newbie guide

[Greng]

after almost 4 years I'm trying to return and finding it very daunting. I can't seem to find any updated guides on any class. anyone able to point me in the right direction for rogues - most importantly a good hunting location guide - no idea what new creatures there are and where to find them these days.

[Mobius1]

Hmm, I'd start with: http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Rogue

~Midgar

[Drazaan]

I have not seen any class guides, much less ones that share hunting advice these days. With the increased diversity of how people hunt (since the Gemstone guides from the mid and late 90s. I don't seem to recall any from around the last four years.), where to hunt is dependent on this.

If you share what sort of hunting style you plan on using, that might help others hone in on what might also work well for you. Weapon type? Open swinging, open ambushing, ambushing from hiding? The general build of your rogue? What level is your character?

[Greng]

(at level 14), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 120 30
Shield Use.........................| 70 15
Combat Maneuvers...................| 99 23
Edged Weapons......................| 120 30
Ambush.............................| 120 30
Physical Fitness...................| 70 15
Dodging............................| 70 15
Harness Power......................| 30 6
Survival...........................| 10 2
Disarming Traps....................| 120 30
Picking Locks......................| 120 30
Stalking and Hiding................| 120 30
Perception.........................| 136 38
Climbing...........................| 25 5
Swimming...........................| 25 5
First Aid..........................| 25 5

Strength (STR): 77 (23) ... 77 (23)
Constitution (CON): 67 (23) ... 67 (23)
Dexterity (DEX): 79 (14) ... 79 (14)
Agility (AGI): 79 (9) ... 79 (9)
Discipline (DIS): 74 (22) ... 74 (22)
Aura (AUR): 82 (6) ... 82 (6)
Logic (LOG): 61 (10) ... 61 (10)
Intuition (INT): 62 (6) ... 62 (6)
Wisdom (WIS): 63 (6) ... 63 (6)
Influence (INF): 63 (-4) ... 63 (-4)

I'm shooting for a hiding ambushing build - would also like to be able to open some boxes along the way. I'm open to any suggestions as to what works best. I really just want to level as quickly as possible. I have a wizard for spell ups and I'm trying sunfist as a society (although I'm not sure it's the right one for me). I'm a soloist by nature. also - what is this lich thing I'm reading about and is it something I should have?

[Gibreficul]

(at level 14)

I'm shooting for a hiding ambushing build - would also like to be able to open some boxes along the way. I'm open to any suggestions as to what works best. I really just want to level as quickly as possible. I have a wizard for spell ups and I'm trying sunfist as a society (although I'm not sure it's the right one for me). I'm a soloist by nature. also - what is this lich thing I'm reading about and is it something I should have?

Alright, you're doing the sword/board locksmith build... First, a few suggestions.

I wouldn't be any less than 2x dodge no matter what "type" of rogue. CM to 1x might be enough to make that happen. Also, I noticed you're 2x armor, which is pretty heavy. Start-game, you can use the lighter armors, get evade mastery temporarily until you work your way into a higher armor group, then drop it for some more useful cman.

Second, the hunt style. Fortunately, you've chosen one of the most powerful attack methods in the game. Unfortunately, the mechanics governing it are perhaps the most complex in the game. (Aim locations, critter vs player size mods, critter perception) OHE has a wide range of weapons to select from, and you should choose the best tool for the job. I tend to say an ambusher should carry at minimum, a dagger and a handaxe, and maybe a short sword for some middle ground. You should choose your weapon based on the armor of your foe. Use the lightest (fastest) weapon you can and still kill reliably. No sense having an extra 2 second RT with a handaxe when a dagger would've done the job just the same. Likewise, no sense trying to penetrate plate armor with a dagger.

Pay attention to critter types, and their relative perception. Some stuff, (animals, undeads, grimswarm guards) are more perceptive than others. Be aware of that, and learn how to "adjust" their perception with well placed open ambushes.

As for things to hunt... I've been a fan of Ta'Vaalor's hunting, the western side of town, and then ogre warriors up to somewhere in the early 20s. After that, Zul Logoth's grutik savages/shaman and the roa'ter wormlings are pretty easy up to 30ish, from there I head to River's Rest for some krolvin carrack action. That'll take ya to 40. From there, your options are wide open.

As for society... and rogues. CoL is the best. The upkeep is way less taxing than GoS, and the benefits are comparable. I've found a rogue's best plan to survive in a warcamp is to either 3x hide, or 3x dodge. I lean toward the dodge, because defense is awesome. The locksmithing takes so much out of a rogue's combat prowess, and by nature, rogues are one-on-one hunters, not-so much big mob brawlers. Couple that with the extra strain on your stamina pool and warcamps prove to be less than optimal for most rogues to hunt and survive reliably. A rogue should isolate and eliminate.

Lich is :socool: and you should have it. I have spoken

[Greng]

great info - thank you. I went heavy on the armor use to get into brig asap (had a suit lying around I wanted to take advantage of early), so now I'll hold off to put points elsewhere like catching up in dodge.

on my last rogue I went from 1-about 80ish as sword and board, but this time I'm on a dwarf so I opted to carry a handaxe and falchion for heavy hitting and taking legs out. I think I'd like to return to archery at higher levels unless it's something that works well early on.

a question on locksmithing - how much is necessary to be able to open my own finds, if I remember correctly 2x didn't cut it, but with the help of spells is it possible?

thanks again for the great info...wishing I never sold off my original rogue!

[DaCapn]

after almost 4 years I'm trying to return and finding it very daunting. I can't seem to find any updated guides on any class. anyone able to point me in the right direction for rogues - most importantly a good hunting location guide - no idea what new creatures there are and where to find them these days.

I was about to laugh... then I realized that there have been new creatures in the past 4 years. Other than The Scatter (post-cap) and Grimswarm (via Guardians of Sunfist), there's nothing new (those were both 2008, I think).

GoS as a rogue: Much more annoying than CoL in most ways. It's easier & cheaper to maintain CoL signs, they last longer, it's easier to master, there's greater AS/DS/TD bonuses, warcamping sucks as a rogue.

That being said, I still have my main rogue in GoS. The society powers are more diverse (sigils of mending, determination, escape), mastering is actually not bad since you can do many GoS tasks stealthily, sigil of power is handy if you use 410, crit weighting/padding society powers are handy (say for a grizzled bounty creature, a particularly large swarm of bandits, etc).

If you do warcamps, it's best to just lurk in the supply chest room because non-guard Grimswarm can't enter, only spawn. It's a good way to manage swarms. Also, you don't get Grimswarm crowd-induced RT if you are move while hidden.

Also: http://lichproject.org/

[DaCapn]

a question on locksmithing - how much is necessary to be able to open my own finds, if I remember correctly 2x didn't cut it, but with the help of spells is it possible?

2x picking/disarm/perception with 403/404 will get you just about everything under level 80 (roughly). After that, there's some stuff you won't be able to get unless you're 3x. Also, 5-10 ranks of arcane symbols for scarab traps.

[Ayamei]

Also, 5-10 ranks of arcane symbols for scarab traps.

Just 5-10 ranks? I stopped training AS until I got the *scritch scritch* at 16 ranks, and that was at level 20ish. Does disarm come into play with disarming scarabs? If so, that could be the reason, I obviously have much more disarm skill now. Is 16 ranks overkill? Sorry to hijack the thread, but this caught my attention.

I do use scrolls and hunt in the broken lands, so it isn't useless if it is overkill.

[Mobius1]

Gib said pretty much everything I was going to. 2x dodge is where you want to be, and 2x armor is not really worth it.

Though, going above 1x CM is pretty expensive for a picker, but I don't find it to be a bad investment, by any means. It's just one of those things you can spend points on, if you feel you need it (Like if your AS is too low, your your current cmans aren't cutting it.). But if 1x CM works for you, then it's probably not worth it, since it's a very expensive skill to train in.

[subzero]

Just 5-10 ranks? I stopped training AS until I got the *scritch scritch* at 16 ranks, and that was at level 20ish. Does disarm come into play with disarming scarabs?

Disarm skill does play a part. I think 5-10 AS ranks is a good number for lower-level rogues to get things started with.

[DaCapn]

I played around with disarming scarabs a while ago. It looked like you'd get the *scritch scritch* message on scarabs that were approximately disarm bonus + arcane symbols bonus. But I never failed to disarm a scarab that I was able to drop in the first place (whether I had 0, 5, or 10 ranks). I'd say this was across a few hundred scarab traps.

My guess was that if the scarab is below some threshold, it's an automatic success. If not, you have some hidden disarm + stat + arcane symbols roll (or something similar) which will basically span your range of disarmable traps.

But anyway, that's mostly speculation. And to add further anecdotal evidence, I (recently) successfully disarmed a scarab that beat my personal best and required 404 to drop. So I'm guessing that the hidden roll must span a pretty large range.

One thing I can say with a great deal of certainty is that having 404 active doesn't affect the scritch messaging. At one point, I had my scritch-level determined to within ~5 and having 404 active didn't get me the messaging for scarabs barely beyond that threshold. Whether or not it plays into the hidden roll is another question.

[Gibreficul]

fput "disarm ##{scarab}"
x = matchwait /scritch|you probably rendered|relatively simple/i

I disarm an extra 2 times if I get the "you probably rendered" output, once more if it's the relatively simple message, and I just grab it if I get scritch.

I have no clue what min requirements are, but that kept me from getting killed by scarabs out of the box.