade it sounds obvious to me that they have no intention to change.

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by theotherjohn

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Let me just add to Jolena's post, I enjoyed the Wavedancer thoroughly and cheer the hard work the GM's do. Its not with them whom I have a problem. Its SIMU in general.


what is the difference between GMs and Simu?

One is a company with policy about making money regardless, the other are people who believe in the game and try to make it better while providing a more fun environment for their customers.

[ElanthianSiren]

Originally posted by Soulpieced
What I don't understand is why people ever bothered going to pay events in the first place. What a waste.


I gotta agree with SP here. With the exception of the first pay events, where you could get padded weapon and items, the cost of these events just isn't worth it to me.

I might have been spoiled working on another game and seeing that I could create scripted items that SIMU charges big cash for in 10 minutes. As a player now, the costs just can't outweigh the benefits.

Further, Simu gets a subscription and nothing else from me for their great problem management skills. I can't justify (to myself) paying them any more.

-Melissa

[CrystalTears]

Have they ever stated what the money that is received for these events paying? (I'm literally laughing asking that now knowing what the answer will or could be.)

Are they giving it to the GMs that are working the event? Because other than that, I can't see why they need to charge so much money for them.

[Jolena]

Kind of ironic, because I was just speaking to an old friend who used to play GS years ago, the other night. He and I were discussing how the game has changed mechanics wise, items wise, and even RP wise.

I can tell you the pull for me to attend these events is the ability to see and interact with multiple RP'ers who in my opinion are the best in the game. I don't get to see them that often due to being in different parts of Elanthia most of the time and so this is the perfect opportunity for me. THAT is the reason I pay for the events for the most part. The quests, as well now that I think about it. Getting merchant work done is great because it helps me to develop my character even more by having items that are significant to her as well as showing her heritage, culture and style. That to me, helps others get to know who Jolena and my other characters truly are. (if they take the time to look and/or interact with her that is)

I realize that Simu has gone with the 'we get our money regardless so cater to the masses rather then the minority' philosophy and I can't say I blame them when it comes down to it. Gone are the days (as I was discussing with my friend) where the game was based around honest RP and not just anyone who could get a subscription. I lament it's death, however to be honest, I have been lucky enough to find at least 15 or so really good RP'ers who make my time in game enjoyable. I stay away from the rest in order to not let it ruin my gameplay for me. I would probably quit the game if those 15 people decided to leave and there was not the RP interaction I play for.

On the business side, SIMU really does need some work on how to run a business properly. They are not consistant with their rules, they don't pay their GM's enough for all the work they do (kudos btw to the GM's because most of them have made my time in Gemstone very much worth it), and they definately don't do much to compensate when they screw up. I would love to see all of that corrected but I don't expect it to be done. As someone else said in another thread I believe, insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

In conclusion I spose the things that keep me here are the same things that keep the other long time players and RP'ers in the game. Interaction with the few truly good RP'ers left, GM interaction that is amazing and well-thought out, and friends we have all made during our time playing. If it were not for that, I would have left a long time ago.

[SpunGirl]

I think, CT, that GMs receive a portion of profits dependent on the amount of work the do on said event. I don't know how that's decided, though.

-K

[SiKWiDiT]

Originally posted by Jazuela

Maybe it's because the customers keep bending over? ...

It's been said time and again, over the course of a decade or more: If you truly feel this game has caused you to be angry, disgusted, inconvenienced, if you truly feel that the game has cost more than it is worth, you have the right to find your entertainment elsewhere. If you choose not to find your entertainment elsewhere, then you must accept, that you have accepted, the game and all the flaws you see in it, because over the course of a decade it sounds obvious to me that they have no intention to change.

You cannot find another text-based game like Gemstone anywhere else.

That does not make it right for Simutronics to capitalize on this fact, and to consistantly fuck over the paying customers that they have; Knowing that because of the lack of other text-based role-playing games on the market that these players will stay on for lack of somewhere else to spend their money for a good time.

[Apotheosis]

once again all i hear is people bitch about simu.. yet no one has come up with a single shred of accounting evidence that proves that changing their approach will

A> make them more money

and

B> that they even make a profit, or even break even, every year.

[SiKWiDiT]

WTF are you talking about?

[Apotheosis]

I am just stating and asking if anyone even considers their financial position.
Whether or not this game makes a profit might be an indication as to whether or not service rendered is fair..

i'm coming from the point of view where, perhaps this is all the service they can afford/have time to do, and that there's really no grand conspiracy to screw over its customers.

IE: I play the devils advocate

[TheRoseLady]

The GMs get their payment primarily in the form of being able to put their creative juices to work. To many, being a GM is some mystical place that enables them to hold power (even if it's rather meaningless) but at the same time permits them to labor over something that gives them joy and in some cases validation. If they did it for the money, well they wouldn't be doing it.

As for whomever said something along the lines of 'well if you're that miserable get up and leave..." People don't just wake up one day and say that they are disatisfied, it's like a bad marriage, unsatisfactory job etc ...it creeps on you slowly then when you have had your fill you call it quits. Some folks are appeased long enough to return for several more years of bliss.

I've honestly dealt with much worse companies than Simu, that's for damn sure.

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by Yswithe
I am just stating and asking if anyone even considers their financial position.
Whether or not this game makes a profit might be an indication as to whether or not service rendered is fair..

i'm coming from the point of view where, perhaps this is all the service they can afford/have time to do, and that there's really no grand conspiracy to screw over its customers.

IE: I play the devils advocate

Earning little to no profit is not an excuse to brush off customers and their opinions on matters, or from informing them of changes in a timely manner.

I'm not saying that they are purposely screwing over anyone, or that it's a grand conspiracy. What I AM saying is that they have poor business sense and it has nothing to do with how much money you make.

You would think, logically speaking, that if they were looking for a profit and cared about making the almighty dollar, they would care better and put that extra effort into pleasing their customers, not pissing them off and causing them to not only leave, but to not recommend the business and/or their games to others.

[Xcalibur]

I'm sure they experienced both ways and are doing the most profitable way now.

In no way a new compagny would do that kind of things, it's called an economic suicide.

Simu is arrogant because of some reasons, and also because its clients LET them do that kind of behavior.