Looks like they beheaded the other hostage.

[Weedmage Princess]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/06/18/saudi.kidnap/index.html

[Kadumi]

:flamed:

[Hips]

Honestly, is anyone surprised?

[DeV]

How can people give such little credence to human life. Saddening.

[Parkbandit]

I say we get back into the US.. close our borders.. and our eyes.. and hopefully, it will all just go away like a bad dream.

[longshot]

Originally posted by DarkelfVold
How can people give such little credence to human life. Saddening.

They have been doing it for a long, long time.

[GSLeloo]

That's sick... I don't how anyone can just kill an innocent person and display it on the internet.

[Sean]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
I say we get back into the US.. close our borders.. and our eyes.. and hopefully, it will all just go away like a bad dream.

I think we should nuke them all.

Oh wait I'm sorry I thought we were just using extreme example of radicals vs isolationist to take a shot at the opposing view.

[GSLeloo]

I know it's not suprising I just wish people would treat others how they wish to be treated. I wish they'd just not go after innocent people who have no involvement in the war. It's like taking a child hostage, it's wrong. I could never do that to someone.

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Tijay

Originally posted by Parkbandit
I say we get back into the US.. close our borders.. and our eyes.. and hopefully, it will all just go away like a bad dream.

I think we should nuke them all.

Oh wait I'm sorry I thought we were just using extreme example of radicals vs isolationist to take a shot at the opposing view.

PB----> :wedgie: <-----Tijay

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Wezas

Originally posted by Tijay

Originally posted by Parkbandit
I say we get back into the US.. close our borders.. and our eyes.. and hopefully, it will all just go away like a bad dream.

I think we should nuke them all.

Oh wait I'm sorry I thought we were just using extreme example of radicals vs isolationist to take a shot at the opposing view.

PB----> :wedgie: <-----Tijay

:punch:

Bring it Tijay...

PB > :rock: < Tijay

[DeV]

Originally posted by longshot

Originally posted by DarkelfVold
How can people give such little credence to human life. Saddening.

They have been doing it for a long, long time. I know. Its not surprising in the least either.

[Sean]

Help FBI! PB commited a hate crime!

[Skirmisher]

It's appalling.

What was it, 14 of the terrorists involved in the 9/11 attack were from there.

The majority of funding came from there.

Osama is from there.

When that group stormed the oil compound killed innocent people and took other hostage, they....."msyteriously" all escaped a surrounded compound when stormed by Saudi troops.

The Saudis support countless uber conservative religious "schools' where hate of the US is taught.

The graduates of those school tend to move out to other countries and draw others into their fold eg: Bin Laden

Really makes you wonder if we invaded the wrong country.

[Parkbandit]

Civil war in Saudi Arabia within a year or two. Big flashpoint.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Skirmisher
Really makes you wonder if we invaded the wrong country. Jon Stewart would apparently agree with you. He commented last (?) night on the "Bush Doctrine", the idea that we go after all terrorists and anyone who harbors them...

...unless it's Saudia Arabia, Yemen, Pakistan, and one other place that I can't remember. It was quite humorous.

[Ravenstorm]

We couldn't possibly do anything to insult our good friend, Bandar. That would just be rude.

Raven

[Nakiro]

How horrible.

:violin:

[Drew]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm
Jon Stewart would apparently agree with you. He commented last (?) night on the "Bush Doctrine", the idea that we go after all terrorists and anyone who harbors them...

...unless it's Saudia Arabia, Yemen, Pakistan, and one other place that I can't remember. It was quite humorous.

One thing at a time. Maybe Saudi Arabi does help terrorists but they certainly give lip service and more to the cause of defeating them. They let out troops in their country, they have task forces devoted to capturing terrrorists, they give a good amount of money to the cause. The situation is similar in Pakistan. The terrorists are trying to kill the leader (dictator) of that country, there has been 3 seperate attacks that nearly killed him in the last half year. If the terrorists are trying to kill you, you are probably doing at least something right.



I'm not saying that these countries are perfect or anywhere close to it, but if people are going into conniptions over invading Iraq, how much more so would they be if we invaded these countries. Now with Afghanistan and Iraq firmly under Allied control, the two countries still doing the most to support terrorism are Iran and Syria. Sadly, America has shown it doesn't have the backbone to tough it out and never stop fighting terrorism like George Bush promised shortly after 9/11. In the current political climate Bush could never invade these countries, so all the good work we did in Afghanistan and Iraq will likely be for naught.

I think it's a sad commentary on our generation that only 50 years after "The Greatest Generation" who sacrifieced nearly 500,000 of their own sons and daughter defending freedom at home by fighting abroad we are so timid that 500 dead is now reason to withdraw.



Edited for grammar

[Edited on 6-18-2004 by Drew]

[Kadumi]

fyi, the reason the sr is no longer an mxb forum is because someone posted a link to the nick berg video. this seems to be along the same vein.

[Sean]

Theres a little more too it than that Kadumi. It had to do with the servers personal opinion of the site and its commentary as well.

[Souzy]

Ugh...I keep thinking about the first beheading video. I hate Bush, but I hope Bush shits all over them. Then you got the innocent people there too. But, still...I hope he shits all over them. Poor poor poor civilians.

[Artha]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,123117,00.html"]Saudi ("[url) Al Qaeda leader killed[/url]?

I know, I know...it's Fox news. But they're apparently reporting that Al Jazeera had it first.

[Meos]

We should do like the russians did with the KGB and send in the CIA to start killing these people and if not them threatin their families... But no... we have to be a nation of bleeding heart liberals.

[Artha]

They might've been dirty commies, but they were effective at dealing with terrorism.

[Kadumi]

Originally posted by Meos
We should do like the russians did with the KGB and send in the CIA to start killing these people and if not them threatin their families... But no... we have to be a nation of bleeding heart liberals.

THIS IS WHAT I DON'T FUCKING UNDERSTAND.

The Russians do something like that yet when the US breathes wrong we get all sorts of crap from the international community.

For some reason, even here in the US, the media largely chose ignore what the Russians did. The Russians didn't get much crap. Where were those bleeding hearts liberals?

For real people, take a look around. Compare the US to any other country. Did you know that in Mexico you're guilty until proven innocent and therefore have no rights?

So the next time you hear the story about the MP or whoever it was that beat the 'alleged' terrorists, watch the Nick Berg video or pull up the above website.

[Skirmisher]

Drew, I don't know what to say except that you are quite wrong if you do not think that Saudi Arabia plays a larger role in the creation and sustaining of the current terrorist groups who are most dangerous to the US.

They supply the money. <-----This cannot be stated strongly enough.

They supply the educated planners.

They supply a good number of the religious leaders.

These are just are not debatable issues.

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Artha
They might've been dirty commies, but they were effective at dealing with terrorism.

Some Iraqis are saying the same thing about Saddam.

I guess the question is just how far can you go before becoming that which you are trying to destroy.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Kadumi
The Russians do something like that yet when the US breathes wrong we get all sorts of crap from the international community.I suppose Russians killing Russians seems better than Americans killing Iraqis. Then again, I'm not international.

[Artha]

Yep (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=586&e=1&u=/nm/20040618/wl_nm/security_saudi_muqrin_dc), they got the top Saudi guy.

[Drew]

Originally posted by Skirmisher
Drew, I don't know what to say except that you are quite wrong if you do not think that Saudi Arabia plays a larger role in the creation and sustaining of the current terrorist groups who are most dangerous to the US.

They supply the money. <-----This cannot be stated strongly enough.

They supply the educated planners.

They supply a good number of the religious leaders.

These are just are not debatable issues.


I don't disagree with anything you say, but the government is officially against terrorism and is doing something about it, not enough, but more than Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq, or Iran ever has. I wouldn't want a country to invade America because the KKK funds a lot of the racism and violence against black in America.

Saudi Arabia is a problem (a very complicated one), some of the royal family are pro-terrorist, some are ambivilant, some are anti-terrorist (Prince Bandar seems to be especially so) it's a very complicated situation, I'd like them to do more, believe you me, I have no love for them. But I don't think invading them would solve anything, like it did with Iraq and Afghanistan.

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Drew
I don't disagree with anything you say, but the government is officially against terrorism and is doing something about it, not enough, but more than Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq, or Iran ever has. I wouldn't want a country to invade America because the KKK funds a lot of the racism and violence against black in America.
Thank goodness for a strong american military eh?

I mean come now....we are talking international disputes but i did not say for the US to invade. Yet.

I do think much more pressure needs to be brought to bear thought and much less pussyfooting.

I did not appreciate Germany's cold response to the US actions in Iraq, but we now are looking at reducing our forces in Germany by a huge percentage along the lines of two thirds if i recall correctly. The New York Times had an excellent article this weekend dealing with this very topic.

We keep money and troops in Saudi Arabia, we are planning on moving a large number of them to i believe Turkey..from Germany. Taking them from one of our most stable allies in the world and all the money that is used to maintain those bases and the troops that man them as well. That money and those personel will be placed in a not anywhere near so friendly country with a far greater chance of terrorism to go along with it.

And why? Politics. We are mad at the Germans so we will cut off our noses to spite our own faces.




Saudi Arabia is a problem (a very complicated one), some of the royal family are pro-terrorist, some are ambivilant, some are anti-terrorist (Prince Bandar seems to be especially so) it's a very complicated situation, I'd like them to do more, believe you me, I have no love for them. But I don't think invading them would solve anything, like it did with Iraq and Afghanistan.

The Royal family is terrified of the religious extremeism that exists in their country and will NEVER make any serious moves against it until backed into a corner, be it by them, or us.

[Drew]

And why? Politics. We are mad at the Germans so we will cut off our noses to spite our own faces.

Not exactly, we have/had troops in Germany to have a quick strike force against the Soviet army. It cost us a crapload of money to move them to the middle east (where all the action happens these days) so we realized it was wiser to move them to Turkey and Saudi Arabia.

[Artha]

Germans: You must vithdraw troops now!!

US: Ok, we'll take the troops out of Germany.

Germans: Nein! Nein! Withdraw from IRAQ!!

[Blazing247]

<We should do like the russians did with the KGB and send in the CIA to start killing these people and if not them threatin their families... But no... we have to be a nation of bleeding heart liberals.>

Heh, anyone see the episode of 24 where Bauer is trying to find the location of the nuke, and the guy won't tell? After torturing him and interrogating him for hours, Jack sits him down in a room by himself and pops on the TV. Halfway around the world, Special Forces show up on the TV screen with a gun pointed to the head of his wife and son. He gave up that info real quick after that.

With that said, I don't think there are many justifiable reasons to threaten a family, especially a child. Impending nuclear war would be one of the few.

[Artha]

The KGB didn't threaten.

Someone got beheaded, the KGB tracked them down, then found their families. Then they mailed the families to the terrorists, in little bits and pieces. Then there were no more beheadings. They also buried the remains of suicide bombers with pork, denying them a martyr's paradise.

They're inhumane, but they're effective.

[Xcalibur]

For many countries, the US are the devil. And "religion" war were, historicly, very long lasting.

Speculation: Al qaeda suceeds into puting a small nuke in New-York and blow it: 75,000 deads and terribe fallout.

US's reaction?

World's reaction?

[Edited on 19-6-04 by Xcalibur]

[Blazing247]

<Speculation: Al qaeda suceeds into puting a small nuke in New-York and blow it: 75,000 deads and terribe fallout.

US's reaction? >

It all depends on who is in office. Talk shit about Bush all you want, but when shit hits the fan, you WANT a man like him in office. Look at the shit Clinton put us in by pussyfooting around the issue. A terrorist does not care about their own life, but I suspect we haven't had a nuke dropped on American soil because they know that the country they are from, their friends, and their family, would no longer exist.

[Blazing247]

<Someone got beheaded, the KGB tracked them down, then found their families. Then they mailed the families to the terrorists, in little bits and pieces. Then there were no more beheadings. They also buried the remains of suicide bombers with pork, denying them a martyr's paradise.>

You know, I never heard of this. I'm assuming this was in Lebanon? You have a link to this information by chance?

[Artha]

You know, I never heard of this. I'm assuming this was in Lebanon? You have a link to this information by chance?

I heard it in the comments section of fark.com, so there's a real possibility it might be incorrect. But I'll go check.

edit 1: Here's something that's sort of similar, except Israel instead of Russia, and only 2 non-terrorist deaths. Link ("http://www.specialoperations.com/Counterterrorism/operation_wrath_of_god.html").

edit 2: A quick search didn't turn up much. But if it did happen, I wasn't alive when it did, and so I don't know years or anything...which makes it harder.

[Edited on 6-19-2004 by Artha]

[Edited on 6-19-2004 by Artha]

[Delirium]

Im assuming most have seen the pictures of this guy beheaded by now. Did you also notice the tape of when he was interviewed he was wearing regular clothes and the pictures of him beheaded were in an orange jumpsuit? Wasnt that one of the huge signs it was a conspiracy that the US killed Nick to get attention off the prison abuses? So this is just another conspiracy or the first orange jumpsuit meant jack shit. I feel terrible for both of these guys and hope they went quickly. Damn savages.

[DeV]

They are not even worthy of being called savages. These terrorists truly sicken me with their justifications on why its ok to kill innocent people in this manner.

[i remember halloween]

we blew ghadafi's children to hell and that whipped his bitch ass into shape pretty quickly. it works.

[Weedmage Princess]

Originally posted by Blazing247
It all depends on who is in office. Talk shit about Bush all you want, but when shit hits the fan, you WANT a man like him in office. Look at the shit Clinton put us in by pussyfooting around the issue. A terrorist does not care about their own life, but I suspect we haven't had a nuke dropped on American soil because they know that the country they are from, their friends, and their family, would no longer exist.

Eh, have to disagree with you here. Many people seem to forget this, but remember back in the summer of 1998 when our forces went into the Sudan, because they had credible information that one of the most dangerous terrorist organization's leader was hiding out there? Know who they were looking for? None other than--yes you guessed it-- AL QAEDA OPERATIVES and OSAMA BIN LADEN. Despite having creditable evidence, everyone gave Clinton and his administration a load of crap and accused him of trying to take the spotlight off of the whole Monica Lewinski scandal. The term being thrown around was "Wag The Dog" like that movie. Fast forward 3 years later and hey...Al Qaeda operatives are flying hijacked planes out of Logan Airport into the Twin Towers. Wag the Dog what?

So to try and make a comment like that suggesting Clinton didn't or wouldn't have taken a proactive stance when our country was in danger is erroneous.

I will say I'm glad Gore wasn't in office when 9-11 happened though.

[Edited on 6-20-2004 by Weedmage Princess]

[Nieninque]

(CNN) -- Saudi security forces on Saturday told CNN they killed Abdel Aziz al-Muqrin -- their most-wanted militant and the self-proclaimed leader of al Qaeda in Saudi Arabia. Al-Muqrin claimed responsibility for the beheading of U.S. hostage Paul Johnson Jr.

- - - -

Good news if its true. Have seen it disputed on a couple of websites, so here's hoping.

[Blazing247]

<So to try and make a comment like that suggesting Clinton didn't or wouldn't have taken a proactive stance when our country was in danger is erroneous. >

The point is, Clinton reduced funding for our military when he was in office. He weakened our military's state of readiness amongst other questioanble choices, and that is an indisputable fact.

[Weedmage Princess]

Perhaps but isn't that a different argument from saying this:

>>It all depends on who is in office. Talk shit about Bush all you want, but when shit hits the fan, you WANT a man like him in office. Look at the shit Clinton put us in by pussyfooting around the issue.<<

Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you're getting at there, but what I got from that statement was that Clinton would be kind of passive had something like 9-11 happened when he was president, not anything about his military spending cuts and the like.

[Blazing247]

The statements are corollary. Yes, Clinton weakened our military. And yes, Clinton pussyfooted around the intelligence he was given by the CIA. Operation Bojinka. Next time you post a response to me, either make a point or don't post at all.

[Weedmage Princess]

I did make a point--that being that he didn't "pussyfoot" around anything...and when he did make a move, he nearly got crucified for it. How about you A) quit backpeddling when your first statement insinuated that Clinton didn't take a proactive stance to issues regarding terrorism after having it pointed out to you that he did, then trying to sham with the "Oh he cut military spending and that's what I meant" cause it wasn't...and B)don't get nasty because you have a hard time figuring simple things like that out. Thanks. :)

Edited to add:

Please try to reply to this without going into a tirade of swearing and making extraneous insults because I'm trying to have a conversation, not exchange lame schoolground insults which seem to be the norm.

and

Looks like they have another one, a South Korean this time.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/06/20/iraq.main/index.html


[Edited on 6-20-2004 by Weedmage Princess]

[DianaBanana]

Sadly, he'll probably meet the same fate as the man from NJ.

[Blazing247]

<I did make a point--that being that he didn't "pussyfoot" around anything>

You are wrong. Obviously you missed the headline which read "U.S. Warned In 1995 Of Plot To Hijack Planes, Attack Buildings". Well shit, dumbass, who was President at that time? This is just one of many warnings he received and "pussyfooted" around. So how about you :stfu: on that issue.

<How about you A) quit backpeddling when your first statement insinuated that Clinton didn't take a proactive stance to issues regarding terrorism after having it pointed out to you that he did, then trying to sham with the "Oh he cut military spending and that's what I meant" cause it wasn't>

A) I didn't backpeddle. At all. The statements are COROLLARY. Which means, one is the next logical progression of the other. My failure to comment specifically on that issue is NOT backpeddling. So you can :stfu: on that one, too.

<B)don't get nasty because you have a hard time figuring simple things like that out. Thanks. >

B) Way to take a potshot without coming right out and calling me ignorant. Have you ever contributed any worthwhile and intelligent information into a serious conversation? Doubtful. So how about you :stfu: on that issue, as well.

<Please try to reply to this without going into a tirade of swearing and making extraneous insults because I'm trying to have a conversation, not exchange lame schoolground insults which seem to be the norm. >

I'm sorry...it seems you paraded around the lame schoolground insults first. Do as you say and not as you do, is that it? It's ironic that as you insult me, you warn me not to insult or berate you back. So lastly, you can :stfu: on that issue, plz.

Before you hit that "post reply" button, do a little :thinking:

[Weedmage Princess]

Wow. You're so way off base, it's pathetic.

Do you even recall Clinton going into the Sudan-in 1998?? How did he DO NOTHING..when he went after AL QAEDA and their LEADER where they were hiding out??? Let's see...1995 is BEFORE 1998. 1998 comes AFTER 1995. That would mean..hmm..he had our forces locate these people and find out where they were (which WAS in the Sudan) and went in. OH..but he pussyfooted aroudn that. :lol:

Let's see you backpeddle out of this one.

You've chosen to not acknowledge that point, instead make an angry post where you "claim" you were insulted (is it insulting to ask that you post like a man instead of an angry twelve year old on the verge of taking your ball and going home? Apparently.) then flip flop more than a flounder fresh out of the ocean between "Clinton sat on information regarding terrorists and did nothing" then "Well he cut military spending and that's what I meant" back to "He sat on information and did nothing" ..AFTER it was pointed out to you. OH, did you know the Clinton Administration ALSO relayed ALL INFORMATION THEY HAD REGARDING SUCH THREATS TO THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION YET 9-11 STILL HAPPENED? So..by your logic, I guess you'll need to say the Bush Administration dropped the ball, too.

Secondly...don't put words in my mouth. I didn't insult you prior. If you took my post as reading "Hi I'm a friggin moron who failed my standardized aptitude tests because unless the pages have only three sentences in large font and big explanatory pictures to accompany those sentences, I have no clue what the fuck is going on." (that'd also explain your superb use of the smileys..yay you get a gold star..try not to shit your pants this time)...then, that's you recognizing what you feel are your own short comings. Is that where all your angst comes from? Interesting.

I started to dub you Xcalibur Jr. for obvious reasons but atleast he has an excuse, English as a second or third language. Now run along to your local elementary school and ask someone to help you out with more insults. I'm no long expecting to read anything of interest related to the current debate from you as...I don't think they have flash cards for politics. But hey, we have a whole bunch of smileys! Knock yourself out, Xcalibur Jr..

[Delirium]

Link (http://www.infowars.com/saved%20pages/Prior_Knowledge/Clinton_let_bin_laden.htm)


PS I think Weedmage contributes a lot even if i agree with Blazing247 here :)


[Edited on 6-21-2004 by Delirium]

[Blazing247]

I"m sorry, were you trying to make a point amidst that temper tantrum? When you are done venting, let me know and we can continue this debate.

:kiss: