Car/Law question.

[Trinitis]

Ok, question for all you more experienced in these type of matters.

A friend of mine made a verbal agreement with a co-worker into buying a car from him. This was about 6 months ago. He had the cash on hand to buy it right then and there, but refused to hand over all the cash without the title being handed back (they were at work).

So they agreed that he would make payments, and once the last payment was made, the title would be turned over.

Now the problem. My friend has atempted to make the last payment at least 10 times in the past month. He calls this guy, plays phone/pager tag. When he DOES get ahold of the guy, they set up a date/time to make the exchange, and the guy never shows, or bails out at the last moment. Its been over 30 days of this stuff.

Now we found out that the guy reported the car stolen, because he has not gotten a payment in over a month. What can we do about this?

[Artha]

Kick his ass.

[Scott]

Did he pay with cash or check?

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by Artha
Kick his ass.

I'd greatly perfer actual constructive ideas for this serious question please.

[Caiylania]

I don't think he can do anything if he didn't write up and have a contract agreeing to their deal signed by both of them and notarized.

Did he get receipts for the money he paid? Anything like that?

[Mint]

I hope he isn't driving the car while it's reported stolen...

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by Gemstone101
Did he pay with cash or check?

Cash. This car is not like some big thing. I mean..he is paying $400 for it grand total. Its not grand..but it gets him from point A to point B.

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by Caiylania
I don't think he can do anything if he didn't write up and have a contract agreeing to their deal signed by both of them and notarized.

Did he get receipts for the money he paid? Anything like that?

My friend is kinda the trusting sort. Matter of fact, he told me I was being too paranoid when I told him to use my computer to draw up a contact and payment plan the day they made the deal. But then again..I AM Paranoid when it comes to things like this. I *extreamly* hate people ripping me off on crap like this.

[Scott]

If he paid with Cash, then there is not a whole lot he can do. Trusting or not, ALWAYS pay with a check, because it's something you can use to prove you paid for something, even without a contract. You're friend is SOL.

[Edaarin]

Verbal agreements aren't binding. Your friend needs to learn from this and from now on get everything in writing.

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by Edaarin
Verbal agreements aren't binding. Your friend needs to learn from this and from now on get everything in writing.

Well, I was in a courthouse a while back when a friend ran into some trouble with the law (different friend), and the judge there said the verbal agreement WAS binding, because the lady had a witness. There were coworkers there.

[Wezas]

Have your buddy talk to guy's boss. Then everyone would be fucked, not just your friend.

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by Wezas
Have your buddy talk to guy's boss. Then everyone would be fucked, not just your friend.

The boss? Why?

[Caiylania]

Originally posted by LordAdredrinMy friend is kinda the trusting sort. Matter of fact, he told me I was being too paranoid when I told him to use my computer to draw up a contact and payment plan the day they made the deal. But then again..I AM Paranoid when it comes to things like this. I *extreamly* hate people ripping me off on crap like this.

That sucks. Even if it's your brother, a contract should be used. It's not insulting, keeps both parties honest, and helps from hurting friendships and such.

I have friend's taking care of my horse and our truck while we are gone, and with the help of a lawyer I had a contract and SPoA written up. They might be our best friends... but you never know.

[Scott]

Originally posted by LordAdredrin

Originally posted by Edaarin
Verbal agreements aren't binding. Your friend needs to learn from this and from now on get everything in writing.

Well, I was in a courthouse a while back when a friend ran into some trouble with the law (different friend), and the judge there said the verbal agreement WAS binding, because the lady had a witness. There were coworkers there.

A verbal agreement CAN be binding. The only problem is that the guy can say that he never paid him, and your friend has NO proof at all, since he paid in cash.

[Ravenstorm]

Verbal contacts are quite definitely binding. However, there may be a maximum dollar amount for it (ie: only 5k or under or some such unless that's been changed). The problem of course is proof.

How many months was he making payments? Since he was paying in cash and without receipts, he would need to establish some sort of circumstancial proof. For instance, if he withdrew $100 from the bank every single month at the same time of the month for X months, his withdrawal slips, while not actual proof, can help establish his case.

Next, phone records from his phone showing he called the other guy several times in the last month. Again, that's circumstancial evidence backing up his claim.

But most importantly, I'm fairly certain that filing a stolen car report because of a buyer defaulting on a payment falls under filing a false police report. Defaulting is not theft. if this guy ius dumb enough to admit that the car was not actually stolen but that there was just one missed payment, he can be in deep shit. If he's lucky, the police won't charge him.

If though, your friend gets arrested or charged with theft, he should sue the guy for making a false accusation.

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer and am not giving out legal advice.

Raven

[Delirium]

If you know for a fact he really did report the car stolen id go down to the cop shop with some witnesses who were there when they agreed to the deal and talk with the cops. Otherwise cops have really bad timing and will get your friend at the worst possible time. Hopefully some of you also saw him pay the guy once in a while and heard the deal as stated too?

[Apathy]

If your friend has witnesses (which you seem to be, but the more present the more convincing), take the bum's ass to small claims court. A witness for the verbal agreement being made will be some proof that they agreed to a transaction and the fact that your friend has the car right now should go along with that, which in turn will make the guy's stolen vehicle report look like bullshit.

If you don't want to take him to court, you may be amazed of the power of an idle threat of court. Not too many people actually like to be in court.

If none of that works, tell your friend to forget the car and get his money back. If the guy won't give it back, then I suggest you mug him. Yes, it's illegal but it is gratifying.

[SpunGirl]

Gather any scrap of evidence you can and take the fucker to small claims court. He might bail out and make good on the agreement the second he receives the summons.

And yes, talk to the police about the filing of the report.

-K

[Galleazzo]

Whether the contract's enforceable depends on the state. Different states have different laws about the validity of verbal contracts. That contract would NOT be legal in Massachusetts, for instance, without a signed transfer of title at rock bottom.

Now in front of a judge it wouldn't be completely SOL. "I've been driving the car X months, I paid $ Y, and he only now reports it stolen?"

But the friend didn't even get receipts for his payments? Man, that's real dumb. What your friend needs isn't advice from a bulletin board, he needs to nut up and get himself a lawyer.

[Mistomeer]

A lawyer over $400? LOL. The lawyer would cost more than the damn car. He needs to just go to small claims court, like everyone else has said. Or go to TV court; I prefer Judge Joe Brown. Also, he can establish when he got the car, and how long he's been making payments, and get a date on the police report. It doesn't make sense that if he's had the car for 4 months, that the guy is only reporting it stolen 3 months later. So he can establish most every part of the contract, except the last payment deal.

[Galleazzo]

Small claims court doesn't quite cut it at this point; the guy's been reported for stealing a car, and that's a pretty serious bit of bizness.

[AnticorRifling]

Get the guys SSN and his mother's maiden name for me. I'll handle the rest. And do you care what happens to the asshat?

[Wezas]

Wow, wish I had the kind of connections Anticor had.

I guess if you follow him to an ATM and give me the address & time I could get his card number, but that's about it.

[AnticorRifling]

I learned from my dad. Some dude was stalking my Aunt and my dad found out alittle info on the guy, he the had the power shut off to his house, really nasty porn and toys delivered to his work (paid for by the guys on credit cards) etc. Then called the guy and said it would stop if he left her alone. We never saw the guy again.

[Galleazzo]

You don't need huge connections. Get the following:

- SSN
- current home address
- date and place of birth.

You don't even need to get mother's maiden name, because what you're gonna do is order a copy of the guy's birth certificate which has that information, it's public record. you have to pay a few bucks for it. Pay more and you can get an attested copy. Then rifle the guy's mailbox for some bills. Take a bill and the birth certificate to the local DMV, say you lost your license, give them the SSN, get a new photo ID. Use that to get a mail drop -- there are lots of places you can do it, truckers do it all the time to set up "local" residence for tax purposes. Send away for a replacement SS card.

Now you got the son of a bitch by the balls. If you get his bank account info, and that's easy, you use that and his home address to set up all sorts of online subscriptions (why not give him a Plat sub and then send Gifts of Adventure to the characters you hate?). Do it from an Internet cafe or a university computer and you can Google to set him up with sleazy kiddie porn subs. That way there'll be enough in monthly charges to clean out his account at the end of the month, so his rent and all his utility checks bounce. Before you log off, get onto one of the major chat players and set up a chatroom called "OLDER MAN LOOKING FOR UNDERAGE CHERRY." Chat a bit with the gal who responds, because 50% it's one of those New Hampshire cops who go online full time looking for pedophiles. I bet I don't have to tell you what to say or who you claim to be and where you live.

Fuck him up even worse if you have access to syringes and drugs and mail him some. Or get an envelope (USE GLOVES!!), address it to the White House, put a razor blade covered in beef blood in it along with white powder, and stick it in his outgoing mail.

At the end of all of this you have a guy who wishes he was dead, because he's already in hell. Enjoy.

:laser:

[AnticorRifling]

Galleazzo,

I like how you think. We could have some fun with people.

[Galleazzo]

Yep, true. Now that treatment will take time, money and energy, no error. Depends on how bad you want to mess someone up, really.

:hang: