Move to Greece, become a pedophile, profit?

[Liagala]

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/furor-greece-pedophilia-disability-15323309#.TwudYPkVc9u

Greek disability groups expressed anger Monday at a government decision to expand a list of state-recognized disability categories to include pedophiles, exhibitionists and kleptomaniacs.

The National Confederation of Disabled People called the action "incomprehensible," and said pedophiles are now awarded a higher government disability pay than some people who have received organ transplants.

The Labor Ministry said categories added to the expanded list — that also includes pyromaniacs, compulsive gamblers, fetishists and sadomasochists — were included for purposes of medical assessment and used as a gauge for allocating financial assistance.

But NCDP leader Yiannis Vardakastanis, who is blind, warned the new list could create new difficulties for disabled Greeks who are already facing benefit cuts due to the country's financial crisis.




"What's happened is incomprehensible. I think there is some big mistake. The ministry should have a different policy on disability," Vardakastanis told the Associated Press. "The list contains major changes to disability quotients, which could effectively remove many people from access to benefits."

The new list gives pyromaniacs and pedophiles disability pay up to 35 percent, compared to 80 percent for heart transplant recipients.

"It's really not serious to grant Peeping Toms a 20-30 percent disability rate, and 10 percent to diabetics, who have insulin shots four or five times a day," said Vardakastanis.

Greece has been fighting to avoid bankruptcy since 2009. Public spending on health and welfare programs has been sharply cut under austerity measures imposed as a condition for receiving emergency loans from the International Monetary Fund and other countries using the euro currency.

Independently run welfare programs that survived on state grants have been the hardest hit, leaving some disabled groups, including the deaf, facing sudden drops in their standard of care.

The government is also battling widespread abuse in the welfare system, forcing tens of thousands of disabled people to be reassessed.

[Atlanteax]

The sad thing is that I can see that happening in the U.S. too, with the liberal coddling syndrome.

"Oh, you set that building on fire because you are a pyromanic? Oh you poor thing... how about we pay you to not set things on fire? :)"

[Atlanteax]

Oh, no wonder the Church gets "special status" ... all those fondle-happy priests are just disabled people who needs our help!

[Latrinsorm]

Obviously the first reaction is revulsion. With that out of the way, let us be reasonable.

Is there scientific research that pyromania et al can be compulsive? If so, wouldn't we rather these people be treated and rehabilitated ASAP? If so, aren't they necessarily at a disadvantage for getting and keeping a job? No police force is going to prevent every arson, after all, and an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Would you rather have an untreated pedophile that you don't know is around your kids or a treated pedophile that you know about and can therefore avoid (if necessary)? How much would you pay to have the second option rather than the first?

How seriously should we take Mr. Vardakastanis, an openly blind "person"?

[Keller]

We need Mars to become the new Australia.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Would you rather have an untreated pedophile that you don't know is around your kids or a treated pedophile that you know about and can therefore avoid (if necessary)? How much would you pay to have the second option rather than the first?

Are you advocating that known pedophiles get a tattoo of a serial number on their forearms so we can easily identify them in public?

I think the uproar is that people who are on entitlement programs feel there are various levels of entitlement, and that convicted criminals should be lower in the benefit structure than others.

[Keller]

Are you advocating that known pedophiles get a tattoo of a serial number on their forearms so we can easily identify them in public?

I think the uproar is that people who are on entitlement programs feel there are various levels of entitlement, and that convicted criminals should be lower in the benefit structure than others.

If I were homeless, I'd find the hottest 17 year old I could, have surprise sex with her, and enjoy my new treatment facility.

[Atlanteax]

Obviously the first reaction is revulsion. With that out of the way, let us be reasonable.

Is there scientific research that pyromania et al can be compulsive? If so, wouldn't we rather these people be treated and rehabilitated ASAP? If so, aren't they necessarily at a disadvantage for getting and keeping a job? No police force is going to prevent every arson, after all, and an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Would you rather have an untreated pedophile that you don't know is around your kids or a treated pedophile that you know about and can therefore avoid (if necessary)? How much would you pay to have the second option rather than the first?

How seriously should we take Mr. Vardakastanis, an openly blind "person"?

A treated pedophile is too expensive of a burden on society (including the costs of ensuring the treatment "holds").

"Housing" an untreated pedophile in an incarnation system is also too expensive of a burden on society.

Keller was possibly being sarcastic, but it probably would be more cost-effective to just ship them out to somewhere they cannot leave (ie Australia at the time), and poof, the problem is off society's books.

So pyromanics, pedophiles, serial rapists, etc ... convicted by a trial involving their peers with the selected "punishment" and then just sent away.

Use the resources that would otherwise be *wasted* on them to improve the lives of the rest of the community.

Pre-20th century, such individuals would be essentially either "dealt with" or were collectively shunned by the rest of the community that they would not survive very long.

I'm not sure why there is a compelling "need" to "save" human beings that otherwise would be a significant detraction from the community's well-being.

[Liagala]

Are you going to send gamblers, fetishists, and sadomasochists to Mars too? They're in the list of "disabled" people in the article, right next to pedophiles and pyromaniacs. Spend too much in Vegas or get a little too kinky in the bedroom? Off to the prison planet with you! Gamblers are obviously no better than pedophiles anyway, right? I'm not even going to get into the bit about innocent people being convicted. I'm sure you're smart enough to recognize that gaping chasm in your argument for yourself.

[Keller]

Are you going to send gamblers, fetishists, and sadomasochists to Mars too? They're in the list of "disabled" people in the article, right next to pedophiles and pyromaniacs. Spend too much in Vegas or get a little too kinky in the bedroom? Off to the prison planet with you! Gamblers are obviously no better than pedophiles anyway, right? I'm not even going to get into the bit about innocent people being convicted. I'm sure you're smart enough to recognize that gaping chasm in your argument for yourself.

http://alltheragefaces.com/img/faces/jpg/fuck-that-bitch-yao-ming.jpg

[Tsa`ah]

Are you advocating that known pedophiles get a tattoo of a serial number on their forearms so we can easily identify them in public?

I think the uproar is that people who are on entitlement programs feel there are various levels of entitlement, and that convicted criminals should be lower in the benefit structure than others.

I think that would be an over board use of hyperbole.

Known doesn't necessarily mean known to the general public ... but rather known to the necessary agencies.

I think some of the listed disabilities are a bit of a stretch, but I'd rather pedophiles seek help before they become child molesters than take the wait and see approach.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I think that would be an over board use of hyperbole.

Known doesn't necessarily mean known to the general public ... but rather known to the necessary agencies.

Given his statement was that they were known and you could avoid them if necessary, I wouldn't say it was overboard at all. I also wouldn't say it wasn't know to the general public, else how would they avoid them if necessary?

[AnticorRifling]

A treated pedophile is too expensive of a burden on society (including the costs of ensuring the treatment "holds").

"Housing" an untreated pedophile in an incarnation system is also too expensive of a burden on society.

Keller was possibly being sarcastic, but it probably would be more cost-effective to just ship them out to somewhere they cannot leave (ie Australia at the time), and poof, the problem is off society's books.

So pyromanics, pedophiles, serial rapists, etc ... convicted by a trial involving their peers with the selected "punishment" and then just sent away.

Use the resources that would otherwise be *wasted* on them to improve the lives of the rest of the community.

Pre-20th century, such individuals would be essentially either "dealt with" or were collectively shunned by the rest of the community that they would not survive very long.

I'm not sure why there is a compelling "need" to "save" human beings that otherwise would be a significant detraction from the community's well-being.

We could also make a TV show where those people tried to compete for their freedom.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

We could also make a TV show where those people tried to compete for their freedom.

Hmm... sounds good, until you figure out that you'll be letting the "best" pedophile free after he beats all the others...

[Latrinsorm]

Are you advocating that known pedophiles get a tattoo of a serial number on their forearms so we can easily identify them in public?No that would be too reminiscent of what the Nazis did ohhhhh wait a minute.

The public sex offender registry hasn't led to any Kristallnachts to my knowledge. This program could mimic that one.
I think the uproar is that people who are on entitlement programs feel there are various levels of entitlement, and that convicted criminals should be lower in the benefit structure than others.I didn't really get that part of the article. It said that criminals were higher, but it also said they only got 30% disability as opposed to 80% for heart transplant recipients (those moochers), so... I didn't really get it.
Hmm... sounds good, until you figure out that you'll be letting the "best" pedophile free after he beats all the others...Only if they get past Fireball.

[TheEschaton]

Sometimes, I wonder if Atlanteax is serious. I think that bad tie is choking off his air supply.

(Now I'm thinking about Air Supply. Damn it.)

[subzero]

Hmm... sounds good, until you figure out that you'll be letting the "best" pedophile free after he beats all the others...

Competing for freedom != obtaining freedom.

[Ashlander]

Hmm... sounds good, until you figure out that you'll be letting the "best" pedophile free after he beats all the others...

That's why you go the Running Man route by killing off the winner and telling future contestants that they're living on a tropical island surrounded by all the little children they could want.

[Atlanteax]

No that would be too reminiscent of what the Nazis did ohhhhh wait a minute.

The public sex offender registry hasn't led to any Kristallnachts to my knowledge. This program could mimic that one.I didn't really get that part of the article. It said that criminals were higher, but it also said they only got 30% disability as opposed to 80% for heart transplant recipients (those moochers), so... I didn't really get it.Only if they get past Fireball.

I think the issue here is that the criminals are getting any sort of disability at ALL ... that 30% should be *ZERO*.

Save the money for those law-abiding and need it (ie blind or paraplegic).

It is an insult to the later that the (wasteful spending) government would deign to give criminals disability welfare.

[Atlanteax]

Okay not exactly related, but shows the power of community enforcement of social principals...

http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/11/us/california-father-tour-boat/index.html

Okay, so a (drunk) father (Briles) throws his crying 7-yrs off the boat...


"And he hits the kid a couple of times," Amormino said. "The boy is crying. He picks him up and throws him overboard. They are in the middle of a harbor, and there is a lot of boat traffic."

Community does the good deed thing:

"But luckily, three boats saw the kid and converged on him, and plucked him from the water," Amormino said.

Community does the negative enforcement of undesired behavior:

Briles jumped into the water subsequently "to avoid the angry passengers on the Queen," the district attorney's office said. There were 85 people on the tour boat.

Personally I think it was awesome how the douchebag was chased off the boat...

[AnticorRifling]

I think the issue here is that the criminals are getting any sort of disability at ALL ... that 30% should be *ZERO*.

Save the money for those law-abiding and need it (ie blind or paraplegic).

It is an insult to the later that the (wasteful spending) government would deign to give criminals disability welfare.

I wasn't aware that you lead a flawless life and were free of mistakes. Thank you for blessing our boards Jesus.

A death sentence is a death sentence, making a mistake isn't a death sentence.

Do I think being a pedo/pyro/klepto/bronie = being disabled? No

Do I think being a criminal that is also disabled = not having access to proper care? No

[AnticorRifling]

Okay not exactly related, but shows the power of community enforcement of social principals...

http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/11/us/california-father-tour-boat/index.html

Okay, so a (drunk) father (Briles) throws his crying 7-yrs off the boat...



Community does the good deed thing:


Community does the negative enforcement of undesired behavior:


Personally I think it was awesome how the douchebag was chased off the boat...

By not exactly related did you mean not related at all?

[Latrinsorm]

I think the issue here is that the criminals are getting any sort of disability at ALL ... that 30% should be *ZERO*.

Save the money for those law-abiding and need it (ie blind or paraplegic).

It is an insult to the later that the (wasteful spending) government would deign to give criminals disability welfare.If the program proactively identifies and treats pedophiles before they molest children, I just don't give a fuck who it insults. Use your head here, man. If we implement your program of deportation and life imprisonment, who's going to voluntarily come forward as a pedophile? They're going to try and fail to control their pedophilia, children will be molested, and only after will the justice system come into play. You think a violated child's life is fixed by sending the pedophile to Australia?

[Rinualdo]

If the program proactively identifies and treats pedophiles before they molest children, I just don't give a fuck who it insults. Use your head here, man. If we implement your program of deportation and life imprisonment, who's going to voluntarily come forward as a pedophile? They're going to try and fail to control their pedophilia, children will be molested, and only after will the justice system come into play. You think a violated child's life is fixed by sending the pedophile to Australia?

+1 for the Australia reference.

[Tgo01]

If the program proactively identifies and treats pedophiles before they molest children, I just don't give a fuck who it insults.

It's one thing to recognize pedophilia as a medical condition and treat people for it (is there such a thing?) but why are they receiving disability pay? I thought disability pay was if your disability affected your ability to get or hold a job. How does being a pedophile affect your ability to get a job? I can understand the obvious ones like leaving a pedophile in charge of young kids but there are lots of other kinds of jobs out there.

[Asha]

The legal age of consent for sex isn't 16 in the US?

[TheEschaton]

No, 18 (ETA: in most states).

[Tgo01]

Actually I think most states is 16. Only stuck up states have it set to 18.

[Gelston]

No, 18 (ETA: in most states).

The most common age of consent in the US is 16, at 29 states(including D.C.), 12 states have it at 18, and 10 states have it at 17.

Federal Law sets the age at 18 for using the postal service or other media to to entice a minor to have sex. Same for transporting across state lines.

http://www.age-of-consent.info/

[Asha]

I see, thanks.

[Nieninque]

I love that Australia is still happy to have all these paedophiles sent to them. Last I heard, they were only after Plumbers, nurses and other skilled workers.

[Liagala]

I love that Australia is still happy to have all these paedophiles sent to them. Last I heard, they were only after Plumbers, nurses and other skilled workers.
Unfortunately, those are not mutually exclusive. It would certainly make them easier to pull out of a crowd if all pedophiles were also unemployed bums with no skills.

I just don't give a fuck who it insults.
Wow. We finally found a discussion that made Latrin say this. I wasn't sure that was possible. Pretty impressive.

[Latrinsorm]

It's one thing to recognize pedophilia as a medical condition and treat people for it (is there such a thing?) but why are they receiving disability pay? I thought disability pay was if your disability affected your ability to get or hold a job. How does being a pedophile affect your ability to get a job? I can understand the obvious ones like leaving a pedophile in charge of young kids but there are lots of other kinds of jobs out there.I mean, can you think of a worse thing to admit to from a social stigma perspective? People are hired by people, not robots.
Wow. We finally found a discussion that made Latrin say this. I wasn't sure that was possible. Pretty impressive.It is very frustrating to me. As a country we wait for pedophiles to act, then tolerate (and even glorify!) extrajudicial prison rape. At even the suggestion of a proactive solution, people like Atlanteax want to talk about liberal coddling and insults, as if those were anywhere near as important as preventing child molestation.

[Nieninque]

Unfortunately, those are not mutually exclusive. It would certainly make them easier to pull out of a crowd if all pedophiles were also unemployed bums with no skills.

Whoosh?

[Tgo01]

I mean, can you think of a worse thing to admit to from a social stigma perspective? People are hired by people, not robots.

A few things about this. First of all do we pay people disability based on an actual difficulty in obtaining a job or a perceived difficulty in obtaining a job? If a black man hasn't been able to find work in 3 years can he claim no one is hiring black men therefore he is eligible for disability pay?

Secondly why would anyone have to admit who they are sexually attracted to in order to obtain a job? Do I have to admit I am attracted to big breasted red heads to the big breasted red head who is interviewing me, just in case it might make her uncomfortable? Do homosexual men have to admit they are attracted to other men?

Lastly if pedophilia is classified as a medical condition then why would someone need to tell their potential employer of a medical condition that has nothing to do with their job duties? Does someone have to admit they are a diabetic? Does someone have to admit they are unable to lift more than 20 pounds due to a medical condition if their job doesn't require any lifting?

[Atlanteax]

Whatever happened to pedophiles being considered a blight upon society?

[Latrinsorm]

A few things about this. First of all do we pay people disability based on an actual difficulty in obtaining a job or a perceived difficulty in obtaining a job? If a black man hasn't been able to find work in 3 years can he claim no one is hiring black men therefore he is eligible for disability pay?

Secondly why would anyone have to admit who they are sexually attracted to in order to obtain a job? Do I have to admit I am attracted to big breasted red heads to the big breasted red head who is interviewing me, just in case it might make her uncomfortable? Do homosexual men have to admit they are attracted to other men?

Lastly if pedophilia is classified as a medical condition then why would someone need to tell their potential employer of a medical condition that has nothing to do with their job duties? Does someone have to admit they are a diabetic? Does someone have to admit they are unable to lift more than 20 pounds due to a medical condition if their job doesn't require any lifting?It took me 10 seconds to google "sex offender registry" and get a national database. It stands to reason that the hypothetical people-receiving-treatment-for-pedophilia registry would be just as easily accessible. What people volunteer in an interview is one thing, what prospective employers can easily find out also has to be considered.
Whatever happened to pedophiles being considered a blight upon society?It didn't eliminate pedophilia. The goal is to prevent and eliminate pedophilia, period.

[Tgo01]

Well now I'm confused. We should classify pedophilia as a medical condition and we should have a national registry for pedophiles? Even ones who haven't been convicted of any crime?

[Latrinsorm]

Well now I'm confused. We should classify pedophilia as a medical condition and we should have a national registry for pedophiles? Even ones who haven't been convicted of any crime?Sure. The whole point is to get them under control before they commit a crime.

[Gelston]

And still, who the hell is going to pop out and say "Hey, I could be a pedophile one day." If I was a homeless dude living in the street, I'd certainly come out of the woodwork and claim it so I can get some disability money for my booze. It wouldn't work, unless we had some sort of magical device that can see people's thoughts.

Oh, and they would still be looked down upon and fucked with by all of society, because they ARE a blight upon society in this day and age. And I think it should be a question allowed to be asked aswell. Do you want a confessed prepedophile to work at a daycare or as an elementary school teacher or even a janitor? Fuck no.

[Tgo01]

Sure. The whole point is to get them under control before they commit a crime.

So to treat them for their medical condition we put them on a national registry that anyone can access that names them as a pedophile, possibly ostracizing them from their family and friends and make it difficult for them to get a job and possibly even renting an apartment? Doesn't sound so much as treatment as it does punishing them for seeking help.

[Latrinsorm]

So to treat them for their medical condition we put them on a national registry that anyone can access that names them as a pedophile, possibly ostracizing them from their family and friends and make it difficult for them to get a job and possibly even renting an apartment? Doesn't sound so much as treatment as it does punishing them for seeking help.Let's be clear, there's nothing "possible" about it. They will absolutely be ostracized. The point is that being secretive about receiving treatment isn't going to help, because people are going to find out anyway. What you're banking on is that pedophiles don't inherently want to hurt children, and if you catch them early enough they can still recognize that their sexual attraction will inevitably lead to exactly that, and that eventually you change the culture of ostracism.

Look at mental illness: if a person says they are being treated for schizophrenia and someone makes a big stink about it, don't we think that someone is being a prick? This is a recent development. We used to follow the Atlanteax strategy: throw schizophrenics in prison, subject them to deplorable conditions, at times actively mutilate and torture them, and feel good about ourselves. That didn't work, so we tried something better. Now people who would have been entirely written off as at best useless and at worst dangerous contribute to society every day.
And still, who the hell is going to pop out and say "Hey, I could be a pedophile one day." If I was a homeless dude living in the street, I'd certainly come out of the woodwork and claim it so I can get some disability money for my booze. It wouldn't work, unless we had some sort of magical device that can see people's thoughts.To clarify the terminology I'm using: pedophile is what a person is, not what a person does. Child molesters are pedophiles, pedophiles are not yet child molesters. Humans are really bad at keeping their sexual urges in check on their own, and humans are great at coming up with excuses for what they want to do. You can get confrontational and threaten, but that doesn't work all that well either, as is demonstrated by child molestation still occurring all over the United States. How many times do you have to try and fail the same way before you're willing to try something new?

[Gelston]

You say that, but how will the be treated any better if they come forward? Look at this thread itself, we even use the term pedophile and child molester interchangeably. Think about that. And what sane person would want that sort of thing on their record? No one.

As I said, if they gave money for it, bums would all be pedophiles.

Everyone wants something to blame these days when they don't have the ability to control themselves. Perhaps people should man the fuck up and stop trying to blame anything other than themselves. That will never happen though. People will still kill. People will still rape. People will still gamble. People will still eat to the point of exploding.

[Tgo01]

Let's be clear, there's nothing "possible" about it. They will absolutely be ostracized. The point is that being secretive about receiving treatment isn't going to help, because people are going to find out anyway. What you're banking on is that pedophiles don't inherently want to hurt children, and if you catch them early enough they can still recognize that their sexual attraction will inevitably lead to exactly that, and that eventually you change the culture of ostracism.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree then. I can buy into the argument that some pedophiles realize being attracted to children is bad and want to seek help (let's face it though some of them don't give a shit about the children they hurt and those people deserve harsh prison sentences.) I just don't buy into the argument that the best way to treat them is to make their pedophilia public knowledge and give them disability pay.

[Gelston]

And to be clear, I'm not against trying to stop people BEFORE they commit crimes. I just don't see it as viable given the human condition.

Until we invent this:

http://www.jonathanrosenbaum.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/minority-report.jpg

[Stanley Burrell]

but why are they receiving disability pay?

Hip replacement?



Child obesity +

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/67/Herbert_-_Family_Guy.png

[Atlanteax]

I saw the whole thing as this:

XXX government has $1 million budgeted to spend on the disabled
Government spending was axed, so it is now $500k budgetted

Government then decides to a) *further cut assistance* to the blind / paraplegic / etc... to b) provide $$ for pedophiles

I'd argue that pedophiles & etc should get $ZERO, with the full allocation going to the blind / paraplegic who are already seeing an assistance cut.

Furthermore, expanding the definition to justify resources being spent on pedophiles/etc is *wasteful spending*.

[Latrinsorm]

You say that, but how will the be treated any better if they come forward? Look at this thread itself, we even use the term pedophile and child molester interchangeably. Think about that. And what sane person would want that sort of thing on their record? No one.The key is that pedophiles don't inherently want to hurt children. If you give them a way out, they'll take it. "Getting beaten and raped in prison" isn't a way out. Put yourself in their place. They are, after all, people.
As I said, if they gave money for it, bums would all be pedophiles.I don't find this too convincing. There are already plenty of mental issues someone could claim, if it was so easy why aren't they doing that already? And even if they did, I consider it a worthwhile cost if the primary goal of the system is met. I can accept as a taxpayer that greater security can require greater payment.
Everyone wants something to blame these days when they don't have the ability to control themselves. Perhaps people should man the fuck up and stop trying to blame anything other than themselves. That will never happen though. People will still kill. People will still rape. People will still gamble. People will still eat to the point of exploding.I'm not concerned with blame. My only concern is prevention. Who si at fault is a distraction.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree then.I don't agree to that. -Skinner
I just don't buy into the argument that the best way to treat them is to make their pedophilia public knowledge and give them disability pay.There would also be some form of psychiatric treatment involved. Otherwise it would be pretty pointless, yes.

[Tgo01]

There would also be some form of psychiatric treatment involved.

Why isn't that enough?

[Gelston]

Comes down to this, what skilled working person would want to have the stigma of being a certified, treated, pedophile? It doesn't matter if they have ever molested a child or not. That word alone is enough to condemn someone. My reasoning for saying bums, is because the only people that would come forward and say they are pedophiles are people that don't have a reason not to.

I'd say the BEST and ONLY way to do this would be to NOT offer them money, but instead set up anonymous helplines and online chatrooms/forums. If they truly want to seek help for their mental state and not rape children, they'll be all over that phone number. I believe things should be stopped before they start, but I also believe people should do things for themselves. The reward should not be recieving free money from the Government, but rather, the reward of not harming fellow huma beings.

Also, under this, people who DID molest children and are pedophiles will also recieve money right? Stupid.

But on that thought, I've gotten so pissed off before I've wanted to murder someone. Can I get free money too? I also feel the need to constantly break the speed limit. I need mental help, and free money. Thank you.

[Latrinsorm]

Why isn't that enough?Because it's never going to be effective for 100% of participants. Even more than in a general case, we should use all the tools at our disposal to combat this problem.
Comes down to this, what skilled working person would want to have the stigma of being a certified, treated, pedophile?What skilled working person would want to hurt children? People will do something they'd prefer not to if the alternative is worse.
I believe things should be stopped before they start, but I also believe people should do things for themselves.Do you apply this reasoning to schizophrenics?
Also, under this, people who DID molest children and are pedophiles will also recieve money right? Stupid.Do you know the rate of recidivism for child molesters under the current system? It is not 0%, therefore we have to do better. I am willing to trade how pleased you are with the justice system for the prospect of less children molested.

[Gelston]

You are stuck thinking about the theory of the idea and not the practical aspects of it and how people will act about it. People generally think of themselves first. They aren't going to risk their career with a pedophile stamp. Simple as that.

[Latrinsorm]

People generally do, yes. One exception that can cause people to be unusually unselfish is children. There's a reason for the hysterical "won't someone think of the children?" from the Simpsons, or why politicians talk about crime the way they do: I'll bet you can remember a politician talking about keeping children safe, and that you can't remember a politician talking about keeping uncles safe. People are more willing to go the extra mile for kids even when the concerns are vague and abstract. It stands to reason that when the concern is "being raped", people are even more willing to risk things like "a career". Most people don't have a single career in their life these days anyway.

[Tgo01]

Because it's never going to be effective for 100% of participants. Even more than in a general case, we should use all the tools at our disposal to combat this problem.

Now this is the part where your argument doesn't make any sense. How is telling the world this person is a pedophile and giving them disability pay a 'tool' to help them get better?

Is your idea that if we work to take the stigmas out of being a pedophile that someday people will be more willing to come forward as a pedophile and seek help? That is certainly a noble goal but is it really up to the government to decide what medical conditions can be made public knowledge and which ones can't?

[Latrinsorm]

Now this is the part where your argument doesn't make any sense. How is telling the world this person is a pedophile and giving them disability pay a 'tool' to help them get better?It won't. The idea was that if we can't help an individual pedophile get better, we can still take measures to protect society from him or her. The primary objective isn't helping pedophiles get better, the primary objective is preventing child molestation.
Is your idea that if we work to take the stigmas out of being a pedophile that someday people will be more willing to come forward as a pedophile and seek help? That is certainly a noble goal but is it really up to the government to decide what medical conditions can be made public knowledge and which ones can't?It's up to the government to ensure our rights and provide security. It can't incarcerate someone who hasn't committed a crime, but it has an obligation to let the public know if a person is dangerous.

Working to take out the stigmas is not the aim. The aim is give pedophiles a safety net so that they have less incentive to hide. Once people see for themselves that treated pedophiles behave properly, then the stigmas will wither over time on their own.

[Tgo01]

The primary objective isn't helping pedophiles get better, the primary objective is preventing child molestation.It's up to the government to ensure our rights and provide security.

Why would pedophiles come forward in such a scenario? Even if pedophiles could be 'cured' or at least trained to keep their desires in check they will forever be viewed as a pedophile because their name was on a list. They can take the person's name off the list, they can have experts come forward and say the person is no longer a danger to society but let's face it, they were on a list that classified them as a pedophile and in this internet age that will be something that can be easily looked up. Who would seek help if these were the conditions set forth?


Once people see for themselves that treated pedophiles behave properly, then the stigmas will wither over time on their own.

And what about the ones that can't be cured or refuse to take accept the treatment? The stigmas will always be around and people won't learn to separate the treated ones from the non treated ones.

[Keller]

I am shocked this thread has 55 posts.

Some of y'all are getting trolled hard by Latrin.

[Tgo01]

He's doing a piss poor job of trolling then.

Or are you trolling now? Is everyone trolling everyone?

[Latrinsorm]

Why would pedophiles come forward in such a scenario? Even if pedophiles could be 'cured' or at least trained to keep their desires in check they will forever be viewed as a pedophile because their name was on a list. They can take the person's name off the list, they can have experts come forward and say the person is no longer a danger to society but let's face it, they were on a list that classified them as a pedophile and in this internet age that will be something that can be easily looked up. Who would seek help if these were the conditions set forth?If they can't find employment due to being on or having been on the list, they get disability. You ask who, I ask you: if your only choices were keep your job and probably molest children or have some financial security and probably not molest children, which would you choose?
And what about the ones that can't be cured or refuse to take accept the treatment? The stigmas will always be around and people won't learn to separate the treated ones from the non treated ones.You say the stigmas will always be around, but the history of stigmas suggests otherwise. The ones who refuse treatment are a danger to themselves and others, so the government puts additional effort into public security.