Soulpieced's take on things

[Soulpieced]

As most of you know, there are plenty of changes looming. I understand that no amount of current player discontent can do anything about Simu's continuation of project Gemstone IV. Staff (Melissa) is responsible for unrelenting drive to create a new world of Gemstone. However, I think that too much blind faith has been given to probably the single person responsible for 80% of the game mechanics being Warden. While I fully understand that he is competent and an exceptional coder, I can also think that the whole game is changing into what HE wants it to be. Some may think this is not a big deal, but I for one, would like to think that Gemstone has been created by and for the players. Now we appear to be moving in the direction that Gemstone will be the game envisioned by 1 or 2 people, not the whole. We have tons of fancy new game mechanics, forced training paths, spells that aren't what they used to be. And all for what? Just so things can be easier to program? A more "balanced" game? Such will never happen.

Equality doesn't exist in Gemstone professions, so why can't it be left at that? Again, I fully understand that nothing I, nor any petition, may say will change what Melissa wants Gemstone to become. But what happens when everything is fully functional, and dare I say it, people DON'T enjoy it. Looking at my current training path under GSIV, here is what I'll be able to train in. 2x CM, edged. 1x armor, shield, spell, dodge. Yes folks, that is it. How are we supposed to be diverse when training paths are literally forced down our throats? Heck, there are still stupid bugs in the character manager in the test game. And the whole thing is supposed to be finished in a MONTH? Come on.

Lastly, just looking at the spell changes alone is very disheartening. I'm going from all 10x sonic gear and max elemental targeting and barrier. To cruddy 7x gear and not even being able to cast 430 without having 10 seconds of casting roundtime. Excuse me? While not bard related, 1 minute non-stackable duration on wall of force and wizard shield?! 2 perfectly good spells made absolutely useless? Wow. Note I won't even mention Singing Sword Song, as the sheer magnitude of everything else makes it pale in comparison, and I doubt it should even be a figment of our imagination if the future of our game is at stake.

The main thing I want to come across is that serious things need to be addressed. Is the magical theory of "profession wide game balance" really worth the cost of destroying a sizeable portion of the current player base, not to mention an already very enjoyable game for at least most people currently playing? I hope these things have been thought of on staff, as well as the POSSIBILITY that Gemstone IV may flop. Good day.

[GS4Gurl]

Soulpieced, I totally agree. I for one wish they would've just fixed the things that NEEDED fixing and just leave the rest completely alone. Why are they making such drastic changes? Have so many people left the game because of poor customer service that they have to resort to doing something NEW and drastic to attract more business and are they hoping old customers will come back to see whats going on? I think this is their plan. However, I think it may blow up in their face. Yes they may attract brand new customers but the old crowd who do not like change will be forced to leave. In the end I think they will lose much more than they ever hoped to gain. And thats too bad. I haven't left the game completely, myself. I am afraid I will though. I am waiting to see what its going to be like. If I like the changes I will stay. If not then I'm outtie cus I liked the old ways. I was comfortable with the old ways despite the things that needed fixing. I think there are a lot who feel like I do. If they like it they'll stay... if not then they're going to leave.

[Kurili]

I am hoping it was a bug, but in the wee hours a while back, I went to the test and reallocated a 30-train Cleric. Trained her fully (1x) in OHE....and when I got done, she couldnt even kill a rolton with her blade.

If that wasnt a bug, it's kind of ridiculous

[Edaarin]

You hit the nail on the head there. It seems like the only professions walking away relatively unscathed are warriors and clerics, in terms of training costs. The magical rogue is certainly dead. The jack of all trades rogue is useless. Sorcerors are being pushed one way or another into necromancy or summoning, and it's been made clear that they're going to make it difficult for you to be even moderately well trained to use both summoning spells.

I honestly didn't mind the level compression, as long as they tweaked skill costs and required ranks accordingly, but I have not seen one iota of evidence or any indication how much tweaking there will be. My advice is, get as many levels as possible between now and winter, because there is absolutely no way that this thing will launch in a month.

This game has been going downhill for the last year and a half, starting with GPIII. Do a who full sometime and you'll see what I mean. 500 people online at 2 pm? Maybe 700-800 on a weeknight, or 980 tops on a weekend. A few years ago, you'd always see at least 1000 people on, during AOL, the volume got so bad that lag was a constant problem. They're really shooting themselves in the foot.

[Taernath]

Originally posted by Edaarin
My advice is, get as many levels as possible between now and winter, because there is absolutely no way that this thing will launch in a month.


100% agreed. Hell, the test instance is still riddled with bugs, and none of the larger projects (breakage, CM skills, level independant skill training) have even been introduced yet. There is no way in hell GSIV will be ready by early September, I think a 2004 release date is far more likely.

[Wethalhalas]

As a rogue, I'll be the first to say that these changes are not hurting us nearly as much as others. With the release of the evade, block, and parry equations, I've found that my DS will be just about the same as it was before, plus I now get about a 10% chance to evade, then a 10% chance to block, and another 10% chance to parry. Physically, depending on whether or not I decide to pick, I can actually be better than I was before. Assuming dodge contributes to redux, my redux may actually be -higher- than it was previously as a pure combat rogue. Also, with the release of lockmastery (finally) I'll be able to only 2x picking and be able to successfully pick for myself without worrying about breaking picks. I can also afford to 2x with only dropping down to 1x CM, and cutting out a few tertiary skills.

However, I completely agree with Soulpieced. I personally don't play anything but a rogue, but after analyzing all of the new costs for semis, it seems like they will have basically no recourse but to fall into forced training paths. And along the lines of pures, I truly don't see any being nearly as powerful as they were before. There are way too many things they have to train in now. For pures, it seems like they will have a whole ton of different training paths... with none of them very viable.

I just wish that we all would have had more input into this in the very beginning. If we had, I think we could have managed a somewhat decent compromise.

[imported_Kranar]

<< My advice is, get as many levels as possible between now and winter, because there is absolutely no way that this thing will launch in a month. >>

You have no idea how good this advice is. I strongly recommend to everyone to powerhunt your ass off before you regret it.

[Lord Deprav]

I agree with you to Soulpieced. Being a Rogue I do not see the mechanics getting any better. What is this junk about picking pockets? OK neat I pick different stuff. First I have to survey an area. Well if someone else trains in picking pockets they very easily can see that I am doing that. Not to mention if I get caught, the item is returned immediately? That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. If I get caught, I like to face the consequences! I love to rp it out and its best that someone kills me!

Don't even get me started on Sorcerers. I worked so hard to make the perfect sorcerer and they crushed 702 and destroyed Dark Catalyst which was my favorite hunting spell....Actually it was the only way I could hunt so young because of my different training path. So they screwed Sorcerers a long time ago (not to mention the change to CS)

My friend tryed explainin how empaths are going to be screwed...He was not pleased. But hey, maybe they will fix fog!

The level cap does not bother me very much though. Like the original one did, but I would never reach that level anyways due to my inconsistent playing. And most games do have level caps.

I hope you guys are right about GS4 coming out next year...but if it doesn't does anyone else notice all the tons of work that they still have to do and that isnt suppose to be scheduled to be released till next year? If there are any players left you may see it done in about 5 years.

To be perfectly honest, I just want to be entertained and see if they actually release breakage.

Lord Deprav/Karnham

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

http://www.play.net/forums/messages.asp?forum=30&category=10&topic=31&message =247

Buy my stuff!

[Edaarin]

You know what's funny? My converted level 54 rogue got caught by a level 2 empath stealing when the watch verb was used. Everytime. Even when I sneaked into the room hidden.

[StrayRogue]

My rogue is going to be uber kthx. However, I agree with SP; I do NOT find it fun having to reallocate, work out a new training plan, lose levels, power, skills, spells, and time relearning skills I am still just getting to grips with.

I also agree that nothing short of a mass exodus from GS will ever persuade Melissa or Warden to change their minds on this crazy plan. When I read the normal boards (a rare event) all I hear is complaining about these changes. Yes, I expect fear etc but come on, if it isn't broke, don't fix it.

[Artha]

You aren't losing freaking levels. You're going from a 160 system to a 100 system. You will be, relatively, the same. Except you will be able to hunt/steal from/pick the boxes of more people/things.

And the reason you hear complaining is because people who like the changes don't feel the need to post and say good job.

[StrayRogue]

NO, you cretin, I am losing alot of stuff. I can no longer pick. I will NO longer be able to cast ewave to hunt. I will have a reduced amount of spells, mana everything. Every single skill and ability I have in GS3 I'll have to a lesser extend in GS4. That is losing. Or do you need me to draw you a picture in crayon?

[Back]

Looking at my current training path under GSIV, here is what I'll be able to train in. 2x CM, edged. 1x armor, shield, spell, dodge.

2x-
CM = 18P 15M
Edged = 9P 3M

1x-
Armor = 5P 0M
Shield = 4P 0M
Dodge = 3P 4M
Spell = 0P 18M

total = 39P 40P

Even if you threw in Harness (0P 5M) it looks like you'll have some extra TPs to play with here and there. I'd only single in CM also, which would free up 12P 10M.

[Edited on 8-11-2003 by Backlash]

[StrayRogue]

I think thats half the point though Backlash; if he is already 2x CM, why should he be expected to reduce his training in that skill or any other skill he currently is doubled in?

[Back]

I think thats half the point though Backlash; if he is already 2x CM, why should he be expected to reduce his training in that skill or any other skill he currently is doubled in?

I can see that, if he was level 10 or so.... but what I posted takes into account doubling CM. And considering his level, shouldn't he have a lot more than 39P 45M to play with?

Not saying he should be happy, nor that he or anyone is wrong, just that I think he'll have a lot more TPs to use on skills even with his current training plan.

[Bobmuhthol]

If you're losing something going into Stormhammer, it's because you don't fucking need it. I reallocated twice, got 8 mana the first time and 3 mana when we got 2x TPs. Reason: I don't need mana.

[Methais]

Just to chime in on the "losing levels" part....it takes almost exactly the same amount of experience to reach the cap in GS4 as it does in GS3.

At 160 in GS3, I'll convert to level 99 in GS4 with 72k until level 100.

And as for "I'm losing skills though" and all that, the requirements for those skills are gonna drop too. Lock difficulties will be lower for their age ranges, etc.

I am pretty baffled and pissed off as to Wizard's Shield and Wall of Force being reduced to a steaming pile of 1 minute-non stackable crap. Who the hell is EVER gonna use it like that? Nobody.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Originally posted by Methais
Just to chime in on the "losing levels" part....it takes almost exactly the same amount of experience to reach the cap in GS4 as it does in GS3.

At 160 in GS3, I'll convert to level 99 in GS4 with 72k until level 100.

And as for "I'm losing skills though" and all that, the requirements for those skills are gonna drop too. Lock difficulties will be lower for their age ranges, etc.

I am pretty baffled and pissed off as to Wizard's Shield and Wall of Force being reduced to a steaming pile of 1 minute-non stackable crap. Who the hell is EVER gonna use it like that? Nobody.

I've already canceled 3 accounts over it. Warriorstone 4 is just that, warriorstone. If I wanted to have dodge skill, I'd roll up a warrior and train in it, not learn mage spells to make me a warrior.

I wish I could do MORE than just cancel my accounts.

[daragon13]

Originally posted by GS4Gurl
Soulpieced, I totally agree. I for one wish they would've just fixed the things that NEEDED fixing and just leave the rest completely alone. Why are they making such drastic changes? Have so many people left the game because of poor customer service that they have to resort to doing something NEW and drastic to attract more business and are they hoping old customers will come back to see whats going on? I think this is their plan. However, I think it may blow up in their face. Yes they may attract brand new customers but the old crowd who do not like change will be forced to leave. In the end I think they will lose much more than they ever hoped to gain. And thats too bad. I haven't left the game completely, myself. I am afraid I will though. I am waiting to see what its going to be like. If I like the changes I will stay. If not then I'm outtie cus I liked the old ways. I was comfortable with the old ways despite the things that needed fixing. I think there are a lot who feel like I do. If they like it they'll stay... if not then they're going to leave.

Poor customer service? Umm sorry to tell you this, there is NO customer service. Maybe if they actually gave the GMs a regular paycheck and pay rate there would be. And maybe set up a phone number for Customer Service and stuff like that. But no, right now there is no customer service.

[Haashek]

OK everyone read this. For once.. I AGREE with Soulpieced.. OMG can you believe that newsflash !! And Artha what are you eating these days? Warden is a nice guy and yeah Melissa is helping him. But who pays the bills? By in large we do ! And in all the silly forums they have held for all professions it would just a joke. They are looking for balance? Come on. The best way is to give what the players want. Unlimited spells high enchants ..invasions that younger ones can be in. The real problem is so many players are at high levels and Simu has no creative minds to create critters in all factions including undead for them to hunt in. What Gemstone needs is a better treasure structure. So I dont have to be stiffed hunting harbs but then go to Spectral Monks in Varunar and make a 100k on the next hunt. They need to balance that. They also need to create more critters for higher level people that are NOT in the rift. and areas in all towns. And I also remember 1000+ people on AOL infact I remember the days it would tell you to try again later.. 1500 was the max in the lands at one time. So the real question is.. When or Will Simu listen to their customers..another customer service issue I see..:cough:

[Scott]

<<<OK everyone read this. For once.. I AGREE with Soulpieced.. OMG can you believe that newsflash !! And Artha what are you eating these days? >>>

Congradulations.

<<Warden is a nice guy and yeah Melissa is helping him. But who pays the bills? By in large we do ! And in all the silly forums they have held for all professions it would just a joke. They are looking for balance? Come on.>>>

They are looking for game balance, however it's currently not working because of people like yourself. You know, a warrior with every spell in the game, and still having redux.

<<The best way is to give what the players want. Unlimited spells high enchants.. invasions that younger ones can be in. >>

Umm no? That's the best way to ruin the game. If customers got what they want, best buy would be selling 55 inch TV's for $50. Give me a break. That is the absolute dumbest statement I have ever heard in my entire life.

<<<The real problem is so many players are at high levels and Simu has no creative minds to create critters in all factions including undead for them to hunt in.>>>

That isn't a problem. There are how many professions in the game? Not everyone has capped all the professions. There are millions of other things you can do other then further progress yourself past 160. However yes, the undead gap does need fixed.

<<<What Gemstone needs is a better treasure structure. So I dont have to be stiffed hunting harbs but then go to Spectral Monks in Varunar and make a 100k on the next hunt.>>>

You know what else helps you? Not spending 25k for a spell up. Not spending 8m on FGB AS A WARRIOR. Learn the game a little better. It's not hard to make money in the game, it's just you can't powerhunt, make money all at the same time. Pick which one you want to do....

<<<They also need to create more critters for higher level people that are NOT in the rift. and areas in all towns.>>>

There are places to hunt for higher level people. They aren't crowded, so why waste the resources? Until those area's become overcrowded, there is no reason to waste resources on it.


<<<And I also remember 1000+ people on AOL infact I remember the days it would tell you to try again later.. 1500 was the max in the lands at one time. >>>

AOL didn't charge people $10-$50 a month when you claim to have played. Anyone who used AOL could play, for free. Wonder why they had more people.

<<<So the real question is.. When or Will Simu listen to their customers..another customer service issue I see..:cough: >>>

Contrary to what people think, the customer isn't always right. Whether they are in this case..... we will find out.

[Bestatte]

Wow. Everyone's getting so worked up about things that I remember as being the norm. "Way back when" - and no I won't bother anyone with how many years I played or when I started playing...

But back then, wall of force was something only VERY few people had, and mana share was not a common thing. Stackable spells only lasted hmm.. 2 hours maybe? Buying a mage-enchanted 4x set of full leathers was a HUGE deal for sorcerers, and at a whopping 100k in silvers it was an investment of a lifetime.

I think things got WAY too easy for everyone, because everyone kept demanding more ease. As a result of things being too easy, they had to tweak things. And tweak, and tweak, and tweak, til GS became much different from what it was originally intended to be like.

It looks to me like they're just returning everything back to what attracted people to it in the first place, all those years ago. And I for one say YAY! My only smirk is on the level cap. If the game works as it should work, there would be no need for level caps. So that tells me something still isn't working, and they haven't figured out how to fix it and consider a level cap a fix. It isn't.

My advice to Simu: Isolate the problem and find a solution. Don't use level caps as a bandaid.

[Methais]

I don't really mind the level cap, because you can continue to gain experience and train. Sure there's a skill cap, but the GS4 cap is a million times better than the "soft cap" in GS3 where the only part of your character you can really advance is your bank account, and that gets boring fast.

[Warriorbird]

I think the defense issues will sort themselves out. Why? Otherwise Simu will have no customers. At all. Now, the offense issues? People hate parrying on ambushes 5% of the time. How are they gonna like it 35% of the time?

[Methais]

Ambush is gonna have a 35% parry rate?

[Warriorbird]

Factor in the base 5%....toss on evasion/block/parry... and the pures who are running in fear have less ground to stand on.

[Solkern]

Here about this gs4 coming into affect...All i gotta say is remember breakage...how it was suppose to come out....3 years later will be here next month...another 3 years pass, will be here shortly, All because simu says something, don't expect it to be done withthin the decade..thank you...

[Methais]

Naa I think they're serious about breakage this time.

[Soulpieced]

Naa I think they're serious about breakage this time.

.

Except old bards and their weightless 7x gear... mwahaha.

[Soulpieced]

Ahem, weightless unbreakable 7x gear.

[Parkbandit]

Don't tell me that my rogue is not going to be hurt by GS4... because that's a large steaming pile of horse shit.

My rogue currently is:

2x armor
2x edged
2x shield
2x picking
2x disarming
2x perception
Almost 2x CM
4 spells
10 ranks in MIU
11 ranks in scroll
10 ranks in mana share
10 ranks in climbing
10 ranks in swimming
3x hiding

That is going to be no where possible in GS4.

Will he be viable? Of course..

but he will be losing alot of skills that I enjoy him with currently.