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brewen
08-03-2011, 04:03 PM
Okay I just came back to GS and i need to know how to do my stats on my level 53 sorcie.

do we need 2x spell aming?
what is the mana share cap?
what is the climbing swimming cap?

I am lost and would love a socie break down!

Mogonis
08-03-2011, 04:35 PM
The first step is not to use the term sorcie.

brewen
08-03-2011, 04:44 PM
The first step is not to use the term sorcie.

thanks for the input.. but could try to use your vast knowedge to assist me with my training questions?

Mogonis
08-03-2011, 05:22 PM
Me? No. I've never played a sorcerer.

Asha
08-03-2011, 05:37 PM
Okay I just came back to GS and i need to know how to do my stats on my level 53 sorcie.

do we need 2x spell aming?
what is the mana share cap?
what is the climbing swimming cap?

I am lost and would love a socie break down!
You don't NEED spell aiming 2x but it does raise the CS of 708 focused and the power of 720 focused.
So I did 2x.

Mana share cap, I think I just went to 50 in both elemental and spiritual.

Swimming and climbing I thin kwere 50 each too till cap, then raise swimming to like 70.

The 'sorcie' thing is unforgivable.

whiteflash
08-03-2011, 05:53 PM
Okay I just came back to GS and i need to know how to do my stats on my level 53 sorcie.

do we need 2x spell aming?
what is the mana share cap?
what is the climbing swimming cap?

I am lost and would love a socie break down!

1. No. Better for using mage wands, aiming limb disrupt, focused implosion. A few sick souls(jesting here) actually use fire spirit for hunting but until we get baelfire we won't have a viable bolt of our own (and likely not even then.
2. Uh...not sure what you are asking here, 'perfect' share between two chars with 24 ranks of the same mana share will result in maximum sharing. Overtraining gains some mana/pulse but hardly worth the tps.
3. Also not sure what you mean here, you can only train 1x level. Prior to nelemar and rift 20 ranks of both is more than enough to get you anywhere in game.

Training depends on what you want out of your char, maximize killing ability, or have some utility and alternative skills.

a) Maximize spells at all costs, highest CS possible. Runestaff defense, ignore lores.
b) Train as you please but suffer lower CS, use spells like pain, energy maelstrom, wizard wands as main hunting spells.

These two options are obviously not the only choice you can make but are general statements about the way most people train sorcerers.

Good luck and it is best to revel in the snark here.

Asha
08-03-2011, 05:58 PM
The extra mana share just helps with 719.
Fire Spirit OWNS FUCKING FACES with enough spell aim and up to 5 ranks of MoC.
Lores both Necro and Demon to 50 ranks for maximum use of Cloak of Shadows retribution and for Pain Infliction.
Go Runestave till you're capped then do whatever you like just not polearm or you'll sell your character in a mad rage.

brewen
08-03-2011, 09:31 PM
so what IYO is the best leveling skill placement to get you to cap with the least amount of issues, and if you don't mind giving me some good ideas as to where to hunt from 50-60 i promiss i will never use the word sorcie again.

whiteflash
08-04-2011, 02:12 PM
so what IYO is the best leveling skill placement to get you to cap with the least amount of issues, and if you don't mind giving me some good ideas as to where to hunt from 50-60 i promiss i will never use the word sorcie again.

I don't think there is any one 'best'. I'm a hard core 3x spell person with minimal lore, AS/MIU in general, but I can't stand being warded. That being said, at several points on my way to cap I was up to .7x necro lore for the awesomesauce that is pain. At 1x and a 141 endroll 7s hard RT/35% damage, simply amazing. In general, if you can ward something 100% of the time your life as a sorcerer will be way, way, way less frustrating. 702 702 702 702 gets old in a hurry.

I personally favored teras at that point, though if you don't have an empath around I can see hunting the eye being awful. Pyros/elementals/golems are really quite easy for sorcerers (using 711/702/705).

The Black Forest in OTF is also a nice place to hunt (from what I remember 10 years ago) and people favor it today as well. Will also segue nicely into one of the best/easiest hunting grounds for sorcerers, Maghera tower. For those places a high CS will rule all, 719 is your friend.

What will annoy you and frustrate you the most is not having enough mana to finish a hunt either through being warded or not having enough killing power. There is no reason to 1x perception but for personal preference. If you are not using a ton of magic items 30 ranks is plenty. Are you bolting or aiming limb disrupt? If not no real need to 2x spell aim. At cap I have 1x spell aim and 162 sorcerer ranks and still vaporize greater elementals 50% or more of the time. Our lores, minus necro for pain, are utterly without combat usefulness (apart from fringe phase/retribution benefits). Better to kill the damn thing than trust retribution to save you on the off chance you are stunned. I have the lore for good retribution at this point and I don't even use a spell in my cloak.

Just some thoughts, others are quite successful with different builds, just how I feel about training through the levels.

4a6c1
08-04-2011, 03:07 PM
The first step is not to use the term sorcie.

He doesn't know what he's talking about!!

I think sorcie is a fabulous word. You should find as many dark elf sorcies as you can and bounce at them. Actually that's a game we play these days. Try the 'Landing first on one of the nights that the Faendryl Enclave gathers. If that doesn't work you can always make your way to Illistim. There should be alot of scary dark elves there that need a good bouncing.

Happy travels!

azim17
08-04-2011, 03:10 PM
I currently train 1x perception with my sorcerer. I see white's point on this...anyone like to chime in who is pro keeping 1x or is it truly a waste of TPs at some point?

Asha
08-04-2011, 03:48 PM
It's not expensive enough to be a waste it's just more likely to be a slight annoyance when you need those tiny few points to make up that stack you already have for just.. one.. more.. spell!

I 2x'd

whiteflash
08-04-2011, 04:27 PM
I currently train 1x perception with my sorcerer. I see white's point on this...anyone like to chime in who is pro keeping 1x or is it truly a waste of TPs at some point?

Just more of think of it as a cost benefit thing. Perception helps to forage, to see how to get places in game, against thieving, detecting traps, ambush defense, ranged AS. Also maybe against certain cmans? I couldn't tell a difference in getting hit with bandits with my 20 rank sorcerer zero CMAN skill and a 2x perception, 2x CM rogue.

1x perception at level 50 you could trade for 4 spells or so. 2x at level 50 those tps would provide around 14 spells. Depending on where you are in training sorcerer spell ranks that is anywhere from 3-10 CS. While some may say, why bother! Those extra CS typically translate into a 3-10% additional chance to hit something with your spell. Nearing cap the differences in CS will be more pronounced and where missing a spell can be all it takes.

Others swear by perception, I just have never noticed it being very helpful on my chars that have both 2x and 3x'd it.

I wish it wasn't so biased towards sorcerers needing max CS, but our warding margins are so thin and spells have virtually zero crit chance. If you are a growth placed giant/dwarf sorcerer (both very nice options) you can already be at a 20 CS penalty compared to your dark elven compatriots. Add in another 10-15 CS in additional spell training and you are 30-40 CS lower than how many creatures have been designed to defend against sorcerers.

/I may or may not be bored at work

brewen
08-05-2011, 12:40 PM
PF will help me with CMANs? if that is the case should i 1x to cap??

msconstrew
08-05-2011, 12:51 PM
I currently train 1x perception with my sorcerer. I see white's point on this...anyone like to chime in who is pro keeping 1x or is it truly a waste of TPs at some point?

If you're doing Guild work, then 1x Perception is practically essential. If not, then it's probably not necessary (though still a nice thing to have if you've got the TPs).

Fallen
08-05-2011, 01:02 PM
I'm 2x perception and love it. It adds to maneuver protection and I enjoy watching all those stealthy types fumble about in the shadows. I was 1x perception coming up to cap.

brewen
08-05-2011, 01:46 PM
I'm 2x perception and love it. It adds to maneuver protection and I enjoy watching all those stealthy types fumble about in the shadows. I was 1x perception coming up to cap.

I looked it up and i had not seen any where that it added to CMAN protection. How can we confirm?

http://www.play.net/gs4/info/skills.asp#perception
http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Perception

Fallen
08-05-2011, 02:51 PM
This issue is often muddied by terminology. Perception will not help you with the CMAN system. This is based primarily off of known CMANs, CM training, and level. On the other hand, there are critter maneuvers such as roa'ter burrows that have nothing to do with the CMAN system, and perception definitely plays a roll in defense of that, as does CM and Physical Training, along with being trained for your armor. Perception will also aid against DS pushdown from ambushes, be they from players or critters.

As for how this is known for certain, the information was taken from several GM posts on the officials (I want to say Coase or Mestys). Give me a bit and I will see if I can dig them up.

Fallen
08-05-2011, 02:57 PM
Here is a post from a useful thread here on the PC. It is an X-post from the officials, originally by Mestys I believe: http://forum.gsplayers.com/showpost.php?p=918932&postcount=12

The important part is as follows:



>Lastly, what exactly helps in dodging stone fist? It doesn't seem to be physical skills (since I get hit every time), and yet it doesn't seem to be magical skills (since casters get hit almost every time). -Grendeg

The Illoke creatures' Stone Fist spell is primarily based around the standard maneuver roll. Spells such as Mobility (618), Prayer (313), and Dauntless (1606) will benefit you. Ranks in Combat Maneuvers, Perception, and Physical Fitness will also be of assistance. The Dexterity and Agility stats also play a role.

-M.

Note that this information has been restated several times by other DEV GMs as well, beyond the scope of Illoke.

brewen
08-05-2011, 04:57 PM
you are the man!! so do you feel that training PF over 24 ranks is needed as well to assist in this or do you feel perc is plenty?

Fallen
08-05-2011, 06:38 PM
Pre-cap, no. Post cap, definitely.

Gibreficul
08-07-2011, 11:08 PM
My Shattered sorcerer is level 56, and... a dwarf... with stats placed to max at cap. That said, CS was a bitch for me up until very recently. I managed... here's a clip of a current hunt... There's more than 1 way to skin a cat.


>[Bonespear Tower, Hallway]
You notice a waern and an eidolon.
Obvious exits: south, west
>You are now targeting an eidolon.
> DISPEL METHOD INITIATED
You trace a simple rune while intoning the mystical phrase for Elemental Dispel...
Your spell is ready.
>You gesture at an eidolon.
The brilliant luminescence fades from around an eidolon.
The elemental aura around an eidolon wavers.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>Your disk arrives, following you dutifully.
>You utter a light chant and raise your hands, beckoning the lesser spirits to aid you with the Spirit Dispel spell...
Your spell is ready.
>You gesture at an eidolon.
The very powerful look leaves an eidolon.
The white light leaves an eidolon.
The hazy film around an eidolon fluxes chaotically!
... 30 points of damage!
Strong assault amputates the leg at the knee.
It floats in the air a moment before drifting back into place!
It is knocked to the ground!
The eidolon is stunned!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>A waern claws at you!
AS: +286 vs DS: +398 with AvD: +36 + d100 roll: +17 = -59
A clean miss.
>You trace an intricate sign that contorts in the air while forcefully invoking Disintegrate...
Your spell is ready.
>You gesture at an eidolon.
CS: +314 - TD: +217 + CvA: +25 + d100: +84 == +206
Warding failed!
A dull grey beam snakes out toward the eidolon!
... 72 points of damage!
... 35 points of damage!
Left arm ripped in half at the elbow!
The fallen arm evaporates as a new one materializes.
... 72 points of damage!
Various bits of the eidolon melt away!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>You are now targeting a waern.
>A waern just arrived.
>You trace an intricate sign that contorts in the air while forcefully invoking Mind Jolt...
Your spell is ready.
>You gesture at a waern.
CS: +314 - TD: +190 + CvA: +25 + d100: +32 == +181
Warding failed!
Its eyes flash with a searing jolt of light!
It is heavily stunned!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>You are now targeting a waern.
>A waern shakes his head violently while trying to regain his bearings!

>A waern claws at you!
At the last moment, you parry the blow with your runestaff!
>You trace an intricate sign that contorts in the air while forcefully invoking Mind Jolt...
Your spell is ready.
>You gesture at a waern.
CS: +314 - TD: +190 + CvA: +25 + d100: +65 == +214
Warding failed!
Its eyes flash with a searing jolt of light!
It is badly stunned!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>You are now targeting an eidolon.
>A waern shakes his head violently while trying to regain his bearings!

>You trace an intricate sign that contorts in the air while forcefully invoking Disintegrate...
Your spell is ready.
>You gesture at an eidolon.
CS: +314 - TD: +217 + CvA: +25 + d100: +22 == +144
Warding failed!
A dull grey beam snakes out toward the eidolon!
... 56 points of damage!
The eidolon shudders in spectral agony, then begins to rapidly dissipate.
The bright luminescence fades from around an eidolon.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>You search the eidolon.
You discard the eidolon's useless equipment.
It had 34 silvers on it.
It had a piece of citrine quartz on it!
It had nothing else of value.
An eidolon fades into oblivion.
>You are now targeting a waern.
>A waern shakes his head violently while trying to regain his bearings!

>You shudder as your life force is torn and reshaped!
You feel drained!

The build...


Armor Use..........................| 40 8
Physical Fitness...................| 126 33
Arcane Symbols.....................| 158 58
Harness Power......................| 157 57
Elemental Mana Control.............| 120 30
Spirit Mana Control................| 120 30
Perception.........................| 70 15
Climbing...........................| 82 18
Swimming...........................| 82 18

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 38

Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 38

Spell Lists
Sorcerer...........................| 98

All that said... spell aiming is totally unnecessary. Just set your target to clear. I know I'm reaching the areas where more swim and climb (and perception) are more necessary, so that's going up, along with PF ranks. My key is keeping my spells maxed out and letting everything else just fall as it may.

Kymbe
08-08-2011, 02:53 AM
Gib I don't see any training in weapons. Are you open handed?

Gibreficul
08-08-2011, 03:20 AM
Gib I don't see any training in weapons. Are you open handed?

Runestaff

subzero
08-08-2011, 06:37 AM
Gib I don't see any training in weapons. Are you open handed?

http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/2149/633838673083134865facep.jpg

Kymbe
08-08-2011, 05:35 PM
Uhh... sorry chimpanzee (who looks like an orangutan) but wouldn't that require MIU? I'm new to the magic world

subzero
08-08-2011, 11:22 PM
To use a runestaff, you need to train a minimum of 8 ranks per level in "magic" skills; MIU, AS, spells, etc.

Murkshev
08-09-2011, 01:23 AM
Get the list complete. Magic Item use, arcane symbols, harness power, spell aiming, mana controls, any lores, and spell ranks, any of the 3 circles count towards the needed ranks per level. I average 10.75 per level currently.

Gibreficul
08-10-2011, 07:55 AM
To use a runestaff, you need to train a minimum of 8 ranks per level in "magic" skills; MIU, AS, spells, etc.

That's wrong. Just straight up wrong. There is no "minimum requirement." There is an equality point, at 8 ranks per level, when you are considered to be trained 1x for parry defense purposes. If you're only 6x per level, you're considered .75x in your weapon skill for parry defense purposes. The same is true for training more than 8x in those skills per level.

Riltus
08-10-2011, 11:02 AM
That's wrong. Just straight up wrong. There is no "minimum requirement." There is an equality point, at 8 ranks per level, when you are considered to be trained 1x for parry defense purposes. If you're only 6x per level, you're considered .75x in your weapon skill for parry defense purposes. The same is true for training more than 8x in those skills per level.

Gib is correct about the no minimum requirement but is actually understating the 'magic ranks converted to weapon ranks' percentage. The ranks per level are front-end loaded and the total percentage is level dependent due to the 10 bonus ranks. Ranks 1 to 4 are each equivalent to 0.15x weapon training. Ranks 5 to 11 are 0.10x each and ranks above 11 are 0.05x each. There is a proration for partial ranks. So, with 6 ranks per level you will have:

(level * .15) + (level * .15) + (level * .15) + (level * .15) + (level * .10) + (level * .10) = ((level * 0.8) + 10 bonus) weapon ranks

Examples:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
6 magic ranks per level converts to the following number of weapon ranks including the 10 bonus ranks:

Level 20 = 26 weapon ranks or the equivalent of 1.3x per level weapon training
Level 50 = 50 weapon ranks (1x trained)
Level 100 = 90 weapon ranks (0.9x trained)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

8 magic ranks per level converts to exactly (level + 10) weapon ranks.

Level 20 = 30 weapon ranks (1.5x trained)
Level 50 = 60 weapon ranks (1.2x trained)
Level 100 = 110 weapon ranks (1.1x trained)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

11 ranks per level:

Level 20 = 36 weapon ranks (1.8x trained)
Level 50 = 75 weapon ranks (1.5x trained)
Level 100 = 140 weapon ranks (1.4x trained)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Mark

subzero
08-10-2011, 03:31 PM
That's wrong. Just straight up wrong. There is no "minimum requirement." There is an equality point, at 8 ranks per level, when you are considered to be trained 1x for parry defense purposes. If you're only 6x per level, you're considered .75x in your weapon skill for parry defense purposes. The same is true for training more than 8x in those skills per level.

And would you suggest to someone to ever train less than 1x in a weapon skill?

As to Riltus' info, I was always under the impression that 8 ranks was roughly equal to 1x weapons for some reason.

Gibreficul
08-10-2011, 04:48 PM
And would you suggest to someone to ever train less than 1x in a weapon skill?

As to Riltus' info, I was always under the impression that 8 ranks was roughly equal to 1x weapons for some reason.

We're not talking weapon skills, we're talking runestaff defense. So, especially on a sorcerer, YES, I WOULD suggest under 1x "weapon training" if that's what it takes to max out your spells ASAP. I'd especially do that before I post something false like you did... about a minimum requirement that doesn't exist.

My sorcerer in Shattered is just about 6x per level in runestaff skills. Not having any problems whatsoever.

As for Riltus's post, that was awesome.

subzero
08-10-2011, 08:22 PM
We're not talking weapon skills, we're talking runestaff defense. So, especially on a sorcerer, YES, I WOULD suggest under 1x "weapon training" if that's what it takes to max out your spells ASAP. I'd especially do that before I post something false like you did... about a minimum requirement that doesn't exist.


All a sorcerer uses a weapon for is defense, same as a runestaff. The expectation is 1x in the appropriate skills, whatever they may be labeled. As far as the "requirement" I mentioned, we'd be arguing over semantics. You don't need 1x edged weapons to use or defend with a sword any more than you need 6x magic ranks for a runestaff.


My sorcerer in Shattered is just about 6x per level in runestaff skills. Not having any problems whatsoever.

But your training plan is boring! (moreso than normal for sorcerers, if you can believe that)

Gibreficul
08-10-2011, 09:48 PM
But your training plan is boring! (moreso than normal for sorcerers, if you can believe that)


Boring works. That's why we script it.