Pretty sure I'm doing this right

[Glass]

Howdy all,

Pretty sure I'm not doing anything dumb here, but I thought I better get everyones input before Homur's 30 days ends. I definitely have no troubles uphunting 5-10 levels right now (just a 4x lance & 4x torso chain), but I'm worried that I'm going to get shredded in warcamps.

My main concern is Combat Manuvers. I picked up the first rank of precision (use a lance, I want all the punctures I can get, correct?) and 2 ranks of surge.

I plan on getting one rank each of wspec1 and cmovement next; +2 AS/DS seems like a good return on investment. After that I don't know if I should start working on Charge or more Surge (or something else entirely).

Homur is very, very slowly working on sunfist (only rank 7 at 15).

Stats are set for growth (just used my first reset to make sure they're not terribly frustrating):

Level 0 stats
Strength (STR): 80
Constitution (CON): 51
Dexterity (DEX): 82
Agility (AGI): 79
Discipline (DIS): 66
Aura (AUR): 88
Logic (LOG): 92
Intuition (INT): 21
Wisdom (WIS): 80
Influence (INF): 21

Current training is
Armor Use..........................| 146 46
Combat Maneuvers...................| 78 17
Polearm Weapons....................| 128 34
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 25 5
Physical Fitness...................| 102 24
Harness Power......................| 70 15
Perception.........................| 50 10
Climbing...........................| 25 5

Spell Lists
Paladin............................| 15

Sort of a random plan for training;
Trying to get as close to 3x armor as I can, I'd like to get into MBP as quickly as possible, I may slow a bit as I work towards full plate. From 18-28 I'm going to switch to 1x polearm and start 2.5-3x'ing CM (figure the manuevers are worth more than the ~.5 AS i'll lose per train) and then go back to 1x. At 24 I'll pick PT back up and maintain 1x in that.

I am definitely taking my paladin spells up to 1618 (eventually 1635), but I'm not sure if I should take a break at 18 and start picking up MIU & sharing (I'd really like to be able to share well since I contribute nothing else of utility), or just keep pounding the spells out. Also considering cutting HP back whenever I manage to get some of those badass mana sigils (stam->mana & +5 mana/pulse).

Lastly, using a lance, is it ever going to be worth my time to get 10-20 ranks in ambush for aiming purposes? Or should I just smash, smash, smash?

Any thoughts are appreciated. Like I said this seems pretty spot on to me, but I've never gotten a character past 25 or so and I don't want to be surprised when critters suddenly get tough.

Lastly: Lookin' for a hunting partner for lowbie warcamps!

[Androidpk]

Don't even bother with MIU or mana sharing for now. And I wouldn't really worry about aiming with a lance. I wouldn't go over 2x CM either, costs too much and you won't see much of a difference.

[DrZaius]

Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 195 95
Combat Maneuvers...................| 128 34
Two-Handed Weapons.................| 168 68
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 120 30
Physical Fitness...................| 128 34
Dodging............................| 105 25
Harness Power......................| 126 33
Perception.........................| 6 1
Climbing...........................| 50 10
Swimming...........................| 50 10
Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 1
Spell Lists
Paladin............................| 33

FWIW. Pretty vanilla build. The perception is an enhansive.

[GTG]

You can't 3x CM, don't 1x polearm you will lose 1 AS not .5 for each rank.

Unless you have 1640 or hunt with someone that can share, don't worry about it, pointless to contribute to nothing.

I wouldn't get precision either lance crushes and punctures, both are good so why tame one down? Just stack wspec, ferget about cmovement.

3x armor until you get into MBP\Full plate, 1x-1.5 CM to do this, then start 2x CM.

[Shaps]

I heard Thaluhar is the one to talk to.

[Shaps]

On a serious note - Like many have said before

3x armor to FP
2x Poles
1x CM, PT, HP

That is the core.. Now it looks like you are set for growth, which means around 45-50 is when you should start coming into harder hunting grounds.. up to 50 is easy to do.

I prefer and set certain thresholds and get those as soon as possible, so I can forget about them for a long while.

30 ranks perception
5 ranks climb/swim (since GoS adds to this no real need for more.. just be sure to run Resolve when travelling somewhere)

CMANS - I went for 4 ranks Feint (very helpful), 1 rank Wspec, and 1 rank Surge ---- Next priority is rank 4 Wspec then am leaning towards working my way to SidebySide (I hunt with partners)

I stopped at 1630 and will have 1635 at 50, which opens up a lot of MP's:
-Used mine for Religion Lore (I love Zealot) and mana share (20 ranks).
-20 ranks MIU/Scrolls is next

At 50 all points will move to bring up CM up to 2x (priority); Dodge to .75x (secondary) and PF to 2x (left over points).

By 60-65 should be at all the desired levels and ready to move into the harder areas.

Hard to mess a Pali up if you get the core skills in.

[Androidpk]

Once you're around 50 and can hunt the hidden plateau you're set until you're like 75-ish, minos are incredibly easy.

[dszabo]

Also you may not want to 1x spells, it's a huge TP sink and they're only good for spelling yourself up until you get the armor training and the mana pool, stop at 1611 until 30-40ish, then push for your bond if you can manage to acquire some eonake weaponry.

[Menos]

My main concern is Combat Manuvers. I picked up the first rank of precision (use a lance, I want all the punctures I can get, correct?) and 2 ranks of surge.

I would mostly ignore precision (0 ranks). Picking the damage type only works well if you can also pick the place you hit. Since the last round of balancing on wprec it no longer acts that way. I would mostly stick with the passive Cmans for now (Surge if you like it, toughness, wspec). Later in life when you can bring CM up to 1.5x or so, add in charge for knocking down dangerous casters.


Intuition (INT): 21

The stat information would be more helpful if we knew your race. That being said, if you still have stat changes, try and find some points for intuition. It is an evade/dodge related stat and not one I would be happy to tank.

Training:
Find some way to get the points for some dodge ranks. The 1x training costs are pretty low for the value you get. If you cut down spells put the points here. If you just stop paladin ranks, pick up some minor spirit spells. 101, 102, and 103 will all serve you very well as a poler paladin. Often times the trade off in AS from 102 is worth it for the bolt and offensive DS you gain. Lots of creatures call wind or otherwise force stance.


Lastly, using a lance, is it ever going to be worth my time to get 10-20 ranks in ambush for aiming purposes? Or should I just smash, smash, smash?

Ambushing with a lance is very very effective. However, 10-20 ranks of ambush will not help. Aiming from the open is based on a combination of CM and ambush ranks. Expect to need about 180-200 combined ranks before you aim a lance much. On the other hand, aiming a spear is much easier and just as effective from about level 40 to 80. At any rate, do not bother with ambush until you are 2x CM.

I would mostly plan on just swinging the lance for the near future. The points to diversify into aiming spears or mstriking with lighter poles are simply not there for a paladin. Main training goals for me, if I was you, would go in this order. First, I would maintain 1x spell training. Get 3 minor spirit spell ranks and then stick with paladin. Second, backtrain to get dodge up or near to 1x. Third, start to bring CM up to about 1.5x. That would take up pretty much everything until circa level 40.

By then you have the levels and CM ranks to take a stab at using Charge (which is going to be your mainstay offensive CML for life) and feint. I would switch out of most of the passives at that point and divide my points into charge, wspec, and feint (in that order). You will also have 1635 and 103 which is a very good point for your spells to be. That is almost it for spells for a long time. I would work in 17 more minor spirit spells from level 40 to level 100.

Hope the advice helps. Feel free to IM me at any time.

AIM GS4Menos

[Glass]

Thanks for the well-thought post Menos. Yours was actually helpful. (yours as well Shaps).

I should have included that Homur is a krovlin & I haven't found folks to hunt with at my low level. I imagine I'll be flying solo in the near term. I will look to see if I can't drop aura some (don't ever plan on raising & willing to spell tank for TD if I have to) and get my intuition up a notch.

Part of the reason I was debating stopping spells at 18 ranks was to pick up mana sharing. I had thought that being able to send for spirit & ranger spells might be more beneficial than learning them myself, as I'm sort of unclear on the effect that each rank has on my redux (and I reside in the landing; no shortage of casters about). However, I am using a perfect, hcw lance and am pretty eager to bond with it.

As for dodge, is it worth training strictly for the DS benefit? Again, I was under the impression that heavier armors reduce your chances at evading an attack, and I plan on getting into plate as soon as I can. This was a low priority for me and hadn't planned on starting it until I had 140 ranks of armor and caught PT up to 2x. But now you have me rethinking it. I may just push to 80 for MBP and then switch to 2x armor/2x PT/1x dodge.

Regarding aiming; I had thought that it was skill based and not ranks, which is why I was debating picking up the first 10-20 of ambush. Thanks for the clarification. I also meant to inquire; does 1611 (patron's blessing) assist in aiming? The spell description says "Patron's Blessing increases the caster's effective Combat Maneuvers ranks for purposes of the Combat Maneuver List." This suggests (to me) that it is a pretty worthless spell, considering the incentive to 2x CM anyway. Also, isn't PT the primary factor in CML defense, with CM and perception playing tertiary roles?

I had also mentioned in my initial post that I was planning on dropping the second rank of pole-arms for a few levels (15/6 points) and start pouring those points into catching up CM (10/8) to 2x. My thinking was 2x pole and 1x CM = 2.5 AS per train, while 1x Polearm and 2x CM = 2 AS per train. I'm pretty keen on getting these Cmans up, they are a helluva alot more fun than any of our spells. I'm still not convinced that this is a bad trade off, despite the "don't do it, it's stupid" post. The only reason I can think of is that critters will be gain a small increase in their chance to dodge my attacks; but I'd have gained a disabler cman to put them on their backs, making it something of a wash.

Thanks for all for the replies. I'm having a ton of fun with this guy & want to make sure that he remains a massacre machine for the forseeable future.

~Homur

[Androidpk]

I would go up to 1635 ASAP. Beseech is amazing as is 1630.

[Menos]

Being a HK is going to have an effect on your combat choices in later life. If you end up really wanting to aim a lance, your Adv guild badge and several other enhansives are going to need to be Dex and Agi. That +68 bonus is fairly important. 7 seconds is way easier to deal with than 8 for an ambush. Normal swings will be 5 with ease, so no worries there. If you were not so enthusiastic about Cman attacks, I would suggest going THW for the faster aim times. Mauls, mattocks, military picks, and even flails put the similar speed poles to shame. Sadly, paladins have total crap for THW maneuvers. In fact the only nice ones we have are charge and the shield related ones.


As for dodge, is it worth training strictly for the DS benefit?

Yes. Even in heavy armor you are going to see a respectable boost in your DS from training in dodge consistently. Evade is handy but not to be counted on like raw DS.

Not 100% on the skill/ranks based bit for aiming. I just know it was circa level 60-65 with 2x CM and 1x ambush that I noticed a lance was worth aiming. I expect 1611 probably helps with aiming, but have nothing beyond my expectations to base that.

Either way, 1611 is a very helpful spell for paladins. First and foremost because almost no paladins will find the points to 2x CM for long (before the cap). So while you cannot train in as many Cmans with low CM ranks, the offensive Cmans you do have will work well because 1611 fills in the difference so your attack is as strong as if you had 2x CM. Defense against Cmans is based on whole heaps of factors. 1611 is probably one of those too.

I think you are in the right mindset as a paladin if you are thinking in terms of dropping below full 2x in standard skills (like poles) to meet specific goals. Fiddle with the points and get as much of what you want as possible, it is the only way to make us work. Then when you cap out, you get to fill in the corners and be a super-beast.