Training plan: Too ambitious?

[Drazaan]

I'm considering rolling an unsavory-type of rogue. What I want this rogue to be is this:

*Pickpocket (2x)
*TWC blunt swinger
*Magical-esque (1 spell every four levels I'm thinking)


Very roughly, I have this as a training plan:

2x Dodge 6/3
.20x Spells 0/14 (move towards 1 spell every 4 levels once TP has grown)
2x OHB 9/3
1.5x TWC 4/4
1.5x CM 8/8
1x PF 3/0
2x S&H 3/3
1x Percept 0/3
1x Ambush 2/2
2x PP 3/0
---------
38/40 per level

Also thrown into the mix will be.

35 Armor ranks (at the most)
.5x Swimming/Climbing alternating
~.5x HP

Any suggestions on how to make this a possibly without botching this rogue? I want to be effective, but don't feel a need to be min/max'd.

Thanks in advance.

[Stabbyrogue]

I'd take pf to 1x.

You probably want to stop in brigandine or lower and use emastery (I'll be crucified for suggesting this)

I'm not sure how much this will help, him being an archer at the moment, but here's a magical rogue at 95.

Futtilo (at level 95), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 130 35
Combat Maneuvers...................| 255 155
Ranged Weapons.....................| 294 194
Ambush.............................| 294 194
Physical Fitness...................| 197 97
Dodging............................| 294 194
Magic Item Use.....................| 74 16
Harness Power......................| 141 41
Stalking and Hiding................| 294 194
Perception.........................| 294 194
Climbing...........................| 140 40
Swimming...........................| 170 70
Pickpocketing......................| 294 194

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 30
Training Points: 8 Phy 0 Mnt (1260 Phy converted to Mnt)
(Use SKILLS BASE to display unmodified ranks and goals)


Little busy, I'll try to remember to come back and make more suggestions.

[m444w]

You should ambush. Get ewave and stick to doubles or brig.

[waywardgs]

You should ambush. Get ewave and stick to doubles or brig.

Or cuir or lbp... underrated armor types!

[m444w]

yeah... that probably should have been a doubles-brig:

Ondreian (at level 72), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 130 35
Combat Maneuvers...................| 173 73
Edged Weapons......................| 244 144
Ranged Weapons.....................| 248 148
Ambush.............................| 174 74
Physical Fitness...................| 174 74
Dodging............................| 299 199
Arcane Symbols.....................| 15 3
Magic Item Use.....................| 40 8
Harness Power......................| 99 23
Stalking and Hiding................| 243 143
Perception.........................| 246 146
Climbing...........................| 120 30
Swimming...........................| 128 34
Pickpocketing......................| 58 12

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 25

[Drazaan]

You're training plan actually does help Stabbyrogue. After thinking on it, I'll drop PF to 1x, Spells to once every five levels until I gain enough extra MTP to ramp up to once every four levels (eventual goal being reaching 430), and maybe only doing 1.5x in TWC. That would get me to 38/40 per level and give me plenty of leeway for armor, HP, and swimming & climbing.


You should ambush. Get ewave and stick to doubles or brig.

I'm going to follow through with your advice m444w. I was wanting to stick with ambushing. That's the point of rolling a rogue in my mind.

I like the idea of leather breastplate until I reach brig waywardgs. Thanks.

[waywardgs]

Excellent sets of doubles and brig are popular as those asg's are popular. If you can find a nice set of cuir or a nice set of lbp (fairly rare), those can be very good armors, despite the relative rarity of high-end sets.

[m444w]

Excellent sets of doubles and brig are popular as those asg's are popular. If you can find a nice set of cuir or a nice set of lbp (fairly rare), those can be very good armors, despite the relative rarity of high-end sets.

Very true. This was part of my evaluation for eventual end game when I decided to make Ondreian my main character.

Ideally I would love to turn my brigandine into doubles because of the minimized penalties across the board, but that's life.

Hiding in the soft rt of an ewave after proning a room full of creatures + vanish = a lot of dead stuff real quick.

[Drazaan]

Would a build that focuses on stealth (albeit only 2x S&H), light armor (emastery, vanish, etc...), and has only 2x Dodge with no shield be sufficient? Or will I need a dedicated empath to survive?

[Mobius1]

I'm not exactly sure what level your character is, but I can give you a little advice from what I went through as a TWC magic user, though my experience was mostly at OTF, with the build.

What I mainly ran into, was simply the lack of defense and TD that it suffers. Personally, I would get 410 then go for 120, before trying to get 430, because of this.

Even with a sai in my left hand, and having a full wizard + empath spellup, and always rubbing a statue, I still couldn't get the kind of DS and TD I would have liked, without 120. TWC just takes so much extra TPs and DS (from lack of shield) away, that it makes it a tough build to live with at high levels.

Granted, if you have enough post cap XP to get 120, or have some nice items, or use scrolls/imbeds, etc., it could work a lot better for you (I wore 5x augmented chain, cause brig/leather just got me into a lot of TD trouble.). Also, seeing as I've been gone for a little while, and there's a few new skills recently released, things might be a bit easier.

Personally, I think I am going to forget about the magic, get a set of full plate, and call it a day. That CvA is just so damn appealing. If I ever manage to get enough post cap XP to get 120, then I'll consider the magic build again.

Edit: As a side note, the Empath went from like level 5 to 30, in no time, JUST from healing me. Those bastard ambushing ithzir and their stupid flares drove me nuts!

[Drazaan]

I'm not exactly sure what level your character is, but I can give you a little advice from what I went through as a TWC magic user, though my experience was mostly at OTF, with the build.

This character is nothing more than a daydream right now. I'm just trying to figure out how feasible the character would be if I went for it.

When speaking from the experience of a "TWC magic user" are you referring to a magical rogue that used TWC or a pure class that used TWC?

Thanks for sharing. I'm afraid generating DS may be one of the main issues for me.

[m444w]

Would a build that focuses on stealth (albeit only 2x S&H), light armor (emastery, vanish, etc...), and has only 2x Dodge with no shield be sufficient? Or will I need a dedicated empath to survive?

what would you do with all the other tps? spells?

[Drazaan]

what would you do with all the other tps? spells?

Yes, spells and the training path I listed in the original post. I'll update it now to include the cutbacks I listed in the 6th post in this thread.

[m444w]

I personally think it's a mistake to not be > 2x dodge in light armor if you aren't going for the pure stealth build. You'll be better served drop TWC down to 1.5x if you have to choose.

[Drazaan]

I personally think it's a mistake to not be > 2x dodge in light armor if you aren't going for the pure stealth build. You'll be better served drop TWC down to 1.5x if you have to choose.

I was thinking the same thing, but wasn't sure haven't not played a GS4 rogue. That means I need to push for either 2.5x-3x S&H or Dodge. Thanks.

[Mobius1]

When speaking from the experience of a "TWC magic user" are you referring to a magical rogue that used TWC or a pure class that used TWC?


I mean as a magical rogue.

And yeah, not being fully 2x in TWC isn't a huge deal, since it has such diminishing returns.

Now, I will say, that I personally think pretty much ANY character can manage just fine, until OTF/Rift/Nelemar, no matter what their build is. But the high end dungeons are at such a higher difficulty level, I find it not nearly as easy to manage.

I was ALWAYS able to find a way to hunt without problems, supplementing my lack of optimum training/spells, with skill. And by lack of optimum training, I mean I always had inferior builds due to RP reasons (brawling, high perception, etc.). And hell, I made it from level 1 to my 80's without ever hunting with buffs (granted, those were the glory days of redux, and was before my magical build. But it still was no cake walk.).

Lol, I swear, I used to get sooooo much crap for being a "war rogue."

"What, you don't pick?! Then why not just make a warrior?" Man am I glad those days are over!!

~Midgar

[Gibreficul]

words... words... words....

ESPECIALLY without lockpicking skills, it's really hard to fuck up a rogue build. Nuff said. :club:

[Mobius1]

words... words... words....

ESPECIALLY without lockpicking skills, it's really hard to fuck up a rogue build. Nuff said. :club:

Well, if you don't mind your constitution always being in the red, from trying to XP in OTF :P

~Midgar, who really needs to take up the lockpick, to FINALLY make a LM guide...