OFFICIAL: Armor Padding Changes (Nerf)

[Fallen]

Armor Accessory and Padding Changes · on 5/29/2005 2:11:19 PM 1082


Reply

The way that damage/crit padding works with partial armors and armor accessories has changed. Previously, the only padding that mattered was that of the torso armor, regardless of what portion of the body was struck in combat (as in, you could be wearing padded light leather, which doesn't fully cover the head, but still get the full benefit from the padding if you took a head blow). We are changing this to a per area padding system, so that when a character wearing padded partial armor gets struck in a non-fully covered area, they only get half the normal benefit of their torso armor's padding.

To help offset this loss of padding, we have implemented support for padded armor accessories (arm/leg greaves, helms, and aventails). We will be scheduling merchants to distribute padded armor accessories over the next few weeks.

Mechanically, accessories that are padded only affect their coverage area (i.e. leg greaves padding only reduce damage on leg hits). The effective level of padding on a partially covered hit location is determined by averaging the padding level between the torso armor and the accessory. If an accessory is worn with full coverage armor, then the padding level is also determined by averaging. Some examples:

Player is wearing "decently" damage padded light leather and no helm. He gets hit in the head. He would have an effective damage padding level of "fair" ([decent + 0] / 2 = fair).

Player is wearing "decently" damage padded light leather and a "very heavily" damage padded helm. He gets hit in the head. He would have an effective damage padding level of "heavy" ([decent + very heavy] / 2 = heavy).

Player is wearing "decently" damage padded light leather and a "heavily" crit padded helm. He gets hit in the head. He would have an effective damage padding level of "fair" and an effective crit padding level of "somewhat" ([decent + 0] / 2 = fair, [very heavy + 0] / 2 = somewhat).

Player is wearing "somewhat" damage padded half plate and no leg greaves. He gets hit in the legs. He would have an effective damage padding level of "somewhat" (full protection), as half plate fully covers the legs.

Player is wearing "somewhat" damage padded half plate and is wearing "very heavily" damage padded leg greaves. He gets hit in the legs. He would have an effective damage padding level of "decently", as accessories can combine with full coverage ([somewhat + very heavy] / 2 = decently).

Player is wearing "somewhat" damage padded half plate and puts on unpadded leg greaves. He gets hit in the legs. He would have an effective damage padding level of "lightly" ([somewhat + 0] / 2 = lightly). It is not recommended to wear plain armor accessories over areas that are already fully covered.

Coase

This message was originally posted in Weapons, Armor and Items, All About Armor. To discuss the above follow the link below.

[Makkah]

Yea this kinda fucking sucks for us that sunk major beans in crit-padded partials...

[Fallen]

Yep. We did get all that warning about this change though....??

Its not like pures/semi's can just strap on more accessories without eating a ton of hindrance.

I think this will actually help Rogues/Warriors. Crit padded armor is going to be released into the game off the shelf. They simply drop down to a lower set of armor, then strap on the accessories that are crit padded to build back up to what they are trained for.

[FinisWolf]

I didn't read it as anything padded being sold on any shelf. I read it as for the next two weeks there will be merchants around to make those partial coverage armors take on the full coverage padding. (Yes. I realize this means hinderance.)

Also, think a bit about this. My guess is this is a step towards breakage being made more easily possible. (The one thing that will have me leave this game.)

As I see it, this is nothing more then another way to make our fantasy world reality, and I do not pay to play here for reality, I pay for the fantasy.

:shrug:

Just my $.02 ...

Finis

[Sean of the Thread]

I don't think I'd really mind breakage.. I play with basic gear just fine now days asides from some crappy siren scales leather that has saved my ass plenty.

[Jolena]

While I understand that breakage on gear is more realistic to its use against others and their armor, I also see the flip side of that which is that people like Stunseed and others who have incorporated their weapons into their RP are going to lose big time when it breaks and they have to find an elusive merchant to fix it for millions of silvers.

On topic I don't use accessories for armor so I don't guess this will really hurt me too horribly.

[Numbers]

So, in essence, it's another large leap in making the game even less fun.

[Sean of the Thread]

Originally posted by 3704558
So, in essence, it's another large leap in making the game even less fun.

Less fun would mean it is actually fun now.. 10 years ago it was fun.

[Skirmisher]

It seems to make sense to me, but then my caster doesnt have padded armor, and my square uses full coverage armor.

So i'm good! :bleh:

[Insodus]

Ya I think this effects casters much more. I know all my pures wear fulls.

I'm not too pissed about it yet, but for instance I got a set of greaves/helm/MBP all altered on the dancer and now the greaves/helm are worthless, and I gaurantee no one will get nearly enough padding out of these "planned services" to make up for this nerf. I mean look at the lines for work on the wavedancer... now think about public merchants. Oh my, we are all screwed.

[Warriorbird]

Eh, padding.

[StrayRogue]

This absolutely fucking blows. I echo Finiswolf's sentiments in that I highly doubt they'll release greaves/helms over somewhat padded.

Wayhey for making the game even shitter you feckless morons.

[Sean of the Thread]

Yeah I agree this is gonna suck for my pure really. I hate simu. I did just start playing SWG again this month......

[Fallen]

Yep, all it did is make full coverage armor worth a ton more.

As I said on the official boards, they should have just bit the bullet and fixed the bug completely:

If the area is not covered by any armor, you do not get the padding for that area. If you are struck in an area where you have padded accessories, you will receive the full benefit of that padding. Problem solved.

[Syberus]

I'm not real happy being that my armor is LBP, but I spose it's still a 7 crit divisor instead of 5, and it's still 8x, even if I lost half the padding on the majority of my body... The thing I don't get is how simu acts like you can just toss on partial armor to make up for it like it's no big deal. Maybe someone forgot to tell them that doing so increases your hindrance.

[Fallen]

The thing I don't get is how simu acts like you can just toss on partial armor to make up for it like it's no big deal. Maybe someone forgot to tell them that doing so increases your hindrance. >>

They must have seen that this will negatively effect those that cast and have padded leathers. It is a nerf.

No I am not bitching, I am just stating a fact.

[Artha]

WoW is still accepting new customers.

[FinisWolf]

WoW, the place with zero RP. No thanks. Great game otherwise though.

Finis

[StrayRogue]

Try UL.

[Makkah]

UL. ROFL.

That was a joke, right Stay?

[StrayRogue]

Hey, he said he wanted RP. He didn't mention a stable game environment, a working combat and magic system, firm histories, battling GM factions, tiny player base, or something that isn't perpetually in beta, gamma, whatever testing. If he'd specified those, then I wouldn't recommend UL.

[Makkah]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Hey, he said he wanted RP. He didn't mention [good game]

Hahahahah. Touche.

[Sylvan Dreams]

Originally posted by Fallen
Yep, all it did is make full coverage armor worth a ton more.

As I said on the official boards, they should have just bit the bullet and fixed the bug completely:

If the area is not covered by any armor, you do not get the padding for that area. If you are struck in an area where you have padded accessories, you will receive the full benefit of that padding. Problem solved.

Actually... if they want to fix it completely then any area not covered by your armor would have 0 armor protection. As it stands now, you're still getting SOME protection in what technically are fully uncovered areas. It's not as bad as it could be.

Debia :heart: full plate.

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Syberus
The thing I don't get is how simu acts like you can just toss on partial armor to make up for it like it's no big deal. Maybe someone forgot to tell them that doing so increases your hindrance.

I never understood why you got all the benefits you did from wearing partial armor before.

When I had just started and knew even less than I knew now, I remember making sure to find some greaves and helmet to round out whatever armor I was wearing at the time.

It just made sense. I was wrong, but it made sense. Heh. They are bringing it closer to what makes sense now, to me thats a good thing.

As it is, they are still leaving some benefit from wearing the padded partial cover armor, thats better than what "makes sense", so I don't think there is all that much room for any large outcry.

[StrayRogue]

It just fucks up semi's who want to wear decent chain.

[Fallen]

Actually... if they want to fix it completely then any area not covered by your armor would have 0 armor protection. As it stands now, you're still getting SOME protection in what technically are fully uncovered areas. It's not as bad as it could be.

Debia full plate. >>

That is how it was WAY back in the day.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Syberus
I'm not real happy being that my armor is LBP, but I spose it's still a 7 crit divisor instead of 5, and it's still 8x, even if I lost half the padding on the majority of my body...You don't get the crit divisor of 7 everywhere, only on the torso. It's the rigid DF you get everywhere.

The averaging thing is incredibly dumb. If I put a layer of tin foil on a suit of armor, it doesn't make the armor weaker.

Everything else is ok by me. Seems a bit unnecessary, but nothing that's going to bother me too much.
Originally posted by Sylvan Dreams
As it stands now, you're still getting SOME protection in what technically are fully uncovered areas.That's "non-fully covered". :?:

[Drinin]

I suppose that if my torso chain was crit padded I might be a bit peeved. But it isn't, so I'm not.

[Syberus]

I was under the impression that even if you had partial coverage, the "uncovered" parts of the armor still gave you the crit divisor of the category you had the partial armor in.

[Asha]

Lemme get this straight becouse I can't read at this hour.

Decent crit doubles won't be affected right?

[Syberus]

Right.

[Insodus]

The idea that it makes it more real is totally ridiculous in the first place. What exactly is "crit padding" anyway in "real life". I can see maybe damage padding being just thicker armor, but crit padding?

Basically they are trying to make things more real in a completely worthless way, while real problems go unattended.

[Fallen]

I was under the impression that even if you had partial coverage, the "uncovered" parts of the armor still gave you the crit divisor of the category you had the partial armor in. >>

Never got a straight answer on this, myself.

[Vixen]

Could someone explain to the dumb person (me) If and how this affects fgb, in language the unmechanically inclined (also me) Can understand? I dont really have high end anything. But I thought fgb was padded somehow, or maybe I am thinkin of something else, who knows.

[Makkah]

This doesn't affect FGB AT ALL. Unless you're dumb enough to wear less than heavy crit padded partial pieces (greaves, helm, aventail, etc). This is because FGB is brig which is full coverage which leaves no uncovered areas.

[Edited on 5-30-2005 by Makkah]

[Apotheosis]

still, more motivation to say bye bye to GSfor good.

[Sean of the Thread]

Originally posted by Yswithe
still, more motivation to say bye bye to GSfor good.

Shit like this blows.. but I see FGB going up in price now.. or any other full coverage armor with padding.

[Numbers]

"Less tedium, more fun!"

Why would anyone want padding on MBP and up? Who wears torso armor without greaves and a visored helm?

Uh, so, if I'm wearing torso chain and invest in a pair of arm and leg greaves, as well as a visored helm, all with VHCP, then I effectively not only have brig coverage on those areas, but now somewhat padded as well? Why is this a problem again?

[Fallen]

You will have to got ahold of all those items, and your armor training and hindrance will need to be set to a set of full coverage chain.

Um, okay.

- Stanley, who owns halfling chain.

[Sean]

Originally posted by Stanley Burrell
Why would anyone want padding on MBP and up? Who wears torso armor without greaves and a visored helm?

How many bards wear helms?

[Sean of the Thread]

Well the events page says they are FLOODING the market of the landing with 10 pieces... HAHAHAHAH.

[Shalla]

Double leather is full coverage right?

[Skirmisher]

Yep

[Makkah]

Yea this severely blows for bards with padded partial chain. The fact is, we varitably cannot wear helms considering it raises our hindrance from 10% to like 65%. So basically we're taking a 50% padding hit on our head, neck and eyes.

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by Stanley Burrell
Why would anyone want padding on MBP and up? Who wears torso armor without greaves and a visored helm?

Rogues who don't want to spend 300 ptp's extra for plate.

[Edited on 30-5-05 by StrayRogue]

[AnticorRifling]

Complete bullshit. Glad I sold my 6x dcp double leathers.....

Fucking kidding me. I want my old leathers back after this. Fuck LBP. Fuck the TP's I dumped for it and fuck the 20m I paid for it.

Thanks for blindsiding us you pieces of shit, this is a game not real fucking life don't take away all our fun bunch of fuckasses.

[Apotheosis]

you could always "threaten to boycott"

ROFL

:lol:

this is major bullshit

[theotherjohn]

Hey,

there is this pretty neat little game some us have been playing.

We have our own guild and everything.

Here is the link

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Syberus
I was under the impression that even if you had partial coverage, the "uncovered" parts of the armor still gave you the crit divisor of the category you had the partial armor in. No.
Originally posted by Stanley Burrell
Who wears torso armor without greaves and a visored helm? <------

[Sean of the Thread]

Originally posted by theotherjohn
Hey,

there is this pretty neat little game some us have been playing.

We have our own guild and everything.

Here is the link

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/

Warcraft sucks too.

[Gan]

The armor changes wont effect my pures (sorc/wizard) because they are in robes and have no issues. It wont effect my empath because he's wearing FGB.

However, I do not know how it will effect my mbp wearing rogue. For now hunting in the tower is not an issue. But when I make it to the ducts (gremlocks-garrote) and OTF (Ithzir scouts - head ambushes) he might have an issue. Then I also will have to deal with the next round of armor changes that deal with hiding. Brig and rogues dont mix if you plan on being an agressive hunter and plan to walk out alive. Been there, done that, no thanks. I suppose I'll nerf hiding/stalking, keep ambush, and just become a picking warrior since it seems thats what they want us to do.

For the amount of times squares have been fucked over and the fact that pretty much almost any semi/pure can hunt with a DS that makes me go :drool:, it isn't unjust.

I don't see too many e-waving rogues, so I'd have to wonder, other than magical hindrance, could be so dire if you wear a helm? If you already have that many armor ranks that you can be unencumbered in MBP, it will not effect you.

[Gan]

I dont see the helm messing me up right now. However, if they institute the hindrances for hiding that will nerf a rogue's ability to hide while wearing mbp... thats when I'll probably have to revamp my strategy.

For now I'll have to find me a decent looking cooking pot to wear on my head when I get into OTF.

[Vixen]

Thank you for explaining that for me. I SHOULD know more about armor, but it seems like when I think I have a handle on it.. they change it again, and I get even stupider than I was to begin with.

That said, my warrior has mbp, so if I want to bump up the coverage with greaves and a helm and all that good stuff, I actually have to be trained for full plate? Is that how its gonna work? And if thats how it works, how many ranks is it for full plate? ( I know I know, I am a pathetic warrior)

[Izzy101]

<<That said, my warrior has mbp, so if I want to bump up the coverage with greaves and a helm and all that good stuff, I actually have to be trained for full plate?>>

Yep.

<<how many ranks is it for full plate?>>

140

<<I don't see too many e-waving rogues, so I'd have to wonder, other than magical hindrance, could be so dire if you wear a helm? If you already have that many armor ranks that you can be unencumbered in MBP, it will not effect you.>>

Adding a helm to MBP would mean he is getting full plate hinderence, and would need 140 armor ranks to avoid RT additions. Even if you don't add greaves, the head coverage makes it so you need to meet full plate requirements.


[Edited on 5-30-2005 by Izzy101]

[Trinitis]

My thoughts on the subject -

For those of you who recently shelled out lots of silver for items that are now being nerfed, I'm very sorry.

But personally, I've don't own a set of padded armor. I never have owned a set of padded armor. At level 70, I still wear 4x doubles. My warrior wears 4x hauberk, and my rogue wears 4x doubles. I have no weighted weapons (beyond the natural weighting of a claidhmore), and see no need for them, or the armor. Do I desire them? Sometimes. But I am completely unwilling to shell out 20+ million silvers, for a few ranks of crit padding/weighting.

But as I said, the blind siding of this effects some people really hard. People who just dumped a ton of silver on now a seemingly worthless set of armor. That hurts. Bad move on Simu's part. But, on the other hand, I can't see how they could have released this "gently". If they had announced they were doing this yesterday, people would still be having a fit. No win situation.

I can tell you that wearing 30 pound MBP with everything else covered and 40 pound plate with no add-ons, that the MBP with covering has much less effect on RT hindrance, or an undertrained DS penalty.

[Latrinsorm]

Actually, MBP with all the add-ons will have the same RT penalty as full plate and in almost every instance cause you to be more encumbered (which adds RT and hurts DS).

In the case you listed, you would be hugely better off in the plate, because full plate's standard weight is 75 pounds and MBP's is 25, giving you 35 pounds to play with in the full plate and 10+addonweight added to your encumbrance in the MBP.

[Jolena]

<-----is just extremely glad all her girls are either in doubles or FGB

No.

[ElanthianSiren]

Crappy, but oh well. What can you do? We could all go post how dumb it is on the official boards and be told by GMs and ass kissers alike that it's the best system ever. In the end, it's going in this way. :shrug:

What we need is a game that focuses entirely on RP -- even mechanicswise. I realize they are putting in some alt learning systems etc etc, but I don't think that will be enough as games like UL/GS etc don't have a fully integrated economy and systems in place to feed alt experience.

There are literally hundreds of muds but I've not found one that satisfies me for these requirements. When I do, I'll heads up.

-Melissa

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Stanley Burrell
No. As Stephen Colbert would say, "That established, incontrovertible fact is one side of the story." Believe what you will, mechanics don't mind.

[Nakiro]

>>Actually... if they want to fix it completely then any area not covered by your armor would have 0 armor protection. As it stands now, you're still getting SOME protection in what technically are fully uncovered areas. It's not as bad as it could be. <<

No. If you're wearing a set of plate armor on your chest, your balls aren't hanging off the side of your leg and your head isn't bare to the world. They're covered in chain armor.

You wear armor in layers and pieces. Cloth under softer leather, under rigid studded leather, under chain pieces, under platemail armor.

>>Anticor's Post

I feel for you. If right now I still had my old torso chain, I would have quit now. The change is blindsiding.

>>Uh, so, if I'm wearing torso chain and invest in a pair of arm and leg greaves, as well as a visored helm, all with VHCP, then I effectively not only have brig coverage on those areas, but now somewhat padded as well? Why is this a problem again? <<

You're no longer using torso chain. You're in full chain coverage (haubrek sp?).

[AnticorRifling]

This is bullshit I demand a free fixskills as well as all the money I spent for my armor conversion back. I can't wait till I have a few minutes free to go blowup the official boards on this. But for now my nachos are calling me.

[AnticorRifling]

http://www.play.net/forums/messages.asp?forum=102&category=14&topic=6

And I might have done a few reports too...


All the hinderance none of the padding SWEET I LOVE THIS SHIT!

[Artha]

I bet the State of Elanthia at SimuCon this year will be fun.

[AnticorRifling]

I almost want to drive the 2 hours over to it so I can protest :cool:

[AnticorRifling]

From the play.net boards:

Ohh and to the people that are going to say this is a good change, it doesn't affect me, I love GM's no matter what because I don't have a spine, or whatever else:

If this was a change that took something you trained it and killed it while at the same time managing to ensure you lose a ton of silvers (only 30m in my case I'd hate to see the bathe some folks are going to take on their high end MBP, etc) you'd be just as butt hurt if not more so. So let us vent and save your I love my fullplate/double leather/robes comments.

S/F
A still seething LBP wearing Anticor Rifling.

But it's cool because I wasted my fixskills to get into my now pointless LBP....

---------------------------------

Will saying butt hurt on the play.net boards get a post pulled? Hmm we'll see.

[Warriorbird]

"What we need is a game that focuses entirely on RP -- even mechanicswise."

Eh. It's called LARP or tabletop.

I never was one for padding. I feel bad for the folks who wasted vast amounts, however.

[AnticorRifling]

I wouldn't be so butt hurt (yes that's what I am given the amount of bitching I'm doing) if we would have had some fucking warning!

I mean I haven't even been in my new armor a week yet.

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by Stanley Burrell
I don't see too many e-waving rogues

I'm one.

Only level 40 or so so I'm still in brig.

I feel bad for the people that bought something and/or trained a certain way because of the way the armor system worked for years, only to get fucked over now.

[Edited on 5-31-2005 by Hulkein]

[Apotheosis]

these changes = big heaping pile of bullshit, just to remind everyone.

I DON'T CARE WHAT SPIN people put on it to make it look like 'not such a bad thing'. It's bullshit.. fortunately, I didn't invest massive amounts of silvers/$$ into padding, but it's still bullshit.

[StrayRogue]

Whoever says "this isn't so bad" is one of two things:
Some fucking little GM suckup who would grin even if they reduced everyone to level 1 and made us use all the same weapons.
Or..
Some poor bastard who has never seen 5 or more million of in game silvers in his or her life.
Either way their opinions aren't warranted. Fucking pricks.

[Gan]

I think what pisses me off the most is that they waited 10 days after they rolled out the new Fixskills, WITHOUT WARNING US that we might want to save the Fixskill for accomodating this change instead of using it the same day it came out for changes that were already in the works.

Three cheers again for the incompetent customer service at SIMUtronics.

[AnticorRifling]

Fuck fixskills I can ctrl + r and let the skills go back down. I can't ctrl + r and get 30m back.

[Gan]

yea,

the 30mil investment definately would have me bent

[Latrinsorm]

Before this gets even more out of hand...

If you had 20 points of crit padding on LBP (a lot), let's work out how much you got hurt.

Instead of knocking off 10 points of phantom damage (at the most), you only knock off 5 points for non-rigid areas (at the most).

So if you got hit for a rank 1 crit, you would still get hit for a rank 1 crit.

If you got hit for a rank 2 crit, you'd still get hit for a rank 1 crit.

If you got hit for a rank 3 crit, you'd get hit for a rank 2 1/6 of the time instead of a rank 1.

If you got hit for a rank 4 crit, you'd be a lousy pure. But it is around this area that the change hurts the most.

This is (clearly) NOT THAT BAD A CHANGE. It gets even less noticeable in higher armor groups, on account of big honking crit divisors.

But don't let the facts get in the way of your collective rendition of Chicken Little.

[Apotheosis]

these changes are not akin to chicken little, but they are still pure bullshit. And for every page that is added to this thread, I shall re-iterate it twice. :D

people still really lost out on an investment of time, and that is what sucks.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Yswithe
people still really lost out on an investment of time,I'd love to know how they "really lost out". Try to use things like math and facts if at all possible.

[Syberus]

Dude... that's the thing I can't understand. You people keep saying how it's "not that bad" Explain to me how it is a GOOD change and maybe it will make some sense. "Not that bad" is no fucking excuse to impliment something for no reason.

[Syberus]

WOOT SUCK MY CACKZ


In response to player concerns, we have modified our previous changes to the padding system:

Padded partial armor has been restored to allow its padding to give full protection to partially covered areas by default. If an armor accessory with the same type of padding is worn over top of either full coverage or partial armor, then only the highest level of padding will apply. For example, lightly damage padded full plate in combination with a heavily damage padded helm would result in heavy damage padding on hits to the head and light damage padding on every other type of hit.

[Apotheosis]

ok, then I'll just stop listening to all the people who a "freaking out", a nerf is still a nerf though, and it's just conditioning people to accept these sorts of things happening. and yes I know that nerfs have been going on for ages.

you honestly have got me on the math thing, but I do remember anticor buying some LBP that is now crap, he may as well wear crit padded doubles that he used to have, and i am sure there are a number of people still dealing with the hits on cuirbouilli and other armor (leather class armor sucks to begin with)..

[Latrinsorm]

K, I just rememberd I was doing the math wrong. I was doing 20 padded lights. It's even better situ for LBP.

Should it have been implemented? Probably not. This is not a good change.

However, it is nowhere near the level of badness that would justify the posts in this thread.

[StrayRogue]

Colour me shocked. I'm actually amazed they went back on an implementation. Kudos for listening to the player base on this one.

[Syberus]

I can't... I have no idea what a colour is

[StrayRogue]

It is proper English. I <3 my armoUr again.

[Fallen]

Agreed, Strayrogue. I expected some measure of compromise, though this is much better. It was a change that was not needed, nor was it called for by any of the playerbase.

Now, everyone can actually be excited for the armor/shield changes. The armor system is becoming incredibly diverse in the differing choices available to players.

1. Padding - Damage or Critical
2. Padding Accessories - Damage or Critical
3. Blended Padding - Damage + Critical
4. Enchant, up to 7x player created
5. Enchant + Padding
6. Reactive Armor/Shields for CMANS
7. Blessable Armor/Shields for CMANS
8. Non-reactive Armor
Ect Ect Ect


GOOD ON YA, SIMU!

[StrayRogue]

As soon as I gain some nice extra's my armor is gonna sell for MILLIONS now too :D

[Fallen]

I wonder if they will ever add flares/spikes to padded armor. I highly doubt it. Perhaps they will release a few sets now and then as high end raffle/auction items.

[AnticorRifling]

That announcement made my day.

[StrayRogue]

Heh, our armor might become even more valuable now too Anticor, if we get extra pieces for complete sets that is.

[AnticorRifling]

True true. Though I'm set for life in this armor I wouldn't mind finding a higher et set. If I could just get Ardwen off his ass to look some up and tell me what my next goal is for armor. :cool:

[StrayRogue]

Yeah me too. I've got a new target set and I'm already in the process of selling this armor. I really wish I could keep it but this new toy is just too awesome to pass up.

At least you'll be able to combine damage padded armor with crit padded accesories, or visa-versa. I guess that's kinda cool, right?

[Fallen]

Very cool, as you could potentially have Crit AND damage padding at the same time.

Originally posted by Latrinsorm
[quote]I'd love to know how they "really lost out". Try to use things like math and facts if at all possible.

Have you ever heard of "crit" padding? I don't even know why folks bother with damage padding in today's game, but having your heavily crit padded armor, suddenly work half as well on every body part other than your chest would FUCKING SUCK.

The only reason people buy it is because it works great against maneuver attacks.

I don't know what game you're playing, but someone that complains when there armor's protection is cut in half on 12 of 13 possible hit locations (2 hands, 2 arms, 2 legs, abdomen, back, 2 eyes, neck, head, nerves), this does not mean they are a whiner.

Luckily, the GM's have since eaten crow and turned this fiasco into an improvement.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Tea & Strumpets
having your heavily crit padded armor, suddenly work half as well on every body part other than your chest would FUCKING SUCK.
Originally posted by Latrinsorm
Try to use things like math and facts if at all possible.

[StrayRogue]

Yes it did suck. Paint it up how you like. It sucked.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Paint it up how you like.Logically? Rationally?

Your collective disbelief is not enough to disprove math. This change was not that bad.

[AnticorRifling]

Yes it was going to be that bad.

I would go from VHCP all over to VHCP on the torso only and SCP everywhere else. And their solution was to put on AAs which I can't do without a huge expense training point wise. Hell just to cover my arms again I would need 112 PTPs to cover my legs too that would be 490 PTPs and it would be impossible to cover my head and get minimum spell hinderance.

As far as padding goes SCP is shit with the current crit randomization so I'd go from sweet armor to wearing construction paper. And I'd do it without warning or a fixskill to correct it. I'm sorry but that's just retarded.

Hey everyone that owns a harley we are taking away 1 wheel and you can't do anything about it but to make up for it we are giving you training wheels to attach to the 1 wheel you have left. Please feel good about it. Fuck that.

[Latrinsorm]

Give me a number for how much padding you have and I'll prove to you exactly how wrong you are (tomorrow, as I have to go to sleep very soon today).

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Paint it up how you like.Logically? Rationally?

Your collective disbelief is not enough to disprove math. This change was not that bad.

Erm, I was getting minors when I wasn't before. That to me is annoying.

[Syberus]

As I said before... you should not being saying it's "not that bad" you should be telling us how it would have been a good change. It made no sense.

[AnticorRifling]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm
Give me a number for how much padding you have and I'll prove to you exactly how wrong you are (tomorrow, as I have to go to sleep very soon today).

VHCP over entire body vs VHCP torso only and SCP on everything else.

Please prove me wrong. Especially when I tested it by going out and getting hit and getting rank 2s faster than shit when normally I'd never see them on the endrolls I was taking. But please by all means show me the light.

[StrayRogue]

Yes, please explain why going from incredible padding on all area's to half that is somehow not that bad.

Originally posted by Latrinsorm

Originally posted by Tea & Strumpets
having your heavily crit padded armor, suddenly work half as well on every body part other than your chest would FUCKING SUCK.
Originally posted by Latrinsorm
Try to use things like math and facts if at all possible.

Oh, let me use some math then. Half = 50%.

I think you are focused on AS/DS benefits, which to me are secondary. Let's say that my very heavily crit padded full leathers reduced a 6 round stun from viper spit to a 3 round stun. Now let's roll in a new armor change, that makes my padded leathers remove half as much of the crit as it did previously and remove 1.5 rounds of the stun, leaving me with a 4.5 round stun that is rounded up to 5. So essentially, my full leathers that used to drop the wound down 3 crit ranks now only drops the wound 1 crit rank, and I'm dead.

Is that clear enough?

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Erm, I was getting minors when I wasn't before. That to me is annoying. It also has nothing to do with crit padding. No amount of crit padding can ever reduce a minor to no wound.
Originally posted by Syberus
As I said before... you should not being saying it's "not that bad" you should be telling us how it would have been a good change. It made no sense.I never intended to support this change as "good" or "anything close to reasonable". It is neither of those. However, a mildly unpleasant change is not a "THIS FUCKING SUCKS" change, and that is what I was endeavoring to disprove.
Originally posted by AnticorRifling
VHCPBecause I don't feel like getting the other comp out, I'll take a stab and say that's 16 points of crit padding.

16 points of crit padding is 8 phantom damage at most. You dropped to 16/4 or 4 phantom damage taken off. What's important to note is that crit padding doesn't even always kick in all the way. I don't know how the amount of padding is determined, but the method can only make my case stronger (if it's a purely random distribution) or have no effect (weighted towards the middle or top).

Rank 1 crits are still rank 1 crits. There's no way around this.

Rank 2 crits on the non-torso part of your LBP occur on raw damages of 10 to 14. Only at 14 would your new level of padding fail to bring this to a rank 1 crit. Even at 14 raw damage, you would only get a rank 2 half of the time. So (1/5) * (1/2) = (1/10) of the time you would be getting a rank 2. Please note that these are rank 2 *crits*, which are very rarely rank 2 *wounds* (only on the eyes, if I remember correctly). The usual difference is 5 points of damage and slightly more graphic crit messaging (i.e. nothing to worry about).

Rank 3 crits occur from 15 to 19. 15 to 18 will become rank 2 crits half the time, but your old amount of padding would do the same at 18, so only 15 to 17 are anything new. At 19, you'd get rank 3 crits half the time and rank 2 crits the other half, as compared to 2 and 1.

Rank 4 crits occur from 20 to 24. Same deal, 20-23 would be rank 3/2, with 23 being the same in the old armor. At 24, you'd start getting rank 4 crits.

Rank 5 crits occur from 25 to 29. It's around this point you'd generally be at 200 endroll, depending on weapon. 25 to 28 would still be in rank 4 range, turns to 25 to 27. 29 gets you rank 5 crits.

So let's add up some numbers, and suppose that each rank is equally likely. Rank 2 had 1/10, divide that by 5 and we have 1/50 for rank 2. Rank 3 had 4/10 for rank 2s from rank 1s, so that's 4/50 more, then 1/10 for rank 3 from rank 2, 1/50 for that. Rank 4 is another 3/50 for rank 2s from rank 1s and 3s from 2s, another 1/150 rank 3s from rank 2s, and 1/150 rank 4s from rank 3s. Rank 5 is (3/5) * (1/6) * (1/5) = 1/50 for rank 4s from 3s and rank 3s from 2s, then a contribution from 29 raw damage which is (1/5) * (1/12) * (1/5) = 1/300.

In summation:
rank 2 from rank 1 = 1/50 + 4/50 + 3/50 = 8/50 = 4/25 = 16%
rank 3 from rank 2 = 1/50 + 3/50 + 1/150 + 1/50 + 1/300 = 1/10 + 1/100 = 11%
rank 4 from rank 3 = 1/150 + 1/50 + 1/300 = 3%
rank 5 from rank 4 = 1/300 = 0.33%

This is why anecdotal evidence is worth less than what any of us flushed down the toilet today. 16%, 11%, 3%, and .33% = NOT THAT BAD.
Originally posted by Tea & Strumpets
I think you are focused on AS/DS benefits, which to me are secondary.I have never mentioned nor do I care about AS/DS.
Is that clear enough?That is not at all how the crit system works.

[StrayRogue]

I'm still waiting for why half of incredible padding is "Not that bad". I'm still waiting for an explanation as to why when I was previous dropped on my neck with my uber padder armor, I didn't die and when I did with half the padding I would die. Being hit isn't the only reason for crit padding. Some of us need it for maneuvers.

[StrayRogue]

The example I am using is 40 point damage padding btw.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
I'm still waiting for why half of incredible padding is "Not that bad".I did half of incredible lights/fulls in a previous post.
I'm still waiting for an explanation as to why when I was previous dropped on my neck with my uber padder armor, I didn't die and when I did with half the padding I would die. Being hit isn't the only reason for crit padding. Some of us need it for maneuvers. Ok, let's say you were getting hit for a rank 9 wound to the neck in fulls. For any padding to make sense, there must be a version of raw damage done and a crit divisor. Let's say you have 20 points of crit padding (pretty doggone uber). That would reduce the rank 9 max to a rank 6 (not too shabby, but would still get you killed about half the time, depending on the crit). But oh no the big mean change comes along!! You would get the crit reduced to a rank 7 (now you'd get killed 60% of the time!! oh no a 10% increase!!). As you approach 37 "raw damage" the effects would approach equality.
The example I am using is 40 point damage padding btw. Damage padding is crap and we both know it. But yes, the crap you'd have would be even crappier when you cut it in half.

[AnticorRifling]

Who the hell wears full leathers?!

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Tea & Strumpets
my very heavily crit padded full leathersThat fella. I can do it for your (hypothetical) incredibly padded LBP too:

20 points of padding
rank 9 becomes rank 7 with the old padding.
rank 9 becomes rank 8 with new padding.
Chances of dying raised by ~5%.

[Fallen]

Those sorcerers who want 0% hindrance.

[StrayRogue]

Or people who can't afford good armor.

[Valgaav]

didnt the new revision to that change make it so you still kept you padding at its normal level even in areas thats not covered

for example they said light leather with decently crit padded and you get hit on the head you's still have the decent crit padded

and if you added assessories it'd only take the highest of the two weightings so if you had a helm with heavy crit padding on that decent crit padded light leather you'd get
heavy crit padding when hit on the head

only when you mix two different paddings or flares on you armor will you get the 1/2 paddng

like if you have light leather with decent crit padding and have a heavy DAMAGE padded helm on you'd get 1/2 crit(decent) and 1/2 (heavy) damage padding.

same applies if you add flaring accessories or spiked.

now to me it seems like if you dont wear any opposing padding or flaring accessories your armor isnt affect, infact it's even better since you can upgrade you padding if you find something better

for example if you have fgb and find a incredible crit padded helm, you'd get incredible crit padding on you head and heavy everywhere else

so in essense it's an enhancement on the armor system as it gives you more room to upgrade instead of just throwing away a full set of armor for a higher padding armor you can just accessorize

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Valgaav
didnt the new revision to that change make it so you still kept you padding at its normal level even in areas thats not covered Yes.

I'm still right about the old change though. :saint:

I'm gonna decorate my ASG 0 character (nekkid torso) with head, neck and limb critical or damage padded accesories. That's pretty cool.

[AnticorRifling]

Sure if you look at extremes. Look at hits that make say casting impossible. Just need a pair of rank 2s. It's alot harder to get those with VHCP vs SCP I don't care how you look at it.

Originally posted by Latrinsorm

I'm still right about the old change though. :saint:

You're welcome to stick your head in the sand if you like. :D

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by AnticorRifling
Sure if you look at extremes. Look at hits that make say casting impossible. Just need a pair of rank 2s. It's alot harder to get those with VHCP vs SCP I don't care how you look at it. A lot easier, to me, would mean something like 30%, 50% more likely. The fact of the matter is that you would get de-castified more often. It would happen about once in every 20 hunts.

[Insodus]

I think basically it comes down to this, people with crit padded gear hate it, and poor people don't care.

Needless to say, it didnt HELP anything, so theres no way it could be good. Its either not too bad, or real bad, depending on your point of view. Se lets stop arguing. Its all gone now anyway and some of us got some neat padded accessories out of it :)

[Parkbandit]

I was all for this change.. because it would then force Anticor to join us in WoW.

[Fallen]

I was all for this change.. because it would then force Anticor to join us in WoW. >>

Yep. Sadly, now the armor system is more appealing than ever. Padded accessories, reactive and non-reactive armor and armor accessories. Blessable armor, ect ect.

[AnticorRifling]

I might train up to cuirb if I got ahold of some nasty arm greaves :cool:

[Heshinar]

As someone who played GS on GENie back in the day and then played for a few years upto about 3 years ago and then came back I think those in charge are not paying attention to what is fun.

When I left 3 years ago you could log on at anytime and see almost 1000 people. I have yet to see the count go over 800 and more of an average of 300. By what stretch of the imagination does GS think they are doing things to improve the game.

Doesn't it seem that their actions are actually destroying a great game?

I have 4X Doubles. Black Stalking Leathers. Full coverage no padding. I do not see a reason to buy anything else as long as I am careful about it.

Heshinar

[Drew]

They did roll back these changes just so you know. They never came into being.

fuck

[Heshinar]

I think my point is still valid.

What the hell are the GMs doing and why do they not see the loss of players as a direct result of this.

[Fallen]

think my point is still valid.

What the hell are the GMs doing and why do they not see the loss of players as a direct result of this. >>

They made a change, the bulk of the players did not like that change, so they altered the change. As to why they thought they could just walk up and slap padded partial armor users in the face? You got me. It didn't take them long at all to come to their senses.

Now, the armor system is only for the better. Partial padded armor accessories, non-reactive/reactive accessories. Fun stuff.

[Landrion]

Originally posted by Heshinar
I think my point is still valid.

What the hell are the GMs doing and why do they not see the loss of players as a direct result of this.

What do you think they should change to win back lots of players? Im sure theyd like to know.

[Syberus]

Stop charging more for a text game than blizzard does for a graphical one may be a good start