Wikileaks leaker to face Court Martial

[~Rocktar~]

Yep, the soldier accused of leaking the massive amount of info to Wikileaks is going to face a general court martial. The charges he faces include aiding the enemy which is a capitol offense that can lead to the death penalty. Guess what folks, leaking national security info is srys bizness and this mutton head is going to go to Fort Leavenworth for a long long time at the very least.


http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/02/bradley-manning-will-face-a-court-martial/

[Bobmuhthol]

Hopefully he has better luck than Eddie Slovik.

[Gelston]

They aren't going to execute him. He'll spend a nice amount of time hanging out behind bars though.

[~Rocktar~]

Hopefully he has better luck than Eddie Slovik.

Slovik got the short end of the stick that's true, Manning flat out committed treason or the military term "Aiding the enemy."

[Back]

A court marshall seems appropriate. Life in jail, or the death penalty however, does not when you consider the sergeant behind the Haditha slaughter got off without jail time.

[Gelston]

A court marshall seems appropriate. Life in jail, or the death penalty however, does not when you consider the sergeant behind the Haditha slaughter got off without jail time.

That is because the Sergeant was not found guilty of manslaughter. The prosecution screwed the pooch on that one.

[Back]

Women, children, and elderly shot at close range. Not quite the same as using a usb memory drive.

[4a6c1]

My self-righteous, patriot mind is telling me he should be shot but in my heart I know he's a revolutionary. Oh well.

[Androidpk]

Women, children, and elderly shot at close range. Not quite the same as using a usb memory drive.

That's called war.

[Kuyuk]

That's called war.

Eh, I disagree.

But I'm a hippy bitch.

[Androidpk]

What exactly is there to disagree about?

[Gelston]

Women, children, and elderly shot at close range. Not quite the same as using a usb memory drive.

And we still have laws in the United States that lets people go if the prosecution is utterly incompetent. Either way, you weren't there, so yeah. Thanks.

[Nieninque]

What exactly is there to disagree about?

That whole "war" v "murder" thing.

[Androidpk]

That whole "war" v "murder" thing.

Murder is a part of war.

[Nieninque]

Not an acceptable part.

[Warriorbird]

Eh. There's an issue of scope. If they'd just leaked the actual killing, I'd be all in favor of these fellows. They didn't.

[Androidpk]

Not an acceptable part.

What are you smoking? The whole purpose of war is to KILL your enemies. War is brutal. I'm not saying what happened in Haditha was acceptable, but when you put people in those situations you can't exactly fault them for what happened.

[Warriorbird]

What are you smoking? The whole purpose of war is to KILL your enemies. War is brutal. I'm not saying what happened in Haditha was acceptable, but when you put people in those situations you can't exactly fault them for what happened.

I don't think you can write off everything (My Lai et al) in the name of "war is tough." The point where these guys left the reservation for me at least is that they went way far beyond just highlighting those incidents.

[Bobmuhthol]

What are you smoking? The whole purpose of war is to KILL your enemies. War is brutal. I'm not saying what happened in Haditha was acceptable, but when you put people in those situations you can't exactly fault them for what happened.

Please go back to France circa Dark Ages.

[Androidpk]

Please go back to France circa Dark Ages.

I would if I could.

[Androidpk]

I don't think you can write off everything (My Lai et al) in the name of "war is tough." The point where these guys left the reservation for me at least is that they went way far beyond just highlighting those incidents.

How do you determine what is acceptable and what is not acceptable in war? Civilians have been getting killed in wars since who knows when. And there are much worse examples, especially WW2. Dresden, Nagasaki, Hiroshima.

[Warriorbird]

How do you determine what is acceptable and what is not acceptable in war? Civilians have been getting killed in wars since who knows when. And there are much worse examples, especially WW2. Dresden, Nagasaki, Hiroshima.

I think My Lai still fits in the direct "Murder." level.

Are you going to suggest next we have no rules of engagement?

[Latrinsorm]

How do you determine what is acceptable and what is not acceptable in war? Civilians have been getting killed in wars since who knows when. And there are much worse examples, especially WW2. Dresden, Nagasaki, Hiroshima.If you have to say "there are much worse examples" to defend it, it's probably not acceptable.

[Androidpk]

Are you going to suggest next we have no rules of engagement?

No.

[Androidpk]

If you have to say "there are much worse examples" to defend it, it's probably not acceptable.

These sort of lines tend to get incredibly blurry in a war zone.

[Warriorbird]

No.

And note by these guys I meant Bradley Manning/Assange, who I'd have supported if they'd just illustrated the journalist shooting incident.

I think the urinating on corpses fellows should just have whatever punishment is appropriate for handing the enemy recruitment material.

[Sam]

Fuck this guy. He's made doing my job a huge pain in the ass.

[Kuyuk]

These sort of lines tend to get incredibly blurry in a war zone.

Next time we should just get them all in a train, and ship them all somewhere, and them kill them all at once.

It's acceptable, it's war after all.

[4a6c1]

EVEN BETTER, put them in big scary island prisons and entertain the troops by building human pyramids out of them.

[Androidpk]

Next time we should just get them all in a train, and ship them all somewhere, and them kill them all at once.

It's acceptable, it's war after all.

There is a big difference between a premeditated, carefully orchestrated genocide and what happened in Haditha.

[Androidpk]

EVEN BETTER, put them in big scary island prisons and entertain the troops by building human pyramids out of them.

Alcatraz was shut down years ago man!

[Back]

There is a big difference between a premeditated, carefully orchestrated genocide and what happened in Haditha.

So its obvious you do not think the sergeant in charge of what happened in Haditha requires any jail time or meaningful punishment beyond court marshall.

Do you think Bradly Manning does?

[Androidpk]

So its obvious you do not think the sergeant in charge of what happened in Haditha requires any jail time or meaningful punishment beyond court marshall.

Do you think Bradly Manning does?

I'm ok with his outcome. As for Manning, he deliberately leaked information from SIPRNet, you don't do that for any reason. I don't wish the death penalty on him but I do think he should spend a very long time at Fort Leavenworth.

[Back]

I'm ok with his outcome. As for Manning, he deliberately leaked information from SIPRNet, you don't do that for any reason. I don't wish the death penalty on him but I do think he should spend a very long time at Fort Leavenworth.

So you think someone who actually ordered and accomplished the killing of people, innocents included, should get a lesser sentence than someone who never set foot on the actual battlefield.

[Androidpk]

So you think someone who actually ordered and accomplished the killing of people, innocents included, should get a lesser sentence than someone who never set foot on the actual battlefield.

Dude, they are completely different cases, and iirc Manning was in Kuwait when he leaked the classified information, Kuwait is a designated combat zone.

[Back]

Dude, they are completely different cases, and iirc Manning was in Kuwait when he leaked the classified information, Kuwait is a designated combat zone.

So your answer is "no". Thats all I was asking.

[Androidpk]

So your answer is "no". Thats all I was asking.

My answer is I'm not going to give a yes or no answer to that question. I don't know the extent of the damage done by Manning's leaks. What about all the names of the informants that were given out in various reports? Who knows how many of them have been hunted down and killed? It is quite possible that Manning's actions have caused more deaths than the case with Haditha.

[Tgo01]

Not quite the same as using a usb memory drive.

That's like saying the guy responsible for Haditha shouldn't face any jail time because all he did was fire a gun. A gun that shoots bubbles no less.

[Back]

My answer is I'm not going to give a yes or no answer to that question. I don't know the extent of the damage done by Manning's leaks. What about all the names of the informants that were given out in various reports? Who knows how many of them have been hunted down and killed? It is quite possible that Manning's actions have caused more deaths than the case with Haditha.

You've been outspoken in defense of the sergeant involved in the Haditha incident in which there are documented deaths of women, children, and elderly. You have made your opinion known about the "possible" outcome of the leaks.

[Androidpk]

Under the circumstances of what was going on that day I would say that those marines followed the rules of engagement in houses that they believed to be housing insurgents that had been and were attacking them.

[Ceyrin]

http://warren-whitfield-blog.org.za/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/giveadamn1.gif

[Gelston]

So you think someone who actually ordered and accomplished the killing of people, innocents included, should get a lesser sentence than someone who never set foot on the actual battlefield.

Yes, the Rosenburgs. And there is no telling how many people Manning caused to get killed due to his leaks.

(ps, it is court martial.)

[Stanley Burrell]

Some guy told me about how some guy, or something, during the Cold War, pulled some kind of prank on his supervisors or whatever using laxatives or some other things, like balloons maybe. I'm not trying to be vague, I just don't remember the story very well and this post is God-awful.

But like, anyway, it was Area 51 intrusion rules and the dude, from what I remember a Brig. Gen telling me, was martialed to life.

Look, if anyone can actually remember that story for me, a lot better, that'd be great. I wasn't paying very good attention at the time. And if you actually read this, God bless you.

[Drunken Durfin]

Under the circumstances of what was going on that day I would say that those marines followed the rules of engagement in houses that they believed to be housing insurgents that had been and were attacking them.

Quoted so people would read it twice.

Until you are in a combat situation where you are being fired upon and people you know and love are becoming piles of hamburger to your left and right you have absolutely no frame of reference.

Mr. USB drive was sitting in an air conditioned office and had plenty of time to mull over his decision. The Marines in Haditha did not have that luxury. They had milliseconds and each breath could have been their last.

[kookiegod]

Quoted so people would read it twice.

Until you are in a combat situation where you are being fired upon and people you know and love are becoming piles of hamburger to your left and right you have absolutely no frame of reference.

Mr. USB drive was sitting in an air conditioned office and had plenty of time to mull over his decision. The Marines in Haditha did not have that luxury. They had milliseconds and each breath could have been their last.

QFT.

If you ever ever think what those folks are doing is anything less than amazing, pick up a rifle and stand a post.

HHC 1-104 Combat Infantry.

[Cat]

There's a big difference between war and war crimes.

[Atlanteax]

I can only imagine the hippy peace-only no-violence people would be among the first to die if there was ever a breakdown in society (ie anarchy).

Rather ironic that ... from the luxury of living in a cocoon, hipsters wail about "murder" being done by soliders, who predominantly only do so in the interest of self-preservence of themselves and comrades, in a hostile environment, performing an ugly "peace-keeping" duty that they would rather not be doing in the first place.

(Granted that those in the services are voluntarily enlisted, generally it is a personal sacrifice for the opportunity to better themselves & their families ... ie college education / etc ... for thousands of years the military has been an avenue of social mobility upwards in improving standard of living)

[sst]

How do you determine what is acceptable and what is not acceptable in war? Civilians have been getting killed in wars since who knows when. And there are much worse examples, especially WW2. Dresden, Nagasaki, Hiroshima.

We follow the "Law of Land Warfare" that's how we determine what is and is not acceptable. The Army has it in Field Manual 27-10.

There are also laws of air and naval warfare too.

[Back]

I can only imagine the hippy peace-only no-violence people would be among the first to die if there was ever a breakdown in society (ie anarchy).

Rather ironic that ... from the luxury of living in a cocoon, hipsters wail about "murder" being done by soliders, who predominantly only do so in the interest of self-preservence of themselves and comrades, in a hostile environment, performing an ugly "peace-keeping" duty that they would rather not be doing in the first place.

(Granted that those in the services are voluntarily enlisted, generally it is a personal sacrifice for the opportunity to better themselves & their families ... ie college education / etc ... for thousands of years the military has been an avenue of social mobility upwards in improving standard of living)

You are the only person in this thread who is questioning other people's character.

My main debate was questioning the difference in punishment of the two soldiers.

[sst]

Under the circumstances of what was going on that day I would say that those marines followed the rules of engagement in houses that they believed to be housing insurgents that had been and were attacking them.

The marines did not follow the rules of engagement. You're talking out of your ass.

They murdered innocent people. They deserve the harshest punishment's the military can throw at them in my opinion.

The sergeant in question, however, did not kill anyone. On the other hand he was a poor leader and let his subordinates do unforgivable things, and is being punished accordingly.

[Androidpk]

The marines did not follow the rules of engagement. You're talking out of your ass.


You know they didn't for a fact? Please show me this evidence, since you claim I am talking out of my ass.

[Latrinsorm]

I can only imagine the hippy peace-only no-violence people would be among the first to die if there was ever a breakdown in society (ie anarchy).

Rather ironic that ... from the luxury of living in a cocoon, hipsters wail about "murder" being done by soliders, who predominantly only do so in the interest of self-preservence of themselves and comrades, in a hostile environment, performing an ugly "peace-keeping" duty that they would rather not be doing in the first place.

(Granted that those in the services are voluntarily enlisted, generally it is a personal sacrifice for the opportunity to better themselves & their families ... ie college education / etc ... for thousands of years the military has been an avenue of social mobility upwards in improving standard of living)So is sst a hipster or a hippy?

[Stanley Burrell]

So is sst a hipster or a hippy?

He's Dave.

[Gelston]

Were the Marines in Haditha wrong? None of us were there, we cannot answer that. The facts are that civilians were killed. Were they perhaps in a mindset as such that they were extremely pissed off and not thinking straight? Probably. Do they have to live with that for the rest of their life? Yes. From the picture painted, they had a lot of emotions running through them. Especially after seeing their friend blown into pieces. Is this a new concept in warfare? No. Will it happen again? Yes.

Look at the guy that gave secrets. Was he wrong? Yes. Did he endanger and possibly cause the ending of lives? Most assuredly. Was he suffering emotionally, having to make split second decisions? No. Is this a new concept in warfare? No. Will it happen again? Yes.

Comparing what some little shit did in an air conditioned trailer to Marines in a hostile city, who just witnessed a good friend and fellow Marine being blown to kingdom-come is pretty retarded. Different situations. Different motives.

[Cat]

I can only imagine the hippy peace-only no-violence people would be among the first to die if there was ever a breakdown in society (ie anarchy).

Rather ironic that ... from the luxury of living in a cocoon, hipsters wail about "murder" being done by soliders, who predominantly only do so in the interest of self-preservence of themselves and comrades, in a hostile environment, performing an ugly "peace-keeping" duty that they would rather not be doing in the first place.

(Granted that those in the services are voluntarily enlisted, generally it is a personal sacrifice for the opportunity to better themselves & their families ... ie college education / etc ... for thousands of years the military has been an avenue of social mobility upwards in improving standard of living)


I consider myself anti-war and I am very well prepared for when SHTF. There is no way I will be the first the go.

[Stanley Burrell]

There are history lessons about people, throughout their lifespans, engaging in the highest tier of non-violence. In one particular instance during the early 20th century, people of supposed severe non-violence, with tremendous spiritual and cultural fortification were drafted.

They were unadulterated berserkers on the battlefield, the likes of which had never been seen before. The only thing that changed about them were their surroundings and weapon capability.

They returned home and continued, never having strayed, to go about life with the same set of teachings they had always abided by.

[4a6c1]

The End.

[Paradii]

Has anyone posted/read this yet?

http://joyb.blogspot.com/2012/02/bradley-manning-nobel-peace-prize.html

I am keeping my opinion on this matter to myself, btw.

[4a6c1]

Interesting.

"We have the great honor of nominating Private First Class Bradley Manning for the 2012 Nobel Peace Prize. Manning is a soldier in the United States army who stands accused of releasing hundreds of thousands of documents to the whistleblower website WikiLeaks. The leaked documents pointed to a long history of corruption, war crimes, and imperialism by the United States government in international dealings. These revelations have fueled democratic uprising around the world, including a democratic revolution in Tunisia. According to journalists, his alleged actions helped motivate the democratic Arab Spring movements, shed light on secret corporate influence on our foreign policies, and most recently contributed to the Obama Administration agreeing to withdraw all U.S.troops from the occupation in Iraq. "

From that website

[Tgo01]

Has anyone posted/read this yet?

http://joyb.blogspot.com/2012/02/bradley-manning-nobel-peace-prize.html

I am keeping my opinion on this matter to myself, btw.


We have the great honor of nominating Private First Class Bradley Manning for the 2012 Nobel Peace Prize. Manning is a soldier in the United States army who stands accused of releasing hundreds of thousands of documents to the whistleblower website WikiLeaks. The leaked documents pointed to a long history of corruption, war crimes, and imperialism by the United States government in international dealings. These revelations have fueled democratic uprising around the world, including a democratic revolution in Tunisia. According to journalists, his alleged actions helped motivate the democratic Arab Spring movements, shed light on secret corporate influence on our foreign policies, and most recently contributed to the Obama Administration agreeing to withdraw all U.S.troops from the occupation in Iraq.

Is this a joke? Are they just totally making this shit up or what? I have NEVER heard of him being credited with the Arab Spring movements. And his actions contributed to US troops being withdrawn from Iraq?

If he does win the Nobel peace prize I think that coupled with Obama's prize is all the proof needed that the entire thing is nothing more than a joke now.

[4a6c1]

Another interesting perspective from the same website.

"He did what Nelson Mandela did in 1962. Hopefully Bradley will not have to wait 27 years to be freed."

[Gelston]

Can anyone nominate anyone for anything? There are always weird people everywhere. That blog makes me think of a shitty hipster bar bathroom.

[Paradii]

Is this a joke? Are they just totally making this shit up or what? I have NEVER heard of him being credited with the Arab Spring movements. And his actions contributed to US troops being withdrawn from Iraq?

If he does win the Nobel peace prize I think that coupled with Obama's prize is all the proof needed that the entire thing is nothing more than a joke now.

Well, just because you haven't heard of something is not exactly a qualifier for something to be true or not.

But no, I didn't look into this to see if they were trolling or not.

[Paradii]

Can anyone nominate anyone for anything? There are always weird everywhere. That blog makes me think of a shitty hipster bar bathroom.

http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/nomination/nominators.html

[Tgo01]

Well, just because you haven't heard of something is not exactly a qualifier for something to be true or not.

True. However I have read a lot about the Arab spring movement and I would imagine if Manning had anything at all to do with it it would have been mentioned somewhere along the lines.

We're talking about someone supposedly having a role in something as large as the Arab Spring movement, not someone having a role in getting 10 people to picket in front of the local McDonald's because they don't use enough salt on their fries.

[Rinualdo]

What's the world coming to when you can't take an Icelandic blog at face value?

[Warriorbird]

True. However I have read a lot about the Arab spring movement and I would imagine if Manning had anything at all to do with it it would have been mentioned somewhere along the lines.

We're talking about someone supposedly having a role in something as large as the Arab Spring movement, not someone having a role in getting 10 people to picket in front of the local McDonald's because they don't use enough salt on their fries.

The leaks changed the climate. I'm not sure "Bradley Manning" could really even be said to matter at all. The structure existed for anyone.

[Gelston]

If they truly are the party they claim they are in the blog, they hold three seats and can nominate. Craaaaaaazy

[Paradii]

True. However I have read a lot about the Arab spring movement and I would imagine if Manning had anything at all to do with it it would have been mentioned somewhere along the lines.

We're talking about someone supposedly having a role in something as large as the Arab Spring movement, not someone having a role in getting 10 people to picket in front of the local McDonald's because they don't use enough salt on their fries.


It all depends on your definition of involvement, I assume. It's not too far-fetched to believe that dissidents under various oppressive regimes would garner some sort of emotional or even have a behavioral response after seeing an American soldier risk death, jail, whatever, for "exposing" his government to be making poor decisions at best, committing various crimes at worst.

That being said, I feel that this organization took a few liberties with the facts in this case.

[4a6c1]

I guess that website is just a reminder that not everyone in the world agreed with our war in Iraq. The majority of Americans can honestly say "I support our troops" because our troops are comprised of citizens like ourselves, family members etc. But for the rest of the world, they are just occupiers, and for what they must wonder? What a sobering thought.

[Androidpk]

Another interesting perspective from the same website.

"He did what Nelson Mandela did in 1962. Hopefully Bradley will not have to wait 27 years to be freed."

Nelson Mandela is a civilian.

[Tgo01]

I guess that website is just a reminder that not everyone in the world agreed with our war in Iraq. The majority of Americans can honestly say "I support our troops" because our troops are comprised of citizens like ourselves, family members etc. But for the rest of the world, they are just occupiers, and for what they must wonder? What a sobering thought.

What are you talking about? The whole world loves us.

[Parkbandit]

What are you talking about? The whole world loves us.

NOW they do, because of Obama.. but under the evil Bush years, they hated us.

DUR

[Tgo01]

NOW they do, because of Obama.. but under the evil Bush years, they hated us.

DUR

Oh yeah. I hear so often how everything is still Bush's fault I almost forget he is no longer president.

[Back]

NOW they do, because of Obama.. but under the evil Bush years, they hated us.

DUR

Twice in the space of two weeks that I agree with one of your posts. It is 2012 after all.

[Parkbandit]

Twice in the space of two weeks that I agree with one of your posts. It is 2012 after all.

It has less to do with 2012 and more to do with me posting something completely ridiculous that only a really stupid person would agree with it.

[sst]

You know they didn't for a fact? Please show me this evidence, since you claim I am talking out of my ass.

The rules of engagement for any conflict in the last decade has never included killing of civilians period. There is no excuse for it no matter what happened to your friends earlier in the day, yesterday or 3 years ago. That is the only proof that is needed.

Accidents happen, innocent people die. What the marines did was no accident, it was murder.

[sst]

Were the Marines in Haditha wrong? None of us were there, we cannot answer that. The facts are that civilians were killed. Were they perhaps in a mindset as such that they were extremely pissed off and not thinking straight? Probably. Do they have to live with that for the rest of their life? Yes. From the picture painted, they had a lot of emotions running through them. Especially after seeing their friend blown into pieces. Is this a new concept in warfare? No. Will it happen again? Yes.



Gelston, you damn well know they were wrong, and yes, we can answer that. They killed civilians indiscriminately and no matter what branch you're in that has never been acceptable in Iraq or Afghanistan.

What would you have done if it was your subordinates or another fireteam in your platoon that did it. Question their motives since you were not there?

My brigade lost 63 people in my first deployment, 22 came from my Battalion, not once did we go around killing civilians cause we were upset about Griff getting shot in the neck, or Long stepping on a command wire IED, or Gonzalez, Jairala, and Heinlein getting hit by an EFP. Not once did I think it would be a good idea to kill the little girl, or woman walking down the street after after getting hit by an IED.

There is no excuse for their actions. None.

[Androidpk]

And yet regardless of rules of engagement and loac civilian deaths still happen all the time. Especially when you are waging combat operations in a civilian occupied urban area. Obviously the officials in charge don't agree with your false accusation of murder.

[AnticorRifling]

The rules of engagement for any conflict in the last decade has never included killing of civilians period. There is no excuse for it no matter what happened to your friends earlier in the day, yesterday or 3 years ago. That is the only proof that is needed.

Accidents happen, innocent people die. What the marines did was no accident, it was murder.

You forgot words like "that I know of" or "that I have knowledge of".


Unless something has changed since I was in I'm going to bet you haven't had the clearance and/or the time to read every single set of defined rules of engagement for any(that's like all of them) conflict in the last decade (I did like how you qualified the whole decade thing given the atom bomb example earlier in the thread).

I wasn't there, I haven't seen the reports, even if they're available, so I really can't say if they were right or wrong. I can say that right or wrong innocent people died and that's brutal. Those Marines get to live with that for the rest of their lives, now if they are found to have been acting in a malicious and/or illegal manner I do expect severe punishment. If they were, in fact, following their lawful orders and reacted to a bad situation and the result was innocents being killed they get to live with it and that's a pretty wicked punishment in and of itself.

Please note Dave I didn't say I KNOW THEY DID or I KNOW THEY DIDN'T because I'm not going to present my opinions as facts, try it, it's fun.

[sst]

You forgot words like "that I know of" or "that I have knowledge of".


Unless something has changed since I was in I'm going to bet you haven't had the clearance and/or the time to read every single set of defined rules of engagement for any(that's like all of them) conflict in the last decade (I did like how you qualified the whole decade thing given the atom bomb example earlier in the thread).


Since you have never deployed let break down how ROE works for you. ROE is set by the Major combatant command, and in this case it is CENTCOM. While units fall under the ROE, much like branch specific military doctrine, you're allowed to add too, but not take away. There are not "secret" ROE's that just JSOC or other special people operate under, having been attached to JSOC i can say this with certainty.

[sst]

And yet regardless of rules of engagement and loac civilian deaths still happen all the time. Especially when you are waging combat operations in a civilian occupied urban area. Obviously the officials in charge don't agree with your false accusation of murder.

Accidents happen, civilians die. Executing women and children in their homes, how is that an accident?

[AnticorRifling]

Since you have never deployed let break down how ROE works for you. ROE is set by the Major combatant command, and in this case it is CENTCOM. While units fall under the ROE, much like branch specific military doctrine, you're allowed to add too, but not take away. There are not "secret" ROE's that just JSOC or other special people operate under, having been attached to JSOC i can say this with certainty.

I lol'd.

[sst]

I lol'd.

LoL all you want. I hate to break this to you but its how it works.

Or are you saying the U.S. has "super secret" ROE which goes against the Law of Armed Conflict?

[Androidpk]

Accidents happen, civilians die. Executing women and children in their homes, how is that an accident?

I wouldn't call it an accident, I would call it standard operating procedure on clearing a house with potential enemies inside it.

[Androidpk]

LoL all you want. I hate to break this to you but its how it works.

Or are you saying the U.S. has "super secret" ROE which goes against the Law of Armed Conflict?

I hate to break it to you but there are classified rules of engagement, especially in the specops community.

[AnticorRifling]

No but I'm saying the SROE has the ability to be augmented and has sections that can be interpreted to allow for some very nasty action.

I'm also saying that they could have been acting under and in keeping with the SROE, any augments, and under the Laws of War.

Were they? I don't know and I'm not going to say for fact that I know one way or the other (as you're doing which is retarded).

Now if they're found guilty after investigation, great you were right (although it's not really great is it people got murdered). If not well then you're wrong and people are still dead.

[Androidpk]

Investigation is already over Anticor-dude.

[sst]

I wouldn't call it an accident, I would call it standard operating procedure on clearing a house with potential enemies inside it.

... So you're telling me that its SOP to kill everyone in a house as you clear it, including women and children?

Damn, I didn't know. Man, I've been screwing that up for years. I've got to go tell the rest of the military this. We're supposed to kill everyone! This shit is really like call of duty!

[AnticorRifling]

See what I get for paying attention....

[Androidpk]

... So you're telling me that its SOP to kill everyone in a house as you clear it, including women and children?

Damn, I didn't know. Man, I've been screwing that up for years. I've got to go tell the rest of the military this. We're supposed to kill everyone! This shit is really like call of duty!

Shows what your know!

[AnticorRifling]

Aww Dave gets cranky when he's wrong.

[sst]

Aww Dave gets cranky when he's wrong.

please! I'm never wrong and you can't convince me otherwise.

[Androidpk]

None of them were convicted of murder/rape, wtf are you smoking.

[sst]

None of them were convicted of murder/rape, wtf are you smoking.

Mixed some info up with the shit that happened in mahmudiyah. Ignore my previous posts.

[AnticorRifling]

Ignore my previous posts.We always do. BAM!!!!! :)

[Gelston]

Gelston, you damn well know they were wrong, and yes, we can answer that. They killed civilians indiscriminately and no matter what branch you're in that has never been acceptable in Iraq or Afghanistan.

I'm sorry. According to the Military Courts the only person in the wrong was the Squad Leader. They outweigh your opinion, as an official court of the Military and United States Government.

[Parkbandit]

So, Manning gets a sentence of 35 years... I wonder if we're going to pay for this though:

WikiLeaks source Bradley Manning intends to begin hormone therapy for gender reassignment and live the rest of his life as a woman, according to a statement from him read on NBC's "Today" show Thursday.
Manning wants to be referred to as Chelsea -- not Bradley -- according to the statement.
Manning's announcement comes a day after a military judge sentenced him to 35 years in prison for leaking hundreds of thousands of U.S. military and diplomatic documents.
Manning, 25, was convicted in July of stealing 750,000 pages of classified documents and videos and disseminating them to WikiLeaks, the online anti-secrecy group. Lind also reduced his rank from private first class to private, ordered him to forfeit pay and benefits and be dishonorably discharged.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/22/us/bradley-manning/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

[Warriorbird]

It was a lower sentence than the prosecution requested by a fair bit. I think if Manning had just released the one video he might've gotten off pretty light. 750,000 documents is far different though.

[Gelston]

The most major of the charges was tossed out. He is still going to be locked up for a decade, minimum.

[4a6c1]

I wanted him to get life. He put collaborating Nato troops in danger without a second thought.

[Sile]

I wanted him to get life. He put collaborating Nato troops in danger without a second thought.

I loved how he blamed it on his transgender identity and working in a macho environment.
Correct me if I'm wrong. But the draft ended a long time ago.

[Sile]

Apparently his lawyer thinks he will be pardoned. I hope he I wrong. Right now he can be out in less then 10 years with good behaviour. (Only having to serve 1/3rd of his sentence and time served)

If he gets a pardon I think it discredits the whole military justice system.

[4a6c1]

As a woman who works in that same environment I've alwsys had sympathy for Mannings personal struggles. But, putting your fellow public servants in danger should be dealt with harshly everytime. No exceptions.

[AnticorRifling]

I wanted him to get life. He put collaborating Nato troops in danger without a second thought.

You spelled death wrong.

[Back]

Her name is Chelsea now.


WASHINGTON, Aug 22 (Reuters) - Bradley Manning, sentenced to 35 years in military prison for the biggest breach of classified U.S. documents in U.S. history, said in a statement on Thursday she is female and wants to live as a woman named Chelsea."As I transition into this next phase of my life, I want everyone to know the real me. I am Chelsea Manning, I am a female," Manning, 25, said in the statement read on NBC News' "Today" show.

"Given the way that I feel and have felt since childhood, I want to begin hormone therapy as soon as possible," Manning said. "I also request that starting today you refer to me by my new name and use the feminine pronoun."

Manning's lawyer David Coombs said on the program that he expected Manning to get a pardon from President Barack Obama.
Manning, a former junior intelligence analyst, was sentenced on Wednesday for turning over more than 700,000 classified files, battlefield videos and diplomatic cables to WikiLeaks in the biggest breach of secret data in the nation's history.

Manning is expected to serve the sentence at the U.S. Disciplinary Barracks at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas. Coombs has said the soldier could be pardoned in seven years. (Reporting by Susan Heavey and Ian Simpson; Editing by Scott Malone and Gerald E. McCormick)

[4a6c1]

You spelled death wrong.

Restraint, Sir Antipants. He could prove to be a good source for federal leaks for many years to come.

[Stanley Burrell]

I am trying to somehow make a comparison between the risk that modern telecommunications allowed for this to be (what I believe is) treasonous. And then rewinding the clock to Desert Storm, Vietnam, Korea ...... and drawing complete blanks at what sort of action + what sort of an individual would be needed to exist + blah-blah-blah other conditions, etc. in order to best mimic the current scenario. ?

[4a6c1]

http://i.imgur.com/lH5ExZq.gif

[Stanley Burrell]

http://i.imgur.com/lH5ExZq.gif

I'm deliberately trying to overcomplicate things. Treason is treason is treason, but I need to make my brain do cartwheels. Habit.

[4a6c1]

To answer your question, this happened a lot during the cold war.

[AnticorRifling]

Her name is Chelsea now.

His name is Chelsea. He's not a chick yet..and he shouldn't be until he gets out of prison.

[Some Rogue]

His name is Chelsea. He's not a chick yet..and he shouldn't be until he gets out of prison.

Yeah, but...in prison, the government gets to pay for your hormone therapy and all other medical. So he may actually be a she before it gets out.

[Suppressed Poet]

I say his punishment should be:

1) Stick him in room 101 and expose him to his greatest fear.

2) Force him to betray the person or thing he loves most to save his own ass.

3) After he is completely broken and submits all of his will, have him publicly apologize for betraying his country and conspiring against the party while complementing the mercy and love he received once captured.

4) Host a public triumph parade through the streets of Capitol Square with his broken body hoisted upon the top of an Escalade for the citizens to mock and throw cabbage at.

5) When he begs for death, have Obama stab him in the heart with a rapier in a public showing of triumphant power and 0 tollerance for treason.

[Taernath]

I am trying to somehow make a comparison between the risk that modern telecommunications allowed for this to be (what I believe is) treasonous. And then rewinding the clock to Desert Storm, Vietnam, Korea ...... and drawing complete blanks at what sort of action + what sort of an individual would be needed to exist + blah-blah-blah other conditions, etc. in order to best mimic the current scenario. ?

You mean like if Benedict Arnold had a twitter and facebook account?

@BtotheArnold
"Let me die in this old uniform in which I fought my battles. May God forgive me for ever having put on another. #YOLO #Fuck1776"

[4a6c1]

Hah. Okay I'll play.

@M8Hari
"<333 allies AND mein fuhrer. y not choose peace!!!!??" #kittensandpuppies #peacenotwar