Guardian of Sunfist Protocol

[Caidee]

I just rolled a warrior who will be doing Guardian of Sunfist. I don't know much about any "unwritten" rules of warcamping.

1. Are warcamps "claimed" once someone finds them?
2. If so, how will I know who has the warcamp, or whether someone is coming back for it, etc?
3. Are there any general, unspoken rules about finding, razing warcamps?

Thanks in advance!

[Androidpk]

It all depends on who you ask, either you'll hear warcamps are claimed or they're FFA.

[Khariz]

My opinion goes like this:

A. If I read the chalkboard and find out about a warcamp from the chalkboard, then I KNOW that someone else has already found it (but they may have only marked it on the chalkboard because it was their task, or they may not care about it because its got 300 giants in it), so I go to it expecting to find someone else hunting it and I make very carefully sure that nobody is in it before I hunt in it.

B. If I find a warcamp that isn't on the chalkboard, I follow the common sense rule below, but I don't assume it's anyone else's. I have no way of knowing unless I'm specifically told or I find someone in it.

General Common Sense Rule: If you walk into a warcamp and ANY mob but a grimswarm GUARD is present, someone else is either in there or was recently in there and the kind thing to do is leave.

[Lord Orbstar]

You dont just hit berserk and see what happens?

Also...do grimswarm DISARM? i would hate to find out the hard way

[Khariz]

You dont just hit berserk and see what happens?

Also...do grimswarm DISARM? i would hate to find out the hard way

I do that after I check!

Nope, they do not disarm. Nor itchy curse.

[Drew]

Any warcamp with less than 75 guys is being worked. That's the best rule IMO. Obviously if something other than a guard is in a camp it's being worked but critters de-gen well before most fried people are rested so this is not an iron-clad rule.

[Khariz]

Any warcamp with less than 75 guys is being worked. That's the best rule IMO. Obviously if something other than a guard is in a camp it's being worked but critters de-gen well before most fried people are rested so this is not an iron-clad rule.

Well we can draw venn diagrams if you like with 75 here and other than guards there and overlap the two, but I think the recentness of when someone has last been in the camp is more meaningful that finding a camp with 50 dudes in it where the "owner" of the camp may have logged off 8 hours ago.

You just don't know. Guess you could ask openly, but I'm never killing warcamps in the town I rest in.

[BriarFox]

If it seems quiet, just ask on the GoS amulet channel. If you don't get a response, raze away.

[Caidee]

My opinion goes like this:

General Common Sense Rule: If you walk into a warcamp and ANY mob but a grimswarm GUARD is present, someone else is either in there or was recently in there and the kind thing to do is leave.

if it's a new camp, then a guard will be right at the entrance?

[Khariz]

if it's a new camp, then a guard will be right at the entrance?

No. If its a camp that nobody has been in for about 15 minutes (or a new or unfound camp), the only mobs in the camp will be guards. When you run into the first guard, he will sound the alert and all other mobs will start spawning.

[drigore]

If I'm working a camp, I just park my demon outside of it. Seeing an arashan in the middle of the lake isn't quite right.

[Drakefang]

I don't believe in camp ownership. However, if someone else is inside it when I get there, I leave no questions asked. If a warcamp is sitting at 50ish, I'll leave it as well. Otherwise, I just go ahead and knock it down or out as the case warrants.

[Caidee]

I don't believe in camp ownership. However, if someone else is inside it when I get there, I leave no questions asked.

I imagine if someone is inside it, that makes it dangerous to go in anyways, right? Since the Grimswarm spawn at the adventurers level?

[Khariz]

I imagine if someone is inside it, that makes it dangerous to go in anyways, right? Since the Grimswarm spawn at the adventurers level?

We are capped, so not for us.

[Drakefang]

I imagine if someone is inside it, that makes it dangerous to go in anyways, right? Since the Grimswarm spawn at the adventurers level?

I'm much more a danger to others. It's why when I step in the first thing I do is sigil of location, again to find a count. Typically the ones I find are between 78 and 110 or so. I can't handle more than that anyway on one run. Really, I fry after about 15-20, but I don't like to leave a camp unrazed unless my task is only to kill a set amount.

[Stry]

I've had people walk right past me to go into a camp I've been working for hours while I'm standing outside of it refreshing spells. Some people simply don't have any common sense, or common courtesy.

Both are good rules to live by when it comes to camps, but you'll always find some who think they make their own rules.

I try to make it easy for people and park my mage outside of one I'm working just like Drigore parks his demon outside. It really shouldn't be difficult to go 'Oh look, this guy/demon is standing here in the middle of nowhere, I wonder why.'

But, people never cease to amaze me and my obvious tactic gets ignored all to often by people who would rather run into my camp and try to get themselves killed by capped Grimswarm....le sigh.

[Androidpk]

but you'll always find some who think they make their own rules.


Kind of like the people that think they can claim ownership of a camp?

[BriarFox]

This whole thing is pretty simple, but there are no hard and fast rules for every situation, just some general principles:

1) If you can establish that someone else is working a camp, it's polite to leave it alone or to ask to join them. If they say no, then move on. If you can't establish that, then kill away. You can't "own" a camp, but you can stake a temporary claim to it.

2) If someone asks to join your camp, it's polite to agree, but you don't have to. If they insist on hunting the camp at the same time as you (who does that?), then they're assholes. Hopefully you're a higher level and they get killed. If they're higher, then get some capped buddies to run around in the camp and wait for the Grim to kill the annoying fellow.

3) If someone else has a raze task or something and asks to join your camp, it's not much skin off your back to let them kill 10 Grim and then raze the camp with you.

4) You can always think of conflicts over camps as an opportunity for RP. GoS would generally support any effort to wipe out a camp, and if another GoS member asks to join, my characters try to see him or her as an ally.

[Androidpk]

2) If someone asks to join your camp, it's polite to agree, but you don't have to. If they insist on hunting the camp at the same time as you (who does that?), then they're assholes. Hopefully you're a higher level and they get killed.

If I go in a camp and someone is already there I'll ask to join them, if they say no I'll go in another section of the camp.



If they're higher, then get some capped buddies to run around in the camp and wait for the Grim to kill the annoying fellow.

Who's the asshole now?

[BriarFox]

If I go in a camp and someone is already there I'll ask to join them, if they say no I'll go in another section of the camp.




Who's the asshole now?

Still you. Doing that violates the principle of personal space. You don't sit down at someone's table in a restaurant without an invitation either.

[AnticorRifling]

In the game there's a mechanic for going to someone's table, one doesn't exist for warcamps. That means the resturant (simu) doesn't have a problem with you walking in and "sitting at someone's table".

[BriarFox]

In the game there's a mechanic for going to someone's table, one doesn't exist for warcamps. That means the resturant (simu) doesn't have a problem with you walking in and "sitting at someone's table".

A real restaurant doesn't prevent it either ...

[AnticorRifling]

A real restaurant doesn't prevent it either ...

Except for the part where they, the restaurant, will probably ask you to leave.

[BriarFox]

Except for the part where they, the restaurant, will probably ask you to leave.

Do you really find your qualification of this analogy useful to the overall debate?

The issue is one of courtesy, not of possibility. You CAN be a jackass. You just ought not to be one.

[Fallen]

I've found that hunting in groups in a camp, unless you know how to work well with the person, will likely increase the difficulty rather than decrease it.

[AnticorRifling]

Do you really find your qualification of this analogy useful to the overall debate?

The issue is one of courtesy, not of possibility. You CAN be a jackass. You just ought not to be one.

You mean the analogy that you used about a real world eating establishment and the courtesy contained there in as a baseline for how one should act in a warcamp in a video game?


I'm going to side with the "no one owns a warcamp" side of this one based on what I've read on the PC (since the warcamps weren't around when I was playing).

[BriarFox]

You mean the analogy that you used about a real world eating establishment and the courtesy contained there in as a baseline for how one should act in a warcamp in a video game?

You believe courtesy in virtual worlds is inherently different than courtesy in real life?

[AnticorRifling]

You believe courtesy in virtual worlds is inherently different than courtesy in real life?

Yes.

But then again I don't expect to be casting meteor swarm here in Indy anytime soon.

Different worlds, different rules. RP amirite?!

[BriarFox]

Yes.

But then again I don't expect to be casting meteor swarm here in Indy anytime soon.

Different worlds, different rules. RP amirite?!

Just because you cannot *do* some specific thing in a real world and a virtual world, whatever that thing might be, does not mean that the same principles of behavior don't apply.

If this argument continues, it will come down to role-played ethics versus real-world ethics. The answer to the conflict is that roleplaying can be used as an excuse for any sort of behavior, but that a situation always involves two players as well as two characters, and so it works on both levels. Thus, real-world ethics do apply to virtual scenarios.

[AnticorRifling]

You say it's an issue of courtesy I say it's not a case of courtesy but more you want things done your (being the side your for) way and not how they (the side you don't agree with) want to do it. We're going to disagree.

[Androidpk]

Still you. Doing that violates the principle of personal space. You don't sit down at someone's table in a restaurant without an invitation either.

Personal space in a public spot? Get the fuck out of here.

[AnticorRifling]

Personal space in a public spot? Get the fuck out of here.

I heard you can't share tables in restaurants that let you share tables.

[BriarFox]

You say it's an issue of courtesy I say it's not a case of courtesy but more you want things done your (being the side your for) way and not how they (the side you don't agree with) want to do it. We're going to disagree.

The role of ethics is to regulate behavior within a communal society. My viewpoint does that successfully. Yours is solipsistic and disfunctional, and by definition inethical.

[whiteflash]

Is warcamp poaching or whatever a problem many GoS chars face? Tend to only do 450+ camps we find just for changing it up and the treasure factor. Have never run into anyone remotely screwing with us, though only done maybe 20-30 total.

[AnticorRifling]

The role of ethics is to regulate behavior within a communal society. My viewpoint does that successfully. Yours is solipsistic and disfunctional, and by definition inethical.

So you're saying to deny someone the opportunity to gain XP or whatever reward because ITS YOUR RIGHT BECAUSE YOU SAY SO that's ethical and promotes community? Really?

It sounds like projection to say my ideas are based soundly in solipsism because they don't keep in line with YOUR idea of the proper ethics and or common courtesies that apply to the killing of trolls.

[Lord Orbstar]

Just because you cannot *do* some specific thing in a real world and a virtual world, whatever that thing might be, does not mean that the same principles of behavior don't apply.

If this argument continues, it will come down to role-played ethics versus real-world ethics. The answer to the conflict is that roleplaying can be used as an excuse for any sort of behavior, but that a situation always involves two players as well as two characters, and so it works on both levels. Thus, real-world ethics do apply to virtual scenarios.

Briarfox has the right of it. courtesy applies

[BriarFox]

So you're saying to deny someone the opportunity to gain XP or whatever reward because ITS YOUR RIGHT BECAUSE YOU SAY SO that's ethical and promotes community? Really?


If you truly and honestly believe that your statement is an accurate summary of the situation, there is no point to further debate.

[Ayamei]

I imagine if someone is inside it, that makes it dangerous to go in anyways, right? Since the Grimswarm spawn at the adventurers level?

Won't much higher level grims not attack you unless you attack them?

[AnticorRifling]

If you truly and honestly believe that your statement is an accurate summary of the situation, there is no point to further debate.

Based on your arguement I sure do. Now keep in mind for all I know a warcamp is just a hunting ground. If there's some mythical or secret reason that it's one person per camp or some giant NO-NO for someone else thinking about taking "your" mobs for their XP I'm not seeing it.

It's cool though we can still share a table at IHOP.

[Latrinsorm]

In the game there's a mechanic for going to someone's table, one doesn't exist for warcamps. That means the resturant (simu) doesn't have a problem with you walking in and "sitting at someone's table".The analogy only works if people cyber in warcamps.

[AnticorRifling]

The analogy only works if people cyber in warcamps.

Sometimes I've got to kill an orc just to get an erection.

[Fallen]

Based on your arguement I sure do. Now keep in mind for all I know a warcamp is just a hunting ground. If there's some mythical or secret reason that it's one person per camp or some giant NO-NO for someone else thinking about taking "your" mobs for their XP I'm not seeing it.

It's cool though we can still share a table at IHOP.

Spawn rates and levels can and will vary wildly between 1 person entering a camp versus 2 or more. The camps are also hidden, meaning someone must take the time to locate the entrance using a tedious sigil of location command in each room until they find it. Camps have a fixed amount of creatures before they can be destroyed, so if someone has been culling the camp for a long time and someone else comes in and kills a few and razes the camp, the vast majority would object to such behavior.

Generally speaking, if someone is in the camp before you (or is working it), leave it the hell alone. No rule or policy is going to force you to do so, but you're still a dick if you don't allow for common courtesy.

[AnticorRifling]

So why don't they instance them?

[Fallen]

So why don't they instance them?

They are fairly instanced. They spawn and despawn depending on hunting pressure.

[AnticorRifling]

Instanced meaning if I open it only me or my party can go in and out.

I can see if this razing of a camp is required for a rank/skillup whatever in the new society I'd agree the courtesy is to let the person working it to have it but if there's no real benefit to the killing blow then I don't think it's discourteous to work the camp for XP.

[Fallen]

Instanced meaning if I open it only me or my party can go in and out.

I can see if this razing of a camp is required for a rank/skillup whatever in the new society I'd agree the courtesy is to let the person working it to have it but if there's no real benefit to the killing blow then I don't think it's discourteous to work the camp for XP.

Your level will augment the level of creatures which will spawn there, which WILL get people killed. If the person who found the camp is level twenty, and you walk in being level 60, suddenly there will be level 20-60 monsters attacking the guy, with him having no way of noting this fact until he is surrounded by extremely difficult monsters spawning at a highly excellerated rate.

Spawn rates increase in normal hunting grounds due to pressure, but the mechanic doesn't at all compare to the spawn rate increases of 1 extra person walking into a warcamp. I also believe AoE spells effect the camp as a whole, so your hunting tactics can severely limit the options of other people in the camp. Every Cone of Lightning you cast is one less AoE the other person can cast until everyone starts facing a backlash.

Other factors are if you cause a swarm of creatures at the opening, the person further in the camp will not be able to retreat without having to travel through your swarm. Swarms in warcamps cause an automatic RT penalty for attempting to run through them. This mechanic alone is enough to make people realize that one should leave an occupied warcamp be.

[whiteflash]

Instanced meaning if I open it only me or my party can go in and out.

I can see if this razing of a camp is required for a rank/skillup whatever in the new society I'd agree the courtesy is to let the person working it to have it but if there's no real benefit to the killing blow then I don't think it's discourteous to work the camp for XP.

Also you get treasure from the treasure chest at 1 box per 25 personal kill shots. I don't know many who open it until they've depleted the camp. Would be considered pretty rude to come kill the last 25-50 while the person/party rested and burned their 15 boxes or whatever.

[diablo3junkie]

enjoying this thread for many reasons.


The camps are also hidden, meaning someone must take the time to locate the entrance using a tedious sigil of location command in each room until they find it.

in Lich it's easy.

use ;warcampfind

it will give you specific messaging.. if you get the response "Warcamp is NOT close by" simply pick another random spot about 30 rooms away, ;go2 that location, and then run ;warcampfind again. with haste, it's extremely easy.

[AnticorRifling]

But you don't post during the week because you've got tomatos....

[Fallen]

enjoying this thread for many reasons.



in Lich it's easy.

use ;warcampfind

it will give you specific messaging.. if you get the response "Warcamp is NOT close by" simply pick another random spot about 30 rooms away, ;go2 that location, and then run ;warcampfind again. with haste, it's extremely easy.

Lich does tend to make everything easier. All the same, if someone already took the time to locate a camp and is actively working it, there is little reason why another person can't locate their own. The original person will be able to complete less tasks using that camp if someone else comes along and starts using it as well.

If your (general) attitude to the above is "Too bad" then as BF stated, there is little point in further debating the issue as you fail to share the same definition of common courtesy. It isn't any 1 factor of why you shouldn't hunt a warcamp at the same time as someone else, but all of them taken into account as a whole which makes it a bad decision.

[AnticorRifling]

Lich does tend to make everything easier. All the same, if someone already took the time to locate a camp and is actively working it, there is little reason why another person can't locate their own. The original person will be able to complete less tasks using that camp if someone else comes along and starts using it as well.

If your (general) attitude to the above is "Too bad" then as BF stated, there is little point in further debating the issue as you fail to share the same definition of common courtesy. It isn't any 1 factor of why you shouldn't hunt a warcamp at the same time as someone else, but all of them taken into account as a whole which makes it a bad decision.

My attitude of too bad is because I thought the war camp was just a hunting ground. If it were just a hunting ground I'd stand by my decision but the other factors do come into play and yeah it would be a dick move to raze someone's camp. I still don't think you own a camp though.

[BriarFox]

Based on your arguement I sure do. Now keep in mind for all I know a warcamp is just a hunting ground. If there's some mythical or secret reason that it's one person per camp or some giant NO-NO for someone else thinking about taking "your" mobs for their XP I'm not seeing it.

It's cool though we can still share a table at IHOP.

The others have picked up on a lot of the issues, but the analogy doesn't work because, at the basic level, another person's presence in a warcamp can harm another person. Another person can increase the difficulty of hunting in the camp for the first person, increase his or her likelihood of death, cause the person to fail a task (as by killing a shaman or warchief), cause the person to waste effort (as by razing the camp before they get the loot they've earned or by depriving them of a raze after they've whittled the camp solo), and so forth. There's also the major fact that warcamps are a limited resource, while a hunting ground is an infinite resource.

It's just not the same as a normal hunting area.

[AnticorRifling]

It's just not the same as a normal hunting area. Right, which is where the confusion, for me at least, came in to play.

[Androidpk]

Warcamps are not a limited resource, there is no shortage of grimswarm camps.

[Inspire]

Warcamps are not a limited resource, there is no shortage of grimswarm camps.

Liar liar pants on fire!


I can't find any warcamps around Illistim. That place is cleared out.

[subzero]

If I go in a camp and someone is already there I'll ask to join them, if they say no I'll go in another section of the camp.


I'd be certain to make sure that camp was lit up with friendly events such as open voids and meteor swarms.

[subzero]

If there's some mythical or secret reason that it's one person per camp or some giant NO-NO for someone else thinking about taking "your" mobs for their XP I'm not seeing it.


I only do camps to get past rank 15. You have to raze 5 of them. A camp with 500 mobs in it can take hours to clear out. If I get that fucker down to the last 100 or so and someone else comes in and razes it (meaning I get 0 raze credit and the boxes from the 400 other mobs are gone), I'm not gonna be a happy camper.

[AnticorRifling]

Clearly. That was the piece I wasn't getting in the argument of someone being a dick in hunting inside a camp being actively hunted by someone else.

[Inspire]

I raze a camp when I clear it out. Should I *not* be razing them?

[Brad]

I've thought that if the camp is on the board, it's open to whoever if no one is there. If it's not I don't have a firm opinion either way.

[Stry]

I only do camps to get past rank 15. You have to raze 5 of them. A camp with 500 mobs in it can take hours to clear out. If I get that fucker down to the last 100 or so and someone else comes in and razes it (meaning I get 0 raze credit and the boxes from the 400 other mobs are gone), I'm not gonna be a happy camper.

This. It's happened to me more than once. Which is why I started parking my mage outside the camp I'm in. Also, it's why I get pissed when snerts walk right past him and into the camp without so much as a word.

I then get to drag their ass out of the camp and tell them it's not safe for them and to find a different camp.

Excuse me AndriodPK for 'claiming' a camp I've worked on for several hours. If that makes me a dick for telling some lvl 5 character to take a hike when they try to walk right into said camp, then so be it, I'm a dick.

I swear, I'm going to get a sign and alter it so I can wave it and have it say " Warcamp in use! Keep moving!"

It's a situation where one asshole can cause a lot of other people grief, and as is always the case, there's more than one asshole.

And if you're 'going to another part of the camp' you are increasing the gen rate, spawning huge amounts of extra Grimswarm AND killing what is a limited amount of critters in the camp. This is rude, and I agree with Briar Fox, it makes you a dick.


On a different note:

I think that warcamps are awesome, but they could use some tweaking on how they are instanced and how they generate to make them more 'friendly'. On weekends it tends to be difficult to find a camp in a reasonable location sometimes. I've had it were I've searched every area from Solhaven to the Landing, hitting every area I know and havn't found a single camp because they've all been razed.

This shouldn't be happening in my opinion.

[Sean]

The others have picked up on a lot of the issues, but the analogy doesn't work because, at the basic level, another person's presence in a warcamp can harm another person. Another person can increase the difficulty of hunting in the camp for the first person, increase his or her likelihood of death, cause the person to fail a task (as by killing a shaman or warchief), cause the person to waste effort (as by razing the camp before they get the loot they've earned or by depriving them of a raze after they've whittled the camp solo), and so forth. There's also the major fact that warcamps are a limited resource, while a hunting ground is an infinite resource.

It's just not the same as a normal hunting area.

It may be true that warcamps are more limited than a general hunting ground but all your example of issues are also true for any hunting ground in the game.

[Lord Orbstar]

If someone wont leave your camp that you coundand you have been hammering on for a couple Hours.....kill them.

[vamosj]

I have this feeling that this is going to be one of those threads that will never end....

Here are some of my feelings about the Warcamps and the "Courtesy" involved:


You are going to have the people who are courteous
You are going to have the people who will join forces
You are going to have the people who are considered assholes
You are going to have the people who are considered idiots



"considered" is of course a variance term that will change depending on the perception of the person you are talking to about a given situation.


I think that covers most of it.
Did I miss any?



Anywho here's what I do..


Find said warcamp
Recognize to determine size of warcamp
Walk in a couple spots to see the first Grimswarm
If it's a guard I attack away
If it's any other I step out and give it a minute or two.
Step back in and if the number has diminished then I know someones in there, if it hasn't I will wait outside 5-10 to see if anyone shows up and to ensure despawning.
If no one shows back up to "work" that warcamp then I step in and have at it.
The 5-10 minutes is so that if someone is working it, it gives them time to get healed or finish task such as an escort.
When I'm in the warcamp I'll try and hunt at the entrance or at least the south wing so I'm easily spotted before they start reaching critters.

[Androidpk]

This. It's happened to me more than once. Which is why I started parking my mage outside the camp I'm in. Also, it's why I get pissed when snerts walk right past him and into the camp without so much as a word.

I then get to drag their ass out of the camp and tell them it's not safe for them and to find a different camp.

Excuse me AndriodPK for 'claiming' a camp I've worked on for several hours. If that makes me a dick for telling some lvl 5 character to take a hike when they try to walk right into said camp, then so be it, I'm a dick.

I swear, I'm going to get a sign and alter it so I can wave it and have it say " Warcamp in use! Keep moving!"

It's a situation where one asshole can cause a lot of other people grief, and as is always the case, there's more than one asshole.

And if you're 'going to another part of the camp' you are increasing the gen rate, spawning huge amounts of extra Grimswarm AND killing what is a limited amount of critters in the camp. This is rude, and I agree with Briar Fox, it makes you a dick.


On a different note:

I think that warcamps are awesome, but they could use some tweaking on how they are instanced and how they generate to make them more 'friendly'. On weekends it tends to be difficult to find a camp in a reasonable location sometimes. I've had it were I've searched every area from Solhaven to the Landing, hitting every area I know and havn't found a single camp because they've all been razed.

This shouldn't be happening in my opinion.

So in other words you don't know how to share. I think that makes YOU the snert/dick/asshole.

[Caidee]

Is there no other way of telling someone is already inside a warcamp besides leaving another character outside? That seems to be a huge oversight on game mechanics, right?

Why not just make it like the nook in Thrak Inn (make some b.s. line when you first try to enter that says you hear the war shouts of so-and-so or something, if you'd like to continue GO again).

[Androidpk]

Is there no other way of telling someone is already inside a warcamp besides leaving another character outside? That seems to be a huge oversight on game mechanics, right?

Why not just make it like the nook in Thrak Inn (make some b.s. line when you first try to enter that says you hear the war shouts of so-and-so or something, if you'd like to continue GO again).

It isn't an oversight, it is just how Simu designed it.

[Caidee]

It still seems strange to design it that way. As a young adventurer, I'd hate to spend 30 minutes or so getting spelled up and such, only to go into a camp I don't know is occupied and die as soon as I run into the first Grimswarm.

I also understand both sides of "claiming" and "free-for-all" warcamps. I know if I worked on a warcamp for many hours, and it got razed by someone who only killed 50-60 creatures, I might be pretty upset.

On the other hand, I can't see holding it against someone who just doesn't know or someone who is working a task I don't have.

But I will never understand saying "no" to someone asking to join as long as they are around the same level.

[Sam]

So in other words you don't know how to share. I think that makes YOU the snert/dick/asshole.

They should just go to another camp. I think that's the point.

[Androidpk]

They should just go to another camp.

Not going to happen. If I go into a camp and there is someone already there, either much higher or lower level than me, I will leave. However if they are in the same level range I will ask to join up with them. If they say, too bad, I'm not leaving. There is no reason not to join up, unless you're a greedy bastard, then you can go fuck yourself.

If I go into a camp and it's empty but low on grimswarm, i'll use the GoS net to find out who's working on it to make sure they get credit for the raze. Even if it's a full camp i've taken down myself I'll ask on the net if anyone wants to come in for the last few and get credit.

[Latrinsorm]

It isn't an oversight, it is just how Simu designed it.I think perhaps both of those can be true.

[Fallen]

Do you loot the treasure?

[Sam]

Not going to happen. If I go into a camp and there is someone already there, either much higher or lower level than me, I will leave. However if they are in the same level range I will ask to join up with them. If they say, too bad, I'm not leaving. There is no reason not to join up, unless you're a greedy bastard, then you can go fuck yourself.

If I go into a camp and it's empty but low on grimswarm, i'll use the GoS net to find out who's working on it to make sure they get credit for the raze. Even if it's a full camp i've taken down myself I'll ask on the net if anyone wants to come in for the last few and get credit.


You sound like the dick in this scenario. Is it really that hard to just find another camp? They're all over the fucking place.

[Inspire]

But I will never understand saying "no" to someone asking to join as long as they are around the same level.



Other people just make things take longer. Then they'll die, and I'll have to take them back to town and find a cleric and bla bla bla.

[Stry]

So in other words you don't know how to share. I think that makes YOU the snert/dick/asshole.

Nobody just walks in and starts clearing a camp when they realize someone is already in there. Nobody. If they do, they're an asshole, and I'd kill them if they refused to stop and/or leave.

This hasn't happened.

I share just fine. If someone wants to join up, I'm not one to just say no unless they're a lower level character or just causing trouble. I've even had a few people who just wanted to run in and get an official and leave. I was fine with that, they always asked first and I tell them to have at it.

You were the one who said you would just go to another part of the camp and start hacking away even if someone was already in there long before you. That's what I (and many others) are calling a dick move. In this case you should find another camp.

Stop making yourself look like an ass.

[Caidee]

Other people just make things take longer. Then they'll die, and I'll have to take them back to town and find a cleric and bla bla bla.

That would involve too much RP?

I feel like joining a group like GoS denotes some desire to roleplay? It seems like a social based society.

so... I guess what I'm saying is...


I will never understand saying "no" to someone asking to join as long as they are around the same level.

[Fallen]

As I mentioned before, grouping with someone in a warcamp can sometimes do more harm than good.

[Androidpk]

You were the one who said you would just go to another part of the camp and start hacking away even if someone was already in there long before you. That's what I (and many others) are calling a dick move. In this case you should find another camp.

Stop making yourself look like an ass.

I could care less if my opinion makes me look like an ass. Warcamps were designed by Simu to be a group effort, and If I go into a camp and the person already there doesn't want to group, then maybe they should go play a single person game and stop QQingg.

[Stry]

You should practice your reading comprehension. It seems to need some work.

[Fallen]

I could care less if my opinion makes me look like an ass.

And so ends the debate.

[Androidpk]

If they do, they're an asshole, and I'd kill them if they refused to stop and/or leave.


Again, who's the asshole here??

[Inspire]

That would involve too much RP?

I feel like joining a group like GoS denotes some desire to roleplay? It seems like a social based society.

so... I guess what I'm saying is...



I'm not in sunfist because I want to RP. I'm in sunfist because I want to have awesome society powers and the ability to spawn creatures anywhere in the game at my level.

[Khariz]

On a different note:

I think that warcamps are awesome, but they could use some tweaking on how they are instanced and how they generate to make them more 'friendly'. On weekends it tends to be difficult to find a camp in a reasonable location sometimes. I've had it were I've searched every area from Solhaven to the Landing, hitting every area I know and havn't found a single camp because they've all been razed.

This shouldn't be happening in my opinion.

I agree, but this leads back to the age old problem: why the fuck doesn't the Landing have its own capped hunting ground (or a least ANY hunting ground where a capped person can earn ANY experience)?

There are a ton of people in the game, like me, who recognize only the Landing as their home and refuse to live anywhere else. Because I only want to live in the Landing, I will keep all of the warcamps in the landing and inbetween the landing and solhaven and icemule pretty darn clear.

I can kill 100 grimswarm per hunt if I don't have anything to do for a while. Now I CAN just run in, kill 10, get fried, leave, and hunt again 30 mins later, but if I'm attentive at the keyboard that's boring.

Me and just a few other people can really put a dent in the warcamps in these areas, and I'm not even trying to be a dick. Warcamps either need to be purely instanced, or the landing needs to fill in some level gaps.

[Caidee]

I'm not in sunfist because I want to RP. I'm in sunfist because I want to have awesome society powers and the ability to spawn creatures anywhere in the game at my level.

I suppose this is the core disagreement we have. I play GS for interaction, I see no point in GS if not for the other players.

[Inspire]

I suppose this is the core disagreement we have. I play GS for interaction, I see no point in GS if not for the other players.

I would play the game without other people.


Sometimes people make the game better but on a whole, you get people like AndroidPk or Stry. (Ie. Assholes who argue)

[Khariz]

I suppose this is the core disagreement we have. I play GS for interaction, I see no point in GS if not for the other players.

I don't think those are mutually exclusive. Read my post above. I spend plenty of time interacting with people, but every 20 mins or so, I run off for 5 mins, tear up a camp and come back. I can raze one to nothing in hours AND interact with other players.

[Stry]

Again, who's the asshole here??


If I go in a camp and someone is already there I'll ask to join them, if they say no I'll go in another section of the camp.

Who's the asshole now?

.

[Stry]

Me and just a few other people can really put a dent in the warcamps in these areas, and I'm not even trying to be a dick. Warcamps either need to be purely instanced, or the landing needs to fill in some level gaps.

I understand this. It's not those people I have a problem with. If I've moved away from the camp, sure it's free game.

It's the ones who walk in WHILE I'm in the camp and think they can just take over that I have a problem with.

If they ask if they can join and they can hold their own and not cause me to die, then sure, I let them join.


Edit: I agree with the instanced thing. The system annoys me as it is now. It's nice to be able to hunt anywhere, but when it takes you 45 minutes of searching and you still can't find a place to hunt? Yeah it's broken.

[Caidee]

There are a ton of people in the game, like me, who recognize only the Landing as their home and refuse to live anywhere else. Because I only want to live in the Landing, I will keep all of the warcamps in the landing and inbetween the landing and solhaven and icemule pretty darn clear.

Though I've never had a capped character, I feel the same with my main characters. I like the Landing; I consider it the home of most of my characters unless there is some RP reason for them not to stay there.

And if you keep the warcamps pretty clear, I'd hope the game would be able to generate camps as quickly as you can tear them down.

[Caidee]

I don't think those are mutually exclusive. Read my post above. I spend plenty of time interacting with people, but every 20 mins or so, I run off for 5 mins, tear up a camp and come back. I can raze one to nothing in hours AND interact with other players.

I don't disagree. You can do both. BUT if a character around your level (and I'm assuming same ability) comes to a warcamp you're tearing down, would you throw away that opportunity to interact?

[Stry]

(green) Guardian of Sunfist... 08-17-2011 02:34 PM You are so sexy when you're stern and forceful

You people worry me...

[Danical]

Here was my fix --

I wrote and optimized a script that investigated all the possible camp-spawning rooms on teras and icemule. I would write to a text file the number of current grimswarm and the location of the camp (using Room.current.id). For each grimswarm I killed in a camp, I would subtract one from that number and rewrite the text file.

Now, upon entering a camp, if the number of current grimswarm was less than what I had left it, I erased that camp from my list and moved on to the next. With as many grimswarm camps I went through, I rarely ever had a problem finding a camp; however, Teras is isolated and I didn't farm for loot, I merely killed enough to fry then went back to town.

[Caidee]

(green) Guardian of Sunfist... 08-17-2011 02:34 PM You are so sexy when you're stern and forceful

Someone likes it rough

[Khariz]

I don't disagree. You can do both. BUT if a character around your level (and I'm assuming same ability) comes to a warcamp you're tearing down, would you throw away that opportunity to interact?

I'm not sure I understand the question. Are you saying that if I'm in a warcamp and level 100 critters are spawning on me 3 at a time every 30 seconds, that I should stop and interact with a level 12 guy that wanders into my camp?

Or that I should stop and interact with the level 12 guy in HIS camp, causing level 100 critters to start spawning?

Or am I completely missing what you are currently talking about?

[Caidee]

I'm not sure I understand the question. Are you saying that if I'm in a warcamp and level 100 critters are spawning on me 3 at a time every 30 seconds, that I should stop and interact with a level 12 guy that wanders into my camp?

Or that I should stop and interact with the level 12 guy in HIS camp, causing level 100 critters to start spawning?

Or am I completely missing what you are currently talking about?

Yes, I think you are.

My previous comments were about saying no to someone who wants to join in a warcamp with you that is both around the same level and ability.

And I think that may be where the misunderstanding comes from.

I agree that jumping in on a warcamp with someone above your level/ability is stupid.

[Sam]

If you see "a muddy canvas tent" outside a camp, it means it's taken.

[Caidee]

Does that appear on every warcamp that is taken? or just yours?

At the very least, the game should have some indication that someone is inside. Maybe you get to the room and a path is already there.

[BriarFox]

Does that appear on every warcamp that is taken? or just yours?

At the very least, the game should have some indication that someone is inside. Maybe you get to the room and a path is already there.

Just his. Generally, if something is outside the camp -- familiar, demon, PC, etc -- it's taken.

[Androidpk]

Just his. Generally, if something is outside the camp -- familiar, demon, PC, etc -- it's taken.

Which means absolutely nothing.

[Inspire]

Which means absolutely nothing.

If someone is outside the path to a camp it means you need to find another one.

[Androidpk]

If someone is outside the path to a camp it means you need to find another one.

Sorry, not going to happen.

[DrZaius]

Which means absolutely nothing.

You can continue to think you're without fault here, or you can accept the fact that what you did was socially unacceptable and modify your behavior. I think it's pretty clear that most people in this thread are against you, it's up to you to decide if you think their opinion is worth anything or if you want to continue to hunt camps that other people have 'claimed'.

My 2c.

-DrZ

[Androidpk]

You can continue to think you're without fault here, or you can accept the fact that what you did was socially unacceptable and modify your behavior. I think it's pretty clear that most people in this thread are against you, it's up to you to decide if you think their opinion is worth anything or if you want to continue to hunt camps that other people have 'claimed'.

My 2c.

-DrZ

Grimswarm camps are public hunting spots and until Simu says/does otherwise I'll continue to act in said manner. I don't believe in camp owernship, never have, never will, and plenty of people agree with me on that.

[DrZaius]

Grimswarm camps are public hunting spots and until Simu says/does otherwise I'll continue to act in said manner. I don't believe in camp owernship, never have, never will, and plenty of people agree with me on that.

This has nothing to do with what Simu says or doesn't say. Whether or not you're admitting that you're hiding behind it. This has to do with common courtesy.

Does hunting in the same area as someone else,
1) Make monsters higher level?
2) Steal treasure from the other players?
3) Significantly increase their risk?
4) Limit their spell choices (AOE, etc.)?

How many more examples do you need to see that these are special circumstances?

Just spend the extra 10 minutes and find your own camp man. It shouldn't be too hard.

-DrZ

[Androidpk]

Standing by my opinion != hiding behind Simu.

[Drakefang]

I think the biggest issue is that players let their own desires intrude upon their character's RP. The RP of a GoSer should be that anyone dismantling a warcamp is a good thing. It should be all about the slaying of as many grims by anyone as possible. The frustration of losing out on the majority of the rewards of a completed camp sours the experience for many but that's really a design flaw if you ask me. Boxes should simply drop every 25th kill. So should most of the necessary task items like totems and maps. Belief of camp ownership, though, is simply ridiculous. Stay in the camp our right outside it and I buy your desire. Run back to town to rest at a table to burn your XP faster and I don't sympathize.

Having said all of the above, there is no reason to be impolite as a player nor to be courteous. Share and if you cannot share then go find another one. It really should be that simple.

[whiteflash]

http://oi56.tinypic.com/24650qp.jpg

(omgnoesredzor!) Guardian of Sunfist... 08-17-2011 10:55 PM Moron ~pk

lulz!

[Danical]

genius.

[Drevihyin]

I hunted camps exclusively for the sole reason that I liked staying put in one town. After razing 1300 or so camps I can remember only 1 major issue I had with another character in a camp. Looking back now I realize I would have had problems with this individual wherever our paths may have crossed.

The first rule I would follow is common courtesy, followed closely by common sense. During a camping expedition I felt at no time did I have a claim on any camp I was in but I did expect some type of basic courtesy should you come waltzing into a camp unannounced. I expect the same anywhere I hunt it’s not exclusive just to camping. Treat me like you wish to be treated, if your style of play is asshole then expect the same back.

If I wanted someone to join me I would have brought them into the camp with me. I know it’s hard to believe but not all lich users script hunt (nothing against those that do) and sorry but I have no time for idle chatter while Grimswarm are lurking all around me.

When I do let you join me on those rare occasions don’t critique my hunting style and try to change it to your own.

[subzero]

I suppose this is the core disagreement we have. I play GS for interaction, I see no point in GS if not for the other players.

Are you gonna go mountain climbing with some fat, out of shape slob, just because they want to tag along with you as you cross paths prior to heading up the mountain? Nooope. They're likely going to slow you down and bring the enjoyment level to zero. And then what if they get hurt or somethin stupid? You're probably not gonna be too happy when you feel obligated to help the dude out, wasting time and likely ruining your trip.

As has been said by others, sometimes it's just not worth it to have someone tag along. It makes things more difficult, especially if you're not familiar with each other's hunting tactics and are both tossing out spells that affect the shroud.

[audioserf]

I think the biggest issue is that players let their own desires intrude upon their character's RP. The RP of a GoSer should be that anyone dismantling a warcamp is a good thing. It should be all about the slaying of as many grims by anyone as possible. The frustration of losing out on the majority of the rewards of a completed camp sours the experience for many but that's really a design flaw if you ask me. Boxes should simply drop every 25th kill. So should most of the necessary task items like totems and maps. Belief of camp ownership, though, is simply ridiculous. Stay in the camp our right outside it and I buy your desire. Run back to town to rest at a table to burn your XP faster and I don't sympathize.

Having said all of the above, there is no reason to be impolite as a player nor to be courteous. Share and if you cannot share then go find another one. It really should be that simple.

This makes a lot of sense but it's never feasible to dictate what anyone's RP "should" be. That's never worked and never will.

Man I am pumped that my character is in COL. Too much drammer and politickin' in this GOS thing.

[Latrinsorm]

Again, who's the asshole here??Remember when HJFudge tried this routine?

[gs4-PauperSid]

society task

You currently possess 815449 prestige points.

It is your duty to oppose the Grimswarm and their allies at every opportunity.

:moon2:

-J

[Androidpk]

Remember when HJFudge tried this routine?

No.

[Back]

So whats the protocol on asking for help when you get tasked to FIND a warcamp?

[Khariz]

So whats the protocol on asking for help when you get tasked to FIND a warcamp?

I don't understand the question. You need help walking from room to room typing sigil location?

[Back]

Found one. Thanks.