A great complaint

[Leeker]

http://tehir.net/index.php?/site/comments/an_update_from_former_gm_khshathra/

Enjoy.

[thefarmer]

Pasted the article from the link




An Update from former GM Khshathra


Hello, everyone. Look! New update!

So, it’s been well over a month since I was booted off staff, and I felt I owed players, especially my dark elf players and those involved with my Tehir Warband NPCs, some sort of explanation, since it was never my intention to leave you high and dry. I had literally years worth of plans - documentation, and storylines, along with all the incidental things (merchants, shops, NPCs, etc.) connected to those - worked out for you.

I had docs written and outlined that expanded the game’s cultures and mythology, that dramatically expanded the depth and scope of the setting. I had storylines planned that focused largely around player interaction, that involved politics and intrigue instead of a series of invasions that culminated in a pre-scripted boss fight.

So why am I no longer a GM (or even a player) then? Well, here’s a little story that might explain that. May want to grab a coffee or something first, though, ‘cause this is a long one.

By the end of last year, I’d been having some serious real life problems, problems that had been present earlier in the year to some extent, but that had compounded around EG. I don’t intend to go into detail, but the issues were pretty serious. As of today, they’re in the past, but they were pretty stressful and more than a little depressing at the time.

By the end of December, the time and energy required to deal with these problems led to a casual questioning of my -ability- to perform some of my GM duties, but at no point did I ever stop performing any of them.

But that questioning, directed to Sirina and my team leader, was the last mistake I made as a GM.

Let me stress the fact that I spent the week of Christmas dealing with a death, and I still managed to put aside time to do QC work and log my NPCs in to help with Kenstrom’s Landing storyline. However, I wasn’t sure if I’d be able to sustain my QCing efforts through the holidays.

So imagine my surprise when I came home one night to discover that my contract with Simutronics had been terminated out of the blue.

I was -told- by Sirina that, due to the aforementioned questioning, I clearly intended to stop performing my GM duties and was informed that I was no longer needed.

I figured, hey, I’ve been pretty down lately. This is probably just a misunderstanding, what with me not actually having done anything wrong, or having violated any policies whatsoever. Plus, you know, there was the whole thing with me having busted my ass for two years to improve the game experience for players, consistently going well beyond all my minimum requirements as a GM. So I initially attempted to talk things through, and appeal to some basic reason and decency. Certainly no human being is so loathsome that they’d think, “Hey, this guy seems pretty depressed over a death, so he clearly isn’t a team player. Perfect time to get rid of him!”

Well, it had been a tremendously bad week for me, so clearly I had forgotten for the moment who I was dealing with.

After attempting to discuss things, and explaining that I had never disliked working QC or had any intention to stop doing it, Sirina then confronted me with a list of accusations that she had suddenly “discovered”, each of which was a complete fabrication. Literally every one of these new justifications for firing me, that for some strange reason hadn’t been mentioned at all before then, was an outright lie. They ran the gamut of accusing me of not having performing my required event duties, to being told that I had been avoiding answering assists and referrals while on duty for a year and a half(!), to being told that I actually hated GMing.

The accusations were ridiculous on their face, as any GM who worked with me or player who’d interacted with me could have easily confirmed, but the truth didn’t matter.

Since obviously -I- wasn’t supposed to believe the lies being told about me, it was clear that the ex-post-facto justification of my termination was for the benefit of the product manager, a fig leaf used to pretend that this was somehow a legitimate, professional decision that was in the game’s best interest, as opposed to a decision made purely out of personal spite.

Competent senior management would have questioned why, if someone truly believed that I hadn’t been performing my minimum GM duties for 1-2 years, I hadn’t been approached about such dereliction long ago, and why it had been allowed to continue. Nobody in their right mind would allow an employee to not do their job for a year+ if they honestly thought that’s what was going on.

“Competent” is the key word there, though.

In any case, since appeals to decency and the truth went nowhere, you folks get this letter instead. I would have typed it up the week I was fired if I hadn’t cared enough about the players to let things cool down for a while, and try getting back on staff again. Obviously, that failed.

Caring about the players was the only reason I became a GM to begin with, and why I put up with this company at all after discovering how poorly it was run during my first 6 months as a GM. I sure as hell didn’t GM for the massive pay and the major prestige associated with being a GemStone employee, and I sure as hell wasn’t bucking for overtime with all the extra work I’d been doing. It’s not like it’s a springboard to work in the real game industry either - EA and Activision aren’t exactly chomping at the bit to recruit GemStone GMs.

There are a lot of problems with GS, but rather than write up an elaborate analysis of every problem with the game (we haven’t developed life-extension technology yet, so nobody has time for that), I’ll cut right to the heart of the biggest problem.

The rot in GS begins with the APM, and the vast majority of the problems with the game could be solved if it simply had a competent manager in that position.

The simple truth of the matter is that, as things stand, the only thing relevant to what you can do as a GM - project approvals, documentation releases, promotions, etc. - is determined solely by one’s willingness to surgically attach one’s mouth to Sirina’s ass.

Now, admittedly, having the APM fashion her management style after the Human Centipede is a bold move, but it’s not one you’ll find endorsed in many business schools.

GS somehow manages to be more cliquish and juvenile than even high-school, where acting like OMG BFFS LOL and obsequiously sucking up is more important than simply doing your job. Petty whim and sycophancy are the key elements involved in making managerial decisions, as opposed to a desire to make the game as good as possible for the players.

This is an environment wherein GMs who have problems with each other regularly “snitch” on other GMs behind their back to the APM in order to curry favor with her, without ever approaching the actual GM they have problems with. In many cases, the “offense” they snitch about isn’t even real. This is the kind of employee culture Sirina doesn’t just allow, she encourages.

Why, one might ask, is the APM allowed to get away with this?

Solomon seems like a decent enough guy, but he really has no idea what’s going on in GS, on the very rare occasion he’s actually paying attention to it. All he knows is what he hears from Sirina, and she has absolutely no qualms about painting inaccurate pictures and outright lying to him, which she does with regularity. It’s how she gets away with everything she does at the game’s expense. If Solomon actually knew the truth about how she operated, I’m almost certain she’d be gone, but he just blindly listens to her, rubber stamps her decisions, and then wanders off back to Dragonrealms or whatever the hell else he does.

Essentially, on the rare occasion the PM pops his head into GS, he only communicates with the APM, accepts whatever she tells him as gospel, and then disappears again.

I’m not sure if he’s easily fooled, or just doesn’t want to know what’s going on in GS, but either way it’s a shame.

Because of this lack of genuine oversight, and the lack of ability for the decent GMs to anonymously whistleblow, the APM is allowed to treat GemStone as her private fiefdom where anyone, no matter how hard working or talented, is inevitably scoured from staff if they don’t relentlessly brownnose or pretend to be cowed by her in every interaction.

And that was my problem - caring about the players and putting them first, rather than getting involved in ass-kissing and staff politics, which are games I have never played, and will never play.

With relatively decent companies, as long as you do a damn good job, it’s possible to largely avoid politics, but that doesn’t fly in GS, because Sirina’s bloated ego demands constant worship. After two years of me spending all my staff time working for the players instead of sucking up, she finally got rid of me.

But don’t check out yet, folks. It gets better. The following was part of the pack of lies she spewed after terminating my contract (and, thus, isn’t restricted by my NDA):

Sirina: “We don’t have a position for a GM who only does the “fun” stuff - aka storylines and documents.”

Ignoring the fact that I never did “just” storylines and documents, there are two serious problems with this statement.

1) You really have to be a monstrous idiot to believe that quality world-building and storylines have nothing to do with running a successful RPG. This is someone whose job is supposed to be managing an RPG, but apparently has never bothered to learn the first damn thing about them. Suckering players into paying extra for Droughtman games isn’t going to carry GemStone forever, and it certainly won’t lure in new players like a well-written and compelling setting that inspires engaging storylines would.

2) Storylines and document writing are just “fun stuff”! It doesn’t take any work whatsoever to be creative! Who knew! This is precisely the sort of ignorant garbage regularly vomited by people without a single ounce of creativity in their body. “I can’t do it, and can’t understand it, so it’s not real work.” Not surprising, given the source, but still. This is a person that, at best, should be assistant manager of the janitorial staff at a Walmart, not a roleplaying game.

And here’s another thing which probably won’t surprise most players, especially if they’ve attended merchant events, but which I can absolutely confirm: Every major policy in the game, from alteration standards to customer service, and their enforcement are dependent solely on APM fiat, rather than any kind of standard that anyone is actually capable of following, or a metric that can be measured. There is no consistency and no logic behind any of it, at all, because Sirina isn’t willing or able to actually research anything she makes decisions on, even if that “research” is as simple as typing “www.dictionary.com” into her browser.

When the GMs on the official forums tell you otherwise, they are lying to your face or simply deflecting in order to make complaining customers shut up. I never participated in the “Discussion” forums as a GM because I refused to lie to players, and sadly that’s part of the “game” you’re forced to play if you want to earn brownie points with the APM, and not be subject to being randomly terminated. This goes along with never disagreeing with or correcting the APM about anything - even if she is objectively, verifiably wrong about something. Anyone who does so is ejected from staff as well, eventually if not on the spot.

And don’t think that GMs don’t pay attention to which players are earning brownie points for kissing up on the forums, both official and unofficial, and which are on the “shit list” for criticising anything in the game. The APM’s attitude doesn’t just trickle down to staff-on-staff interactions.

Now, perhaps relying on APM fiat to decide every single aspect of the game wouldn’t be so bad, if this was an intelligent, creative person with a strong, focused vision for the game, but unfortunately, this is not the case. There are many good GMs on staff, but the APM is not one of them. Literally the least qualified and intelligent person on staff makes everything up as she goes along, consistency or benefit to the game be damned.

I wrote three major documents for the game, that in over a year and a half, Sirina, after deciding she should be solely responsible for documentation, refused to publish. Her excuse changed every time I contacted her (roughly every two-three months), until she finally admitted in November 2011 that she had never even bothered emailing the finished docs to the SGMs for approval, a process that takes a minute, tops, but that apparently couldn’t be done in well over a year.

I have absolutely no doubt that my requests for updates on the status of my documentation, as well as my storyline proposals, contributed to her taking the first opportunity to get rid of me, since it was obvious that, in my last correspondence with her before my surprise termination, she had run out of every last plausible explanation for why she simply couldn’t send an email to the SGMs. It was also quite clear from her tone that she was offended by the very notion of someone daring to ask her for updates and approvals for the things needed to do their job properly.

I have produced final drafts for books that were in print and on store shelves a month after I delivered them, whereas GemStone is incapable of releasing 10-page documents on the internet in any timeframe shorter than years? Sure.

Even though game design/world-building isn’t my primary career, I am damn good at it, and most people who are good at this stuff don’t donate their time to niche games they feel sorry for. I was even willing to utilize my design and illustration skills to enhance my volunteer work - and nobody should kid themselves that GMing isn’t volunteer work. I make a living as a freelancer, and based on what I normally charge per hour, and the amount of hours I spent on GM duties and projects every month, I lost money every time I spent time working on anything GS-related.

The fact that management can’t recognize what I brought to the game and why it might have been important speaks volumes about the basic competence of the people running the product (into the ground), and demonstrates why the game totally squandered the chance it had to take advantage of my presence on staff for two years running. Employees shouldn’t have to actively fight against management to make a product -good-, and management, ideally, shouldn’t be bone-shatteringly stupid.

There are many good GMs still on staff whose efforts are doomed to be wasted due to the worst management possible, management with no knowledge of computer or RPG game design or the larger industry, and who, on the rare occasion they can even recognize it, are -actively opposed- to quality game writing and mechanics.

I take some consolation from knowing that I’m not even close to the only one on staff who feels this way about the game and its management - I’m just the only one free to say it out loud now, instead of behind management’s back after every group email and utterly worthless staff meeting, where nothing of value is ever discussed. Every single staff meeting was just another opportunity for the APM to “hold court” and receive her expected tithe of sycophancy (since GMs are not allowed to actually meaningfully discuss or debate any plans or policies).

And I guarantee you that there’s a lot of folks still on staff who could verify this, if given some sort of opportunity to speak up without fear of retribution.

So, congrats to the APM, I guess, on turning someone who’d been excited about playing and writing for the game for almost 10 years, 2 of them on staff, into someone who never wants to see or hear about the game ever again.

My dark elf players were awesome, and I’ll miss you guys. Being guru was a blast, mainly because of you, until I realized that I would never be -allowed- to do anything for you. My docs may eventually get published - who knows - but I have no idea what modifications will be made to them, and by who, and I guarantee that nobody left on staff will be able to execute the extensive plans I had for them, since this first round of documentation was just the initial groundwork for the years of projects I had planned.

At least now you know why you never saw the results of any of my guru work, and why literally everything you requested during my townhalls was denied. It sure wasn’t because I didn’t bust my ass for you. I tried, folks, I really did, but despite the efforts of a few dedicated GMs, the staff culture encouraged by management simply doesn’t care about quality work, or the overall experience of the players.

And folks, GS is far, far, worse than I’ve even mentioned here. It really isn’t worth your time or your money. The APM cultivates a staff attitude towards players than can be charitably described as “sneering derision.” It will never get better while Sirina is in charge, because that’s the attitude the APM has, and encourages, and she pays attention to which GMs play along. I was frankly disgusted at the opinions regarding the players regularly and casually tossed around by many GMs, as if being hired by Simutronics made them part of some elite club that made them better than paying customers. Even if a number of them only acted that way to curry favor with the APM, it still didn’t excuse the behavior.

Tsoran was absolutely right about the people who manage this game and their regard for their customers, and he was absolutely right about GemStone not being worth playing or supporting anymore. The best decision Tsoran ever made regarding GemStone was to sever and leave, and now I’m following his example.

Maybe I could have thrown away all pride and integrity and professionalism just to get more projects approved, but that isn’t me, and never will be. Better to retain my self-respect and go to work for other companies that actually matter.

GemStone is not a professional product, and -can’t- be one at the moment because it’s not run as a game or a business, but as the private power-trip of an utterly worthless human being. In all my years of freelancing, I have never worked for a company that was so antagonistic towards its customers, and so grossly ignorant of every last aspect of the industry they were supposedly a part of.

The information on my culture sites is now gone, and the sites themselves will disappear within the next few days to weeks, since I have some tentative personal plans for the info on them once stripped of the legacy GS garbage. Also, GemStone and the people who run it are so repulsive to me at this point that I don’t want to even passively encourage people to play. People who still play GS will have to make do with the official documentation, even if it is consistently written as if by remedial fifth-graders.

Maybe one day players (and the good GMs) will have the stones to demand change, and be genuinely willing to walk out of the game for good if it doesn’t happen. If Sirina gets run out of town on a rail like she deserves, and someone competent, honest, and intelligent, who knows anything at all about gaming or management, gets put in charge, I may come back and take another look at the product again. But I’m not going to hold my breath that this’ll happen before the game dies.

And frankly, the time I used to waste on GS has already been put towards more productive pursuits, dealing with real companies who actually care about the quality of their products and the experience of their customers.

So, to GemStone: Good riddance. Enjoy what few years you have left as an expensive, overly-elaborate cybersex chat room.

(tl;dr - GS is managed by some of the least intelligent people I’ve ever met, who also happen to be pathological liars. Staff is “managed” based solely on cronyism, and the people in charge know literally nothing about gaming, business, or customer service. Even if it were free to play, the game as it stands would not be worth anyone’s time or money.)

[xtirenx]

Congratulations, yours is the post that has finally driven me out of lurker status. I've been reading the PC for... what, 10 years now, and I've never seen the need to actually respond to something, but here it is:

Wow.

Everyone knows Simutronics isn't the most competent company. All you have to do is meet some of the onsite staff if you need confirmation of that. If you went to working for them, knowing that, I can't believe you're shocked that things didn't work out. The reason most people stick around is for the community and the game itself.

You claim repeatedly in your snippy, small--and no, by no means am I referring to brevity here--tirade that you love GemStone IV. But because your superiors had the audacity to fire you based on what seemed like a laundry list of failings, the game is totally a wash and it's nothing more than a cybersex lounge? That's some arrogance talking right there. I'd be willing to bet that you didn't come to this epiphany about how awful GS was until you got fired.

I mean, it sounds like you're convinced that you did a lot as DE Guru, but as a long time Dark Elf player I wasn't even aware you existed. You might have compelling reasons why you did approximately nothing in your position, but the other race gurus seem to manage to release stuff with some regularity... so I'd point out that the only consistent factor in all the failures you mentioned in your post was your involvement.

A lot of us still have fun with this game. I'm sorry they fired you, and I'm sorry you're butthurt over it. However, the way you spent a gazillion paragraphs slamming other people who, by your own admission, are volunteers because they didn't want to put up with you just comes off bad, man.

I wish we could hear the other side of things, but as with the Quitzel debacle, we probably never will.

[thefarmer]

Congratulations, yours is the post that has finally driven me out of lurker status. I've been reading the PC for... what, 10 years now, and I've never seen the need to actually respond to something, but here it is:

Wow.

Everyone knows Simutronics isn't the most competent company. All you have to do is meet some of the onsite staff if you need confirmation of that. If you went to working for them, knowing that, I can't believe you're shocked that things didn't work out. The reason most people stick around is for the community and the game itself.

You claim repeatedly in your snippy, small--and no, by no means am I referring to brevity here--tirade that you love GemStone IV. But because your superiors had the audacity to fire you based on what seemed like a laundry list of failings, the game is totally a wash and it's nothing more than a cybersex lounge? That's some arrogance talking right there. I'd be willing to bet that you didn't come to this epiphany about how awful GS was until you got fired.

A lot of us still have fun with this game. I'm sorry they fired you, and I'm sorry you're butthurt over it. However, the way you spent a gazillion paragraphs slamming other people who, by your own admission, are volunteers because they didn't want to put up with you just comes off bad, man.

I wish we could hear the other side of things, but as with the Quitzel debacle, we probably never will.




It suddenly smells suspiciously like GM in here..

[Leeker]

xtirenx, I'm not Khshathra and based on his above statements, I doubt he'll be reading anything GS related, so you are likely wasting your words trying to bash him.

[Androidpk]

Congratulations, yours is the post that has finally driven me out of lurker status. I've been reading the PC for... what, 10 years now, and I've never seen the need to actually respond to something, but here it is:

Wow.

Everyone knows Simutronics isn't the most competent company. All you have to do is meet some of the onsite staff if you need confirmation of that. If you went to working for them, knowing that, I can't believe you're shocked that things didn't work out. The reason most people stick around is for the community and the game itself.

You claim repeatedly in your snippy, small--and no, by no means am I referring to brevity here--tirade that you love GemStone IV. But because your superiors had the audacity to fire you based on what seemed like a laundry list of failings, the game is totally a wash and it's nothing more than a cybersex lounge? That's some arrogance talking right there. I'd be willing to bet that you didn't come to this epiphany about how awful GS was until you got fired.

I mean, it sounds like you're convinced that you did a lot as DE Guru, but as a long time Dark Elf player I wasn't even aware you existed. You might have compelling reasons why you did approximately nothing in your position, but the other race gurus seem to manage to release stuff with some regularity... so I'd point out that the only consistent factor in all the failures you mentioned in your post was your involvement.

A lot of us still have fun with this game. I'm sorry they fired you, and I'm sorry you're butthurt over it. However, the way you spent a gazillion paragraphs slamming other people who, by your own admission, are volunteers because they didn't want to put up with you just comes off bad, man.

I wish we could hear the other side of things, but as with the Quitzel debacle, we probably never will.

Sup Sirina

[Warriorbird]

I dunno if Sirina is that proactive.

[Elvenlady]

Sup Sirina

I'm thinking Alyias actually.

[Gelston]

I mean, it sounds like you're convinced that you did a lot as DE Guru, but as a long time Dark Elf player I wasn't even aware you existed. You might have compelling reasons why you did approximately nothing in your position, but the other race gurus seem to manage to release stuff with some regularity... so I'd point out that the only consistent factor in all the failures you mentioned in your post was your involvement..

Funny, I played a dwarf and I knew damn well he existed. He held Dark Elf OOC Meetings fairly commonly, and he'd stay there past midnight many times talking to players. He also would give a lot of info out about his documentation that he had written, and it sucks that we won't beable to see it.

Too fucking bad. He was a really cool dude, that seemed to me, to genuinely care about the playerbase.

[xtirenx]

Funny, I played a dwarf and I knew damn well he existed. He held Dark Elf OOC Meetings fairly commonly, and he'd stay there past midnight many times talking to players. He also would give a lot of info out about his documentation that he had written, and it sucks that we won't beable to see it.

Too fucking bad. He was a really cool dude, that seemed to me, to genuinely care about the playerbase.

I don't really doubt that he cared about the player base. They just became irrelevant when he wasn't getting anything out of the exchange.

[Gelston]

I don't really doubt that he cared about the player base. They just became irrelevant when he wasn't getting anything out of the exchange.

How would you know? You said you didn't even know him.

[xtirenx]

How would you know? You said you didn't even know him.

I'm referring specifically to this post, which was a huge 'fuck you' to us, not to mention taking down his site.

[Gelston]

I'm referring specifically to this post, which was a huge 'fuck you' to us, not to mention taking down his site.

I don't see it that way. And it is his site. Why would he pay to keep up a site for a game he no longer has anything to do with?

[Warriorbird]

Actually seeing the completed docs would make me buy this more. We don't.

[Asha]

Can someone please tl;dr for me? :/

[xtirenx]

Can someone please tl;dr for me? :/

GM was fired, is self-destructing, I am apparently Sirina or Alyias.

[Gelston]

Can someone please tl;dr for me? :/

It has a tl;dr at the bottom. He made it himself.

[Gelston]

GM was fired, is self-destructing, I am apparently Sirina or Alyias.

And no, when Sirina posts on here, she doesn't hide her identity.

[Parkbandit]

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e6/belike53/I_bcc4ab_1344619.jpg

[Asha]

It has a tl;dr at the bottom. He made it himself.

I checked. It didn't explain the story.
Doesn't really seem hugely interesting after scanning through.

[Warriorbird]

I checked. It didn't explain the story.
Doesn't really seem hugely interesting after scanning through.

Made complaint (with questionable grasp of time), said stuff about DR v GS we already know, said his docs were absolutely awesome (and admittedly, I dug the hell out of his teaser meetings) but doesn't actually post the docs or have them posted.

In this complaint, the Faendryl and Dhe'nar docs = tits and they aren't in evidence.

Tits or GTFO.

((If you rage out, rage out with something supporting it. I know players who really appreciated the stuff on that site, too. And yes, I know, people could go "BUT WHAT ABOUT THE NDA?" He already violated the hell of that.))

[Fallen]

He was either lying when he said the documents were in QC, and therefore out of his hands, or they were, and he shouldn't be given shit for them never being released. You can't QC your own shit, so it isn't his fault the stuff wasn't out yet.

That being said, Khshathra was IMO a great GM. He met regularly with players and would discuss any issues they liked for as long as they liked, and would divulge as much as his position of GM would allow. Name me another GM who did that month in and month out. He gladly accepted player input, gave meaningful advice, and was about as honest and straightforward in his responses as one could ever hope for out of a GM.

As for the person saying he didn't know existed, why wouldn't you have gone to ANY of the probably 10+ DE meetings that were clearly marked on the calendar and globally accessible if you actually had a passing interest in DE culture?

[HouseofElves]

Regardless about the completion of docs or not, K had town halls all the time. Also in "thank you" posts for events and storylines, his name got brought up a lot.

Whatever the spark to write this might have been, it solidifies rather eloquently a lot of assumptions I've had about the leadership and management under Sirina. I've had a first hand experience with her sense of business ethics and customer service.

[Fallen]

Whatever the spark to write this might have been, it solidifies rather eloquently a lot of assumptions I've had about the leadership and management under Sirina. I've had a first hand experience with her sense of business ethics and customer service.

Bingo. I've also seen Sirina up close and personal in terms of her decision making process. Not a fan. I doubt anyone that has dealt with her on a first-hand basis would have much nice to say.

[Senglent]

Poor wording choices, brand new neg rep'd posting alt.... So many reasons not to take anything they say seriously

[Warriorbird]

I think some of the issues have been known for a long time. Him raising known issues to attack the game doesn't necessarily promote his cause. I'd say something of the opposite.

[shad0ws0ngs]

Funny, I played a dwarf and I knew damn well he existed. He held Dark Elf OOC Meetings fairly commonly, and he'd stay there past midnight many times talking to players. He also would give a lot of info out about his documentation that he had written, and it sucks that we won't beable to see it.

Too fucking bad. He was a really cool dude, that seemed to me, to genuinely care about the playerbase.

I really enjoyed all of his OOC Dark Elf meetings and he was incredibly amiable to suggestion and input. I really hope more GMs start doing these regularly.


He was either lying when he said the documents were in QC, and therefore out of his hands, or they were, and he shouldn't be given shit for them never being released. You can't QC your own shit, so it isn't his fault the stuff wasn't out yet.

As for the documents, when it was posted in the Dark Elf folder we were getting a new guru it was inquired as to the status of the socio-political Faendryl document and the Faendryl Embassy.. GM Izzea and Valyrka both posted that these were "still in the works" and "the embassies are a large focus of my energies right now and will happen!" (thats the new dark elf storyline in Illistim, apparently).


Whatever the spark to write this might have been, it solidifies rather eloquently a lot of assumptions I've had about the leadership and management under Sirina.

I am curious if anyone has positive things to say about Sirina? I honestly have never heard of a positive interaction. Granted, people don't complain about how awesome it was when things go alright, generally.

[Asha]

Thank WB!

[Warriorbird]

Thank WB!

Yep. I call em like I see em.

[Tgo01]

You claim repeatedly in your snippy, small--and no, by no means am I referring to brevity here--tirade that you love GemStone IV.

You know how players around here are always referring to GS as 'Gemstone IV.'

[That Jay]

I think I know why he was fired. He must of complained about wand bows.

[Latrinsorm]

This never happened when Warden was in charge.

[Manamethis]

is this why i cant be a MONK?!??!!

:mad:

[Eoghain]

Khshathra was the fucking man!

[AnticorRifling]

You know how players around here are always referring to GS as 'Gemstone IV.'

Damn right we do and often when we talk about playing GemStone IV in days past we fondly remember our Out Of Character conversations on America OnLine Instant Messenger.

[Elvenlady]

Damn right we do and often when we talk about playing GemStone IV in days past we fondly remember our Out Of Character conversations on America OnLine Instant Messenger.

Laugh Out Loud

[AnticorRifling]

I think this should be a no acronym day.

[Parkbandit]

I think this should be a no acronym day.

What the fuck?

Get the fuck out of here with that bullshit.

[Drew]

I think this should be a no acronym day.

Anticor should Shut The Fuck Up. :hug2:

[Asha]

I think this should be a no acronym day.

Are You Fucking Kidding Me?

[Divinity]

I think this should be a no acronym day.

Shaking My Head

[Divinity]

He updated:


So, to GemStone: Good riddance. Enjoy what few years you have left as an expensive, overly-elaborate cybersex chat room. (Edit: May be too late for this edit to be seen, but to be clear, this is what I feel current management runs it as, instead of the fully realized RPG the game could and should be)

Then added this note:


Just A Note of Thanks
• News

Hadn’t intended to say anything else, but the hosting on this site expires before the end of the week, so this may be my last chance to send this message.

I just really want to thank both the GMs and players (especially my dark elf townhall crew - you guys really are awesome) who’ve expressed support over the last few hours. Some of you chose to do it indirectly, and I totally understand why, and since I don’t have the contact information needed to thank you directly, hopefully you’ll see this note (and if one of you guys were running GS, I know the difference in the game would be night and day).

You’re the guys I’ll honestly miss working with and for.

If you guys are into games and RPGs outside of GS, though, I can guarantee you’ll see my work again someday.

[AnticorRifling]

Rolling On the Floor Laughing My Fucking Ass Off What The Fuck Barbeque

[DCSL]

Anyone saving all the information on tehir.net?

[Kronius]

Anyone saving all the information on tehir.net?

He pulled it off already

[AnticorRifling]

Wayback has a capture as of Dec 30, 2010.

[Fallen]

I mean to ask him for some of his other work as well. Hopefully he will be willing to make copies of his docs.

[Atlanteax]

It was not difficult to see how much unrealized potential that went ignored or even oppressed during the time I had behind the curtain.

Having idealism and enthusiasm squashed, and watching it happen across the board, as game development/maintenance went, essentially nullified any nostalgia I would normally have after having invested several years as a player in the game who really enjoyed it.

Anyhow, I posted my sentiments enough in the past, so no need to repeat myself further.

Nonetheless, it is a tremendous tragedy, considering the potential that Gemstone had.

[StrayRogue]

Ah I've missed stupid drama like this.

To be fair, I didn't know the GM/Player in question, but I'll pick at a few things:

1) This kind of "OMG THE BOSS IS A CUNT" stuff was always omnipresent when Warden was boss. I imagine it comes with the territory.

2) Companies don't run on Ass-Kissing and Back-Stabbing? You said you're a freelancer, so you're probably ignorant to how the above is totally false in the majority of places where there is a staff ruled by a manager. I have never personally worked in a place where there wasn't some douchebag higher up the chain.

I commend the post, though. Most GM's pass harmlessly into the night. This very forum used to be great for being the one place where you could spew any derision or annoyance with the staff/game. It seldom happens now - most likely because the game is on it's ass.

I'll also bet this is being passed around the GM cliques as we speak, too.

[Gizmo]

Anyone saving all the information on tehir.net?

Yeah, I wasn't aware he was doing it, and I probably should send him an email to see if he has it all archived elsewhere...Or, maybe ask him if he doesn't mind me taking over the hosting/domain duties while he steps away from GS.

It would be a shame to see all his past work go up in smoke, along with other various player contributions and such on that website.

But for now, I already removed the address from my sig on the officials :(

[Gelston]

Yeah, I wasn't aware he was doing it, and I probably should send him an email to see if he has it all archived elsewhere...Or, maybe ask him if he doesn't mind me taking over the hosting/domain duties while he steps away from GS.

It would be a shame to see all his past work go up in smoke, along with other various player contributions and such on that website.

But for now, I already removed the address from my sig on the officials :(

........


Wayback has a capture as of Dec 30, 2010.

[Gizmo]

........

Sorry, in response to D's comment about copying the website.

I guess it never quoted when I replied.

Move along, move along

[Ceyrin]

He was right... I did need a cup of coffee with that.

[Ker_Thwap]

There's always "that guy" in any text based games who creates the elaborate backstory. The one that doesn't quite mesh into the established history. Visions in his/her head about how the game should be played, how some race's history should be perceived, about how exactly every little thing should work.

They usually end up disappointed when people won't join their clan and roleplay along with their backstory. Typically they spend little time in game trying to roleplay, to spread their little gospel through force of personality and charisma. Instead they write "documents."

If these mystery documents are as poorly written and as rambling as his complaint, then it's a matter of "that guy" getting promoted to GM. Complaints about bosses are nearly always a two way street. The employee with poor communication skills will always have a tougher time dealing with a boss with average communication skills.

Getting fired from a time wasting, low paying position might be the best thing for this guy. Get your own life together before trying to correct the perceived management flaws of a silly game.

[Ryvicke]

There's always "that guy" in any text based games who creates the elaborate backstory. The one that doesn't quite mesh into the established history. Visions in his/her head about how the game should be played, how some race's history should be perceived, about how exactly every little thing should work.

They usually end up disappointed when people won't join their clan and roleplay along with their backstory. Typically they spend little time in game trying to roleplay, to spread their little gospel through force of personality and charisma. Instead they write "documents."

If these mystery documents are as poorly written and as rambling as his complaint, then it's a matter of "that guy" getting promoted to GM. Complaints about bosses are nearly always a two way street. The employee with poor communication skills will always have a tougher time dealing with a boss with average communication skills.

Getting fired from a time wasting, low paying position might be the best thing for this guy. Get your own life together before trying to correct the perceived management flaws of a silly game.

If "this guy" is the creator and writer of tehir.net and dhenar.com then he wrote, by a very wide margin, the most thoughtful culture documents I've ever read. Easily more engaging and interesting than anything on play.net and an important tool to anyone who wanted something more to work with regarding those two cultures. FWIW he also wrote the best piece of fiction based in the gemstone universe--his short story "Chains" for the CCF DE story contest. This link (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:6MlMUekRtz4J:dhenar.com/index.php%3F/weblog/chains/+site:dhenar.com+chains&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us) might work to get you to the google cache of it.

I really never perceived him as trying to push anything radical on anyone in game and it's clear, to me, that his work in game and through sorely needed updated culture docs (which would have been QC'ed of course, by others), would have been an absolute no-brainer win.

[Fallen]

He was actually quite careful NOT to push anything radical down the pipe to players. He was always willing to listen to concerns and everyone was welcome at the town halls. Not quite sure where the uninformed criticisms of K are coming from other than people blindly defending Simu.

[caelric]

... Not quite sure where the uninformed criticisms of K are coming from ...

Sirina's alts

[Kronius]

If "this guy" is the creator and writer of tehir.net and dhenar.com then he wrote, by a very wide margin, the most thoughtful culture documents I've ever read. Easily more engaging and interesting than anything on play.net and an important tool to anyone who wanted something more to work with regarding those two cultures. FWIW he also wrote the best piece of fiction based in the gemstone universe--his short story "Chains" for the CCF DE story contest. This link (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:6MlMUekRtz4J:dhenar.com/index.php%3F/weblog/chains/+site:dhenar.com+chains&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us) might work to get you to the google cache of it.

I really never perceived him as trying to push anything radical on anyone in game and it's clear, to me, that his work in game and through sorely needed updated culture docs (which would have been QC'ed of course, by others), would have been an absolute no-brainer win.

This.

[shad0ws0ngs]

If "this guy" is the creator and writer of tehir.net and dhenar.com then he wrote, by a very wide margin, the most thoughtful culture documents I've ever read.

You should have heard the excerpts he quoted at the dark elf OOC on the Faendryl socio-political document.. he was also doing a dhe'nar funeral rights document. It was really really good. I hope, once it passed QC, that it isn't changed too much. The socio-political document broadens the background RP for Faendryl and makes the culture so much more interesting, from what we've seen so far.

[Tgo01]

Is this the guy who started the dark elf poison semen thing?

[Kronius]

You should have heard the excerpts he quoted at the dark elf OOC on the Faendryl socio-political document.. he was also doing a dhe'nar funeral rights document. It was really really good. I hope, once it passed QC, that it isn't changed too much. The socio-political document broadens the background RP for Faendryl and makes the culture so much more interesting, from what we've seen so far.

You will never see these documents. K tried to push these through for months. He said it was obvious he was being stonewalled. Why would they publish them now when he is gone?

[Gelston]

no.

[Ker_Thwap]

I'm not kicking anyone's puppy. Maybe he's a great writer indeed. The point is, if you write an alternative/conflicting version of game history, do so for your own enjoyment. There's no guarantee that whatever you write will ever be instituted.

I've gotten really snippy in other games when I've been RPing according to "the manual" for years, and suddenly the official lore gets changed because someone got creative outside the game. What happens in the game always trumps whatever info someone chooses to put on the website, in my opinion.

[Gelston]

Did you read anything anyone else said in response to your first comment?

[Kronius]

Did you read anything anyone else said in response to your first comment?

I'm gonna guess no

[Latrinsorm]

I'm not kicking anyone's puppy. Maybe he's a great writer indeed. The point is, if you write an alternative/conflicting version of game history, do so for your own enjoyment. There's no guarantee that whatever you write will ever be instituted.

I've gotten really snippy in other games when I've been RPing according to "the manual" for years, and suddenly the official lore gets changed because someone got creative outside the game. What happens in the game always trumps whatever info someone chooses to put on the website, in my opinion.So which person is "that guy" here, you or Khsthahtrha?

[Ker_Thwap]

I express my creativity through my characters. It either catches on, and people like my characters and try to emulate and interact with them, or it doesn't. It's a simple process.

I don't spend my time creating elaborate alternative universes for established worlds, then throw a hissy fit when the owner of that world doesn't appreciate my work.

I do get miffed when I put ten years into a character acting a certain way and establishing a certain circle of influence, and some joker with his/her clever ideas on a website outside of the game tells me he has a better way to RP my character.

[Blazar]

Based on what I have heard of the documents he wrote, they were all based on current in game lore. I don't think he was trying to bring planes, trains, and automobiles to GS.

[Gelston]

You are still talking from a position of ignorance. Read the responses in full that people have given you, then reevaluate you responses.

[Ker_Thwap]

For the rep comment that tells me I come across as a brown noser... That's actually a fair point. I'll try to dispel it however. There's a lot of the Elanthian history I just find boring, or I find it doesn't translate into the game.

There are a hundred different authors I enjoy who have created more interesting worlds. But, that doesn't mean I want to merge their ideas into Elanthia.

[Ker_Thwap]

I've read the responses Gelston. What of them? I'm not taking an adversarial stand against them. In fact I agree with some of them. I wasn't aware I had to respond to "I agree" or "I disagree" to each point.

[Gelston]

You are saying he tried to create an alternate universe... Um... No..

He was writing documentation for things that were not covered. He was always very careful to not write conflicting information.

[Alfster]

This is a true nerd fight.

[Tgo01]

I do get miffed when I put ten years into a character acting a certain way and establishing a certain circle of influence, and some joker with his/her clever ideas on a website outside of the game tells me he has a better way to RP my character.

I'm sorry maybe I missed it somewhere but where did this 'joker' tell you he has a better way to RP your character?

[Ker_Thwap]

He didn't that I'm aware of. I was speaking generally, not specific to this guy. He does seem to fit the mold I put him in originally however. Seen it before, no doubt will see it again. I'm just sharing some nerdy world building theories of mine.

[Zylianara]

http://tehir.net/index.php?/site/comments/an_update_from_former_gm_khshathra/

Enjoy.


Pasted the article from the link

Although I did not have the time to devote to the above link from Leeker, I did read thoroughly what you pasted here for parusing. Thanks for copying that over here Farmer.

Ex-GM Khshathra, you have confirmed what a lot of us players have been feeling about the management of this game. They (the staff that engages in it) can't continue to toss bullshit at a community of players without some of it eventually sticking.

To keep it short, when something as simple as the descrepencies of altering our items continuously crops up through years and years of our interactions, it becomes blarringly obvious how inadequate the channels of communication between staff are; at times almost seemingly nonexistent. When goals are listed and continuously fall to the wayside, the player base (me in this case) wonders what internal strife is going on that they can't even complete their own stated goals.

When the great people behind the mask of 'GM' leave staff, noosed by an NDA, I cringe for the game and on a more personal level, myself. We've had great interaction, gotten to know each other through the years and on the personal level, I did not want you (Ex GMs) to let the experience behind the curtain cause you to fade off into the distance. I'm glad to see that some of you have put your displeasure (my word) aside and remained in this unique community.

As an example, Tsoran, assuming you might read this, some thought you were overreacting when the whole Droughtman betting incident happened. As I interpreted it, you were not. What I felt was that there was more to the incident that other people might not have been considering. You have been behind the curtain, I considered that when I read the thread(s).

Back to the works created by Ex-GM Khshathra, the Faendryl and Dark Elf documentation, which was viewed by some of the player base, it is still valid. The Dhe'nar has never needed staff to hand them their historical background. The player base is what created the Dhe'nar background. Since it is his/her(?) work, if Khshathra was ok with it, I say go with it. Use it. Roleplay it in the realms of Elanthia.

Why let great work go to the ether?

You, players of the Dhe'nar, have never needed anything handed to you from staff before, why now?

With Khshathras approval of course, I reiterate, go for it!

Lori

[Fallen]

With the OT website down the Tower documentation is basically unavailable. I'm not sure when that is subject to change. I'd have to bug a few people. On top of that, for reasons which should be obvious, Dhenar.com is down as well. Now you have the other source of Dhe'nar documentation gone, leaving you with the gutted version of the Tower docs that serves as the Official Lore.

I'd say Khshathra's Documentation was/is very much needed, both for Faendryl and Dhe'nar.

[Mathari]

Just chiming in to echo what others have pretty much already said: Khshathra wrote some of the best GS-related material out there (see tehir.net and dhenar.com) and at least seemed to be extremely active. I play GS very rarely, and I don't play any dark elven characters, but I've been well aware of Khshathra's regular in-game meetings and posts on the official forums. Sucks to see him go; his ideas were among the few that actually seemed worth serious development.

[Warriorbird]

I'd still like to see the documents. I'd also still like to see Tabor's voter id card.

[Sylvan Dreams]

I'd still like to see the documents. I'd also still like to see Tabor's voter id card.

I believe that when GM's create things like that during their time as a GM, the "stuff" in question (code, docs, whatever) are then the property of Simutronics, and not he GM in question. I don't believe that he can legally post the docs.

[Warriorbird]

I believe that when GM's create things like that during their time as a GM, the "stuff" in question (code, docs, whatever) are then the property of Simutronics, and not he GM in question. I don't believe that he can legally post the docs.

He couldn't legally post his letter either.

[HouseofElves]

Unless it was actually published on their website he can still claim it as his actual intellectual property, though it does become clouded if he was working under contract to specifically create these items or of he happened to create them while under contract.

[Sylvan Dreams]

He couldn't legally post his letter either.

Doubtful. He didn't give away anything that could be considered a company or code secret. He stated his opinions and viewpoint on what happened. His letter didn't reveal anything confidential.

[Warriorbird]

Doubtful. He didn't give away anything that could be considered a company or code secret. He stated his opinions and viewpoint on what happened. His letter didn't reveal anything confidential.

That's nowhere near all that's covered. What he posted pretty clearly violates the NDA.

[Fallen]

Has any GM in the history of GS..hell, of any Simu game ever gotten in trouble that we know of for violating their NDA? I somehow doubt it.

[Drew]

Has any GM in the history of GS..hell, of any Simu game ever gotten in trouble that we know of for violating their NDA? I somehow doubt it.

NDA's are very hard to enforce except in very specific cases. Also the litigation cost would not be worth whatever kind of "message" it would send.

[Fallen]

NDA's are very hard to enforce except in very specific cases. Also the litigation cost would not be worth whatever kind of "message" it would send.

Bingo. I very much doubt Simu has gobs of money to throw around because someone pointed out Sirina is a shitty manager.

[Sylvan Dreams]

So take the leftover Twitter money and create a "Cover Khshathra's Ass" legal fund.

[SHAFT]

Co-Worker's Not-So-Candid Quotes
"Best darn boss this side of awesome? Resounding yes! She offers the sugary wisdom on the top of my sundae ideas."
"Sirina always has the players best interest at heart and strives to make their dreams, desires, and expectations a reality. She has the patients of a saint, the compassion of a mom, the firmness of a dad, the knowledge of a scholar, and the creativity of an artist."
"She's my mentor. I've admired her from the moment I began working with her, and more than considering her a co-worker, I consider her a friend. She's taught me so much and will probably always be my go-to person for everything from QC questions to general advice (though she might not appreciate this as much as I do!)."
"She's awesomesocks! A real pleasure to work with. She represents integrity to me."
"Sirina is the queen of quality control and maintainer of GemStone's various cultures and clans, giving them breadth and depth."
"You wish you were as awesome as Sirina, but you're not. Don't cry."
"When I was hired for her team, I was a little bit OMG It's GM Sirina!!! Because she's someone I've admired and respected as a player. In the time I've been working with her, I've found her incredibly supportive, patient and encouraging. She's a great leader too."
"Best SGM ever, I think she and I share a few neuron pathways. "

"Apparently, I enjoy being right a little too much." -- Sirina

According to play.net she's well liked.

[Tgo01]

Co-Worker's Not-So-Candid Quotes
"Best darn boss this side of awesome? Resounding yes! She offers the sugary wisdom on the top of my sundae ideas."
"Sirina always has the players best interest at heart and strives to make their dreams, desires, and expectations a reality. She has the patients of a saint, the compassion of a mom, the firmness of a dad, the knowledge of a scholar, and the creativity of an artist."
"She's my mentor. I've admired her from the moment I began working with her, and more than considering her a co-worker, I consider her a friend. She's taught me so much and will probably always be my go-to person for everything from QC questions to general advice (though she might not appreciate this as much as I do!)."
"She's awesomesocks! A real pleasure to work with. She represents integrity to me."
"Sirina is the queen of quality control and maintainer of GemStone's various cultures and clans, giving them breadth and depth."
"You wish you were as awesome as Sirina, but you're not. Don't cry."
"When I was hired for her team, I was a little bit OMG It's GM Sirina!!! Because she's someone I've admired and respected as a player. In the time I've been working with her, I've found her incredibly supportive, patient and encouraging. She's a great leader too."
"Best SGM ever, I think she and I share a few neuron pathways. "

"Apparently, I enjoy being right a little too much." -- Sirina

According to play.net she's well liked.

Well heck I'm sold. Where do I get in line to kiss Sirina's ass?

[subzero]

According to play.net she's well liked.

No shit, huh?

[Warriorbird]

I think she's got issues on a customer service front. Simu should never let the APM be effectively isolated from everyone, because, when it comes down to it, Solomon isn't really a GS PM.

Does that mean that in comparison to all the other potential choices for the job she's by far the best? I think yes.

We can look at some of the past GM issues on these boards to see her compare really rather favorably.

I'm still waiting to see K's documents or have him not hold his site hostage in an attempt to bash the game that he got fired from.

[Sylvan Dreams]

I'm still waiting to see K's documents or have him not hold his site hostage in an attempt to bash the game that he got fired from.

I don't think he's holding his site hostage. He's done with the game, so took the website down. Why is the playerbase entitled to HIS documentation that he created as a player? It's his to do with as he pleases - even if that means not sharing it with those who would/have been using it.

Lots, if not most people who make fansites take them down or just let them expire when they're done with the game. It's their right to do so. It's not a players right to have their work, it's a players privilege.

I enjoyed both his sites a great deal and am sad to see them go. Other players will hopefully rise up with their own docs and ideas for the cultures. Their work will be no more or less 'legit' than his was.

[Latrinsorm]

And it's the internet, you can't "hold anything hostage". Wayback sees all.

[Warriorbird]

I don't think he's holding his site hostage. He's done with the game, so took the website down. Why is the playerbase entitled to HIS documentation that he created as a player? It's his to do with as he pleases - even if that means not sharing it with those who would/have been using it.

Lots, if not most people who make fansites take them down or just let them expire when they're done with the game. It's their right to do so. It's not a players right to have their work, it's a players privilege.

I enjoyed both his sites a great deal and am sad to see them go. Other players will hopefully rise up with their own docs and ideas for the cultures. Their work will be no more or less 'legit' than his was.

I think you're pretty much entirely ignoring the tone of what he wrote, but carry on.

[Kembal]

Just chiming in to echo what others have pretty much already said: Khshathra wrote some of the best GS-related material out there (see tehir.net and dhenar.com) and at least seemed to be extremely active. I play GS very rarely, and I don't play any dark elven characters, but I've been well aware of Khshathra's regular in-game meetings and posts on the official forums. Sucks to see him go; his ideas were among the few that actually seemed worth serious development.

So, interesting question: How do we know that he was extremely active? Just because he posted on the forums and did OOC meetings doesn't mean he was doing his required work as a GM. As players, we don't get to see that side of the house, and it's entirely possible that a GM can misdirect us into thinking he or she is doing a lot of work, when in actuality, they're doing very little.

Unfortunately, we don't have a staff list from last year to know what team he was on, so we don't have any view into what work Simu expected him to be completing. But Simu doesn't hire GMs to be just documentation writers (that's a management/business practice that's entirely valid to question, but different subject), and it doesn't sound like he was doing anything else but documentation. (Had he actually run a storyline yet, outside of what the warband's role in Kenstrom's Landing storyline?)

Reading the letter, it's way too focused on how great he is and what kind of great stuff he had written to make me believe that his version of the story is entirely or even mostly accurate.

[DaCapn]

So, interesting question: How do we know that he was extremely active? Just because he posted on the forums and did OOC meetings doesn't mean he was doing his required work as a GM. As players, we don't get to see that side of the house, and it's entirely possible that a GM can misdirect us into thinking he or she is doing a lot of work, when in actuality, they're doing very little.

Unfortunately, we don't have a staff list from last year to know what team he was on, so we don't have any view into what work Simu expected him to be completing. But Simu doesn't hire GMs to be just documentation writers (that's a management/business practice that's entirely valid to question, but different subject), and it doesn't sound like he was doing anything else but documentation. (Had he actually run a storyline yet, outside of what the warband's role in Kenstrom's Landing storyline?)

Reading the letter, it's way too focused on how great he is and what kind of great stuff he had written to make me believe that his version of the story is entirely or even mostly accurate.

I've never heard of this GM before and don't play any dark elves but I did read every word posted in this thread. It sounds like the players who are most interested and involved in GS dark elf culture back him and that he created multiple websites with a lot of content (which people seem to be worried about keeping alive and visible). What do you imagine falls under the purview of "racial guru?" Draft docs, get players interested, and facilitate RP. A number of players seem to think he was doing just that.

Obviously, as has already been stated, there's plenty that we'll never know. You've got some plain old devils advocate going on there which is fine but I think that the proof is in the player evaluation. He wasn't chasing down bugs like Finros leaving a footprint of fixes behind. The measure of this type of GMs success is really in the player satisfaction.

[Fallen]

His stuff got swallowed up by QC. It is that simple. It isn't the first time that it has happened and it wont be the last. Think of how long it takes for actual updates to the game, documents, etc to make it onto the official boards. Saying the GM's work wasn't worthy of the website, or worse, that he never actually did it is a faulty line of reasoning.

[Kronius]

And in that sense he made a lot of promises. There wasn't follow through. People want there to have been and are judging him on work performed before he was a GM. Meetings aren't docs. As has been seen before I'll go to the mattresses for a GM if they actually produce work.

I guess you failed to read the part where he explained that his documents were finished and that they were being sat on for months with no explanation as to why they were not being sent out to SGMs for approval. But you know, no REAL work was actually done.


I wrote three major documents for the game, that in over a year and a half, Sirina, after deciding she should be solely responsible for documentation, refused to publish. Her excuse changed every time I contacted her (roughly every two-three months), until she finally admitted in November 2011 that she had never even bothered emailing the finished docs to the SGMs for approval, a process that takes a minute, tops, but that apparently couldn’t be done in well over a year.

[Androidpk]

Wondering why Sirina still even has this job position.

[Kronius]

Wondering why Sirina still even has this job position.

Simu is too busy trying to be Zynga to care about 20 year old text based games. With the right program manager, GS could probably make a TON more money than it already does. I guess they must hate money.

[Ceyrin]

Simu is too busy trying to be Zynga to care about 20 year old text based games. With the right program manager, GS could probably make a TON more money than it already does. I guess they must hate money.

If this were the case, they could actually get some kind of microtransaction system going for their text games which would likely increase their revenue a lot.

How many people do you think would buy a 'Lumnis potion' on a weekly/monthly basis?

Temporary enhancive items for your class' prime reqs that last for 24/48/72 hours of login time?

How about something that simply ups your treasure gen rate as if you were +1 to your group, and or +5 levels under where you're hunting?

I think people would buy some of this shit. I know I would.

How would they distribute it without a lot of GM time? The in-game mail system. Buy on the website. Deliver to your mailbox IG - all automated.

[Warriorbird]

I guess you failed to read the part where he explained that his documents were finished and that they were being sat on for months with no explanation as to why they were not being sent out to SGMs for approval. But you know, no REAL work was actually done.

Which is an awfully convenient claim with no evidence for and things against like "I was working over Christmas!" when he was fired mid December. It'd sure be nice if we actually got to see said documents. We won't, because they're the equivalent of Tabor's voting card. Vapor.

[Fallen]

Yes. We won't see the document due to ANY fault of the GS staff. It completely is due to the fact that Khshathra was flat out lying about producing anything at all.

[Fallen]

If this were the case, they could actually get some kind of microtransaction system going for their text games which would likely increase their revenue a lot.

How many people do you think would buy a 'Lumnis potion' on a weekly/monthly basis?

Temporary enhancive items for your class' prime reqs that last for 24/48/72 hours of login time?

How about something that simply ups your treasure gen rate as if you were +1 to your group, and or +5 levels under where you're hunting?

I think people would buy some of this shit. I know I would.

How would they distribute it without a lot of GM time? The in-game mail system. Buy on the website. Deliver to your mailbox IG - all automated.

Solomon has stated multiple times that he was extremely interested in moving GS towards a micro-transaction system, but that the game and its billing policies (and website and blah blah blah) are too intricate (read archaic) to handle such a change. He said that even hiring outside companies to write the code wouldn't help because they couldn't provide the services as Simu would want it.

[BriarFox]

Solomon has stated multiple times that he was extremely interested in moving GS towards a micro-transaction system, but that the game and its billing policies (and website and blah blah blah) are too intricate (read archaic) to handle such a change. He said that even hiring outside companies to write the code wouldn't help because they couldn't provide the services as Simu would want it.

All of which I've always taken as, "I'm not really invested in doing it."

[Gelston]

They always blame the billing system for everything. I mean, seriously, they can't change the forums to something nice because of the billing system.... k.

[Kronius]

All of which I've always taken as, "I'm not really invested in doing it."

I'm sure it's partially because of what you've stated above and partial truth. Think about it, the game is over two decades old. Coded in a propriety language that makes it very hard to outsource specific projects to get cheaper production.

Sure they're interested in it, but the costs are probably prohibitive. I'm sure a thorough cost-benefit analysis was never performed, because that actually requires work and a little bit of business acumen.

[Tolwynn]

They set up microtransactions just fine on Fantasy University. Granted, Facebook is set up way better for that sort of thing, but it wouldn't be entirely impossible in Gem, even under existing coding.

Just set up a ticketed event where you can pick up triple x potions or whatever other benefits are made available. Run them at repeating intervals, and have someone parcel out the trinkets in-game until the mail system finally goes up.

[caelric]

Hell, they can't even get premium and platinum points combined 'because of the billing system', something they have promised for over 2 years now (I know, not nearly as long as monks)

Fucking crap.

[Ceyrin]

They set up microtransactions just fine on Fantasy University. Granted, Facebook is set up way better for that sort of thing, but it wouldn't be entirely impossible in Gem, even under existing coding.

Just set up a ticketed event where you can pick up triple x potions or whatever other benefits are made available. Run them at repeating intervals, and have someone parcel out the trinkets in-game until the mail system finally goes up.

Yeah, that's because, as you say, FB is set up for that. Additionally, they built it in from the ground up.

As for the ticketed event thing, that's exactly what I saw Droughtman's as. Buy a ticket, get a random 'decent or better' item. It was the closest thing to microtransaction as anything GS has ever done.

As for their lack of business acumen... I think they have it, they just don't want to spend it on a 20 year old horse. Better to invest it in the newest stallion in the stable.

[Warriorbird]

Yes. We won't see the document due to ANY fault of the GS staff. It completely is due to the fact that Khshathra was flat out lying about producing anything at all.

Given as he lied twice in his letter to bash the game...

[Fallen]

ugh. I don't want to go back through 11 pages. Link me to where you pointed that out?

[Warriorbird]

ugh. I don't want to go back through 11 pages. Link me to where you pointed that out?

He claims "I worked all the way through Christmas!" He was fired in the middle of the month.

His "personal problem" seems to have been three sets of probation, hardly anything immediate either.

Then "Wait 2 months and make big unsupportable claims about the document while citing issues irrelevant to his case!"

[Tgo01]

Given as he lied twice in his letter to bash the game...


He claims "I worked all the way through Christmas!" He was fired in the middle of the month.

His "personal problem" seems to have been three sets of probation, hardly anything immediate either.

Then "Wait 2 months and make big unsupportable claims about the document while citing issues irrelevant to his case!"

I don't see how any of that is 'bashing the game.'

[Warriorbird]

I don't see how any of that is 'bashing the game.'

Did you even read his letter?

[Tgo01]

Did you even read his letter?

You said


Given as he lied twice in his letter to bash the game...

I'm not going to get into whether or not the two things you said are lies because I really don't care that much. But assuming they were how were they lies to 'bash the game'? Yes he bashed the game and the management numerous times in his rant but lying about when he was fired has nothing to do with the rest of his complaints.

Unless you're making the claim that since he lied about being fired 2 weeks after he really was fired then he's lying about everything he said.

[Warriorbird]

You said



I'm not going to get into whether or not the two things you said are lies because I really don't care that much. But assuming they were how were they lies to 'bash the game'? Yes he bashed the game and the management numerous times in his rant but lying about when he was fired has nothing to do with the rest of his complaints.

Unless you're making the claim that since he lied about being fired 2 weeks after he really was fired then he's lying about everything he said.

His letter was to bash the game. He lied twice in it.

[Tgo01]

His letter was to bash the game. He lied twice in it.

Thanks for clearing that up.

[Warriorbird]

Thanks for clearing that up.

I'm more than willing to help you read whenever you need it.

[Tgo01]

I'm more than willing to help you read whenever you need it.

Awesome. The story of Goldilocks is giving me a hard time, let's tackle that one first.

[Makkah]

Awesome. The story of Goldilocks is giving me a hard time, let's tackle that one first.

That's a run-on sentence.

[Fallen]

He did flat out lie about doing all his QC work. And you should thank the new guru since they are having to do the embassies you were promised that he never did a damn thing on.

I'll thank the new guru when he/she publishes K's documents. You ..do know K came up with those embassies..right? How could he not have done a damn thing on the concept he himself created?

[Tgo01]

That's a run-on sentence.

You're a run-on sentence.

[Makkah]

I'll thank the new guru when he/she publishes K's documents. You ..do know K came up with those embassies..right? How could he not have done a damn thing on the concept he himself created?

That wasn't me, you misquoting hippy.

[Fallen]

It makes my life simpler when I attribute all misdeeds done in this world to one person. That person is you. I need you to do me a solid and go with it.

[thefarmer]

I'll thank the new guru when he/she publishes K's documents. You ..do know K came up with those embassies..right? How could he not have done a damn thing on the concept he himself created?

Coming up with a great idea doesn't mean they do (any of) the work.

I point to the awesome idea of an airship and then point to the actual work that got put into releasing it.

[Fallen]

As I recall from the Townhalls, he painted all the rooms (Which is different from coding, i'm aware) and had the storyline ready for its release. He also had approved and painted the Faendryl outpost, which was separate from the embassies. The man admitted from the start he couldn't code worth a lick, which is why he was CE instead of DEV. He did a lot of planning with the old Guru of Ta'Illistim who also got the sack (or quit or whatever). I imagine that put a rather sizable dent into progress for the embassies.

Or it was all lies. Whichever is easist to swallow I suppose.

[m444w]

I know Kshshshshshshsahtharhahrtrara spent the time tracking down and fixing several bugged items, that he wasn't around for the creation of, that players had been complaining about for years.

Which can be tremendously hard given how many people like to take said items and toss them in their locker and say fuck it.

A little hard to believe that a guy willing to spend the time on a project like that didn't get anything done.

[Warriorbird]

I know Kshshshshshshsahtharhahrtrara spent the time tracking down and fixing several bugged items, that he wasn't around for the creation of, that players had been complaining about for years.

Which can be tremendously hard given how many people like to take said items and toss them in their locker and say fuck it.

A little hard to believe that a guy willing to spend the time on a project like that didn't get anything done.

Which is odd because on the other hand he "couldn't code a lick." And he'd say he got approval for stuff and he hadn't.

One of those mysteries wrapped up in an enigma in a riddle. And it didn't have to be.

[Ryvicke]

His letter was to bash the game.

I can see kind of where you're getting this from, but reading the letter again after a week or so it still seems like the guy is just upset. He doesn't come across as very measured but he also comes across as someone that spent years writing thoughtful, fantastic cultural docs that he was able to post immediately, then got the chance to put the mark on the official documentation and was rejected by whatever mechanism kept his writing from going through the official process.

I don't buy that he spent years of his free time writing excellent shit only to become a GM and then just completely stop any sort of creative contribution to something he was obviously passionate about. Not to mention the dude held about a gazillion DE meetings, and having attended at least three, he didn't seem to be doing it for the lolz--they weren't really that "fun." He usually was pretty serious and just introduced possible ideas he was working on and took player comments/questions.

[Warriorbird]

I can see kind of where you're getting this from, but reading the letter again after a week or so it still seems like the guy is just upset. He doesn't come across as very measured but he also comes across as someone that spent years writing thoughtful, fantastic cultural docs that he was able to post immediately, then got the chance to put the mark on the official documentation and was rejected by whatever mechanism kept his writing from going through the official process.

I don't buy that he spent years of his free time writing excellent shit only to become a GM and then just completely stop any sort of creative contribution to something he was obviously passionate about. Not to mention the dude held about a gazillion DE meetings, and having attended at least three, he didn't seem to be doing it for the lolz--they weren't really that "fun." He usually was pretty serious and just introduced possible ideas he was working on and took player comments/questions.

Much like people don't get banned for no reason, people don't get fired from being GMs for no reason. He spent months before he wrote that letter. He also went to known issues (Solomon's detachment from GS, Sirina not being exactly a vocal presence) and skims his.


By the end of last year, I’d been having some serious real life problems, problems that had been present earlier in the year to some extent, but that had compounded around EG. I don’t intend to go into detail, but the issues were pretty serious. As of today, they’re in the past, but they were pretty stressful and more than a little depressing at the time.

By the end of December, the time and energy required to deal with these problems led to a casual questioning of my -ability- to perform some of my GM duties, but at no point did I ever stop performing any of them."

This makes it seem like he was cut off at the knees. He apparently had countless chances (and months) to fix his issues, which included an extreme tendency to promise without approval, act without approval, and a marked inability to complete what was supposed to be his strength. On some level, I think the meetings might have been to push himself to actually complete the stuff. I attended more than one myself. I was hopeful. Yet none of the stuff is real.

I know the Simu culture for good or ill, I dare say, intimately. His story just doesn't ring true. He appeals to things people want to believe and some things that really are issues to try to lay his issues off on other folks.

[BriarFox]

Coming up with a great idea doesn't mean they do (any of) the work.

I point to the awesome idea of an airship and then point to the actual work that got put into releasing it.

Auchand seriously took one for the team with the airship.

[Sylvan Dreams]

Auchand seriously took one for the team with the airship.

Whatever points he earned fixing the airship he blew with the Ride of the Red Dreamer "storyline."

[thefarmer]

Auchand seriously took one for the team with the airship.

How did he take one for the team?

[BriarFox]

How did he take one for the team?

The airship wasn't Auchand's project. He was designing the boat. The other designer didn't do anything on the airship and it got dropped in Auchand's lap about a week before EG.


Whatever points he earned fixing the airship he blew with the Ride of the Red Dreamer "storyline."

Isn't that starting back up? It's not like storylines haven't been put on hold for a few before.

[Warriorbird]

Some help on Ride might've curiously not materialized too.

[Sylvan Dreams]

Isn't that starting back up? It's not like storylines haven't been put on hold for a few before.

Hasn't it been on hold for like over a year or something ridiculous like that? I remember hearing a lot of people complaining because it came to an abrupt "pause." He did post that it was going to continue, but many involved in the storyline no longer play. From what I've heard about those who're still around, there's been nothing of note except for a tidbit here and there every few weeks.

So...whatever points he earned with the community with the airship, he totally lost by deciding that his storyline was not a priority.

[Warriorbird]

Hasn't it been on hold for like over a year or something ridiculous like that? I remember hearing a lot of people complaining because it came to an abrupt "pause." He did post that it was going to continue, but many involved in the storyline no longer play. From what I've heard about those who're still around, there's been nothing of note except for a tidbit here and there every few weeks.

So...whatever points he earned with the community with the airship, he totally lost by deciding that his storyline was not a priority.

I love your conviction that this is exactly what happened.

[Sylvan Dreams]

I love your conviction that this is exactly what happened.

If you know, by all means, share!

[Warriorbird]

If you know, by all means, share!

And thus the problem with both A. Sirina's customer service skills and B. What K posted. About all I can say is that there was supposed to be staff support for some things that never materialized.

[thefarmer]

The airship wasn't Auchand's project. He was designing the boat. The other designer didn't do anything on the airship and it got dropped in Auchand's lap about a week before EG.



Designing the boat was exactly what didn't happen on time. As for it getting dropped in his lap, well frankly, he would say that wouldn't he?

Even if that's the case, and I suppose it could be, just ask Ardwen how much work Auchand did for him.

[Sylvan Dreams]

And thus the problem with both A. Sirina's customer service skills and B. What K posted. About all I can say is that there was supposed to be staff support for some things that never materialized.


So you're implying that you have some sort of inside information that you can't share because you're not supposed to have it?

[Warriorbird]

So you're implying that you have some sort of inside information that you can't share because you're not supposed to have it?

Just like you and the fellow are implying that K was a knight in shining armor. You can put the rest together.

[BriarFox]

Designing the boat was exactly what didn't happen on time. As for it getting dropped in his lap, well frankly, he would say that wouldn't he?

Even if that's the case, and I suppose it could be, just ask Ardwen how much work Auchand did for him.

The ship and all had Ardwen's designs when I got it. The whole tension over that issue is completely attributable to Simu's backasswards employment and compensation policies for GMs. They're basically volunteers, but players rightly expect professionals. That's not the GMs' fault -- it's Simu's.

[Fallen]

Just like you and the fellow are implying that K was a knight in shining armor. You can put the rest together.

Everyone sticking up for K is definitely a GM. Err, and apparently people against him too.

[Fallen]

What did Itzel do to get fired?

[Warriorbird]

What did Itzel do to get fired?

After actually working hard, stood by her guns. Understood the concept of QC. Was a bit of a diva but somehow mysteriously got things approved on a frequent basis.

Note the difference in levels of actually produced work.

[Fallen]

I'm sure she did something to deserve it, though. I mean, people never just get fired for no good reason. Or maybe, just maybe, shit is really cliquish on staff and people sometimes get a bad shake.

[Fallen]

This is sounding more like the officials by the second. You're right. Staff can do no wrong. They never miss their deadlines, never impliment bad policy decisions, are extremely responsive to their playerbase, and above all operate with a true sense of transparency and even-handedness.

Rah Rah Rah

[Warriorbird]

This is sounding more like the officials by the second. You're right. Staff can do no wrong. They never miss their deadlines, never impliment bad policy decisions, are extremely responsive to their playerbase, and above all operate with a true sense of transparency and even-handedness.

Rah Rah Rah

So because some guy gets fired he's automatically right. Got it.

I think we, as players of the cultures involved, don't have to immediately give the benefit to someone who never actually put anything out.

The more this continues the more you illustrate the point I made to your other half. He crafted this just to hook folks like you.

[Latrinsorm]

About all I can say is that there was supposed to be staff support for some things that never materialized.
Just like you and the fellow are implying that K was a knight in shining armor. You can put the rest together.I get that you like being vague and mysterious, we all like that. You kind of come off like a douchebag this time though.

[Warriorbird]

I get that you like being vague and mysterious, we all like that. You kind of come off like a douchebag this time though.

He ignored the QC process. He missed deadlines. But apparently he can do no wrong because he might have never to be released documents tucked away that will never be seen.

Yeah, I went to the meetings. Yeah, I expected to actually see the documents. No, they don't exist.

Can you not see why I might be slightly irked?

"Oh but he's totally like this person who put out tons of stuff because he cited some other issues some folks have with Simu!"

No.

[Fallen]

Basically, he is claiming that Khshathra never produced any of the documentation he said he was working on, as well as producing bits of it during the Townhalls and talking about various point of it etc. It isn't like he didn't have 2 fucking websites completely full of awesome cultural documents to prove he is fully capable of producing such work.

Am I saying he is completely without blame in getting fired? No, how could I? I don't know the whole story. However, to repeatedly claim that these documents were never even entered in QC is a pretty bold claim. I simply don't think that is the case. Remember, the NEW guru said 2 of his documents were still actually going to come out. How is that possible if he never wrote them? Come on, man. Give the guy some credit.

[Fallen]

You must know something I and non-staff don't. You're speaking in absolutes about the state of his documents in QC. Two of which are still supposed to be coming out. As for the other two or three, we'll have to wait and see. Do let us know when you hear anything in the meantime.

[Warriorbird]

You must know something I and non-staff don't. You're speaking in absolutes about the state of his documents in QC. Two of which are still supposed to be coming out. As for the other two or three, we'll have to wait and see. Do let us know when you hear anything in the meantime.

You too.

So why exactly does this come months after his firing?

[Fallen]

So why exactly does this come months after his firing?

http://forum.gsplayers.com/showpost.php?p=1375259&postcount=1

See link for beginning of discussion.

[Latrinsorm]

He ignored the QC process. He missed deadlines. But apparently he can do no wrong because he might have never to be released documents tucked away that will never be seen.

Yeah, I went to the meetings. Yeah, I expected to actually see the documents. No, they don't exist.

Can you not see why I might be slightly irked?

"Oh but he's totally like this person who put out tons of stuff because he cited some other issues some folks have with Simu!"

No.I'm siding with Fallen here. This K guy clearly wrote a lot of stuff at some point. Simu QC is Godawful. It seems more likely that the guy actually did write this particular stuff and QC is straight denying it to you. They could even be throwing him under the bus to protect Simu integrity. There are reasons to believe him and doubt his detractors, no?

[thefarmer]

I'm siding with Fallen here. This K guy clearly wrote a lot of stuff at some point. Simu QC is Godawful. It seems more likely that the guy actually did write this particular stuff and QC is straight denying it to you. They could even be throwing him under the bus to protect Simu integrity. There are reasons to believe him and doubt his detractors, no?

Writing a lot of stuff doesn't mean it's necessarily useful, coherent or even in-line with the overall viewpoint that Staff has.

Sure, staff could be throwing him under the bus. It's also just as equally likely his shit sucked and QC is held up because they're cleaning up his mess.

[Warriorbird]

I'm siding with Fallen here. This K guy clearly wrote a lot of stuff at some point. Simu QC is Godawful. It seems more likely that the guy actually did write this particular stuff and QC is straight denying it to you. They could even be throwing him under the bus to protect Simu integrity. There are reasons to believe him and doubt his detractors, no?

Some. He did produce two awesome websites.

He did hold some nice meetings.

His IG quest stuff was nothing like his Tehir website. I was bored to tears.
None of his often promised Dark Elf stuff went live.

Itzel, in turn, who I've heard from staff types was difficult to work with, produced a tremendous wealth of RP, merchants, and culture.

This dude somehow manages to produce nothing noteworthy, yet claims to have planned "years of material." Planning != execution or doing.

Given personal experience with some item related stuff, I know for sure that he really was gone mid December and not actually "working hard during Christmas."

Having seen behind the curtain I know just how long GMs can linger on staff, totally doing nothing.

He acts like he just got immediately fired after his "personal problems". I really doubt that's the case. He also minimizes them and makes his document into an indictment of other people.

EDIT:

And yes, in essence, Tgo1. He didn't do much. Years passed. It's happened before. Then "Omg I was fired without warning!"

[Tgo01]

Having seen behind the curtain I know just how long GMs can linger on staff, totally doing nothing.

If it takes two years for them to fire a GM who literally does nothing maybe they are as inept as this guy claims they are. Heck even government employees have to at least pretend to do work to keep their jobs that long.

[Warriorbird]

If it takes two years for them to fire a GM who literally does nothing maybe they are as inept as this guy claims they are. Heck even government employees have to at least pretend to do work to keep their jobs that long.

It's a volunteer staff. Obviously they have to try to keep what they can. They can scrape by for a long time if they just do their basic duties. Presumably his "personal problems" included skipping those as well. Simultaneously it really illustrates the issue with "omg I was suddenly fired for no reason."

[Tgo01]

Does GS have that hard of a time finding replacement GM's that Simutronics keeps people around who do nothing instead of trying to replace them sooner?

[Warriorbird]

Does GS have that hard of a time finding replacement GM's that Simutronics keeps people around who do nothing instead of trying to replace them sooner?

It's a pretty tough gig. Huge time commitment. Finding quality people is presumably a lot tougher than the immediate assumption.

[Rimalon]

I still want whatever fucking Dark Elf guru there may be to post the winning cultural horror stories from CCF. THEY SAID THEY WOULD BE POSTED YEARS AGO.

Mine was all pedobear, and it kicked ass. Sigh.

[Androidpk]

It's a pretty tough gig. Huge time commitment. Finding quality people is presumably a lot tougher than the immediate assumption.

What kind of experience do you have working for Simu?

[Warriorbird]

What kind of experience do you have working for Simu?

My ex worked for them for several years.

[Irsila]

I have been silent because Chris wouldn't want anyone defending him but Warriorbird's comments have bothered me. I know K's side, beyond what he wrote in his rant.

I helped write the material K posted on Tehir.net. We came up with a great deal of material, some of which we never posted simply because we wanted to use it for our own characters.

He's an amazing fiction writer, a damn fine non-fiction writer and one of the best editors I ever had the opportunity to work alongside. His documents were completed. They should have zipped thru QC because he is a perfectionist and his own worst critic.

In the thirteen years I've known him, he's never once shown me a piece of writing that required fixing anything beyond a single typo. Seriously, do you even understand what kind of discipline this man has as a writer?

If GS finally does publish his work, I sincerely hope they won't have the audacity to pretend someone else put the finishing touches on it. Of course, it's entirely possible they will publish his documents after someone else hacks at it if only to show what a "terrible" job he was doing and make management seem competent.

[StrayRogue]

In the thirteen years I've known him, he's never once shown me a piece of writing that required fixing anything beyond a single typo. Seriously, do you even understand what kind of discipline this man has as a writer?



In the long ass time I've worked with real editors I can safely say no document is ever perfect.

Not that I'm suggesting that his work wasn't good; well-written prose is easier quicker and smoother to edit than dross.

But I suspect there is more going on than he is letting on.

[Warriorbird]

I have been silent because Chris wouldn't want anyone defending him but Warriorbird's comments have bothered me. I know K's side, beyond what he wrote in his rant.

I helped write the material K posted on Tehir.net. We came up with a great deal of material, some of which we never posted simply because we wanted to use it for our own characters.

He's an amazing fiction writer, a damn fine non-fiction writer and one of the best editors I ever had the opportunity to work alongside. His documents were completed. They should have zipped thru QC because he is a perfectionist and his own worst critic.

In the thirteen years I've known him, he's never once shown me a piece of writing that required fixing anything beyond a single typo. Seriously, do you even understand what kind of discipline this man has as a writer?

If GS finally does publish his work, I sincerely hope they won't have the audacity to pretend someone else put the finishing touches on it. Of course, it's entirely possible they will publish his documents after someone else hacks at it if only to show what a "terrible" job he was doing and make management seem competent.

I don't like seeing a writer that talented attempt to take out a hit on a game I still enjoy with staff members who actually follow the rules following them. I have nothing to lose. I can stand up for it. For all his talent he sure didn't.

[thefarmer]

I helped write the material K posted on Tehir.net. We came up with a great deal of material, some of which we never posted simply because we wanted to use it for our own characters.

Interesting.

Did you help him write these documents stuck in QC?

[Drew]

I have been silent because Chris wouldn't want anyone defending him but Warriorbird's comments have bothered me. I know K's side, beyond what he wrote in his rant.

I helped write the material K posted on Tehir.net. We came up with a great deal of material, some of which we never posted simply because we wanted to use it for our own characters.

He's an amazing fiction writer, a damn fine non-fiction writer and one of the best editors I ever had the opportunity to work alongside. His documents were completed. They should have zipped thru QC because he is a perfectionist and his own worst critic.

In the thirteen years I've known him, he's never once shown me a piece of writing that required fixing anything beyond a single typo. Seriously, do you even understand what kind of discipline this man has as a writer?

If GS finally does publish his work, I sincerely hope they won't have the audacity to pretend someone else put the finishing touches on it. Of course, it's entirely possible they will publish his documents after someone else hacks at it if only to show what a "terrible" job he was doing and make management seem competent.

Weren't you fired from tehir.net? The note on the site when you left made it sure seem that way.

Anyway, I definitely think being a GM is not for really creative people. Probably the best GMs are those who are regimented and work will within the hierarchy. You'll notice that the GMs who get the most done are almost never very creative, they just copy things from another game/book/anime and slightly rename stuff. GS has a way of soul-crushing the truly original minds out there.

[Androidpk]

The game is run by Mormons, what do you expect.

[AnticorRifling]

My ex worked for them for several years.

So none.

[Ceyrin]

Warriorbird's idea of Simu...?

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_llga68gNiL1qkrri2o1_500.jpg

[AnticorRifling]

I would watch whatever movie that is going to be.

[Warriorbird]

So none.

Absolutely none. I didn't have to live with the actuality of being involved with a GM every day. She probably spent 40 hours a week while we were married. While I don't know whether it happened with K I did a fair amount of work for her while she was GM as well.


Warriorbird's idea of Simu...?

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_llga68gNiL1qkrri2o1_500.jpg

Yeah right Karen. Trust me, I've seen both sides. Those of you hyper obsessed with one here probably haven't noted how much I've called stuff like I've seen it. This is just a case with a whole lot of shady on his side that's getting dismissed in the "Must bash Simu" category. As I've said before, you don't get fired from being a GM for no reason.

[Atlanteax]

Anyway, I definitely think being a GM is not for really creative people. Probably the best GMs are those who are regimented and work will within the hierarchy. You'll notice that the GMs who get the most done are almost never very creative, they just copy things from another game/book/anime and slightly rename stuff. GS has a way of soul-crushing the truly original minds out there.

Bolded for emphasis.

GS needs creative GMs but ironically (or perhaps not so ironic) the horrid management essentially squashes any inspiration or application of creativity.

The "idea" GM for the existing management structure is a yes-man drone who is undeterred by endless down-time and snail-paced implementation of any attempted modifications to the game.

[AnticorRifling]

Absolutely none. Correct. The question is what experience do you have working for Simu, not what experience do you have being married to someone working for Simu.

I'm married to a teacher, that doesn't mean I've worked for a school.

[Warriorbird]

Bolded for emphasis.

GS needs creative GMs but ironically (or perhaps not so ironic) the horrid management essentially squashes any inspiration or application of creativity.

The "idea" GM for the existing management structure is a yes-man drone who is undeterred by endless down-time and snail-paced implementation of any attempted modifications to the game.

Didn't you get booted for unapproved yet awesome invasions? Or was that your old partner in crime with the Fury? I'd understand where your sympathies lie, given that.

[Warriorbird]

Correct. The question is what experience do you have working for Simu, not what experience do you have being married to someone working for Simu.

I'm married to a teacher, that doesn't mean I've worked for a school.

Yet I'd say you're more qualified to understand the pressures a teacher lives under and the politics of your local school system than the average member of the PTA...

[Ceyrin]

Yeah right Karen. Trust me, I've seen both sides. Those of you hyper obsessed with one here probably haven't noted how much I've called stuff like I've seen it. This is just a case with a whole lot of shady on his side that's getting dismissed in the "Must bash Simu" category. As I've said before, you don't get fired from being a GM for no reason.

So... I don't know who Karen is... but maybe you didn't get the picture. It's predictable I suppose. You don't really seem to have gotten most of this thread.

http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/One_924885_78307.gif

[Warriorbird]

So... I don't know who Karen is... but maybe you didn't get the picture. It's predictable I suppose. You don't really seem to have gotten most of this thread.

http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/One_924885_78307.gif

Just like you haven't seem to have put together that people might actually get fired for reasons and you're being manipulated by yes, indeed, a skilled writer who's appealing to issues you might already have to act like he had no problems and he was just sort of randomly fired.

[Androidpk]

If upper management at Simutronics is so bad, which I agree it is, why hasn't it been removed yet, French revolution style.

[Tgo01]

Just like you haven't seem to have put together that people might actually get fired for reasons and you're being manipulated by yes, indeed, a skilled writer who's appealing to issues you might already have to act like he had no problems and he was just sort of randomly fired.

Isn't that an awfully flimsy argument to make? "People don't get fired for no reason therefore Simutronics did the right thing."

[Ceyrin]

Just like you haven't seem to have put together that people might actually get fired for reasons and you're being manipulated by yes, indeed, a skilled writer who's appealing to issues you might already have to act like he had no problems and he was just sort of randomly fired.

You've assumed twice now I'm on one side of this or the other. Maybe I'm just trolling you because you're obviously obsessed with winning this thread.

Good luck with that.

[Sylvan Dreams]

If upper management at Simutronics is so bad, which I agree it is, why hasn't it been removed yet, French revolution style.

Removed by whom? As long as the guys way at the top think their underlings are doing a fine job - regardless if that's the truth or not - they keep their jobs. Whoever is way at the top doesn't really care about GS - as is evidenced by their lack of presence anywhere where the general population can take note.

I dont think K has once bashed the game in his post, regardless of how much WB insists otherwise. He doesn't say "GS sucks and you shouldn't play it!" or anything ABOUT THE GAME ITSELF. He complained about management. You know what does speak volumes about how great the game is? The numbers. The numbers of players actively logging in during "peak" hours.

And whoever negative repped me with "You too! Totally right." - you're a douchebag. WTF does that even mean? I haven't neg repped anyone in this thread!

[Tgo01]

He doesn't say "GS sucks and you shouldn't play it!" or anything ABOUT THE GAME ITSELF.


And folks, GS is far, far, worse than I’ve even mentioned here. It really isn’t worth your time or your money.


Tsoran was absolutely right about the people who manage this game and their regard for their customers, and he was absolutely right about GemStone not being worth playing or supporting anymore. The best decision Tsoran ever made regarding GemStone was to sever and leave, and now I’m following his example.

.

[Sylvan Dreams]

I stand corrected, sort of. I took that to mean about GS as in the management and the way they run the game/company, not specifically about the game itself.

Though, seriously, management aside, the game itself isn't flawless. Sure there are dozens of people who still continue to log in doesn't mean that it's still not a sinking ship.

[Atlanteax]

Ditto, I considered the comment of "Gemstone not being worth playing or supporting anymore" *as a warning* to not get too enthralled with the game or you will be ultimately let-down hard by the poor management of the game.

[Tgo01]

Ditto, I considered the comment of "Gemstone not being worth playing or supporting anymore" *as a warning* to not get too enthralled with the game or you will be ultimately let-down hard by the poor management of the game.

Maybe, but you can't really make the argument that he didn't tell anyone to not play the game while at the same time he told people to not play the game.

[Androidpk]

Removed by whom?

Removed by the people that fund the games? I know it's a lot to ask a crack head to go on strike but you know..

[Fallen]

Removed by the people that fund the games? I know it's a lot to ask a crack head to go on strike but you know..

Basically, another company would have to buy GS from Simutronics for things to change (or take over if they file for bankrupcy, etc). I don't see that as likely any time soon.

[HouseofElves]

If only the PC won the lotto.

[Rinualdo]

If only the PC won the lotto.

Why, so CRB could pocket that money as well?

[AnticorRifling]

LOL

[Ceyrin]

Why, so CRB could pocket that money as well?

http://cdn2.funnycorner.net/funny-pictures/5904/Sticky-this-thread.jpg

[Drew]

Didn't you get booted for unapproved yet awesome invasions? Or was that your old partner in crime with the Fury? I'd understand where your sympathies lie, given that.

Those were awesome invasions.

[4a6c1]

This thread is so great. Mostly because I was able to see inside WB's head without tying him to a chair. Mmmm drama.

[Warriorbird]

This thread is so great. Mostly because I was able to see inside WB's head without tying him to a chair. Mmmm drama.

Rawr.


Isn't that an awfully flimsy argument to make? "People don't get fired for no reason therefore Simutronics did the right thing."

No, considering the opposite is "I shouldn't have been fired because INSERT UNRELATED ISSUES, BASH GAME." He does an awful lot of bluster to avoid discussing the "personal issues." which seem the source of his firing.


You've assumed twice now I'm on one side of this or the other. Maybe I'm just trolling you because you're obviously obsessed with winning this thread.

Good luck with that.

I don't think I've assumed anything. But you might be so disconnected from reality (barring self involvement) that you don't even remember what you say on LNET.

[oldfart]

Read this, it is about a year old but clearly states the companies goals and positions.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/27256/HeroEngine_Developer_Simutronics_Reorganizes_Amid_ Growth.php

and read up on Hero's Journey, why its still not released and is on the backburner.

IF you look enough you will find an interview where Sumi says point blank, they have found it more economically profitable to license and sell there hero engine the continue developing there own products. They will be moving in that direction and new development has been currently stopped.

And we wonder why GS cant get any advertising or effort to expand it?

[Gelston]

I would say HJ is on the backburner because Simu sold off all rights to HeroEngine.

[oldfart]

I think the point here is, whatever there doing its not focused in the slightest way on expanding there current text based games. They are moving in a direction toward other applications.

Most of the stuff they are putting out to the public clearly states they were one of the first companies to develop successful MMORPGs, but it is all about the new ideas and moving in other directions. Some even reads like GS or DR dont even exist anymore.
A decent PR person would at least make sure a line or two was added to promote existing products. Its free promotion for what already exists during every interviews they did over the HEngine. Most of them just have some obscure reference as if they are past credits, dead and buried now.

[Gelston]

Oh it is fairly obvious they don't care much about the text games.

[Gizmo]

Oh it is fairly obvious they don't care much about the text games.

And that oldfart is just another PC's alt! DUN DUN DUN....

[Androidpk]

Oh it is fairly obvious they don't care much about the text games.

DR gets a whole lot of loving.

[Gelston]

DR gets a whole lot of loving.

Yeah, but they are still on a downward also. I mean, it would all easily be fixed with a little advertising. We've hit that issue up on the forums 43463463 times though.

[Warriorbird]

Yeah, but they are still on a downward also. I mean, it would all easily be fixed with a little advertising. We've hit that issue up on the forums 43463463 times though.

Something I can agree with totally.

1. Advertising
2. A FB frontend for GS/DR, not a game
3. A mobile frontend for GS/DR, not a game

Tons of young newbs, some who can text fast enough to handle playing GS over a smartphone, eventually becoming subscriptions. Yes please.

[Gelston]

Oh, if they were able to interface the text games with FB, it would be a big hit.

[Warriorbird]

Oh, if they were able to interface the text games with FB, it would be a big hit.

Well, I'm not sure it'd be big hit, but I think it'd likely have more staying power than Unseen University or whatever they call it.

[Misun]

I have to spread some rep around before repping Drew's avatar but screw that.

Love the avatar!

Now..back to the thread.

[Sylvan Dreams]

HE is apparently FREE to use, and they will also host your game for you, collecting a portion of your revenues.
Download the platform today


Get the HeroEngine FREE! Build any type of online game (RPG, FPS, RTS and more).
Publish your game as a stand-alone client, stream it to players or let them play it on the web.
We handle & pay for all your servers, hosting, bandwidth & 3rd party technology.
You get 70% of sales revenue. There is no cost to you, unless your game makes money.Apparently, SW:TOR is built on HE - I didn't know that. It doesn't say anywhere on their site that Simu sold all HE rights, but rather that HE split off into its own division.


http://www.heroengine.com/about/news/

[Androidpk]

Some company licensed the engine, was really impressed, bought the rights to the engine and hired the entire engine dev team.

Said company = http://ideafabrik.com/

[Kembal]

Basically, another company would have to buy GS from Simutronics for things to change (or take over if they file for bankrupcy, etc). I don't see that as likely any time soon.

Yeah, not happening. And Simu's not filing for bankruptcy either....they got their act together on their mobile game, Tiny Heroes, and it appears to be on an upward trajectory. (they made the base game free, and made all the extra levels and some bonus defenses in-app purchases. took them 6 months to figure that one out...they were charging for the base game initially.)

[oldfart]

Which just supports my point more. As much as I love GS, the questions asked in this thread were;
why is there no attention paid to how its managed? Why aren't changes being made to promote GS? Why are there so many issues over GM changes that are apparently secrets and disregard subscribers opinions?

Because they clearly stated, there in the business of selling or securing license agreements not managing in house technology through player subs.

The better question to ask would be;
Simu clearly has a plan for there future, how long do they intend to continue to support the text base games, and what will determine if and when they drop them?

[Fallen]

Agreed. I hope one day things change, but I stopped holding my breath some time ago.

[Sylvan Dreams]

Simu clearly has a plan for there future, how long do they intend to continue to support the text base games, and what will determine if and when they drop them?

The games won't likely be dropped until ALL of them have a minimal log in population. Look at MO, AOH and CS - does anyone even have active accounts in those games anymore? I remember giving MO a try in the 90's and there was pretty much no one in it, and that was during the peak of the Simu games. Imagine now.

[Latrinsorm]

Well, I'm not sure it'd be big hit, but I think it'd likely have more staying power than Unseen University or whatever they call it.Pratchetted.
HE is apparently FREE to use, and they will also host your game for you, collecting a portion of your revenues.
Download the platform today


Get the HeroEngine FREE! Build any type of online game (RPG, FPS, RTS and more).
Publish your game as a stand-alone client, stream it to players or let them play it on the web.
We handle & pay for all your servers, hosting, bandwidth & 3rd party technology.
You get 70% of sales revenue. There is no cost to you, unless your game makes money.Apparently, SW:TOR is built on HE - I didn't know that. It doesn't say anywhere on their site that Simu sold all HE rights, but rather that HE split off into its own division.


http://www.heroengine.com/about/news/Could Simutronics really handle providing servers and bandwidth? The robot must be correct.

[Gelston]

Apparently, SW:TOR is built on HE - I didn't know that. It doesn't say anywhere on their site that Simu sold all HE rights, but rather that HE split off into its own division.



http://ideafabrik.com/2010/06/idea-fabrik-plc-purchases-heroengine-technologies/

Idea Fabrik purchased HeroEngine and all related technologies.

http://www.heroengine.com/about/about-heroengine/

Even there is says... In 2010 HeroEngine was acquired by Idea Fabrik Plc (http://www.ideafabrik.com/).

[Ceyrin]

Wow, Warriorbird stopped posting. I guess she must've won. Good for her.

[kookiegod]

After reading all this...

tl;dr opinion

Useless.

You don't know the story, I don't and I talk to a ton of people. Simutronics is a unique company with good and bad, and some very inspired and creative people in the past and present, and Sirina is good people.

~Paul

[AnticorRifling]

Any company that has business people and creative people is going to have drama. You need business people to run a business, you have to think business. If your product is creative you need creative people. Oil, water, and sometimes the occasional jello shot.

[Warriorbird]

Any company that has business people and creative people is going to have drama. You need business people to run a business, you have to think business. If your product is creative you need creative people. Oil, water, and sometimes the occasional jello shot.

Quite accurate. People feel an added stake in Simutronics too.

Also lol Ceyrin.

[AnticorRifling]

Any company that has business people and creative people is going to have drama. You need business people to run a business, you have to think business. If your product is creative you need creative people. Oil, water, and sometimes the occasional jello shot.

LOL @ this negative rep to my above post:




Because anyone creative HAS to be a drama queen? Let me guess, with a statement like that you must be an engineer. See what I did there?

Way to fucking WOOOOSH the point. No where in the above statement did I say that creative people were drama queens. I said when you mix business people and creative people there is going to be drama. Which side creates it? DERP DERP both.

[DaCapn]

Way to fucking WOOOOSH the point. No where in the above statement did I say that creative people were drama queens. I said when you mix business people and creative people there is going to be drama. Which side creates it? DERP DERP both.

I think you staged that rep to reinforce your point.

[AnticorRifling]

I think you staged that rep to reinforce your point.

I wish. I like how they didn't sign it too, always makes for an extra laugh.

[Gizmo]

I wish. I like how they didn't sign it too, always makes for an extra laugh.

Everyone signs their rep they leave me, so I get no laughs :(

[SHAFT]

I'm still amazed simu created the HE and is attached to something as big as SWTOR. Good for them though.

[Paradii]

After reading all this...

tl;dr opinion

Useless.

You don't know the story, I don't and I talk to a ton of people. Simutronics is a unique company with good and bad, and some very inspired and creative people in the past and present, and Sirina is good people.

~Paul

Did you mean to say this instead?

"All your opinions are useless!

Here is my useless opinion!

~Paul"

[Asha]

If they shut the game down before I cap my ranger I will literally flip out.
I wanted to cap one of each. Pure, semi and square.

It'd be like a failed sneeze. Unresolved and grating :(