Bill Cosby

[Tendarian]

I bet he wont be invited back next anniversary huh?




As Cos tells it, we ain't learnt nothin' yet




The Washington Post

May 21, 2004

Bill Cosby was anything but politically correct in his remarks at a Constitution Hall bash in Washington commemorating the 50th anniversary of the Brown vs. Board of Education decision. To everyone's astonishment, laughter and applause, Cosby mocked everything from urban fashion to black spending and speaking habits.

"Ladies and gentlemen, the lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal," he said Monday night. "These people are not parenting. They are buying things for kids - $500 sneakers for what?

"And they won't spend $200 for 'Hooked on Phonics.' ...

"They're standing on the corner and they can't speak English," he said. "I can't even talk the way these people talk: 'Why you ain't.' 'Where you is.' ... And I blamed the kid until I heard the mother talk. And then I heard the father talk. ... Everybody knows it's important to speak English except these knuckleheads. ... You can't be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out of your mouth!"

When Cosby finally concluded, Howard University President H. Patrick Swygert, NAACP President Kweisi Mfume and NAACP legal defense fund head Theodore Shaw came to the podium looking stone-faced. Shaw told the crowd that most people on welfare are not African-American, and many of the problems his organization has addressed in the black community were not self-inflicted.

Copyright © 2004, Newsday, Inc.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Well, he makes a point I guess.

[Tendarian]

I can agree with what he said as well but the timing of his words considering where he was at could probably have been better in my opinion.

[DeV]

He does make some very truthful points. I hear kids and adults speaking that way from mostly every race so his point applies to alot of what you see/hear everyday.

[TheEschaton]

The Cos has a point. While many of the problems may not be self-inflicted......they do nothing about it themselves, when they have every capability to do so.

It's a theme in America. Don't take responsibility, if you can shift the blame on someone else.

-TheE-

[DeV]

Originally posted by TheEschaton

It's a theme in America. Don't take responsibility, if you can shift the blame on someone else.

-TheE- I doubt its a question of shifting blame. More so not taking responsibility for your child's lack of willingness to learn. When you look at the parent's and the environment you see why. Most children these days are afraid to learn, or resist learning in school, and parents do not make it a priority. College is not a goal for most and the cycle continues generation after generation.

[TheEschaton]

But I think much of that is psychological. When the prevailing mindset is "the white man [or what-have-you] put me here", and not "I have the power to get out of here/make here a better place", it's shifting blame, and thus, shifting responsibility. Yes, the upper economic classes have a responsibility to help those in the lower economic classes (whether they're rural or urban) out....but the lower economic class must own their poverty, and transcend it...

-TheE-

[Trinitis]

Meh, the only reason people are upset is because the Dr. Cosby is RIGHT! Thats why they are mad! Hit a nerve.

[Weedmage Princess]

Agreed, the E.

There is a lot of complaining, but at the end of the day many of these people aren't getting off their backsides and doing what they should. A point I'm surprised I've not heard brought up yet that I think enables a lot of the negativity that affects the Black and other communities is the media--the "fads" if you will.
People who talk about "shootin' bitch ass niggas dead in the street" and "fuckin chicken head bitches" and kicking them out at "6:15" are glorified. And while yes I understand some of these artists might be talking about their experiences in their music, and no I don't think that they should be censored, I also think it shouldn't be "glorified" as it is, either. Chris Rock I think hit the nail right on the head in his first HBO special when he asks "Who's more racists, Black people or White people?" He said Black people cause even THEY hate the "niggas."

There are plenty of Blacks who are nothing like the people Cosby refers to in what he was saying. They work hard, take good care of their children and live a good life. They are also looked down on by some other Blacks as "not being real." I myself have seen some people come down on Black people who don't speak slang and listen to rap exclusively. They say they're "trying to be white." This is something that I myself have experienced in the Hispanic community. The whole culture is misinterpreted and people now feel that if you're Black or Hispanic you have to be like the rappers and shit you see on MTV and that's just not the case.

It's not the whole problem, but it's sure a big one I think.

[TheEschaton]

I love Chris Rock on this particular topic:

"You come outta school, nobody gives a fuck.
'Hey man, just got out of school, got my Masters.'
'Sowhat, nigga? What, now you think yo' my master'n shit? Look at th' smarty-art nigga. Gonna come up in here wit all yo' readin'n shit? All yo' countin'n shit? I kin count too: one two, fo' five, I be countin' these rocks, biatch!"
But if you come out of jail, you're the fuckin' man.
'Whassup my nigga!'
One thing a nigga'll always do is be proud of stupid shit he has no reason to be proud of.
'I take *care* of my kids.'
What, you want a cookie? You're supposed to take care of your kids!
'I ain't *nevah* been to jail."
You're not SUPPOSED TO GO TO JAIL, you low-expectation, vapid motherfucker!"

[Latrinsorm]

"To everyone's astonishment, laughter and applause"

ergo

Cosby's still got it.

[DeV]

I agree with alot of what you said Weedie. Im also sure people would be hard pressed to know that alot of these rappers are garnering their fortune from the majority of their record sales bought by white suburban kids. Its glorified in real life by the black kids who think this is who how they need to portray themselves in life. They want to go after that bling instead of going after their education. Chris Rock brings it to light and basically everything he says is true. Its sickening and disgusting and its rampid and not found only in the black and hispanic lower economic class, its an rural and urban mindset.

[Atlanteax]

Originally posted by TheEschaton
I love Chris Rock on this particular topic:

"You come outta school, nobody gives a fuck.
'Hey man, just got out of school, got my Masters.'
'Sowhat, nigga? What, now you think yo' my master'n shit? Look at th' smarty-art nigga. Gonna come up in here wit all yo' readin'n shit? All yo' countin'n shit? I kin count too: one two, fo' five, I be countin' these rocks, biatch!"
But if you come out of jail, you're the fuckin' man.
'Whassup my nigga!'
One thing a nigga'll always do is be proud of stupid shit he has no reason to be proud of.
'I take *care* of my kids.'
What, you want a cookie? You're supposed to take care of your kids!
'I ain't *nevah* been to jail."
You're not SUPPOSED TO GO TO JAIL, you low-expectation, vapid motherfucker!"

Both Bill Cosby and Chris Rock speak the Truth...

At least they manage to point it out in a not-so-harsh fashion.

I used to think that Chris Rock was just one of those silly actors/comedians... but I have respect for him nowadays.

How many here actually know what they are talking about? Come on, raise your hands.

[DeV]

There is no hand raising emoticon. :shrug:

[Mint]

My dad has some recordings of Cosby doing standup from years and years ago. The organizers that asked him to speak should have done a little more research if they wanted someone to be politically correct. Cosby was wickedly sharp in regard to social issues in the stand up routines I heard.

[Weedmage Princess]

<raises her hand>

Sure you do.

[Zanagodly]

Doesn't surprise me that Cosby said those things as I remember some old school HBO Cosby standup and he acted very much the same way. I think Cosby was making a point that in celebrating this anniversary, its time for a lot of African Americans to wake up and put a higher priority on education. Lord knows its not the place of a white person to make such statements.

[Galleazzo]

Originally posted by Mint
My dad has some recordings of Cosby doing standup from years and years ago. The organizers that asked him to speak should have done a little more research if they wanted someone to be politically correct. Cosby was wickedly sharp in regard to social issues in the stand up routines I heard. MY dad has those Cosby records from the midSixties. They ruled. Best comedy routines ever and not a single curse.

Anyway the Cos is right. Sorta reminds of me of about 10 years back when the city I lived in had a big debate about that Ebonics shit. Local black businessman was quoted in the newspaper saying something like "I don't know about 'racial pride' and solidarity. What I DO know is I will never hire someone to have contact with the public for my company who thinks the plural of man is 'mans' or that you can 'ax' someone anything."

I won't hire anyone like that either. I got two Asian immigrants on the loading dock and they at least TRY even if their English isn't all that good yet.

[Weedmage Princess]

Originally posted by Galleazzo
Local black businessman was quoted in the newspaper saying something like "I don't know about 'racial pride' and solidarity. What I DO know is I will never hire someone to have contact with the public for my company who thinks the plural of man is 'mans' or that you can 'ax' someone anything."


One of the guys at work (Black dude) answers the phone "Boston East...what's popping?" I always give him shit for doing that, last night was no exception. I told him it's extremely unprofessional and he shouldn't use slang when answering the phones for work ...his answer? "I'm from the hood! You can take the kid out of the ghetto, but you can't take the ghetto out of the kid." I told him if management ever caught him doing that crap, the kid is going right back to the ghetto. I didn't hear him answer the phone like that the rest of the night...heh.


[Edited on 5-22-2004 by Weedmage Princess]

[LordSagan]

The Cos never said anything about one race in particular...

His exact words were "the lower economic people".

There are white people who are as ignorant of the English language and who fit the exact description he gave.

Kind of amusing that the folks from the NAACP assumed he was referring only to black people....slightly racist of them, no?


Ranger,

I know very well what I'm talking about. I was born and raised in the inner city in Washington DC. I lived less than 10 blocks from Howard University for more than 75% of my life.

I watched my very own friends raise their kids doing the same exact stupid shit that Cosby was talking about. I have one friend who has a daughter that just turned 16, half of the age of the mother and father both mind you, who has no clue how to speak proper English....because her parents are too fucked up to bother correcting her.

Do not make assumptions and get righteous. There are plenty of us who grew up in that enviorment.

[Edited on 5-22-2004 by LordSagan]

[Skirmisher]

I'm like totally down and stuff.

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by RangerD1
How many here actually know what they are talking about? Come on, raise your hands.

I do, and it's for the most part true.

Cosby also knows what he's talking about. He's a Temple man.

[HarmNone]

Agreed, Sagan. I read no mention of race in Cosby's comments. What he said is true. As long as an individual is willing to remain ignorant, ignorant is what he/she will be. There are people of every race, creed and color who fit that description perfectly.

Oh, and my mom still has the Cosby records from the sixties, as well. They're a hoot! :D

HarmNone loves Cosby and agrees with the point he was making

[DeV]

Originally posted by LordSagan


There are white people who are as ignorant of the English language and who fit the exact description he gave.
So damn true. I see just as much white and hispanic trash as I do black trash. To me, they all run together and I look at them as one huge group by themselves.

[Hulkein]

He said lower economic people, right?

Well take a look at the races of people who are in the lower economic sphere of a given city.

Where I work I see whites/hispanics talking the same way, it's just there aren't as many of them in these areas.

[Weedmage Princess]

Originally posted by DarkelfVold


There are white people who are as ignorant of the English language and who fit the exact description he gave.
So damn true. I see just as much white and hispanic trash as I do black trash. To me, they all run together and I look at them as one huge group by themselves. [/quote]

:clap: :clap: :clap: :thumbsup: :up:

[HarmNone]

To remain ignorant is a choice. Those who make that choice should be held accountable. That, to me, is what Mr. Cosby was doing....holding them accountable.

HarmNone

[pennywise]

The sad thing about the language issue is that it is continued even in universities. I took a graduate class last semester that involved writing a publishable paper on a historical subject. This assignment included peer reading and editing. I received copies of all the papers, editing several of them, and to tell the truth, some were simply awful. Four of the six papers I edited would have received failing grades for their grammar and writing style. They used common colloquial language to an extant that stopped being humorous mistakes after the first page of the paper. In Memphis, it seems you get two types of language in papers, ghetto and redneck.

I discussed these papers with an old English professor of mine (the papers were for History), and he said that part of the problem is many professors are so worried about failing too many students that they pass students as long as they turn their crap in.

Many of the undergrad papers I have read and helped grade were even worse, but I wont even go into that.

Its just distressing that even after 16 years of education, some people are still not capable of writing an intelligible paper.

(This is written with the assumption that writing style is directly affected by the writer's spoken word)

[DeV]

Pennywise that is also true. My mother is a part-time professor at a University here in Chicago and she has stated that very same issue to her colleagues and myself. The problem is that many professors would have to fail students just based on grammar alone if that was a pre-requisite to geting a passing grade.

[HarmNone]

There was a time when turning in a paper with grammatical errors WAS a reason for a failing grade. Students were aware of that fact and wrote their papers accordingly.

HarmNone

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by HarmNone
There was a time when turning in a paper with grammatical errors WAS a reason for a failing grade. Students were aware of that fact and wrote their papers accordingly.

HarmNone

Yeh, for the most part that ended 8-10 years ago.

I know at my college, the english profs grade on grammer and spelling. But this is short sighted by every other subject at the place not docking points for it. It is always the same. "Spelling and Grammer have little to do with <subject>, so we are not going to grade on it."

Meh.

[pennywise]

Its much the same way in the history department here. Most of the professors grade on content alone, and those who grade grammar and whatnot end up being hated by students who think that its not the professor's area of expertise, what right does he have to grade for it.

Im not the best writer in the world, but at least I had a few teachers care enough about me to teach me proper English language.

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by HarmNone
There was a time when turning in a paper with grammatical errors WAS a reason for a failing grade. Students were aware of that fact and wrote their papers accordingly.

So true. Way way back when I was first starting college, I was forced to take English for idiots: otherwise known as Comp 101. This was /right/ after people started to realize that 'hey, students are getting into college who can't write or do basic math and what are we going to do about it?' So they made Comp 101 mandatory.

Being someone who could already write circles around many college graduates (if I do say so myself) I was not at all happy to discover that so I ended up taking it over the summer at a community college (it being cheaper and quicker and could then be transferred.)

Anyway, I don't recall exactly what one of the assignments was about except that it could be in any style you wanted so I did up a piece of fiction. And my paper came back with a correction for using the word 'ain't' in it. I was a bit annoyed because where it was used was in a bit of dialogue and the character speaking was the type of person who would say 'ain't'. It didn't get me a reduced grade but he did take the time to explain that wasn't proper English and shouldn't be used in a paper.

The point? Back then, it was a problem too but the system was trying to do something about it. Now? Seems it's only gotten worse.

Another anecdote: my sister in law is a teacher and back then she was teaching in what was called a 'disadvantaged school district'. In other words, it was a piss ass poor neighborhood; one of the worst in the area. She was shocked and horrified at the total apathy the parents had when it came to education. Their kids were failing but when she tried to get the parents' to come in and discuss their children and how they could be helped, the parents couldn't be bothered.

It was probably my first real world example of a cyclical culture of poverty. Some people are able to overcome it but they're in the minority.

Raven

[Jazuela]

Agreed and agreed on everything Cos spoke about. And agreed on the whole education/literacy issue. When I was in elementary school phonetics, reading, and writing lessons were mandatory. I don't recall anyone ever failing - failing wasn't an option. There were no consequences to a failed grade, because no one ever thought to test it. Anyone who was doing poorly or struggling would be -immediately- tested for disorders such as dyslexia, and given private tutoring so that they WOULD get a passing mark. Never did the school system even consider lowering their standards just to keep the head-count up.

I had a reading disability in 2nd grade. Mrs. Clark was the teacher (I will never forget that nasty old biddy!) and she would berate me constantly for stuttering when I read out loud. Yet, reading out loud was required in class. Everyone had to take their turn. She was so frustrated at one point she sent me to a speech therapist. It was there that we discovered that my eyes would read too quickly for my mouth to keep up with what I was reading, and I would stutter over the words. I had no stuttering problem -except- when I read out loud. I also had a lisp, which made me very self-conscious and likely contributed to the problem.

After three months of therapy I finally managed to do well enough to pass. I still have a bit of a stammer when I try to read out loud, over 35 years later, but my comprehension skills improved vastly because now my mind is able to understand what the words mean, and I learned to slow my reading down when needed.

If it hadn't been for Mrs. Clark, and the educational system that put here in the classroom. I might not have learned to love reading as I do now. No one reads books anymore. It's very sad. Bring back the three R's and get rid of the politically correct bullshit that encourages illiteracy, is what I say.

Oh and HN and others: I did a google search trying like crazy to find the reference for "an unique." I found only one, in Elements of Grammar. It was outdated and went back to my days in High School. So I concede that point as well :)

-The old fuddyduddy

[Ravenstorm]

The Coz is at it again.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5345290/

Raven

edited to use a 'z'

[Edited on 7-2-2004 by Ravenstorm]

[Drew]

Good for him, someone had to say it

[Satira]

..."Dad is great- he gives us the chocolate cake!"

[Galleazzo]

And until a black with a good legal job and a college degree gets more respect in the "hood" than a rapper or a cop killer, he needs to keep saying it.

The amusing thing was watching Jesse Jackass squirm in his chair as Cosby said that. I had to laugh.

[Weedmage Princess]

Good for him. He's 100% right.

[Wezas]

Every dad should be like Cliff Huxtable.

[Sean]

What I find interesting is Cosby's choice of venue to setup his soap box. By making these tirades at black tie functions and conferences his important topics might be heard and digested by you and I, but is it really going to make a differece?

I'm of the opinion that Cosby is disconnected from the community that he's shaking his finger at. If your going to rip a culture for being illiterate and not going anywhere, why are you making your speeches away from the community so they'll only beable to read about it. To me these things like that no sense. I realize hes, most likely, trying to spark the educated community to come in and change things by lending the helping hand, but really if you aren't getting the message to the source of the problem and they don't want to change themselves are you really helping at solve the problem?

Don't get me wrong I think Cosby does make some good points (Literacy), as well as some really bad ones (some of his linkings about spousal abuse). I just think he might be taking the wrong approach to solving a problem with a problem. However, I might be wrong in my ideas about approach too and I do give him a lot of credit for actually doing something even if it's not the best thing.

On a tangent note however, whens the last time you think the black community as a whole really cared what Bill Cosby had to say? We are talking about a man who at the height of his career was generally regarded as not really being "black enough" in his depictions on television.

[DeV]

These are changing times for the Black community. As we become the second largest minority in the US (to Latinos) we are in danger of becoming politically marginalized. If we lose half of our community to illiteracy, crime, STDs, drugs and just plain laziness it will be even harder for us to remain a force in this country. Cosby is saying we need to take responsibility for educating our children and stop making excuses for them.
How many times has this been said? Too many to count, most of the people who really need to make these changes are not online, they are not watching the news or even slightly interested unless it involves someone they know. They are sitting on their porches drinking a 40, smoking crack, and looking to "come up" by sitting on that same porch. Black or White, until people decide that this is not the way they want to live anymore there`s not much that can be done. They have to make the choice to do it. We can educate them, but it`s still their choice.

[Weedmage Princess]

Originally posted by Tijay
On a tangent note however, whens the last time you think the black community as a whole really cared what Bill Cosby had to say? We are talking about a man who at the height of his career was generally regarded as not really being "black enough" in his depictions on television.

See, this is what I have a problem--a MAJOR problem--with. What makes him any less "Black" than anyone else? His skin is dark; to a racist person who judges people on their physical appearance, he's as black as any other black person.

Why is it that being "Black" has to mean you listen to rap, hip hop and R&B? Or you use street slang? Why does being "Black" have to mean you don't care whether or not you do well in school? Not living in a good neighborhood, etc. etc. The minute someone of color (I'm going to use that term cause the same thing applies in the Hispanic community as well.) deviates from these things; they're not "true to themselves." They aren't "REAL." What the hell?

It's sheer ignorance. They're using a negative stereotype cast on them by people who hate them to identify and validate themselves.

Just because Bill Cosby chose to get an education and make something out of himself does NOT make him any less "black" than the next black person.

[DeV]

I blame it on a disgusting and apalling lack of intelligence. I blame it on the reasoning that, 'Ignorance is bliss so why bother'. I blame it on the mentality that "the man" is the enemy, so why fight, why better yourself.
There is no reason in this world why a child should know every word to a gangsta rap song, yet can't pass kindertarten. Parents are definitely a major part of this ongoing problem. :shrug:

[Skirmisher]

I think the whole parents thing is a part, yes.

We have children having babies out of ignorance and a lack of their own parental monitoring them.

I know its only a part, but I just die when I see some 15 year old kid who is pregnant or already has a child.

It just creates this awful cycle of children too young and far too immature to be parents and teach their children properly.

I think Tijay brings up an interesting point of whether or not that was the correct place to speak as he did, but I am not sure where else he should have where it would have done more good.

[Sean]

Originally posted by Weedmage Princess
See, this is what I have a problem--a MAJOR problem--with. What makes him any less "Black" than anyone else? His skin is dark; to a racist person who judges people on their physical appearance, he's as black as any other black person.

Why is it that being "Black" has to mean you listen to rap, hip hop and R&B? Or you use street slang? Why does being "Black" have to mean you don't care whether or not you do well in school? Not living in a good neighborhood, etc. etc. The minute someone of color (I'm going to use that term cause the same thing applies in the Hispanic community as well.) deviates from these things; they're not "true to themselves." They aren't "REAL." What the hell?

It's sheer ignorance. They're using a negative stereotype cast on them by people who hate them to identify and validate themselves.

Just because Bill Cosby chose to get an education and make something out of himself does NOT make him any less "black" than the next black person.

Not that I disagree, although you do seem to be associating it with something thats internalized in various cultures which I do sort of disagree with, but I think the critisism came from the concept was that he protrayed a black family of upper class nature that dealt with issues that weren't the predominantly associated regarded as issues with the larger portion of the black community. In other words it was a lot of stuff that they didn't relate too and was targeted at a culture other than their own. Again this was really something I considered tangent but worth mentioning.

The real intent of my post, not the portion about whether or not "the coz" was "black" enough, was something more along the lines of the 2nd paragraph of DEV's post following mine.

[Weedmage Princess]

Yeah Tijay I know I went off into left field there...that was just a minor example to show how he could have chosen a better venue to reach the people he's talking about. Like I said, it's just one of my biggest pet peeves, when people say/do that...so...uhm..yeah.

I do agree with you there, by the way..about choosing a better place. However I doubt he'll get invites to speak at such functions now, which is a shame cause it does need to be said.

[Hulkein]

I'm sure Cosby has been saying the same thing to the youth whenever he is working in the city.

[Sean]

Do you think Cosby's targets are the kids ... or the parents ...

I'd argue the parents are his real target.

[Trinitis]

His talks have been targeted at the parents. But I'd bet he has been givin the same type of talks to kids too.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Tijay
I'd argue the parents are his real target. I'd hope so.

[LordSagan]

Tijay hit the nail on the head. The Coz is way out of touch with the community he is talking about. He makes some good points, but he doesn't have the credibility or the respect to make a difference with what he is saying. I don't think Jesse Jackson does, either. It will take someone like P. Diddy (who is incredibly intelligent and smart) to step up and tell the black community to stop wallowing in self pity and stop acting like savages. Then you might get some of the people who the message is intended for to pay attention. Hopefully, that won't take another 10 years to come about.

As far as The Coz not being "black enough"...as said as that statement is, it's true. Every community, whether race based or not, have those that they consider "posuers" and outsiders trying to get in. It's not the color of his skin, it's his attitude and his position in life.

[Edaarin]

I think, Tijay, he chose to air out his frustrations at this event because for the last 20-30 years people tried the other way, of saying things that they thought needed to be said about the "lower socioeconomic class" out of earshot but still in places it could be read. It wasn't coming through to enough people, so he's trying to do it as bluntly as possible, in a way that he can't be ignored. It's not tactful, it might not even be the most productive way, but people are at least talking now.

On a side note, I agree with almost everything he said. There is 0 excuse for anyone, regardless of ethnicity, to fail to instill the need for at the very least a high school education for their kids.

[Edaarin]

Also, Jesse Jackson is a pompous sack of shit.

[Galleazzo]

Originally posted by Tijay
We are talking about a man who at the height of his career was generally regarded as not really being "black enough" in his depictions on television. You're right. Cos wasn't being "black enough" because he dared to play a guy who was well off and dressed well and lived in a nice house and spoke real English. His "issues" weren't "black" ones because they had jack to do with the ghetto or crack or having 7 babies by 5 different women all at once.

Because of course being "black" can't mean living the good life. Now I'm not black, but when a black talks about another black "acting white" that really pisses me off. Because that says that blacks aren't SUPPOSED to live in this society, aren't SUPPOSED to have manners, aren't SUPPOSED to be cultured, aren't SUPPOSED to get ahead.

And they fucking put up with it! Why?

[Edaarin]

Because the thing most people are the most afraid of is not being accepted by their peers. Death? No problem. Being made fun of for having a Power Ranger lunch box (the white equivalent of speaking properly)? Ranks up there with pissing your pants in public.

[Galleazzo]

Yeah, yeah, I should know better.

[Sean]

In my experience, when someone whose black refers to someone else whose black saying "You're acting white." It has nothing to do with their manners, or lack their of. It has nothing to do with fitting into society, or not. It's a lot more superfiscal, generally having to do with things like choice of music, clothing, and other material things. I've never seen someone be accused of acting white for saying please or thank you, I've never seen someone accused of being white for eatting with a fork, knife, and spoon, etc.

In addition it goes both ways. If I said to someone whose white, hey why are you acting black would that mean I'm calling them uncivilized? No. It would mean they are just following trends generally associated with black culture. Have I ever found that necessary or accused anyone of that? No. It is stupid to generalize whole cultures by stereotypes, but it happens.

PS. I still find it amusing that hes complaining about Illiterate people in a medium where unless they are most likely to have to read about it.

[CrystalTears]

Actually when I've heard people refer to someone being "black", they say it because the person is talking street lingo, wearing pants down to their ankles and being rude. :shrug:

[Nakiro]

Bill Cosbey is one of the few black people who actually "keeps it real". :applause:

[asshole89]

bill cosby is the shit. people need to listen.

[Atlanteax]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
Actually when I've heard people refer to someone being "black", they say it because the person is talking street lingo, wearing pants down to their ankles and being rude. :shrug:

Sounds like "black" to me (from my experiences ... overall).

The only two blacks that I heard speak consistent proper english was a judge (speeding ticket several years ago) and an IT instructor (a class last year).

[Sean]

From that post I'm going to assume you don't spend a lot of time around "black" people then.

And to add to that this isn't a "black" only issue, I can probably direct you to the same amount of "white" people who fail to speak proper english on a consistant basis as you could "black" people to me.

[Edited on 7-4-2004 by Tijay]

[HarmNone]

Originally posted by Atlanteax

Originally posted by CrystalTears
Actually when I've heard people refer to someone being "black", they say it because the person is talking street lingo, wearing pants down to their ankles and being rude. :shrug:

Sounds like "black" to me (from my experiences ... overall).

The only two blacks that I heard speak consistent proper english was a judge (speeding ticket several years ago) and an IT instructor (a class last year).

Ish. That could not be further from the truth, in my case. I know any number of well-spoken, well-educated people of all colors.

HarmNone, who couldn't get her comment in the right place :rolleyes:

[Edited on 7-4-2004 by HarmNone]

[Atlanteax]

Originally posted by Tijay
From that post I'm going to assume you don't spend a lot of time around "black" people then.

And to add to that this isn't a "black" only issue, I can probably direct you to the same amount of "white" people who fail to speak proper english on a consistant basis as you could "black" people to me.

[Edited on 7-4-2004 by Tijay]

You're right, I don't.

And yes, it's not only a "black" issue either...

Though I wonder if some of the street slang are whites (asians/hispanics) trying to immitate what they percieve to be black?

That just sounded racist, bah.

Anyhow, I blame it on the schools... they can't teach English anymore...

l33t sp34k is the latest thing to contribute to its erosion.

I forget the name of the actor, but there's this one mofo on MAD t.v. who does a wicked funny Bill Cosby impersonation. That guy rules. And so does Cosby.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Stanley Burrell
I forget the name of the actor, but there's this one mofo on MAD t.v. who does a wicked funny Bill Cosby impersonation. That guy rules. And so does Cosby. That guy (and Mad TV, for that matter) is not that funny. Now Eddie Murphy's impersonation of Cosby is classic.

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by Tijay
And to add to that this isn't a "black" only issue, I can probably direct you to the same amount of "white" people who fail to speak proper english on a consistant basis as you could "black" people to me.

I HAVE spent time with a lot of black people, and worked with a few as well. One of my coworkers is always being told "dude you know you're not black" because he listens to rap, can't talk normally, and wears the "in" baggy clothing.

It's how people these days perceive black people now and that's how they label the people who act the stereotype whether they are actually black or not.

That guy (and Mad TV, for that matter) is not that funny. Now Eddie Murphy's impersonation of Cosby is classic.

That ominous guy does an even wicked funnier impersonation of Eddie Murphy. And Mad TV > SNL.

[Sean]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm
That guy (and Mad TV, for that matter) is not that funny. Now Eddie Murphy's impersonation of Cosby is classic.

Tell Bill I said have a coke and a smile and shut the fuck up.

[Edaarin]

Originally posted by Atlanteax

Sounds like "black" to me (from my experiences ... overall).

The only two blacks that I heard speak consistent proper english was a judge (speeding ticket several years ago) and an IT instructor (a class last year).

I read that post and the one you made after it, and I immediately thought of a Chappelle Show episode (I'm going to assume you've never seen Chappelle Show, but 99% of the content is either poking fun at white people, black people, or both at the same time).

"Have you ever heard someone say something that was so racist, you didn't even get offended? You're just thinking to yourself, God damn...that was racist!"

[Sean]

<<Though I wonder if some of the street slang are whites (asians/hispanics) trying to immitate what they percieve to be black? >>

On a side note, What is a "black" thing? Doesn't it make more sense to define these actions as the popular fad rather than associating them with a culture?

By using cultural associations and saying, "hey thats a black thing." all you are doing is helping the idea along. It's also not really accurate. For example Jamaican culture is much different than Guyanese culture. You'll find extreme differences in a the way "black" Jamaicans act in communities here in the US than you will in a guyanese one. You'll find difference between black americans, black canadians, black europeans, etc. Even within the country I'm sure you can find a difference between inner city "black" behaviors and suburban "black" behaviors. By continuing to refer to acting like a thug, or dressing in baggy clothing, or using slang, etc. as acting "black" aren't you just perpetuating a negative stereotype?

I'm half white/half Spanish. Immune to all stereotypes. Biznatches.