Guildspeak

[Ayamei]

Do you all think its OOC to say guild skills in guild speak? Had a slight disagreement over this issue the other night. Was chastised a bit when I was just asking, in guild speak, if this particular guy could teach me get mouth. apparently I was being OOC.

It ended with someone getting stabbed as it often does with Liskey. But really, is it considered bad role playing to be referring to in game skills from the guild in guild speak by name? Or is guild speak only supposed to be used between rogues to have private conversations? It seems somewhat tedious to me to ask, "can you teach me the skill where you cough and slightly slip something out of your pocket, making it look like you coughed it into your hand?"

[Mobius1]

Not only is guild skills perfectly IC, but so is talking about ranks, reps, etc.

Why in the world would they consider "guild skills" to be ooc? They are skills learned from the guild!

If I said to you "I am 63 ranks in the guild skill Sweep," that is NOT OOC.

EDIIT: And damn, I missed the rogue guild night AGAIN! You guys seriously need to have it for longer than you do!

[Gizmo]

lol wow

[Mobius1]

The only skills that would be OOC, are specific lock mastery and stunmaneuvers skills. Like, if I said stun maneuver stance2, that would be OOC, because stance 2 is just an OOC command. But "stun maneuvers" itself, is not OOC.

But with the gambits skills, all the skill names are actual IC nicknames for the skills, so they are ok. Same goes for cheapshot skills.

[Ayamei]

my thoughts exactly.

[Middian]

I have to admit, it was quite a show watching Liskey speak with her sneaky daggers!! It made my Krol-cartwheel night go by faster! =)

[RichardCranium]

Not only is guild skills perfectly IC, but so is talking about ranks, reps, etc.

Why in the world would they consider "guild skills" to be ooc? They are skills learned from the guild!

If I said to you "I am 63 ranks in the guild skill Sweep," that is NOT OOC.

EDIIT: And damn, I missed the rogue guild night AGAIN! You guys seriously need to have it for longer than you do!

Talking about guild skills isn't out of character. Trying to apply ranks and numbers to them is.

[Buckwheet]

Uh why? The training master clearly says outloud, you are looking for another rank in X skill.

How is that OOC then in guild chat?


DeLuca assays you with a critical eye and says, "Let's find you something to do to earn a rank in Lock Mastery."

[RichardCranium]

Uh why? The training master clearly says outloud, you are looking for another rank in X skill.

How is that OOC then in guild chat?

It's still OOC. There's no realistic way of ranking a skill like that in numbers.

[Mobius1]

Talking about guild skills isn't out of character. Trying to apply ranks and numbers to them is.

Wrong. When you gain a rank, you are being promoted by a guild master who deems you worthy of the next "rank." It is a ranking system that is IC.

It's not like the training system, where you magically earn TP's which you spend on what you please, in an OOC fashion. You are actually working specifically on each individual rank, and are bestowed each rank by a guild master.

If you tell me ranks are OOC, then you might as well tell me that asking for a promotion is OOC.

EDIT: In fact, even talking about points until next rank, or points earned per task, is IC. And if you have a problem with that, then I guess Deluca is a very OOC NPC ;)

[RichardCranium]

Wrong. When you gain a rank, you are being promoted by a guild master who deems you worthy of the next "rank." It is a ranking system that is IC.

It's not like the training system, where you magically earn TP's which you spend on what you please, in an OOC fashion. You are actually working specifically on each individual rank, and are bestowed each rank by a guild master.

If you tell me ranks are OOC, then you might as well tell me that asking for a promotion is OOC.

I'm telling you that they bend the rules for the sake of the system. It is still in inherently OOC. You can watch someone pick a lock and determine how experienced they are. You can't apply a number to it.

[Buckwheet]

Then that is the craziest definition of the word "rank" I have ever heard. For a rank to even exist it has to have an attached and known grading system.

[Middian]

It seems completely logical to state what rank you are if someone asked in character. If we take rogue gambits, there are “29 steps or 61 ranks” that need to be accomplished prior to becoming a master of rogue gambits. If I asked in character “Hey what rank are you in gambits?” It seems rational that a number or word would have to be assigned to state what level I am at in my gambits training. A person in character that states they are at “rank 6” of gambits. This would mean they are working on “cartwheels” section of gambits to another rogue.

[SayGoodbye]

I imagine if they can assign ranks to martial arts via colored belts they cab assign ranks to guild skills via number. This is not OOC.

[Mobius1]

I'm telling you that they bend the rules for the sake of the system. It is still in inherently OOC. You can watch someone pick a lock and determine how experienced they are. You can't apply a number to it.

You are basing this on what? What you FEEL is OOC? And are you saying that when the guild trainers speak to you, they are being OOC?


I imagine if they can assign ranks to martial arts via colored belts they cab assign ranks to guild skills via number. This is not OOC.

I was actually thinking of posting this exact thing as a line of reasoning.

Mastering a skill in the guild, requires a character to work their way up the rank system, and to do so, are required to reach a certain point requirement, doing specific skills which are worth a specific amount of points.

Just because it's "points" and "ranks" doesn't mean that it is OOC.

~Midgar

[DaCapn]

Yeah, I always bring up the belt/ranks analogy. It feels a little weird to mention numbers for things like this but it works. Personally, I'm glad stating actual quantitative ranks is the norm. Few things piss me off more than this:



>lm appraise help
Things you might notice when appraising a lockpick...
CONDITION PRECISION STRENGTH
Miserable Detrimental Flimsy
Poor Ineffectual Very Weak
Damaged Very Inaccurate Weak
Neglected Inaccurate Below Average
Good Somewhat Inaccurate Average
Excellent Inefficient Above Average
Unreliable Strong
Below Average Very Strong
Average Excellent
Above Average Incredible
Somewhat Accurate Astonishing
Favorable Unsurpassed
Advantageous
Accurate
Highly Accurate
Excellent
Incredible
Unsurpassed


Or how you can read the exact lock value from picking but all you get from calipers is "somewhat difficult but potentially trivial."

EDIT: I don't ever mention training points, though. It seems more OOC to me and there's never really a need to mention them. And there actually is plenty of room for people to improve on where they're OOC. One thing that comes to mind is someone saying "it didn't work" while doing partner reps. It's easy to say unintentionally but it doesn't make sense.

[Mobius1]

Yeah, there are some things that are OOC, no doubt.

But the ranks, skills, points, etc., in the guild, being IC, is a convenient thing, especially when you are spending a lot of time training with many different people.

If someone came in and told me that I was being OOC, I'd feel like slapping them upside the head! I know that place like the back of my hand, and have spent probably more than half my overall playing time in there, so don't go telling me what is and isn't OOC about it!!

~Midgar

[RichardCranium]

Yeah, there are some things that are OOC, no doubt.

But the ranks, skills, points, etc., in the guild, being IC, is a convenient thing, especially when you are spending a lot of time training with many different people.

If someone came in and told me that I was being OOC, I'd feel like slapping them upside the head! I know that place like the back of my hand, and have spent probably more than half my overall playing time in there, so don't go telling me what is and isn't OOC about it!!

~Midgar

Now I remember why I don't try to talk to people about this game. Carry on, retards.

[Mobius1]

Now I remember why I don't try to talk to people about this game. Carry on, retards.

You are basing your statements off your opinion alone. What do you even know about guild lore, or how the guild officially operates? Don't come making a statement like that about the guild, without giving anything to back it.

I am telling you that this IS how the guild operates. It operates based on a point and rank system, and there is NOTHING OOC about it!

The only thing retarded, is making a statement without anything to back it!

I'd say the training administrators and guild masters talking openly about them, is all that is needed to prove your opinion wrong!

~Midgar

[RichardCranium]

You are basing your statements off your opinion alone. What do you even know about guild lore, or how the guild officially operates? Don't come making a statement like that about the guild, without giving anything to back it.

I am telling you that this IS how the guild operates. It operates based on a point and rank system, and there is NOTHING OOC about it!

The only thing retarded, is making a statement without anything to back it!

I'd say the training administrators and guild masters talking openly about them, is all that is needed to prove your opinion wrong!

~Midgar

I told you, they bent the rules for simplicity. Trying to incorporate a game mechanic into terms that are in character can be done. Using strictly numbered ranks isn't one of them.

[Mobius1]

I told you, they bent the rules for simplicity. Trying to incorporate a game mechanic into terms that are in character can be done. Using strictly numbered ranks isn't one of them.

In this case, it IS. Again, you can say this all you want, but where are you basing it off of?

I'm sorry, but this is not the same as learning skills through the trainer. Again, you are rigorously training through each given task, being awarded a specific amount of points, which is spoken to you IC by the training administrator. You then get promoted to the next rank, by a guildmaster, which is seen by EVERYONE there! If it was an OOC promotion, others would not know about it!

So then, I ask, WTF are you being promoted to, then?

When Dante congratulates you for reaching your next rank, WTF is he congratulating you for?! An OOC rank?!

[RichardCranium]

In this case, it IS. Again, you can say this all you want, but where are you basing it off of?

I'm sorry, but this is not the same as learning skills through the trainer. Again, you are rigorously training through each given task, being awarded a specific amount of points, which is spoken to you IC by the training administrator. You then get promoted to the next rank, by a guildmaster, which is seen by EVERYONE there! If it was an OOC promotion, others would not know about it!

So then, I ask, WTF are you being promoted to, then?

When Dante congratulates you for reaching your next rank, WTF is he congratulating you for?! An OOC rank?!

You cannot be this dense. I am not saying that the term ranks is OOC. I am saying trying to apply numbers to them is.

[Mobius1]

You cannot be this dense. I am not saying that the term ranks is OOC. I am saying trying to apply numbers to them is.

No, how can YOU be this dense?

You don't think it would become common knowledge that it takes exactly 63 promotions to master a skill? Thus a number being associated with it IC?

Are you saying a character is unable to count how many times they were promoted?

[subzero]

It's still OOC. There's no realistic way of ranking a skill like that in numbers.

You could always try to come up with some 63-color belt system.

[Gibreficul]

You could always try to come up with some 63-color belt system.

at mastery, you get to take the fucking belt off. :)

I agree with both the senseless violence, and that the guild ranks and reps are not OOC.

[RichardCranium]

No, how can YOU be this dense?

You don't think it would become common knowledge that it takes exactly 63 promotions to master a skill? Thus a number being associated with it IC?

Are you saying a character is unable to count how many times they were promoted?

I'm saying you can be promoted sixty-three times. Assigning an actual number to said training is fucking ridiculous and out of character. Maybe if you ranked up every time you typed in the command, but you don't. I'm thinking about this from a character's perspective. Apparently you're not.

[Ayamei]

The question wasn't even ranks, it was the term get mouth. Apparently that was OOC. I think this is a silly thing to argue, beating around the bush with terms like what level you are is fine. But with any RP, there needs to be a reasonable suspension of belief. When I'm hanging around the guild trying to get things done, I don't want to waste time on a discussion if someone is approximately 4/5s of their ways to mastering sweep, and may be a good training partner. I'm going to ask them how many ranks they have, or if they know x rogue gambit to teach me. There's better things to be a stickler about RP than this.

[RichardCranium]

The question wasn't even ranks, it was the term get mouth. Apparently that was OOC. I think this is a silly thing to argue, beating around the bush with terms like what level you are is fine. But with any RP, there needs to be a reasonable suspension of belief. When I'm hanging around the guild trying to get things done, I don't want to waste time on a discussion if someone is approximately 4/5s of their ways to mastering sweep, and may be a good training partner. I'm going to ask them how many ranks they have, or if they know x rogue gambit to teach me. There's better things to be a stickler about RP than this.

I completely agree. It's a grey area and must be dealt with as the player deems necessary.

[Mobius1]

I'm saying you can be promoted sixty-three times. Assigning an actual number to said training is fucking ridiculous and out of character. Maybe if you ranked up every time you typed in the command, but you don't. I'm thinking about this from a character's perspective. Apparently you're not.

You just can't admit that you are wrong, even though you know you are.

You are trying to argue that my character doesn't know how to freaking count, at this point. How am I not looking at it from my character's perspective? "Let's see, he promoted me to rank 1 in the skill, so I must be at rank 1? Ok, now he promoted me to rank 2 in the skill, so I must be rank 2?"

Just give it up dude, you are wrong. Guild ranks are 100% IC, and are assigned to you by a guildmaster, with each promotion. These are OFFICIAL RANKS!!

Granted, in the past, some of us have asked to have something such as a guild pin incorporated, or anything of that nature, to make the information obtained from the gld ranks command more IC. But the ranks themselves, are NOT OOC!!

[Jonty]

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png

[dszabo]

Just a few more cents thrown in the pot here... You gain a rank in the military and what happens RC? Oh damn, you gain A NUMBER. E1-E9, O1-O10. And if the military can't be compared to a guild, what can?
Hopefully your bro is done fucking your mom, we don't need any more retarded kids like you running around playing catch with your brodad.

[RichardCranium]

Ha, what's been happening Jonty?

[Gizmo]

I completely agree. It's a grey area and must be dealt with as the player deems necessary.

Thank you for grasping what I told her, multiple times, in game.

That ME as a PLAYER deems simply asking my character "Hey, can you teach me get mouth?" being ooc.

I just looked at her and acted stupid, since get mouth to me, could mean a ton of different things.

But instead of her understanding that, she got upset.

Sorry, but not EVERY player will have the same stance as you for what is considered OOC and what is not. Especially when you ask in such an obscure manner, as I tried telling you before you even made this post yet you still didn't grasp that I was telling you me as a player, think it's OOC.

I wasn't straight up saying, NO U R WRONG ITS OOC!1!

PS: This initial post was never about Guild RANKs. It was about Guild SKILLS.

Ranks are a whole other thing entirely in my eyes. Just don't ask me, Hey can you teach me get mouth or "stunman stand"....Seriously

[4a6c1]

Soo.... isn't this exactly what Whisper OOC (character) was made for? Too logical? Okay forget I mentioned it. Here's a vulcan in a scary art deco revival print.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_csfr1z1yRdk/ShmeI2IUSGI/AAAAAAAADI8/MZi2FSVEdBA/s400/vulcan.gif

[Mobius1]

Sorry, but not EVERY player will have the same stance as you for what is considered OOC and what is not. Especially when you ask in such an obscure manner, as I tried telling you before you even made this post yet you still didn't grasp that I was telling you me as a player, think it's OOC.


It's not a matter of a player's stance, in this case. The names of the rogue gambit skills are NOT OOC, no matter what you the player thinks.

They are nicknames that have been given to the skills, and are very much IC. It's no freaking grey area, nor up to your opinion.

[Gizmo]

It's not a matter of a player's stance, in this case. The names of the rogue gambit skills are NOT OOC, no matter what you the player thinks.

They are nicknames that have been given to the skills, and are very much IC. It's no freaking grey area, nor up to your opinion.

It is completely my opinion, since I'm the one playing.

When you feel like paying for my account, then by all means tell me it's not my opinion.

[Jonty]

I see absolutely nothing wrong with asking something like, "Hey, can you show me how to <insert guild skill>, please?".

[Jonty]

Ha, what's been happening Jonty?

Just got a little bored after being gone for 5-6 years. Decided to try to cap my sorcerer. Not sure if I'll stick around or bring Jonty back.

[Mobius1]

It is completely my opinion, since I'm the one playing.

When you feel like paying for my account, then by all means tell me it's not my opinion.

Because you are trying to influence others with your opinion. The very fact that she felt compelled to post this, proves that fact.

I don't want people in the guild being made to think that it is OOC to say those things, because it isn't, and shouldn't be.

Hell, you are perfectly entitled to not use the names of the skills, but if someone else uses them, you have no right to tell them not to.

EDIT: And if Midgar was in the guild, and your character RPed as not knowing what the skill nicknames were, he'd think you were an idiot, because that's, from an RP perspective, like being absolutely clueless about something that is common knowledge in the guild.

[Gizmo]

Because you are trying to influence others with your opinion. The very fact that she felt compelled to post this, proves that fact.

I don't want people in the guild being made to think that it is OOC to say those things, because it isn't, and shouldn't be.

Hell, you are perfectly entitled to not use the names of the skills, but if someone else uses them, you have no right to tell them not to.

EDIT: And if Midgar was in the guild, and your character RPed as not knowing what the skill nicknames were, he'd think you were an idiot, because that's, from an RP perspective, like being absolutely clueless about something that is common knowledge in the guild.

I never once told them not to, but thanks for making assumptions!

She simply got all pissy, I acted like I didn't know what she meant, and then even went as far as to post her gripe about it on here, to gain the feeling that she was right, while I was wrong.

In which case, NEITHER of us were wrong since we are both entitled to opinions. And if you'd think I was an idiot, I'd think you were two, for not even forming coherent sentences. It's moot, as I said

[Mobius1]

In which case, NEITHER of us were wrong since we are both entitled to opinions. And if you'd think I was an idiot, I'd think you were two, for not even forming coherent sentences. It's moot, as I said

No, you were wrong, and she was right, period.

Again, you are simply forming an opinion about what you FEEL is OOC. The fact is, that it is not OOC, therefore, your opinion is wrong, simple as that.

If I say "You need to be taught Get Mouth?" That is perfectly acceptable, since it's an IC nickname for the skill. It's about as incoherent as asking someone if they are working on Footstomp, or Sweep (i.e. NOT incoherent whatsoever!).

Surely, if you were new to the guild, or had never worked on gambits, you would not be expected to know the nicknames, and then might THINK I am being incoherent, in which case I'd explain what it means to you, and how it is just guild lingo for a rogue gambits skill. In fact, things like this can often cause more interaction between new members, and can get them interested in learning more.

[Gizmo]

No, you were wrong, and she was right, period.

Again, you are simply forming an opinion about what you FEEL is OOC. The fact is, that it is not OOC, therefore, your opinion is wrong, simple as that.

If I say "You need to be taught Get Mouth?" That is perfectly acceptable, since it's an IC nickname for the skill. It's about as incoherent as asking someone if they are working on Footstomp, or Sweep (i.e. NOT incoherent whatsoever!).

Surely, if you were new to the guild, or had never worked on gambits, you would not be expected to know the nicknames, and then might THINK I am being incoherent, in which case I'd explain what it means to you, and how it is just guild lingo for a rogue gambits skill. In fact, things like this can often cause more interaction between new members, and can get them interested in learning more.

Right guy. I'm done even trying to get it thru to you.

[Mobius1]

Right guy. I'm done even trying to get it thru to you.

I don't know why you'd even try to get through to me about this, to begin with.

I just don't want people in the guild to feel like it's wrong or OOC to use guild lingo that is completely acceptable.

~Midgar

[RichardCranium]

No, you were wrong, and she was right, period.

Again, you are simply forming an opinion about what you FEEL is OOC. The fact is, that it is not OOC, therefore, your opinion is wrong, simple as that.

If I say "You need to be taught Get Mouth?" That is perfectly acceptable, since it's an IC nickname for the skill. It's about as incoherent as asking someone if they are working on Footstomp, or Sweep (i.e. NOT incoherent whatsoever!).

Surely, if you were new to the guild, or had never worked on gambits, you would not be expected to know the nicknames, and then might THINK I am being incoherent, in which case I'd explain what it means to you, and how it is just guild lingo for a rogue gambits skill. In fact, things like this can often cause more interaction between new members, and can get them interested in learning more.

Well that's like, uh, your opinion man.

For someone so bent out of shape for people pushing their opinion on others you sure don't mind pushing yours on us.

[Mobius1]

Well that's like, uh, your opinion man.

For someone so bent out of shape for people pushing their opinion on others you sure don't mind pushing yours on us.

Hmm, from what I can read, I seem to be among the majority on these forums.

But I am basing what I am saying on the way it has always been.

[Tgo01]

If I'm understanding you right Mobius1 you think an NPC never says anything OOC? Or just never openly talks about things that are OOC?

As to the discussion of whether or not talking about ranks in skills is OOC I was once scolded by a GM for saying 20 ranks of climbing are needed to climb some mountain. GMs do seem to be sticklers about assigning numbers to ranks.


That ME as a PLAYER deems simply asking my character "Hey, can you teach me get mouth?" being ooc.

I gotta say Ayamei if that is really how you phrased the question I would say it was OOC. When I was doing reps with my rogue I never said "Can you teach me dagger balance?" I would say something like "Can you teach me how to balance a dagger?"

If I was doing audience reps and someone asked me what I was doing I certainly wouldn't say "I'm getting mouth!"

[Mobius1]

If I'm understanding you right Mobius1 you think an NPC never says anything OOC? Or just never openly talks about things that are OOC?


There could be exceptions where someone made a mistake, but when an NPC actually speaks to you, it's not OOC. Usually the OOC stuff is given to you by the system itself.

As for the climbing ranks, that is obviously OOC, and not anything like guild ranks.


If I was doing audience reps and someone asked me what I was doing I certainly wouldn't say "I'm getting mouth!"

Something like that wouldn't really be OOC to me...just weird. If those were their choice of words, I'd probably tease them about it. Just because the skills are guild lingo, doesn't mean they can't be confusing or misused if said improperly.

But if you asked me, "Can you teach me get mouth?" I'd perfectly understand what you meant, from an IC perspective, because that is the lingo we use, and have always used, for it.

In fact, having lingo like that, actually makes it seem more real, to me, and more in character. Asking me how to "balance a dagger," I'd be like "Umm, we have a name for that skill. We call it 'dagger balance'."

[Tgo01]

As for the climbing ranks, that is obviously OOC, and not anything like guild ranks.

Why is climbing ranks obviously OOC but guild ranks are not?


But if you asked me, "Can you teach me get mouth?" I'd perfectly understand what you meant, from an IC perspective, because that is the lingo we use, and have always used, for it.

In fact, having lingo like that, actually makes it seem more real, to me, and more in character. Asking me how to "balance a dagger," I'd be like "Umm, we have a name for that skill. We call it 'dagger balance'."

So asking someone to teach you how to balance a dagger is odd but asking someone to teach you 'get mouth' is not odd? Are you just disagreeing with me for the sake of disagreeing with me?

You disagreer you!

[Mobius1]

Why is climbing ranks obviously OOC but guild ranks are not?


We've already gone over that. At great length, in fact.




So asking someone to teach you how to balance a dagger is odd but asking someone to teach you 'get mouth' is not odd? Are you just disagreeing with me for the sake of disagreeing with me?

You disagreer you!

Because the skill has a NAME - dagger balance. That is an IC name, that has been given to it by rogues that have trained in it.

But I guess, in the end, I probably wouldn't bother to correct you if you didn't use the name, but I'd certainly use it when speaking to you, and would expect you to understand what I meant. If you tried to act like it was OOC, and that you didn't understand, then I would probably point out how it has a name that we go by.

[Gizmo]

We've already gone over that. At great length, in fact.




Because the skill has a NAME - dagger balance. That is an IC name, that has been given to it by rogues that have trained in it.

But I guess, in the end, I probably wouldn't bother to correct you if you didn't use the name, but I'd certainly use it when speaking to you, and would expect you to understand what I meant. If you tried to act like it was OOC, and that you didn't understand, then I would probably point out how it has a name that we go by.

Does Deluca tell you, "Here Midgar, go practice some dagger balance with a partner?"

Please show me where dagger balance comes into play in the game, aside from using a Game Mechanic such as GLD, which, is OOC to me or simply because players say it often, it suddenly becomes IC? If that's your argument, if I keep saying Hey guys, do you want 511? Does that make it IC if alot of people start saying it?

I'd like to hear where Deluca, or any of the masters simply call it dagger balance...

[Tgo01]

We've already gone over that. At great length, in fact.

Why can't I say I've trained climbing with my trainer once per session therefore I have 10 'ranks' in climbing? Seems to be the same argument with rogue guild ranks here.

[Mobius1]

Please show me where dagger balance comes into play in the game, aside from using a Game Mechanic such as GLD, which, is OOC to me or simply because players say it often, it suddenly becomes IC? If that's your argument, if I keep saying Hey guys, do you want 511? Does that make it IC if alot of people start saying it?


Yes, actually, that's exactly why. It's one of those things that was made IC, because of the need for easier training and interaction. And unlike, 511, which you could ask for using a single word (could you cast me a DISK please?), many of the guild skills are difficult to describe easily.

You can argue all you want, but this is the way it has always been, and the way it always will be. The terms are IC, because they need to be IC, and the last thing we need is people trying to change that, and make training more of a pain in the ass for people than it already is.

And again, from an IC perspective, it makes total sense that certain lingo is used to describe various skills. It's exactly the type of thing that would normally happen in these situations. In fact, the same thing can be said about spells, which you yourself used as an example.

"I need some more colors please!" That makes about as much sense as "get mouth!" lol

[rolfard]

hey, i've got a belt with 33 stripes on it because i was promoted 33 times. rg teach get mouth me please, and do it 13 times cuz the master is a deeck!

[Ayamei]

My problem with the other night was not if guild skills should be considered IC or OOC, like I said, that is a dumb argument anyway. My problem, Jukes, is that when I asked you if you could teach me a guild skill, you started on a speech about how I wasn't making any sense, and what could 'get mouth' really mean? It was 'cute' I guess, but a rogue asking in guild speak if someone can teach them a guild skill seems to be a very IC thing.

Everyone that night wanted to get stuff done, not listen to your nonsense. You wasted my time, so I wasted yours, sorry about that.

You're a mentor, Jukes. Don't be such a pedant.

[Gizmo]

My problem with the other night was not if guild skills should be considered IC or OOC, like I said, that is a dumb argument anyway. My problem, Jukes, is that when I asked you if you could teach me a guild skill, you started on a speech about how I wasn't making any sense, and what could 'get mouth' really mean? It was 'cute' I guess, but a rogue asking in guild speak if someone can teach them a guild skill seems to be a very IC thing.

Everyone that night wanted to get stuff done, not listen to your nonsense. You wasted my time, so I wasted yours, sorry about that.

You're a mentor, Jukes. Don't be such a pedant.

I roleplay my character differently.

If someone asks me if I can teach them get mouth, rogue speak or not, I'm going to act like I don't know what they mean because it's how Jukes is.

People take the game way too serious when it comes to people not doing exactly what they want them to do, sorry to burst your bubble that night but like I said, not every character will do as you ask, or understand what you mean, or care what you want.

It's called that, roleplay. And if you can't differentiate the difference between me roleplaying Jukes the way I perceive him to be and the whole Mentor thing, then perhaps you should take a step back and observe it all. Just because I am a Mentor, does not mean I must roleplay Jukes as some ever so understanding and help anyone that asks for it kind of Rogue, because I won't. If you had whispered ooc "Do you know get mouth" I'd have answered you normally. Then continued to ICly ask if you needed help learning how to produce things from your mouth.

Mentor Jukes != Off Duty Jukes.

But regardless, I think we got over that argument since then, and I am sure you will agree.

[Mobius1]

You're a mentor, Jukes. Don't be such a pedant.

I know I was pretty harsh in this discussion, and what you said here, is basically the whole reason I was so pissed about it.

The guild, in my opinion, is the best potential RP community, in the entire game. But trying to enforce silly things like this, is not encouraging that RP, it's simply exasperating new members, which is the LAST thing we need.

That terminology has always been used in the guild, and no one should be made to feel wrong about using it!

~Midgar

[Gizmo]

I know I was pretty harsh in this discussion, and what you said here, is basically the whole reason I was so pissed about it.

The guild, in my opinion, is the best potential RP community, in the entire game. But trying to enforce silly things like this, is not encouraging that RP, it's simply exasperating new members, which is the LAST thing we need.

That terminology has always been used in the guild, and no one should be made to feel wrong about using it!

~Midgar

Enforce? You people will never learn, I never tried to enforce anything LOL


I simply ROLEPLAYED my character as I normally would.

Sorry it got your panties all in a bundle, and even so enough to actually kill me in the process...

I'm done trying to repeat the fact that I...I...am the only person who was viewing it OOC and I'm ALLOWED to view it as I see fit. Sorry if how I viewed it, did NOT fit into your game plans..

[Ayamei]

I roleplay my character differently

You don't roleplay at all, you spam Lnet with dumb BS, or you stand idle and AFK in TSC. Crap mentor, I wonder who let you do that. I guess they just need people.


Just because I am a Mentor, does not mean I must roleplay Jukes as some ever so understanding and help anyone that asks for it kind of Rogue, because I won't.

Because you are a mentor, you should be encouraging people to train together. You showed up, didn't train with one person, then proceeded to detail how unlearned I must be to use common lingo in the guild skill. I guess you didn't even do a single rep with anyone because you were too busy typing ;chat lol i knowsss!!!.


If you had whispered ooc "Do you know get mouth" I'd have answered you normally. Then continued to ICly ask if you needed help learning how to produce things from your mouth.

Actually, I think you're wrong here. I think people should be talking aloud in the guild, so we can figure out who knows what skills from some context clues, rather than going through a long drawn out conversation each time like you would have it.


The guild, in my opinion, is the best potential RP community, in the entire game. But trying to enforce silly things like this, is not encouraging that RP, it's simply exasperating new members, which is the LAST thing we need.

That terminology has always been used in the guild, and no one should be made to feel wrong about using it!

~Midgar

This is important to quote again. The kind of RP snot faced environment you seem to want to foster, Jukes, isn't even conducive to playing, much less RP. I tend to be an RP stickler about things too, but something as simple as guild skills, give me a break. If you are going to break out your 'rp award pendant' and shine as the best and brightest RPer in the room, well good for you. Furthermore, (I wish I posted our conversation) you weren't too subtle with your distaste in my choice of words. Liskey gets mad easy and stabby fast, that part was IC. :tool:

[Gizmo]

You don't roleplay at all, you spam Lnet with dumb BS, or you stand idle and AFK in TSC. Crap mentor, I wonder who let you do that. I guess they just need people.

Clearly you have no grasp of what is OOC and IC then, if you are bringing LNET chat into this all. You have no idea what I do in-game. Did you know I do alot more than stand "idle" and "afk" in TSC while training my sand elemental?


Because you are a mentor, you should be encouraging people to train together. You showed up, didn't train with one person, then proceeded to detail how unlearned I must be to use common lingo in the guild skill. I guess you didn't even do a single rep with anyone because you were too busy typing ;chat lol i knowsss!!!.

I showed up, to pop in and see how everything was going. I had other obligations around the same time as guild night, Riend even knew that since I told her before hand. Sorry again you got mad.


Actually, I think you're wrong here. I think people should be talking aloud in the guild, so we can figure out who knows what skills from some context clues, rather than going through a long drawn out conversation each time like you would have it.

That's fine, you are allowed to voice your opinion, as am I and have been. The difference between you and I is I'm not flat out saying NO U WRONG! and getting angered by all of it. Remember, you were the one who brought this to public forums. When you killed me due to what I said, I took it as part of the Roleplay and moved on from that, however you clearly have not.



This is important to quote again. The kind of RP snot faced environment you seem to want to foster, Jukes, isn't even conducive to playing, much less RP. I tend to be an RP stickler about things too, but something as simple as guild skills, give me a break. If you are going to break out your 'rp award pendant' and shine as the best and brightest RPer in the room, well good for you. Furthermore, (I wish I posted our conversation) you weren't too subtle with your distaste in my choice of words. Liskey gets mad easy and stabby fast, that part was IC. :tool:

I'm not even going to bother commenting to this one. It only proves how mature you can be in situations like this.

It's a game, have fun and enjoy it. Don't let other's bring you down or how they play their character affect you and your feelings out of the game. Not every character will see eye to eye, nor will every character do what you may want as a player. So don't get that confused with other things.

I have nothing further to contribute to this thread, as I never felt in the wrong for doing and roleplaying how I thought Jukes would react in the situation. I play my characters as I see them. OOC outlets like LNET are an entirely different thing, and should never be taken serious and IC.

Sorry.

[Ayamei]

You confused what I said, I didn't mean I was confusing with what you say on lnet as what Jukes may be feeling, but rather, that I catch you AFK all the time, or unresponsive, yet every other chat on lnet is from you.

I honestly didn't put too much thought into the interaction between Liskey and Jukes, but, obviously, i put a lot of thought into me being perceived as being OOC. If you think someone is being OOC, then you should use an OOC whipser, not me. It all makes sense to my character, she is wondering why you don't know these skills name, why would I even ponder using the OOC whisper? My character is confused, and me (the Amy part) just thinks you have the IQ of a housefly.

We obviously aren't going to agree. So lets leave it at that. But one last thing, if a new person in the guild asks you for help, don't take this approach with her or him.

[Tgo01]

But one last thing, if a new person in the guild asks you for help, don't take this approach with her or him.

Ayamei has spoken!