Two-Weapon Combat Question

[Iamurfriend]

Hey Guys,

I've recently started playing again after quite a few years and currently have a twc rogue at level 11. I'm considering buying a new weapon and was wondering what you all would suggest. I mostly ambush legs and am currently wearing leather.

I appreciate any help/advice that can be given, I just don't want to spend the silver then end up regretting it.

Thanks,

-Friend (malisee)

[kookiegod]

Shortswords, handaxes, and daggers are all fairly great for speed.

Other good combos assuming you got the agi/dex and are fast (or lots of TPs) are longsword/broadsword and shortsword, or two katars.

Test out with cheap store bought stuff to see what you can live with for RT and then spend out the ying-yang to get the best.

[Asha]

If Katars are too TP intensive, get your hands on a couple of Sai and be Raphael!

[Gibreficul]

If Katars are too TP intensive, get your hands on a couple of Sai and be Raphael!

Sais are great because they puncture only. Sais are bad because they're basically daggers with +1 second RT.

[Ayamei]

Try 2 flaring short swords. With my TWC rogue I either use a rapier and gauche or 2 flaring short swords.

[Iamurfriend]

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the advice.

I am still within my 30 days so i'm pretty sure i can fixskills or fixstats for free still. I think I have about 10 days left, so I wanted to make sure there are no glaring holes in my stat placement or training. I know this is a bit off topic, but I didn't want to be obnoxious and make another new thread.

Name: Malisee Race: Half-Krolvin Profession: Rogue (not shown)
Gender: Male Age: 0 Expr: 157185 Level: 11
Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 93 (31) ... 93 (31)
Constitution (CON): 83 (26) ... 83 (26)
Dexterity (DEX): 84 (17) ... 84 (17)
Agility (AGI): 85 (22) ... 85 (22)
Discipline (DIS): 82 (16) ... 82 (16)
Aura (AUR): 92 (21) ... 92 (21)
Logic (LOG): 63 (-4) ... 63 (-4)
Intuition (INT): 31 (-9) ... 31 (-9)
Wisdom (WIS): 61 (0) ... 61 (0)
Influence (INF): 28 (-16) ... 28 (-16)
Mana: 8 Silver: 450



Malisee (at level 11), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Two Weapon Combat..................| 108 26
Armor Use..........................| 58 12
Combat Maneuvers...................| 90 20
Edged Weapons......................| 108 26
Ambush.............................| 102 24
Physical Fitness...................| 66 14
Dodging............................| 132 36
Harness Power......................| 5 1
Stalking and Hiding................| 102 24
Perception.........................| 62 13
Climbing...........................| 54 11
First Aid..........................| 62 13
Training Points: 25 Phy 51 Mnt

Once again, any and all advice will be considered. Thank you all for your continued help.

-Friend (Malisee)

[DoctorUnne]

That's a solid training plan. You will want to pick up some MOC when you have the spare points. Ideally 35 ranks but start with 15 as your first goal.

As for the stats, they look good although you'll find some of them will hit 100 soon and then there will be no room for growth. Not a big deal but you'll probably want to eventually buy a fixstat once you get to cap.

[kookiegod]

That's a solid training plan. You will want to pick up some MOC when you have the spare points. Ideally 35 ranks but start with 15 as your first goal.

As for the stats, they look good although you'll find some of them will hit 100 soon and then there will be no room for growth. Not a big deal but you'll probably want to eventually buy a fixstat once you get to cap.

I'd drop strength and aura a bit and boost logic to learn faster.

The 3x dodge is costing you a TON. I'd drop that to 2x, and boost Hiding to 3x and you should boost armor to get into brig (30 ranks) as quick as you can, and onto metal armors after that.

Yah, MoC for mstrike, 35 ranks for 2:1 shots, you'll love that. :)

[Iamurfriend]

Thanks for the responses. I really do appreciate the input. I'm gonna drop down to 2x dodge.

Should I be going 2x armor untill i'm capable of wearing brig? Or more like 1.5x?

Also, I tried out two short swords and didn't feel much difference. All the RT's are the same, I'm wondering what the advantage is in using a smaller weapon if it doesn't reduce my RT.

Thanks again for all your help.

-Friend (malisee)

[DoctorUnne]

Definitely don't go higher than 1x armor. By the time you really need the heavy armor you'll be able to get it with just 1x. Since you're not picking, you probably want either 3x dodge or 3x hiding. They're both for defensive purposes and both pretty effective at 3x. Dodge is more expensive TP-wise but you'll really like the extra DS. I think it's basically just personal preference and also how easy spells are for you to come by.

As for weapons, you're probably seeing the same RTs since your AGI and DEX are high enough to cut 3 seconds off the base RT for whichever weapon combo you choose. That means you can swing even two handaxes in 5 seconds. Where you'll notice the speed advantage of the smaller weapons is when ambushing or mstriking.

[andrew wiggin]

Old love die hard. 20 years later, people still can't give up their love for edged weaponry even with introduction of new weapon classes and a multitude of weapon bases.

little fyi so ambushers are more aware. shortswords also do crushing damage, which is bad for eyeshots. fist-scythe in it's place with similar df does only slashing and puncture as is katar.

daggers, rapiers and estocs are good eyeshot weapons for edge.

Handaxes, which ambusher use for headshots. aside from slash and crush, also does puncture damage which is bad for headshots. might as well go with a morning star for superior df. or maces with almost just as good df and crush only.

I have done 1000 swing test of damage type frequency for all the edged weapon and most brawling weapons. unfortunately that was a bit ago when brawling was introduced to figure what is the superior ambushing weapon and I don't have the data anymore as that was for personal gain.

Would be nice if someone redo that and put it up on krakki. we'll really see the finite details of a weapon and can help folks make better assessment with their weapon of choice.

[droit]

Handaxes, which ambusher use for headshots. aside from slash and crush, also does puncture damage which is bad for headshots. might as well go with a morning star for superior df. or maces with almost just as good df and crush only.

Handaxe does only slash and crush, no puncture.


I have done 1000 swing test of damage type frequency for all the edged weapon and most brawling weapons. unfortunately that was a bit ago when brawling was introduced to figure what is the superior ambushing weapon and I don't have the data anymore as that was for personal gain.

This would be extremely useful. I did this for a few weapons a while back, but I don't have the results anymore either. Happen to remember the ratio for claids?

[DoctorUnne]

I'd also find that useful. Maybe it would be easier if a few of us each did a few different weapon bases. I'd be willing to do maybe 100-200 swings for each; that should provide a large enough sample size. I'll do handaxe and dagger since I have them and they're popular so people will be interested. Any suggestions for good monsters to test on? Was thinking something lowish level with a lot of HP in heavy armor that I could focused mstrike from defensive. That would give results very fast. Ice giants maybe?

[droit]

Ice giants were going to be my suggestion, too, though frost giants might make up for lower level with ease of travel and abundance (titans too).

[andrew wiggin]

I stand corrected with the handaxe damage types. I'll correct myself with the fist-scythe that it does crushing also, at a very small rate.

with too many info being incorrect. i'm embarrassed to further post on this topic.

as for claids, never done testing on it. but have used it and just from witnessing it. all I can say, so I don't make another wrong statement. is it does more slashing than crushing. but crushing isn't infrequent, it's a noticable amount of crushing, give you a rough picture (~65% slash/~35% crush)

[andrew wiggin]

I'll do polearms. Have a starting paladin going and really interested in the open ambushing potential of jeddart-axes. if it just have 50/50 slash/crush. that would make it worthy to head ambush with.

[andrew wiggin]

when I did my testing, I did it on rats. safe and plentiful and you can roll up any little character for the weapon type to go test it.

[DoctorUnne]

For handaxe I got 63 crushes and 37 slashes, assuming "Quick feint to the xxxx's right foot. Little extra damage" is a slash. I didn't see it on my list, but it's a rank 0 and I never saw the rank 0 slash crit to the leg on my list which is "Light, bruising slash to the xxxx's right thigh."

[andrew wiggin]

that's an odd number for the handaxe result.

I got nice even numbers so far for:


Lance - 100 swings - 67 puncture 33 crush = 66.6% puncture / 33.3% crush
Jeddart-axe -120 swings - 55 slash 65 crush = 45% slash / 55% crush


when I finish all the poles, i'll post them all at once here. going pretty quick killing rats.

[DoctorUnne]

100 isn't that large a sample size. It could easily be +/- 5% either way and be well within the realm of statistical possibility. I've refined my technique a bit and it's going much quicker now. I'll do some more handaxe when I'm back later to zero in on the true split.

Just got 63 puncture and 37 slash for dagger.

I've found arctic titans on the glacier are great. I also open ambush the back and since I aim well I quickly memorize all the possible crits (including chest which is the default backup after the back gets ruined) which saves a lot of time looking up the crit tables. You also need a way to knock them over since otherwise they're too tall to hit the back.

I can do 100-sized samples in about 10 minutes.

[andrew wiggin]

daggers looking very sexy with that result

[droit]

yeah, dagger ambushing is tits.

One of you do claids next. I'm wondering about warrior resistances in the Scatter.

[andrew wiggin]

newstyle claidhmore base. - 100 swing - 61 slash / 39 crush = concluding at 60% slash / 40% crush

[droit]

Thanks.

[DoctorUnne]

What % of the destroyers have claids? It's pretty low isn't it? I don't think there is a clearcut winner for resistances in the scatter. You could go crush since most of the destroyers have mauls, slash for the ones that have claids (or more importantly in my opinion the siphon maneuever attacks), or puncture for the spike thorns

[droit]

Yeah, all three damage types are pretty well represented. I'd actually put the maul:claid ratio of destroyers at 50:50. I was sort of hoping claids would be more crush than slash because that'd give crush a clear advantage over slash. I find the siphon maneuver easy to dodge, not very damaging/disabling and pretty infrequent. However, crawler burrows kill with slash crits (but I haven't died from one of those in ages). Then, there's fetish master spike thorn. It's a hard choice. I only ever die when I'm highly encumbered, but when I do it's either from a destroyer tackle/mstrike or a fetish master thorn.

I'm sort of leaning towards puncture.

[DoctorUnne]

I die from whatever happens right after I massively fail a warding roll or get spiked really badly. Often they're not mutually exclusive.