Perfect vs Non Perfect

[tallkris3]

Assuming you have two weapons one is a perfectly forged weapon, and the other is a standard stock weapon. Neither have any abilities (outside of the natural bonuses of the perfect forging), same weight and you typically do not have problems with AS.

How many higher enchants would the stock weapon have to be over the perfect weapon before you would use it over the perfect?

Considering the perfect has a +3 AVD that makes up for 1 enchant worth... is 2 enchants more enough? 3? 4?

Always wondered the break even point and wasn't sure if anyone had run any numbers.

[Ralimar]

This thread piqued my own interest about the benefit of perfect weapons, particularly about the bonus to Damage Factors. I did a bit of very simple math, wondering if you disregarded the AvD bonus of a perfect weapon, the benefits would become much more obvious if you're using a weapon with a low natural DF.

For two examples vs leather armor:
A stock dagger has a DF of .200
A perfect dagger has a DF of .212
This makes it .002 DF higher than the next highest natural DF (main gauche) which has one second RT.

However a stock maul has a DF of .425
A perfect maul has a DF of .4505
vs leather armor, this is still lower than the next step up (two handed sword, +1 Base RT which has a DF of .500. the maul wins vs chain or higher armor.)

So, a dagger get a bonus of .012 DF, a maul gets over twice that, .0255. I don't know what that MEANS, other than a perfect dagger essentially lets you use a main gauche with -1 RT.

The conclusion I draw is that perfect weapons are especially beneficial when they are a type that are below a RT line, i.e dagger, short swords, crowbills, fist-scythes, etc.

Thoughts?

[Back]

The advantage of perfect forging is that it adds extra damage and is as easily enchantable as steel.

[Gelston]

Short answer, if you find a cheap perfect that is only a couple enchants below another weapon you like, buy them both and enchant the perfect up while you use the other.

[Riltus]

Assuming you have two weapons one is a perfectly forged weapon, and the other is a standard stock weapon. Neither have any abilities (outside of the natural bonuses of the perfect forging), same weight and you typically do not have problems with AS.

How many higher enchants would the stock weapon have to be over the perfect weapon before you would use it over the perfect?

Considering the perfect has a +3 AVD that makes up for 1 enchant worth... is 2 enchants more enough? 3? 4?

Always wondered the break even point and wasn't sure if anyone had run any numbers.

The break-even point is an endroll success margin which will vary with the enchant bonus and weapon damage factor. As a generalization, in almost all cases, a perfect weapon will outperform its normal 1x enchanted counterpart with endrolls greater than ~137 (slightly lower with high DF weapons).

If you want to calculate the minimum endroll required for the perfect weapon to have an advantage vs a non-perfect weapon with an enchant bonus of x, you can use the following expression:


100 + ((DF1 * (Enchant bonus - 3) / (DF2 - DF1))

Where:
DF1: normal weapon damage factor
DF2: perfect weapon damage factor (DF1 * 1.06)
The value 3 in the expression represents the AvD increase of a perfect weapon.

EXAMPLE 1 (1x Maul)

For example, to determine the endroll required for a perfect maul to be equal to or greater than a 1x maul (in terms of raw damage) vs cloth armor:

DF1 (normal weapon): .550
DF2 (perfect weapon): .583 (.550 * 1.06)
Enchant bonus: 5
Round up result

Note: Damage factors always truncate at 3 decimal places


100 + ((.550 * (5 - 3) / (.583 - .550)) = 100 + (1.1 / .033) = 134 endroll

To verify this you can calculate the raw damage from each weapon:

Raw damage w/1x enchanted maul: .550 * 36 (endroll success margin) = 19.8
Raw damage w/perfect maul: .583 * 34 = 19.822

Note: it is necessary to add the difference between the enchant bonus and the increased AvD of the perfect weapon to the endroll success margin of the normal weapon. In the example above the endroll success margin for the perfect weapon is 34 and the endroll success margin of the normal weapon is 36 since the difference between the enchant bonus and the increased AvD is 2.

EXAMPLE 2 (2x Maul)

Instead of a 1x maul you have a 2x (+10 bonus) maul. The endroll required for the perfect maul to out-damage the 2x maul would be:

DF1: .550
DF2: .583
Enchant bonus: +10


100 + ((.550 * (10 - 3) / (.583 - .550)) = 100 + (3.85 / .033) = 217 endroll

Raw damage 2x maul: .550 * 124 = 68.2
Raw damage perfect maul: .583 * 117 = 68.21

In the above example a perfect maul will due more raw damage when its endroll is 217 than the 2x maul with an adjusted endroll of 224.

Note: In this case it is necessary to increase the normal maul's endroll by 7 (the difference between the +10 enchant bonus and the increased AvD of 3).

EXAMPLE 3 (3x Maul):

Perfect maul/3x maul vs cloth armor:

DF1: .550
DF2: .583
Enchant bonus: +15


100 + ((.550 * (15 -3) / (.583 - .550) = 100 + (6.6 / .033) = 300 endroll

Raw damage 3x maul: .550 * 212 = 116.6
Raw damage perfect maul: .583 * 200 = 116.6

You would need endrolls of 300+ for the perfect maul to outperform a normal 3x enchanted maul.

Mark

[Asha]

Mark's posts are amazing with a cup of coffee.

[tallkris3]

Mark... Thank you very much for your post... you broke it out better then I could have hoped for.

Thank you.

[dave84brady]

You covered some good points here, I think a meaningful response is very important for comments.