If you say it enough times...

[Ravenstorm]

So right after Saturday Night Live is Showtime at the Apollo. Which means, I usually have half an eye on it as I'm on the computer. Sometimes they even have entertaining acts. This isn't about them. It isn't about the bad acts either.

No, it's about the hostess, Monique. Now look, she's not a horrible looking woman. She's one of those 'oh, you could be so attractive if you lost two hundred pounds' women. Which is what this post is about...

Just when did being an obese black woman become a good thing?? I'm sorry but being a 'big girl' is not something to celebrate any more than being a fat white guy is. So seriously, what the hell is up with this shit? Did they just say it often enough and now they believe it?

Raven


[Edited on 5-30-2004 by Ravenstorm]

[Drew2]

Big is beautiful.

[Ilvane]

Because it's anti-society. Our society wants tiny skinny women on TV. She is not that, and is just as pretty. Not to mention she's funny.

She doesn't need to lose 200 pounds to look better either. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so you have your right to your opinion, but just because you don't appreciate it, doesn't mean someone else doesn't.

Some men like blondes, brunettes, or redheads..and some prefer curvy or chubby, or even full figured!


-A

[Kurili]

Ya know Ravenstorm, I have wondered the same dang thing.

Why is a 300# black woman beautiful, and a white woman with 20# extra is a heifer? And no, I am not racist. It just makes me wonder.

All I can figure is that they must have a whole lot more self-esteem than we plump white women have.

And incredibly, while watching 'American Idol' with a black family, they were making repeated references to Diana's weight problem, including calling her a heifer. The male of this couple was 5'8" and in the 250# range, and his wife wore a 4x sweatshirt. A snug one. She was well over 300#.

Makes ya wonder.


Kurili

[Ravenstorm]

I'm not saying she she's ugly. I'm not saying she needs to squeeze down to a size three. I'm not saying she needs to hide or be ashamed. But neither is it something to throw a party over. Being obese is not a good thing. Period. There is absolutely no question of that. And she is not chunky. She is not packing a few extra pounds. She's obese. If it doesn't bother her? Fine. But don't go on about how obesity is a fine and wonderful thing. It's not.

And I'm also wondering why some black women have bought into this while white women have not.

Somewhere in between the two extremes would be ideal.

Raven

edited to add the word 'some'

Also edited to add that I find most supermodels to be unattractively thin (though granted it's purely an aesthetic issue for me).


[Edited on 5-30-2004 by Ravenstorm]

[Ilvane]

It would be nice if the society we lived in didn't place such value on how much you weigh. There'd be a whole lot less girls with eating disorders, or depression that's for sure. And self esteem issues wouldn't be as prevalant.

Of course, people can always find things to say about people.

If she's happy the way she is, good for her. It's not for us to judge whether it's good for her or not.

-A

[Ravenstorm]

Except that she's promoting obesity. That's my only problem with it.

"But Mama. I don't need to lose weight or watch what I'm eating. Monique says being a big girl is a good thing!"

No, it's not. It doesn't make her a bad person or even a terribly unattractive one. She's rather good looking for, yes you guessed it, someone her size. But being obese is not a good thing and no one can claim otherwise.

I've defended the overweight issue in the past and will continue to do so, especially since I'm packing more than a few extra pounds myself. But I have never tried to claim that being fat is good for you.

Raven

[ThisOtherKingdom]

She's not saying being fat is healthy, she's saying that can still feel sexy and still IS sexy the way she looks.

[Back]

I like my women chunky. They probably wouldn't like that term but hey, give me meat over skin and bones any day. Those renaissance dudes didn't paint all those nudes because they were ugly.

[Galleazzo]

So I don't get it. Does this character get on the TV and say "Eat all you can to get bloated like me and you'll look great?"

Or is it just that there's this show, and she's just the host, and she just happens to weigh a lot?

That ain't "promoting" obesity, guy. That's being obese. You think Jay Leno "promotes" being a middle-aged white guy from Boston just because the host of Tonight Show is a middle-aged white guy from Boston?

Kinda reminds me of a crack one of my daughter's friends made last year at the beach. Bunch of middle-aged and older folks were out there in bathing suits, and a lot had extra pounds and flabby guts. And this little chippy comes out with "Ewww, don't they have any respect, coming out here looking like that?" I sorta got the idea Little Miss Perfect wanted everyone over 29 not buff and pumped to just drop dead. So what the fuck, overweight people and old people don't get to go swimming or wear shorts and sleeveless Ts when it's 90 degrees out?

They all got the right to live too.

:grr:

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by Galleazzo
Does this character get on the TV and say "Eat all you can to get bloated like me and you'll look great?"

Or is it just that there's this show, and she's just the host, and she just happens to weigh a lot?

No, it's not just that she weighs a lot. I have absolutely no problem with people who are overweight. In fact, she's a very attractive woman for someone her size. (That she can buy dresses tailored to her, as well as makeup and hairstyle artists for the show surely plays a part in that).

But the whole 'obese is fine' message is what I don't get, especially how and where black women bought into it. Yes, you can be sexy and vastly over weight. That doesn't make it good for you. (And most obese people don't look as good as she does too.)

So yes, she certainly does have a right to live. But promoting how sexy obesity can be is not really a great message to buy into any more than going on about how sexy anorexia is.

Raven

[Meos]

Opera....

She turned fat into, OH NO YOU DIDN'T!

[Galleazzo]

I still don't get it. What does she do that promotes obesity, exactly?

[Kuyuk]

Yeah, I havent quite figured out what Raven is trying to say. He(or She) avoided your question Galleazzo.

:eek:

^ Added cause he's cute.


K.

[Ilvane]

She doesn't promote obesity, at all. She just promotes that she is okay the way she is. I don't understand what you are saying at all Raven.

People come in all shapes and sizes, and no one should be pressured to be thin or heavy, or whatever.

-A

Often with those type of people many like to make the... "Im Big and Beautiful" comments over and over. Turn on Rikki Lake or something and you will see it again and again.

That might be what Raven is trying to say.

Originally posted by Ilvane
Because it's anti-society. Our society wants tiny skinny women on TV. She is not that, and is just as pretty. Not to mention she's funny.

She doesn't need to lose 200 pounds to look better either. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so you have your right to your opinion, but just because you don't appreciate it, doesn't mean someone else doesn't.

Some men like blondes, brunettes, or redheads..and some prefer curvy or chubby, or even full figured!


-A
Look at it in a different perspective. America is the fattest country in the world, and that is a big problem. There are far to may obese people walking around that are not willing to take care of their bodies. In the end who pays for that me, you and everyone else.

There is a large societal difference between white culture and Black culture when it comes to what is considered attractive as well To demonstrate this I will use a few words from a well known song
I like big butts and I can not lie
You other brothers can't deny
That when a girl walks in with an itty bitty waste
And a round thing in your face
You get sprung
Wanna pull up front
Cuz you notice that butt was stuffed
Deep in the jeans she's wearing
I'm hooked and I can't stop staring
Oh, baby I wanna get with ya
And take your picture
My homeboys tried to warn me
But with that butt you got
Me so horny
Ooh, rub all of that smooth skin
You say you wanna get in my Benz
Well use me, use me cuz you ain't that average groupy

As you can see the man that sings it Likes big butts, and he can not lie.
He happens to be black.

I hope I helped
:whistle:

[Ilvane]

:lol:

Well, I understand the difference between black society and white, but what I don't understand is why if the country is big..Wouldn't she be more representative of this country than say..Britney Spears?

(heh, and oddly enough..the press has been on her for being a tiny bit overweight) Though I wish I had her abs..:lol:

-A

[Myshel]

I think if you asked Monique if she would rather weigh 250 lbs or 150, she would answer 150. Very few people choose to be fat, its partly genetic and partly because of the unlimited food sources we have in this country. Until this century fat people were the ones that were admired, because they could afford to buy food. People who's bodies were the most efficent at storing fat, where the people who survived famines.

As a former *chunky* woman, I spent my life looking for the perfect diet. I had a whole shelf devoted to all the diet books, exercise books I had. I would lose it and gain it back, many many times. Until illness took out much of my stomach and a change in body chemistry, I fought my weight. I was an attractive woman heavy, tried to carry myself proud, dressed well, but if you had asked me if I wanted to lose the weight I would have said yes.

I personaly find a body like brittney's more attractive.

[Ilvane]

I agree Edine, most people are programmed that way.:)

-A

[Weedmage Princess]

I'm sure Monique could have a body like Britney if she really wanted to. Anyone could, actually. It only cost Britney upwards of $75,000. Might cost Monique a bit more but hey, she's rich, she can afford it. ;)

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by Ilvane
She is not that, and is just as pretty.


???? No she isn't.

And no, she couldn't have Britney Spears body. She could get all the plastic surgery in the world and she would still be at the very BEST chunky and disproportioned.

If it was that easy to look like Miss Spears she wouldn't be as popular as she is.

[Edited on 5-30-2004 by Hulkein]

[longshot]

Originally posted by Ilvane
It would be nice if the society we lived in didn't place such value on how much you weigh. There'd be a whole lot less girls with eating disorders, or depression that's for sure. And self esteem issues wouldn't be as prevalant.


-A

I disagree.

I wish we lived in a society that actually understood that the condition of your body is directly related to how you feel as a person.

I wish people would understand that it takes self discipline and control to be healthy.

I wish people would understand that there is no quick fix to being healthy or looking good. There's no miracle pill that will drop 20 pounds of fat.

We coddle every screwup... it's like all that matters is trying, and nobody cares about results anymore.

In Japan, you are openly ridiculed if you are obese. It's the way it should be.

Only in America would have, "Oh, it's the inside that counts... would you like extra gravy on your fried steak?"

Big is not beautiful. Big is lazy.

[Weedmage Princess]

Actually, Hulkein, if she kept up with a diet and routine exercise (probably would need a trainer) she could too have a body like that. To summarize what the doctor told my uncle (who's having an emergency procedure similar to this because he has a heart and lung condition that can't afford to wait the time it would take for him to lose the weight naturally) It might take a bit of time after the operation and would definitely take work but he most certainly COULD develop his body afterwards. There is danger with those sort of surgical procedures as well but if the operation is a success, a lot of times the people wind up as you said because they won't keep with the dieting and exercise. They think it's a quick fix and little to no work is required after getting off the operating table--and of course that's not the case.

If you're not obese, just a bit overweight...then the risk factors go WAY down and though work is still needed, it's not nearly as difficult. Look at all the plastic surgery make-over shows on TV. Only thing that's stopped these people prior was the cost factor. :shrug:

As far as the whole big is beautiful thing--well beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I know quite a few guys in this country (Black, White, Hispanic and Asian) who like their women chunky (maybe not Monique chunky but definitely way heavier than what you see on TV and in magazines) ...some women like chunky men...bear types. I say if you're happy with what you look like, that's all that matters. Of course there's the health factor and being that way does come with increased risks healthwise, but if they're not bothered with their health, have their own health coverage...then who are we to say they need to lose weight? Live and let live I say...as long as you aren't putting anyone else at an inconvenience, do what you gotta.

[Edited on 5-30-2004 by Weedmage Princess]

[Hulkein]

Well Weedmage, from what I've seen on those makeover shows, you can definitely get down to a nice body and be in shape, but you're never going to be pretty much perfectly proportioned. Now that's not to say you can't be fit and pretty good looking, but to go from 300 pounds to 120 pounds of tight skin and muscle (for women) that's pretty much impossible.

[Ilvane]

I beg to differ with you Longshot.

I was Mo'Nique overweight and never had a problem, no high blood pressure, no high cholesterol, no circulation problems. In addition to that, I worked out 5 days a week 45 minutes a day, and ate in moderation. I had a medical problem with digestion to start with, and it had nothing to do with my activity level or my diet.

Sure there are people that eat way too much, and are overweight because of that, but it's not always the case.

I'm still considered overweight, but I don't care, because I know I'm healthy(I still work out 5 times a week, now an hour a day) and my cholesterol, blood sugar, blood pressure and circulation are all fine.:)

-A

[Weedmage Princess]

Overnight, Hulkein, I agree. But over a period of 3-4 years? Sure they can. That's where the snip and nips, tummy tucks and other fine tuning procedures come in. ;)

Mmm...

More cushion for the pushin'

[Bobmuhthol]

I agree with Ravenstorm fully on this one.

[Ravenstorm]

Alright... I really didn't think it was such a complicated statement that it required elaborate explanation. But now it's afternoon instead of early morning, I'll give it a shot.

Notice how I didn't say 'OMG, how could that fat ugly bitch call herself sexy??!' I didn't say that because that has nothing to do with the issue. This has almost nothing to do with Monique at all really except that she's one example of what seems to be a growing trend.

But to get to Monique quickly... Yes, she is a rather attractive obese woman. If she's happy, fine. Everyone should be happy. But almost every time I see her - which is admittedly only once a week - she's pushing the big girls can be sexy line. She poses for the camera. She gets the ones in the audience to sit up front. She tells the audience to applaud them. She's brought them up on stage to show their moves. 'Come on up here, big girls. Show the people what you got.'

And note, we're not talking 'merely' overweight: not 10 pounds. Not 25 pounds. I'm specifically talking about obesity: 80-100+ pounds overweight. Can someone obese be sexy? Yes, /some/ can be if they learn how to dress, do their hair, makeup, etc. Know what? They can also be sexy if they were to lose weight. And they'd be healthier too.

Ilvane: yes there are medical reasons for weight gain. No arguement at all. I said as much in the past on a thread about weight gain. And if you yourself have none of the associated health problems linked to obesity? That's great. I wouldn't wish them on anyone. Would you have developed some of them in the future? Very possibly. Maybe not but also, you work out five times a week and I'm willing to put money down most obese people don't. There is absolutely no question that diabetes is linked ot obesity. Chances are much, much greater that they will develop it the longer they stay obese. That's a medical fact and that's only one of the health related problems that goes hand in hand with it.

But this isn't about any of that. From my first post:


Just when did being an obese black woman become a good thing?

Because it is not a good thing. For every perfectly healthy obese person there's got to be ten with weight related medical problems and even more who will develop them down the line. There is absolutely NO good thing about being obese. None. It is not good for you. Period. So to turn it into something to be celebrated is ridiculous. Getting back to Monique a minute, she doesn't go on about how to minimize health complications when you're obese. No, she just goes on about how it can be sexy and how big fat women should be applauded by the audience.

And I'm specifically singling out (some) black women because they're the only ones (that I have seen anyway) who seem to buy into that line. The lyrics Edine quoted is a good example.

So no, I'm not saying you need to look like Britney. You certainly shouldn't look like Kate Moss (*gag* if anyone remembers her). If you don't fit the admittedly unrealistic concept of female beauty in America, don't sweat it. That is not the same though as going on about how being three hundred pounds can be sexy and should be applauded.

Raven

[Bobmuhthol]

<<That's a medical fact and that's only one of the health related problems that goes hand in hand with it.>>

You'd have more trouble finding something that wasn't negatively affected by obesity. Almost every condition evar is worsened.

[Artha]

Not to mention that cancer risks go way up.

[Souzy]

I think some girls can't help but be thick or big boned. No matter how much they try, nothing works. And I think Monique is happy the way she is. She's successful and proud to look the way she does. Unless you rake in just as much as her, hmmm...STFU? Thick girls need love too. Oh yeah, some guys do like big girls. I know many that do, I have no idea why, but they prefer all that, compared to skin and bones. :shrug:

[Bobmuhthol]

Unfortunately, life is not all cosmetic, completely nullifying everything you just said.

[Pallon]

All I know is, watching The Parkers killed part of my soul

[Weedmage Princess]

Originally posted by Pallon
All I know is, watching The Parkers killed part of my soul

:lol:

That show is awful.

[Weedmage Princess]

Wrong thread nevermind.

[Edited on 5-30-2004 by Weedmage Princess]

[Mistomeer]

I think she's hot cause I really like the Diva Milkshake video. That's real hot. I think she could do that well, thus she is hot.

All women ARE beautiful. It is unfortunate that these brainwashing tactics have been been emphasized and etched into our minds about how a female will be more 'respectable' in regards to their physical appearance (mainly as to how being 'attractive' has endless connotations whether sexually, or not.)

Quite frankly, any woman who can beat me in Yankees trivia and at the same time accumulate enough body mass to put me in a full-nelson, has won my heart over. ..Long as she doesn't crush it.

[Satira]

You know, this whole thread pisses me off. You know why? Because it's focusing on women.

There are plenty of stupid fat ass guys walking around on TV shows with GREAT roles, and you're never going to see one fucking thing about how fat they are. Look at Tony Soprano. And they have him screwing every beautiful girl in the world on that show. And don't even try to tell me that's the only example because there are PLENTY of other ones I can come up with.

One fucking large woman shows up with a great attitude and it's just HORRIBLE that she's promoting being fat.

This whole COUNTRY promotes being fat and then criticizes the people who are.

Food is sold in gigantic qualities with tons of fat and calories. Super sized, jumbo sized, STOMACH EXPLODING sized.

GOOD FOR MONIQUE for giving some attention to these women. If you're going to fill a magazine full of 95 pound stick women, if she wants to bring fat people on stage to let them feel good about themself for a minute, fine by me.

I'm not saying that being obese should be celebrated, but SELF CONFIDENCE should regardless of your weight. When you're obese and fat, you're completely put down in this society. So she brought them up on stage to give them a little fucking CONFIDENCE. GOOD.

Fucking skin and bone women are applauded everyday in this country. They're the source of beauty, they take up all the magazines and media. It's bullshit, and it makes most regular women feel like shit. So if she wants to go out there and give them some source of confidence, then yeah I would applaud that too.

Weight isn't all cut and dry like many assholes try to make it. Yes, some people are completely out of control and never do anything and that's simply because they're lazy. But there are plenty of other scenarios BEYOND that, that can affect your weight. There are digestive problems, circulation problems, and thyroid problems that can completely control your body. You can eat healthy, in perfect amounts, and work out and you're STILL going to be fat. Sometimes, REALLY FAT.

I suggest people saying "if you're fat you're lazy" get out a fucking medical dictionary and read up.

[Edited on 5-31-2004 by Lady Satira]

[Edited on 5-31-2004 by Lady Satira]

[Edaarin]

It's different, women aren't people like the rest of us. They were created by our lord Jesus Christ solely for our amusement. They're also insanely shallow, so as long as a guy has money or power, he can be a half ton and still tumble as many girls as he wants into the sack.

The above is to be taken in jest, which should be evidenced by my mention of Jesus. I'm a Classics buff, but even I know mythology isn't real. Now that I've offended 98% of the boards, I'll go back to my completely random posts. :whistle:

[Bobmuhthol]

I didn't read your entire post, and I most likely won't, but men don't get tons of publicity because they're fat fucks that some people find attractive. You're saying that a fat chick that goes on about how sexy it is to be fat is even remotely similar to an Italian mobster that happens to be overweight? Plus you're comparing a person with a character. If you want to go with the actor, remove mobster from and it's the same thing.

Nobody is saying, 'I'm underweight and I'm sexy,' so why is it so awe-inspiring to have a fat chick say, 'I'm obese and I'm sexy.' I think she means, 'I'm obese and that makes me FUCKING FAT.'

Be fat. Don't comment on it. If you're going to be commenting on yourself/others for being overweight and looking good to some people (certainly not me), then I should have every right to say, "Hey, you're fucking fat" without any problems. They're the ones bringing up the entire weight discussion, we're continuing it. Ravenstorm didn't make a post about how fat people suck. His point was that fat people calling themselves sexy because they're fat is not a good thing to do.

That pretty much sums up how I feel on the matter. Feel free to attack me because of my opinion, but continue to talk about how Monique love you long time.

[CrystalTears]

The difference is that fat women are glorifying their fat as though it's something to look up to, as opposed to fat men who don't typically do that.

Personally, I'm fat and I'm not ashamed of it. I'm working on it. I like me for who I am and I don't have a problem with being me at all. However I KNOW that being fat is not good for me health-wise. I don't stand around and say "it's great to be fat" because it's not. It's bad for your body.

I understood what Ravenstorm was trying to say. One thing is to be proud of who you are, and another is wallowing in the fat. Losing weight is hard, I know this, but staying fat should never be an option. It's just bad for you, and to somehow "accept" that you're fat and move on is not really the answer. Accept it? Yes. Give up the fight to improve your health? No.

[Ravenstorm]

CT is the one of the most sensible woman I have ever know. A shame she's taken. And female, of course.

Raven

[Bobmuhthol]

Also, Tony Soprano could kick your ass no matter how much he weighs. Fat chicks can't. They can only crush you.

[Edaarin]

On another note, big black women = scary when they're mad...I wouldn't back down from a fight with RangerD1 or Anticor but if a big black woman started yelling at me I'd run for the nearest exit.

[GSLeloo]

The fact is, if she's that overweight it's not a factor of how she wants society to see herself, it's how long does she want to live. The more you weigh the more stress your body is put on every day just to function normally. She could be risking her own life just by staying that healthy. Being at a healthy weight is the best thing and that doesn't mean a size 2 but it also isn't size 30.

[Satira]

I didn't have a problem with Raven. It was some of the others.

I'm ignoring Bob from now on. Although, using a character as an example was wrong. Here's another. Sean Connery.

Edited to add: Tony Soprano SHOOTS people. I'm sure some fat woman could do that to you too.

[Edited on 5-31-2004 by Lady Satira]

[Bobmuhthol]

Being right certainly does suck.

[Back]

In another time, being chuncky meant a sign of prosperity. Now we know its not exactly healthy to be prosperous?

[Satira]

Being chunky or having a few extra pounds is fine. It's being OBESE or extremely overweight that's going to effect your health.

[GSLeloo]

Being overweight meant you were wealthy enough to buy that much food... it really does mess your body up though. I mean, we're not talking about a 5'4 woman weighing 160. We're talking 200+ pounds. Of course it's also height dependent... but obesity is becoming the highest cause of deaths in this country.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<Tony Soprano SHOOTS people. I'm sure some fat woman could do that to you too.>>

He also pummels people hardcore.

A fat woman might be able to shoot me, but I'm sure if you gave a gun to every fat woman most of them would end up doing something wrong. So comparing a single person to a group of people is pretty dumb.

[CrystalTears]

How is Sean Connery an example? He's a strapping, handsome man. Now I'm totally confused how that fits in here.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<but obesity is becoming the highest cause of deaths in this country.>>

As much as I respect what you have to say, this sounds like it came from some dumbass that failed medical school. Obesity triggers diseases, increases risks, and is generally unhealthy. You don't die of being obese.

[Satira]

Sean Connery is not a strapping man. He's a fat old man with a Scottish accent that women like.

[Back]

I'm going to plug another website I worked on. I didn't design it, but I built it from the designers work. Had to do it through a web interface too, which I'm not used to.

As computer savy as I am, on a Mac and with graphics, it worked out. So here is the link. (http://www.acfn.org)

It actually relates to the subject at hand.

[Satira]

Pretty website.

At least they're telling people to take it in steps... that's really good. I think a lot of times people try to completely overhaul everything they're doing and then they fail.

[Back]

Originally posted by Lady Satira
Pretty website.

Thats Scott's work. He's from Philly, with his wife, working as designer at a communications firm. Looking at him, you would never figure him from a cool graphic artist. But he is good, no doubt.

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
You don't die of being obese.

Don't split hairs. You don't die from smoking either but that's just as common a phrase. They both often lead to conditions that can cause illness or death.

Raven

[Edited on 5-31-2004 by Ravenstorm]

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by Lady Satira
You know, this whole thread pisses me off. You know why? Because it's focusing on women.

There are plenty of stupid fat ass guys walking around on TV shows with GREAT roles, and you're never going to see one fucking thing about how fat they are. Look at Tony Soprano. And they have him screwing every beautiful girl in the world on that show. And don't even try to tell me that's the only example because there are PLENTY of other ones I can come up with.

One fucking large woman shows up with a great attitude and it's just HORRIBLE that she's promoting being fat.

This whole COUNTRY promotes being fat and then criticizes the people who are.

Food is sold in gigantic qualities with tons of fat and calories. Super sized, jumbo sized, STOMACH EXPLODING sized.

GOOD FOR MONIQUE for giving some attention to these women. If you're going to fill a magazine full of 95 pound stick women, if she wants to bring fat people on stage to let them feel good about themself for a minute, fine by me.

I'm not saying that being obese should be celebrated, but SELF CONFIDENCE should regardless of your weight. When you're obese and fat, you're completely put down in this society. So she brought them up on stage to give them a little fucking CONFIDENCE. GOOD.

Fucking skin and bone women are applauded everyday in this country. They're the source of beauty, they take up all the magazines and media. It's bullshit, and it makes most regular women feel like shit. So if she wants to go out there and give them some source of confidence, then yeah I would applaud that too.

Weight isn't all cut and dry like many assholes try to make it. Yes, some people are completely out of control and never do anything and that's simply because they're lazy. But there are plenty of other scenarios BEYOND that, that can affect your weight. There are digestive problems, circulation problems, and thyroid problems that can completely control your body. You can eat healthy, in perfect amounts, and work out and you're STILL going to be fat. Sometimes, REALLY FAT.

I suggest people saying "if you're fat you're lazy" get out a fucking medical dictionary and read up.

[Edited on 5-31-2004 by Lady Satira]

[Edited on 5-31-2004 by Lady Satira]

Fatty.

[Hulkein]

I'll just post to follow up that my prior post was in a joking manner since I know it won't be taken as so. I have no idea what Satira looks like.

[Satira]

We don't know what I look like, but we all know you're a dickhead.

Edited to say that, I, as well meant that in a joking manner.

[Edited on 5-31-2004 by Lady Satira]

[Hulkein]

Yeah I'm in a bad mood. I just wasted 8.50 on the pile of shit known as The Day After Tomorrow.

[Ravenstorm]

Sean Connery is indeed packing a few extra pounds. Monique though is indeed obese which Sean Connery is not. There is a very big difference. If Monique had been going on about you can be heavier than the stereotypical American model and still be sexy, this thread wouldn't exist.

You also don't see, as has been pointed out, obese white guys going on about how being an obese white guy can be sexy. And that's really what the thread was about...

WTF is up with this 'obese is sexy' shit? Cause it's not. Some obese women can be sexy anyway. Obesity itself isn't. It's also not good for you. It shouldn't be celebrated. It shouldn't be encouraged. By all means, make the most of what you've got. Look as good as you can. No matter what you weigh, you shouldn't hide in the closet. But just don't pretend it's a good thing. I didn't think that's a difficult concept or even one people would argue with. Color me surprised.

Raven

[Bobmuhthol]

<<Some obese women can be sexy anyway.>>

I disagree. When these people that claim they look good can actually pull it off, I might care. No matter what your weight is, if you're an ugly whore you need to stop acting like you're not an ugly whore. The hot chicks are always the ones that don't demand attention.

It's sexy to be Bobmuhthol.

[Satira]

Again, Raven, I wasn't disagreeing with you.

The basis for my post was actually longshot's post.

[Back]

Originally posted by Ravenstorm
You also don't see, as has been pointed out, obese white guys going on about how being an obese white guy can be sexy. And that's really what the thread was about...

Raven

Haven't you seen Austin Powers, International Man of Mystery?

[Satira]

:lol: Oh RIGHT how could I forget about THAT one.

[Bobmuhthol]

http://www.columbia.edu/cu/thefed/v2/archives/17/17.8/images/fat.jpg

[Satira]

WHY does that man have on a diaper?!

[Bobmuhthol]

I don't know, it was the first result in a Google image search for 'fat.'

[Satira]

It would also probably be the first when searching for Fat Nerd In Diaper.

[Ravenstorm]

I think Queen Latifah is an excellent example of a 'full figured' woman who is both attractive and sexy. She was never unattractive but now that she isn't obese and she got a breast reduction, she's ten times better looking and probably much healthier overall as well.

Raven

[CrystalTears]

However what made Queen Latifa MORE attractive was that she didn't flaunt her obesity because she knew it was a bad thing. She's proud of herself and has incredible self-esteem and that is what made her beautiful.

[Artha]

It would also probably be the first when searching for Fat Nerd In Diaper.

No. (http://images.google.com/images?q=fat+nerd+in+a+diaper&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search) :(

[DeV]

Originally posted by Ravenstorm
Just when did being an obese black woman become a good thing?? I'm sorry but being a 'big girl' is not something to celebrate any more than being a fat white guy is. So seriously, what the hell is up with this shit? Did they just say it often enough and now they believe it?

Raven


[Edited on 5-30-2004 by Ravenstorm] Well Raven, I can't really answer your question as I'm a 130 lb. size 6 wearing black woman. What I'd like to know is where you heard that being big was a "good thing". Would you rather her have been depressed and mopey on TV wallowing in her fatness? Or would you rather see her celebrating the fact that yes, she is big but that does not mean she doesn't have to not enjoy life, or the job she does. Just because a person is big doesnt mean they can't be happy about something.

By the way this was a :weirdthread:

[CrystalTears]

Please read the entire thread so that we don't have to go through the explanation again. Thanks. :banghead:

[DeV]

I'm just commenting on the first post. I'm not looking for explanations, so feel free to offer me none. :)

[CrystalTears]

Because he, along with others, expand on what the point of the matter was, since the gist wasn't understandable at first.

[Ravenstorm]

Yeah, what she said.

Raven

[DeV]

Originally posted by Ravenstorm

Just when did being an obese black woman become a good thing?

Because it is not a good thing. For every perfectly healthy obese person there's got to be ten with weight related medical problems and even more who will develop them down the line. There is absolutely NO good thing about being obese. None. It is not good for you. Period. So to turn it into something to be celebrated is ridiculous. Getting back to Monique a minute, she doesn't go on about how to minimize health complications when you're obese. No, she just goes on about how it can be sexy and how big fat women should be applauded by the audience.

And I'm specifically singling out (some) black women because they're the only ones (that I have seen anyway) who seem to buy into that line. The lyrics Edine quoted is a good example.

Raven Ok, read it and my point still stands. No, its not healthy to be obese. It's not ok to promote obesity, but come now, who really looks at it as a fashion statement or some up and coming fad. When Monique incorporates that into her act, its just that, an act. Perhaps she does it to make other big women feel better about themselves for one moment but in reality no one wants to be that big. Some black women have a harder time with it then others. It all starts in the diet/exercise, and there in lies the problem.

[CrystalTears]

I've seen lots of women who make it fashion statement and glority their weight. Not so much to be proud of who you are, but saying "bigger is better". C'mon I think Jerry Springer had a show dedicated to women who feel that way. It's not a good outlook to have nor to spread out to people.

Sure you should feel better about yourself, but the motivational things they should be hearing are that getting healthy may be hard yet not impossible, not staying fat is good. It's not.

[The Eternal Klaive]

Originally posted by longshot

In Japan, you are openly ridiculed if you are obese. It's the way it should be.


Unless you're sumo, right?

Eh, I think that's the way it should be with everything a person feels is a flaw, and not just physical things.

It's true that as a society, we are far too PC. But it'll only get worse, never better.

[DeV]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
I've seen lots of women who make it fashion statement and glority their weight. Not so much to be proud of who you are, but saying "bigger is better". C'mon I think Jerry Springer had a show dedicated to women who feel that way. It's not a good outlook to have nor to spread out to people.

Sure you should feel better about yourself, but the motivational things they should be hearing are that getting healthy may be hard yet not impossible, not staying fat is good. It's not. I saw he was using Monique as an example, and thats what I was going off of. I have also seen ignorant people who glorify being big and unhealthy and truly mean it. You mentioned Jerry Spring and Im not surprised, are you? That show will glorofy any and everything. The bottom line is this, we know the health risks in being overweight. I wouldnt consider it a fashion statement at all if someone was happy about being that size, and I mean truly happy inside and out. I would consider it very sad.

[Ravenstorm]

I used Monique as an example because I happened to be watching Showtime at the Apollo at the time and that's what sparked it. More often than not, she's making a positive issue of being a 'big girl': not just herself but audience members. Though now I think of it, she never once mentions the big fat guys in the audience so there's a definite double standard going on there too. Where are all the sexy obese men? :P

Raven

[Bobmuhthol]

Just read my posts. You'll be so enlightened you won't know what to think. :beer:

[DeV]

Originally posted by Ravenstorm
Where are all the sexy obese men? :P

Raven Do we really wanna know?!? :P Big double standard though. I was watching an NFL special once on some of the big guys that play the line are actually encouraged to eat and be bigger and these men are so obviously obese its sad. They even stated that they knew it was dangerous for their health but they were doing it so they could "feed their family". :thumbsdown:

[Bobmuhthol]

They're not supposed to look good. They're supposed to play some good football.


And I'm fucked if I start playing with big guys.. I can take a man out, but not if he weighs 400 pounds.

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
They're not supposed to look good. They're supposed to play some good football.

That's not playing good football. That's paying someone to risk their lives so they can be too fat to be moved. No skill required. Change the rules and you can replace them with those really huge pigs.

Raven

[Bobmuhthol]

<<That's paying someone to risk their lives>>

Army much?

[Mistomeer]

You know, this thread reminds me of something my African-American lit teacher said.

Paraphrasing:
For women, all that matters is how good looking she is. For men, all that matters is how much money he makes. A woman may date a good looking loser type, but when it comes time to settle down, and decide who she wants to be the father of her baby, she's not going to look for some good looking guy that works at the 7/11.

To a certian extent, that is true in today's society. Just looking at TV shows that some fat ass guy like Tony Soprano can be a star and no one questions it. For women, it's more based on looks. But that's based on roles in today's society as art is a reflection of life.

I'm not saying I think it's right. But I do think there are many instances where society tells men they have to be successful and tells women they have to be thin, attractive, whatever.

[Weedmage Princess]

Heh, I was going to comment on that as well Mistomeer...and I think that's what Satira was going off on. I agree with [what I think?] she was trying to say, as well.

In society today, if a female is overweight at all--not just obese, but say...5 or 10 pounds overweight..people are on her ass like white on rice "You're fat!" She's put down immediately if you can't see her ribcage in a skimpy bikini (though they might let it slide if the only reason you can't see the ribs is cause her silicone boobs are covering them) ...HOWEVER, I know I haven't heard anywhere near as much in the way of complaints and put downs when the male is the one overweight. As a matter of fact, have you noticed a lot of the prime time sitcoms these days feature some fat and balding sloppy looking dude (IE King of Queens, the one with James Belushi, Grounded For Life, etc etc) married to a really attractive and THIN woman? It's like..women are expected to go out of their way and be beautiful...yet it's alright if the men decide they don't want to. I mean, what's up with that?

Don't get me wrong. I pretty much agree with Ilvane and others who say that if these overweight people are happy with themselves then that's all that really matters. However, it does seem to me that women get singled out for this more than what the men do..

[Bobmuhthol]

A fat guy is intimidating, and in most cases strong.

A fat chick is just fat, and in most cases ugly.

[Weedmage Princess]

Heh...I hardly see Doug from King of Queens as intimidating. There's another show, I can't think of the name of it but it's the same scenario--heavy and sloppy husband, pretty wife..she actually has dark hair and looks similar to Courtney Cox..anyway...that guy DEFINITELY isn't intimidating and even though he probably is three times my size I still think I can kick his ass...so I don't know about that theory, Bob..heh.

[Ravenstorm]

Look at the Honeymooners.

Raven

[Weedmage Princess]

That's right! I forgot about them. But Ralph Cramden was definitely intimidating. I wouldn't mess with that man. : /

[Kurili]

Yeah, but Ralph was nuttier than a fruitcake and had NO concience about domestic violence. That seemed to come through.


Kurili

[Skirmisher]

Bang! Zoom!

[Satira]

Thanks Weedy, I appreciate you recognizing the point of my post.

Bob- Stop forming opinions with your penis.

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by Kurili
Yeah, but Ralph was nuttier than a fruitcake and had NO concience about domestic violence. That seemed to come through.

I never got that at all, actually. What came through to me is he was all bark and no bite. The two of them obviously loved each other despite his mouth. I was actually pointing them out as another example of a large fat man and skinny wife.

Raven

[Hulkein]

I don't know where you heard that most linemen are unhealthy, because that's wrong.

Yes, they're overweight, but they train so much that they are healthy. Yes there are the exceptions, ie Gilbert Brown, but the majority of linemen in the NFL have no heart problems etc.

[Satira]

Can someone please come up with an example of a fat wife and a thin attractive husband?

Come on. :smug:

[CrystalTears]

I could only think of Rosanne but her husband was fat too, so that's out.

[Ravenstorm]

Hmmmm. I was sure I could at first but now I'm having trouble. Liz Taylor was quite heavy at certain times; one of her husbands at the time must have been thin. Likewise, I'm not sure which husbands were married to Rosemary Clooney and Shelley Winters after they got fat. There has to be however, quite a few opera singers with thin, good looking husbands. And some of those performers are quite large. So there has to be some out there; I just can't name any for certain.

Raven

[Weedmage Princess]

They may exist, Raven...but it's not clearly not getting any play in our society like the opposite is, hence, we can't even come up with names. There is NO sitcom with an overweight wife and some buff, hot looking dude. I'd love to see a show featuring say Roseanne Barr and Antonio Sabato Jr as her husband...however, I doubt that will ever happen. However, it's becoming the norm for the opposite. Even in commercials. The woman is expected to do everything in her power to remain attractive and thin, whereas the man...once he's married or whatever...it's the green light for him to enter Fat Slobsville and the woman has to dote all over this guy and find him sexy and stuff. Again, I'm not saying there's anything WRONG with either, all I'm saying is the double standard is clear and that's what I have a problem with.

[Satira]

I loooooooove Weedy! :heart: :heart: :heart:

[Ravenstorm]

Oh, it's no secret to anyone with eyes that the standards of society are pretty screwed up.

As a side note though, Roseanne is looking pretty nice nowadays. I hear she had performed one of those weight loss surgeries and is down to 160 or so.

Raven

[Weedmage Princess]

YAY SATIRA!! Hee

And Raven, yeah she did some Disney movie..Home on the Range I think it is? And they were showing an interview with her and I was amazed at how much smaller she was..I mean I loved her show and I still watch the reruns whenever I happen to catch them on tv--so to see the before and after is pretty amazing. She did good. :)

[Satira]

She's had a lot -A LOT- of plastic surgery and I know she had the weight loss surgery, but she is looking nice.

[Edaarin]

Haha even with all that plastic surgery she still has like 40 lbs on Bob

[Bobmuhthol]

Fuck you.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Hulkein
I don't know where you heard that most linemen are unhealthy, because that's wrong.

Yes, they're overweight, but they train so much that they are healthy. Yes there are the exceptions, ie Gilbert Brown, but the majority of linemen in the NFL have no heart problems etc. Re-read the post. Not most. Some. Healthy or not, they're overweight which is my point. Is it possible to be overweight and healthy at the same time? Possibly, but it seems like an oxy-moron to me.

[Myshel]

When I was young, I was strong and could outwork any skinny woman. Being overweight never hampered me or my lifestyle, besides hating being overweight. Then when I hit 40, BOOM! I became diabetic, high cholesteral, high blood pressure, aches and pains in my knee's and back. All weight related. Within a 2 year period, I was one sick puppy, then they discovered a ulerated tumor in my tummy, (not weight related). The down side was I almost died, was on so many medications I had to write them down to keep them straight. Had to prick myself 4 times a day to keep my blood sugar straight.
Then I had a operation and it saved my life. Dropped all the weight, (about half before the surgery, from illness). Now the only med's I take are iron and vitimins.

So if you think you can lead a healthy lifestyle being overweight forever, your fooling yourself. It WILL catch up to you, probably in your 40's. I was the poster child for a healthy fat woman who exercised 4x a week, and never even caught a cold.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by The Eternal Klaive
Unless you're sumo, right?The second-best sumo I've ever seen probably has a lower BMI than Anticor. (The best was a total lardass, though.)
Originally posted by Weedmage Princess
As a matter of fact, have you noticed a lot of the prime time sitcoms these days feature some fat and balding sloppy looking dude (IE King of Queens, the one with James Belushi, Grounded For Life, etc etc) married to a really attractive and THIN woman?a) those shows all suck
b) those dudes all suck harder (as comedians)
c) those women are hardly "really attractive"

Now Will and Grace, there's an attractive woman (and she's not super-skinny, either!).

[Weedmage Princess]

Actually, I think Leah Remini (Carrie on King of Queens) is very pretty..and she's not super skinny. But I think she might be pregnant...that show with the Courtney Cox looking lady, I think it's Still Standing...and she's pretty!! So is Sean's wife from Grounded For Life!! They're attracive women...or at the least...generally out of the leagues of their casted husbands.

[Latrinsorm]

Judy Miller is the name of the actress of the Courtney Cox-looking woman. I think I like the first Google image hit better, though. :whistle:

[AnticorRifling]

The wife characters in Everyone loves Raymond and King of Queens are both hot.

[Weedmage Princess]

Yeah but Ray Romano isn't fat...he's just goofy looking...so that show doesn't count. Otherwise that show would be a candidate because she's another one who's WAY out of his league.

Here are some sitcom matches I'd like to see:

http://a.abclocal.go.com/images/kabc/KABC_031402_Rosie_odonnel.jpg
http://www.wchstv.com/abc/onelife/jasonshanescott.jpg

And this would be cute :)

http://www.ethicalatheist.com/img/star_jones.jpg
http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/universal_pictures/the_scorpion_king/the_rock/king9.jpg

Or this...

http://www.freealabama.com/images/mimi.jpg
http://www.azcentral.com/ent/gifs3/0708orlando.jpg

This would be cool, too.

http://allthat.buchanon-place.net/pics/wbparty01.jpg
http://espn.go.com/i/magazine/new/bracket_affleck.jpg

....more to come perhaps.