101/101/101 spells?

[audioserf]

I know The Thing for most wizards post-cap is to go hard on 500s for maximum Immolation CS, and as of now, it's the route I've got planned as well.

Is anyone rolling around with 101/101/101 MjE/MnE/Wizard? I like the idea of being "balanced". I don't like the idea of all of my eggs being in one basket. The extra DS from Wizard (and 400s? If 430 defense increases past 76 ranks) wouldn't hurt. Wizard ranks also help with enchanting and Call Wind. 409/415 CS being higher is good.

In capped (and post-cap) grounds, is the extra CS from overtraining the 500s essential to use Immolation, or just nice to have?

- Gondain

[Fallen]

I know Sabreon's sorcerer is set up like that, as may be his wizard. As for the CS, it depends on where you hunt. In the Scatter, I think you would suffer greatly with a lower CS. I'm not sure about Tritons, but as they are higher level I imagine it would prove more difficult than OTF. With enhancives boosting your CS a bit you should have little trouble Immolating Ithzir and Griffins.

You should PM Rimalimalimalon directly, as he would likely have sound perspective on the issue.

[audioserf]

I do want to hunt the Scatter, which sways me back to the MjE side of things.

I'll PM Rim. Thanks for the info and the suggestion.

[Asha]

I would imagine as a 101, 101, 101, you would be completely perfect in OTF. Fine in Nelemar third floor (not so good on second floor) and problems in Scatter.
Overtraining so you have a fucking huge CS isn't even that useful except for the epeen really.

[audioserf]

Maybe the compromise is 121 MjE (to boost CS before hitting the severe overtraining diminishing returns) and 91/91 MnE/Wiz. Nearly the same defense, a bit of extra CS.

[BriarFox]

The conventional wisdom would be, what, 161 MjE, 75 MnE, 67 Wiz?

[audioserf]

Yeah. I think that's the typical split.

[DaCapn]

The conventional wisdom would be, what, 161 MjE, 75 MnE, 67 Wiz?

BY the numbers (is there anything else?), yeah. 425 caps out at 75 ranks. Primary circle bonus to CS drops to from 0.5 to 0.25 per rank at 162. Secondary circle bonus drops from 0.33 to 0.1 per rank at 68.

[Fallen]

You lose out on a lot of DS and TD doing that, along with other tertiary benefits to spells. The creatures that will give you problems with a low CS would be Greater Water Elementals and Liches. Remember though that you can tack on a nice +20 CS for +20 to the bonus of whichever stat it is that effects wizard CS. It is either Aura or Wisdom. Add to that Mystic Focus (Quartz Orbs can be charged, which is just groovy), which is readily available in many forms despite the shitty duration and you're looking at very sustainable +30 CS.

[audioserf]

I was searching through old threads on the topic and I think the figure is something like 32 DS and 15 TD you gain by being 101/101/101 vs the standard immo split. Thats a not-insignificant amount because I believe that you can never have too much DS (to that end I do plan to do brawl/shield later).

[Rimalon]

MY PRESENCE HAS BEEN REQUESTED!

I'm currently at 153/75/75. The loss of 1 or 2 CS by having 75 Wizard ranks instead of 67 is really nothing when you compare the slight DS gains, enchanting gains, and familiar-summoning gains.

So anyway.

Not sure if most people realize that immolation results are, in part, influenced by endroll. This is why if you cast immolation on a rolton 200 times, it will get the insta-death effect 190 times. The higher the endroll, the more baller it is. It's why Naos wants to nerf it.

So! If you're min-maxing, you need Major Elemental CS, period. TD is a non-issue and DS can be made up in so many other ways.

All of this also assumes that you have 202 Fire Lore... or close to it. Without that, immolation isn't a really damaging spell (still great for disabling though!)

My Major CS is 563... you can breeze through any warcamp, Nelemar, and OTF with that.

The Scatter is a different story. I've long maintained that to solo the Scatter efficiently and effectively, Wizards need the proposed Elemental Lore Review (and the improved Elemental Saturation, which would knock crazy TD off the critters, like -36, with pushdown on the initial cast.)

Without that, we can't hit liches. The other critters are basically a crapshoot, and we often can't get the necessary high endroll to do significant damage anyway (without wasting tons of mana on 530).

The Scatter is for semis and Empaths, at least until we get our Lore Review (WHICH WILL NEVER HAPPEN).

In conclusion, I suggest Nelemar!

Class is over, ANY MOAR QUESTIONS?

[Fallen]

>>My Major CS is 563

Is that enhanced, and you're saying you can't hit liches with 563 CS?

[milesalpha]

>>My Major CS is 563

Is that enhanced, and you're saying you can't hit liches with 563 CS?

http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/CS

Complete details of the match breakdown.

[Riltus]

Rimalon:
Spells: 153/75/75
Level 100 * 3 = 300 CS
Stat bonus = 35

Primary circle bonus (153 spell ranks):
100 ranks * 1 = 100
20 ranks * 0.75 = 15
33 ranks * 0.5 = 17

Total primary circle bonus = 132 CS

Secondary circle bonus for both A & B (75 spell ranks each) :
1/3 CS for each rank up to trunc(level * 2/3)
1/10 CS for each rank above 2/3rds level up to level

66 ranks = 22
8 ranks = 0.8 rounds up to 1
Secondary bonus A = 23
Secondary bonus B = 23

300 (Level) + 35 (Aura bonus) + 132 (Primary circle bonus) + 23 (Secondary circle bonus A) + 23 (Secondary circle bonus B) = 513 CS

Elemental Targeting bonus = 50 CS

Total CS = 563

Mark

[Rimalon]

Uh yeah, 563 total is just with 425 up, nothing else. I get +10 for being a Dark Elf, dontcha know.

I can get well over 600 with an orb, my aura enhancives and elemental focus potions.

I don't think I can hit a lich at 563 without a 70+ d100 roll. I posted somewhere about the Scatter hunting inequality for Sorcerers and Wizards at some point. The creatures up there are pretty preposterously unbalanced for characters not named Droit or Gnimble!

[audioserf]

I feel like wizards are fucked in the Scatter CS or no CS then? Kind of pushes me toward the 101/101/101 side of things. If I can hunt everywhere else with a balanced spell split, it doesn't seem worth it to me to max MjE in order to have a 30% chance to hit a Lich.

Thanks for the input everyone.

[whiteflash]

Uh yeah, 563 total is just with 425 up, nothing else. I get +10 for being a Dark Elf, dontcha know.

I can get well over 600 with an orb, my aura enhancives and elemental focus potions.

I don't think I can hit a lich at 563 without a 70+ d100 roll. I posted somewhere about the Scatter hunting inequality for Sorcerers and Wizards at some point. The creatures up there are pretty preposterously unbalanced for characters not named Droit or Gnimble!

I havn't found that to be the case. I hunt solo up there regularly with Draithe casting around 550 sorcerer. I can only not auto-ward the rare master and the occasional lich. I believe with a 560 elemental you will auto-ward everything but the liches, which have insane elemental defense. They will also occasionally spawn with 510+ sorcerer TD as well.

Examples:
>dc
You trace an intricate sign that contorts in the air while forcefully invoking Dark Catalyst...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a darkly inked fetish master.
CS: +547 - TD: +474 + CvA: +25 + d100: +48 == +146
Warding failed!
... and hits for 29 points of damage!
A darkly inked fetish master is suddenly engulfed in flames of pure essence!
... 60 points of damage!
Intestines rupture from intense heat; a darkly inked fetish master dies a slow, painful death.
As a darkly inked fetish master slumps to the ground, the darkly lined tattoos traversing its skin lose the luminescence that had seemed to radiate from them.

You trace an intricate sign that contorts in the air while forcefully invoking Dark Catalyst...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at an infernal lich.
CS: +547 - TD: +490 + CvA: +25 + d100: +60 == +142
Warding failed!
... and hits for 27 points of damage!
An infernal lich is suddenly engulfed in flames of pure essence!
... 35 points of damage!
Head freezes solid and the infernal lich topples over, shattering skull on impact.
Flames flare within the infernal lich's eyes as she grasps at the gnarled bone phylactery hanging around her neck and collapses to the ground.

I hope they do not nerf immolation, the lore requirement sounds intense. Also from our short hunts with a wizard up in the scatter it seems bolting is a difficult way to go and CS based spells work way better. Perhaps 409/415 would do well against things, I'll try out my weakmo 400's next time I'm up there (had to flee back to teras to recoup bounty points!).

[audioserf]

Is their elemental TD higher than their sorceror TD?

[Fallen]

How are those thing's bolt DS? I know you need a high level bolt, but isn't one of the arcane bolts level 27 or something like that?

[Fallen]

Is their elemental TD higher than their sorceror TD?

This is usually the case because of the CS boost that 425 gives pure elemental spell circles.

[DaCapn]

I was searching through old threads on the topic and I think the figure is something like 32 DS and 15 TD you gain by being 101/101/101 vs the standard immo split. Thats a not-insignificant amount because I believe that you can never have too much DS (to that end I do plan to do brawl/shield later).

From the numbers it looks like 161/75/67 MjE/MnE/Wiz gives the following compared to 101/101/101:


From MjE:
DS +60*0.75
AS +60*0.50
From MnE:
From Wiz:
DS -34*1.25
TD -34*0.33
Totals:
+2.5 DS
+8.5 ranged DS
+30 bolt AS
-11.3 ETD

CS (from spell research):
MjE: 176.47
MnE: 123.37
Wiz: 118.87
(compared to 152.47 across the board)


Granted I'm nowhere near capped with a wizard but it seems like 161/75/67 is better for immolation and bolt wizards alike.

[Fallen]

It basically boils down to how much outside spells you are going to have to wear to survive in an environment where you might actually be attacked before you can immolate your target.

[audioserf]

Rim's 153/75/75 is looking really solid. Doesn't seem to be much benefit, as GSIV is currently set up, to being balanced in spell distribution. MjE is the powerhouse circle.

[whiteflash]

How are those thing's bolt DS? I know you need a high level bolt, but isn't one of the arcane bolts level 27 or something like that?

And remember you must use above 10th level spells or so on the liches due to arcane barrier.

xxxxx's hands glow with power as he summons elemental energy to his command...
xxxxx gestures at a darkly inked fetish master.
xxxxx hurls a roaring ball of fire at a darkly inked fetish master!
AS: +491 vs DS: +390 with AvD: +70 + d100 roll: +42 = +213
... and hits for 70 points of damage!
Extreme heat causes a darkly inked fetish master's left leg to expand and snap. That must hurt!
The fetish master is knocked to the ground!
The roaring ball of fire strikes a darkly inked fetish master, blossoming into a much larger sphere of flame upon impact.
... 5 points of damage!
Minor burns to chest. That hurts a bit.

xxxxx intones a phrase of elemental power while raising his hands...
xxxxx gestures at an infernal lich.
xxxxx hurls a large boulder at an infernal lich!
AS: +517 vs DS: +457 with AvD: +40 + d100 roll: +8 = +108
... and hits for 8 points of damage!
Blow grazes neck lightly.

xxxxx intones a phrase of elemental power while raising his hands...
xxxxx gestures at a darkly inked fetish master.
xxxxx hurls a large boulder at a darkly inked fetish master!
AS: +517 vs DS: +454 with AvD: +40 + d100 roll: +82 = +185
... and hits for 95 points of damage!
Right arm is torn from shoulder!
The master's rotting wood staff falls to the ground.
The fetish master is stunned!

Searched my logs for an elemental cast at one and didn't see it. Most of the time these bolts were being casted these things were prone and stunned. Not sure what that does to bolt defense but it may be slightly higher than what is shown here. Going through my logs bolt defense seemed to move between 290 on the low end and 460 on the high end.

Here's what happens if you let one cast....

Against a capped wizard:

An infernal lich assumes a wild-eyed expression as he points a finger at xxxxx!
CS: +477 - TD: +423 + CvA: +12 + d100: +78 - -5 == +149
Warding failed!
xxxxx is suddenly engulfed in flames of pure essence!
... and hits for 28 points of damage!
... 20 points of damage!
Nasty burns to back. Won't be sleeping on that for awhile.
He is stunned!
... 15 points of damage!
Near miss! Cool blast to the lower back and xxxxx staggers.
... 30 points of damage!
Terrible shock to neck fuses larynx shut. A painful death follows.

* xxxxx drops dead at your feet!

[audioserf]

You missed some X's there man.

[whiteflash]

You missed some X's there man.

Thanks for the catch, didn't know if that person wanted me to show their info or not! Some people like to keep their numbers close to hand.

[Rimalon]

Bolting is really impossible in the Scatter, IMO. The siphons are the only ones really susceptible, and you can't use 906 or 908 on the liches (which is where all your DF boost is from fire lore).

Wizards can't afford to play an attrition game up there, with the destroyers lurking around and the relative busy gen rates.

I also get extremely pissed that half the time, liches are IMMUNE to immolation, when they're infernal and not frostborne.

FUCKING BULLSHIT.

[Fallen]

If only Rapid Fire worked with wands/rods.

[droit]

Doesn't hurl boulder have an awesome DF versus robes, even without lore?

[Donquix]

It's like .7 without lore on cloth.

It's like a truck. A big boulder truck.

[audioserf]

Fetish masters seem to go down pretty nicely to bolts in that (albeit brief) clip.

But fuck some liches!

[Askip]

Enchanting was not mentioned by the OP but my capped mage kept WIZ at 101 ranks to ET.

:D

[audioserf]

I did too mention enchanting!

Also, the mark of a true Gemstone OG is using the term "ET" for Enchanting. :)

PS For now I'm settled with 101/101/101. I like being different and want to see how it works for me. If it sucks or I have problems hunting what I want to hunt then I can fixskills, as is the way of GSIV training decisions.

[zzentar]

I guess I did it diff than everyone else. I did 75/100/100. then next I did rank 5 disarm and rank 5 cdef (b/c I like my sticks and nelemar disarms). My next goal is maxing EMC for many reasons, 20% 540 flaring, mana regen among the biggest reasons. Id like to get air higher but thats on back burner, I figure 106 ranks of air is good enough for now, my call wind vortexes a lot and the loss of stance is sweet when followed by a cone of lightning.

[Whirlin]

So, I'm gonna go ahead and bump this ancient thread with the recent emphasis on enhancive enchanting.

After reading the posts here, I'm leaning towards a 100/75/128 build to maximize DS / enchanting. Would that be enough to do at least a 6x enhancive enchant?

[DaCapn]

So, I'm gonna go ahead and bump this ancient thread with the recent emphasis on enhancive enchanting.

After reading the posts here, I'm leaning towards a 100/75/128 build to maximize DS / enchanting. Would that be enough to do at least a 6x enhancive enchant?

Enhancive or fusion? If enhancive, how enhancive?

It doesn't look like people who have enough TPs for 3x SR at cap are having trouble enchanting fusion to 7x. If your training is pretty close to being as good as it could possibly get, it suggests that you shouldn't have trouble achieving equal accomplishments.

Also, the tempering potion formula is on KP.

[Whirlin]

Yeah, wasn't concerned with the temper pour, as it can always be repeated if it fails, was concerned with the cast.

I thought fusions were generally considered to be mid-tier enhancive on difficulty.

But, thanks for the input... I may make another post for post-cap goals. Hopefully I'll be there soon.

[Jeril]

Fusion is actually the easiest to enchant as long as there are no orbs within the item.