Atkins vs S. Beach

[Ravenstorm]

Has anyone done both of these? I'm looking for an opinion of which is 'better' and what a person is basing that opinion on.

I'm thinking of going on one or the other and they're both reported to be very effective at taking weight off quickly in the short term which is exactly what I want. I can worry about keeping it off afterwards. But before picking one, I thought I'd throw the floor open to opinions on them.

Raven

[Edited on 5-18-2004 by Ravenstorm]

[Snapp]

I honestly don't know much about either.. except that one of my good friends lost 25lbs in a month on the South Beach diet.. but he seemed to be torturing himself over it (and wasn't really over weight to begin with). I don't think I could cut breads and pastas out of my diet.

[Trinitis]

atkins has been prooven to be very bad for the liver and kidneys. I also talked to a guy at my college a few days ago that was on crutches, because the atkins died caused some sort of damage to his legs that he had to go get operated on. So, I've kinda lost any desire to toy with it, personally.

[ThisOtherKingdom]

I think they're both crap. Just cut down on whatever junkfoods you love -- ice cream, cookies, whatever -- and exercise.

I heard Atkins slipped on ice and died.

Then a year later the fact surfaced that the fat bastard actually had a heart attack.

Anyway, I just saw some documentary on HBO today about these horse jockey guys trying to lose weight so they don't kill the horses. I think the solution is for you to not drink any fluids, make constant visits to the sauna, and go in this thing called "The Box." It's gotta be healthier than the Atkins diet.

[longshot]

I think the common sense diet is probably superior to both.

[Miss X]

Yay 4 Longshot. Seriously, just cut out the crap food and exercise and the weight will fall off. I've tried so many different diets and they all suck compared to just eating sensibly. When I was doing Atkins I just craved bread and pasta all the time, and one slip up and your body goes out of ketosis (I think thats what it is) and you end up back at square one. One thing Ive learnt is that there is NO overnight cure for weightloss, its a long term change of eating habbits for life thats needed, imho. :)

[Ilvane]

I have friends at work who are on South beach, and they are losing weight fast. They were suffering the first couple of weeks, but they are doing fine now, aside from really wanting bread.

-A

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I did Atkins for 3 months hard core, and lost 45 lbs on it. Then I slowly added more carbs back into my diet each week and haven't gained a pound. I wouldn't do it as a lifestyle, but its good for a quick drop in weight, and I'm supplimenting the additional carbs with added work outs, so it's all good.

[Miss X]

What kinda stuff did you eat, meal wise SHM? What annoyed me about Atkins is being really hungry and not knowing what kind of food to cook, since I mostly eat pasta or baked potatoes!

[DianaBanana]

Diets are crap. Just dont eat so much junk and start exercising, that's how I dropped about 10lbs. :shibby:

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Yeah, definately understand what you mean Chica. At first I think I ate like steak or chicken for a week, and I was miserable. So I did the research I should have done before... I stayed with a main dish with meat, like chicken, beef or pork, and I started adding things like Tuna and Salmon as the entre.

Some low carb vegetables like Califlower, brocoli, spinach are all good, and bell peppers only have a couple carbs also. I started using splenda for sweetener instead of sugar and never noticed the difference. Cut out "leaded" soda's, and only drink one diet soda a day (Crystal light kicks ass btw - no carbs..tea, lemonade, fruit drinks, all sorts of goodness). I like the low carb milk they make now, and the low carb candy bars are good for snacks (the Atkins wafer crisps are the shit!).

I ate a lot of salads for awhile, and now I'm just down to regular sensible meals, that are still low carb, but I'll have say some toast with my eggs in the morning.

Anyway, the key for me (believe me after a week or two of just meet it felt like) was variety, I eat a HELL of a lot healthier now, just because I had to mix it up so I didn't go insane. I make it a point to have greens with every meal now, I'm concious of what has lots of carbs and sugars and I keep mental track of how much I had on a given day. I cheat and eat the occasional Andy Cap fries or potato chips, or when we go out I'll have desert or what not. I'll make up for it through exercise now, or the next day I'll be more strickt about my diet.

[Miss X]

Hmm, its all so complicated. I basically do food optimising which is built on the principal that its a healthy way of eating for life and everything is ok in moderation. It kind of splits things into two food groups, so I either eat lots of carbs but not much meat/fish or I eat lots of meat/fish and few carbs. Its great because I just eat normally, three meals a day and I eat a ton of fruit. I find its a really good way in the summer to lose the pounds I always put on in winter.

I just started running for 30mins a night too, I'm determined to stop the binge/diet cycle ive been on for years since its probably putting my body through hell.

I've always been pretty weight conscious cos my family are all really thin, and although I'm far from "fat" Im not as skinny as they are and it pisses me off!

[Soulpieced]

<--- Advocate of Common Sense Diet. Drink a lot of water, cut out soda/caloric drinks, cut down salt, cut down saturated fat, and EXERCISE. That simple.

[Jazuela]

Low carb diets work. They are also dangerous if you have no -medical- reason to be on them and are being monitored carefully by a doctor.

If you only want to lose 10-30 pounds, get your tush off the computer chair and move, friend! Personally, if I was gonna diet (I consider it once in awhile and then change my mind because I'm not unhappy with my current weight) - I'd lean more on the side of Susan Powter's ideas.

1) Fat makes you fat. If you want to lose fat, stop eating fat. Or - drastically reduce it.

2) Sugars revert to fat in the body, so don't load up on sugars just because they're fat-free. Cut down.

3) Depriving yourself of "this" food will only result in your feeling the need to eat more of it - or give you cravings for "that" food. If you _NEED_ a candy bar, then eat one. Then move on to something more nutritious.

4) Pro-active vitamin combos: If eating foods with a lot of Vitamin A in it, make sure to offset it with food containing zinc. Vitamins B and C should be taken together (in the same meal).

5) Dairy in moderation, but if you are gonna eat it, don't eat the fake stuff. Eat the real dairy, with all its 3.5% fat. Whole milk, not skim, not "reduced carb." Real butter, not margarine. Margarine is loaded with artificial colorings, flavorings, and saturated fats. It is more UNhealthy than butter.

6) As much raw plants as you want. Raw veggies, raw fruits, raw garlic, raw mushrooms. The more you cook it, the less nutritious it is.

7) Light on red meats - but again, don't deprive yourself if you like meat. Just don't go nuts and scarf down a 1/2-pound cheeseburger. Try a 4-ounce steak instead.

8) Exercise! The only thing you need for this is your feet. Just walk. Every day. Build it up if you're out of practice - a block today, 2 blocks tomorrow, maintain 2 blocks for a few days - then go for a half-mile walk. Maintain THAT for a week or so, then try a mile. Walk every day. If it's raining, bring an umbrella. It's only water dood - you won't melt :)

9) Avoid fake foods. If you LIKE soy, eat it. But don't eat it as a substitute for "real" foods. Satisfy cravings with the actual substance your body is craving. Reason: Your body is trying to tell you it's low on something that the food it craves contains.

10) Take a multi-vitamin with iron every morning. This will help reduce cravings. Be SURE to eat -some- form of carbs before you take the vitamin, to help deliver the vitamins efficiently into the bloodstream. A single piece of bread is enough to make this work.

11) DRINK WATER! Filtered or tap or spring, unflavored, unadulterated, just plain water. Fill a 2-liter soda bottle with water in the morning. It should be empty before you go to bed.

[Edited on 5-18-2004 by Jazuela]

[AnticorRifling]

Eat what you want and die happy. Those extra five years you tack onto your life from eating bean sprouts and curds you'll just be in a diaper. You'll say to yourself wow those sprouts were good can someone change me please?

[ThisOtherKingdom]

I just heard on Howard Stern that they did a study comparing Atkins to a regular low-fat diet, and both lost about the same amount of weight over the same amount of time. However, eventually the Atkins plateaued, while the low fat diet still continued to show weight loss over time.

Not to mention the fact that Atkins diet is high in saturated fat and cholesterol since it's mainly based around meat, so it is not a healthy long-term diet.

[Wezas]

I knew if I went on an adkins or strict diet, I wouldn't stick with it. So I started eating healthier dinners and ate healthy on the weekends (except for a special occasion now and then). The lunches I have are for the most part very bad for me. Don Pablos, Hard Times Chili, Burgers, etc. But I'm not depriving myself of foods that I love. I also drink at least 2 liters of water every day. So far I've lost 20+. When I was starting to level off, that's when I started drinking the water, and the pounds kept coming off.

Water :thumbsup:
Soda :thumbsdown:

[Chyrain]

Okay okay...We've been through this before, and we'll go through this again...

My life is immersed in low-carb. I've read every book, I work closely with medical professionals who work with the Drs who "created" low-carb diets. I own low-carb stores and a distribution center. So...if you want to take advice from people who "hear" things or who have done the diets without really knowing how it works, fine. But if you would really like to know, please U2U me or IM me or something because 98% of this thread is laughable at best.

By the way, my own pesonal experience with Low-Carb. I do Atkins. I started eating 20g of carb a day, now I'm up to about 50-60g a day (just like the book told me would happen). My liver and kidneys function perfectly. I weigh 128 lbs. My blood sugars, cholesterol and any other test you could possible take on me are absolutely perfect and within normal range. My father, who after 3 back surgies gained like 200 lbs and is diabetic has decreased his diabetes meds by 75%, lost over 100 lbs and his kidneys and liver are functioning well, too! Imagine that...His choesterol dropped and he goes out and plays golf like 3 times a week now.

The issue is about doing it correctly. Those people who hear "dont eat carbs" and they stop eating carbs and never find out how to do it the right way, THEY are the ones who don't get good results. Period. End of the friggin' story.

It's like me hearing about how to scale a mountain and going to do so without any formal instruction or training...then I fall and break my neck and go on some sort of lame crusade about how climbing cliffs will ultimately break your neck. Well no shit, you dumbass.

[Anailea]

If you are interested in low-carb diets but Atkins and South Beach seem too strict, I suggest checking into CAD (carbohydrate addicts diet). Their books are thorough and discuss a lot of the things that people are talking about that are bad about restrictive diets.

[Ravenstorm]

There's been a lot of reports lately on low carb diets with doctors looking into them with a fine tooth comb. I've never heard anything in the last several months that they were in any way dangerous /if done properly/. That last art is the key, of course. Also, the weight comes off quicker than with other programs. But despite being a high fat diet, cholesterol and triglycerides have lowered. So health-wise, I have no mahor concern about them on a short term basis.

So. Cutting out junk food is not an option. I don't eat any to speak of. I already drink one gallon of water a day plus other liquids. Diet soda only as well as diet iced tea. And I've already lost 50 pounds by changing my diet to a more reasonable, common sense approach. And I've plateaued, hence the need for a diet.

Exercise is nearly impossible right now. I have a bad back that can't withstand much stress and is the main reason I need to lose the weight. While it's better, it's not up to much activity yet. So a quick weight loss regimen is definitely called for and then, like I said, I can worry about keeping it off later.

Raven

[Ilvane]

I'm going to give you my side of Atkins, because I hear so many people say good things about it. I was actually really really overweight. I'm still on the overweight side, and I started off on Atkins. The first couple of weeks I lost weight, and was feeling more energetic, after that..I started getting cranky, and really wanted carbs. I stayed on it for a bit, and lost about 25 pounds..yes I followed Atkins to the letter, even did a good job on it.

I have since went off of it..reason? I never had high cholesterol or high blood pressure. After a bit over 2 months on Atkins I had both high cholesterol and high blood pressure. I went off of it immediately.

Maybe it works for some people, but I've been doing the good old watch what you eat and exercise and have lost over 60 pounds. If you want to lose fast, and not for long term, then do one of those diets..otherwise, just watch what you eat.:)

-A

[Edited on 5-18-2004 by Ilvane]

[Parkbandit]

I've yet to see any scientific study that says Atkins is bad for you.. in fact, it's been quite the opposite.

Personally.. I think if you need to lose weight.. then do it. Get up and exercise... watch what you eat.. don't eat anything after 6PM... eat in moderation.

You do that and you'll lose 20 pounds a month minimum.

It's ALL about self control and will power.

[Ilvane]

I don't know what it does to other people, but I was pretty concerned that my blood pressure and cholesterol went up, and significantly after 2 months on it..I have never had problems with that before...and I had even began a more intense exercise program. It didn't make sense that they would go up.

Studies haven't been done on the long term-effects of diets like that, just short term.

:shrug: I just thought I'd share my experience.

-A

[ThisOtherKingdom]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
I've yet to see any scientific study that says Atkins is bad for you.. in fact, it's been quite the opposite.


http://www.atkinsdietalert.org/advisory.html

[Chyrain]

the fact is that someone says, "oh you can eat whatever you want on low-carb diets" and then people take that to mean "wow, i can eat 17 lbs of bacon a day and lose weight!"

absolutely wrong.

You can eat every kind of meat...but a serving size is 3 oz. That's about the size of the palm of your hand. If you're eating more than 1-2 servings of meat or protein per meal (especially the fatty kind) you're going to have issues. But no where have I heard or read that said you can eat all the fatty bacon you can possibly stomach and be healthy.

THAT is not a low-carb diet anyway.

Low carb diets aren't for everyone. Those who already have kidneys that don't work right shouldn't. Those who have gout shouldn't. Those who refuse to drink at least half of their body weight in oz of water a DAY shouldn't.


Also...the new report out about lowfat vs lowcarb. What probably wasn't spoken about was the fact that these people weren't monitored about what they were eating completely. It wasn't controlled food intake. I was listening to a report and out of the Drs mouth that did the study, she said it was possible that those on the low-carb diets were becoming lax on their carb intake and might have started to gain weight back because they weren't being as strict with themselves.

Let me tell you, low-carb is a lifestyle...not a diet. You can't expect to lose 30 lbs then reintroduce ben and jerry's into your life 3 times a day and make a BigMac your main source of protein again. You can't do that.

So if all you want to do is lose weight quickly, then go back to porking out...then by all means...have a slimfast.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I used to drink the slimfast for lunch, only problem was, they didn't fill me up so I had to chase it with a big mac and fries. No idea why that freaking diet didn't work for me.

[Latrinsorm]

Mmmmm... bacon....

[GSLeloo]

I'm on the first two weeks of South Beach and so far I haven't really noticed it being that hard. Yeah you can't eat any bread but you sort of just adjust and substitute it with other food like vegetables and protein and cheese...

^^^^

chin chin to your liver.

[GSLeloo]

Ummmm sorry I don't get it.

[Jazuela]

Go, red-meat! Let's hear it for BAD BREATH. You're eating dead cow, dood. It's gonna make you stink to high heaven. Sure, you'll be 20 pounds lighter, but what good will it do if no one can stand to be within 5 feet of you long enough to compliment you on your good looks?

And all that dairy/cheese? Heh. Can you say, FART CITY? Unless of course you're drinking raw goat's milk. Somehow I doubt that, though.

Carbs are how your body absorbs nutrients. Without them, you might have varying success with colesterol, kidney function, etc. etc...but you are depriving your body of necessary nutrients - especially vitamins A and C.

In addition - ketones are nature's poisons. They are what causes your body to go into a state of ketosis. It's how your body fights off poisons. Do you really want to intentionally poison yourself, just to lose weight? If so, go grab yourself some wormwood oil and go to town. Or thuja. Or hell - rip some thyme out of your garden and suck on nothing else for a few days. You'll feel like shit, but you'll lose weight, gua-run-tee!

Anything that is officially labeled "A Diet" is gonna have some negative affect on your body. If you wanna lose weight, eat healthy, move your body, and breathe oxygen. THAT IS ALL YOU NEED TO DO.

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Jazuela
Go, red-meat! Let's hear it for BAD BREATH. You're eating dead cow, dood.

And all that dairy/cheese? Heh. Can you say, FART CITY?

Sounds like a PETA freak

http://www.njdu.org/images/lighter%20side/PETA.JPG

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by Jazuela

THAT IS ALL YOU NEED TO DO.

Just like "Just stop." is all you need to do to quit smoking, right?

Raven

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Miss XOne thing Ive learnt is that there is NO overnight cure for weightloss, its a long term change of eating habbits for life thats needed, imho. :)
And a vast injection of exercise.

[Chyrain]

Originally posted by Jazuela


And all that dairy/cheese? Heh. Can you say, FART CITY? Unless of course you're drinking raw goat's milk. Somehow I doubt that, though.


Um, actually...I noticed that once I went on the low-carb diet, I couldn't muster a fart if I tried.

Sorry to disappoint you.

[ThisOtherKingdom]

Originally posted by Ravenstorm

Originally posted by Jazuela

THAT IS ALL YOU NEED TO DO.

Just like "Just stop." is all you need to do to quit smoking, right?

Raven

Which is why Atkins is so popular and such a ridiculous fad. Three of the scariest words in the english language are "balanced diet" and "exercise." Atkins is the lazy person's quick-fix diet. In ten years this diet will be laughed at on a VH1 special about the first decade of the 21st century as just another silly fad America was suckered into by people looking to make a quick buck.

[Edited on 5-18-2004 by ThisOtherKingdom]

[Chyrain]

Originally posted by ThisOtherKingdom


Which is why Atkins is so popular and such a ridiculous fad. Three of the scariest words in the english language are "eating healthy" and "exercise." Atkins is the lazy person's quick-fix diet. In ten years this diet will be laughed at on a VH1 special about the first decade of the 21st century as just another silly fad America was suckered into by people looking to make a quick buck.


Actually, no. if you're not exercising regulary, taking vitamins and watching your portion sizes, you are not doing Atkins or Low-Carb Diets correctly.

This is what I've been saying. The misconceptions of a low-carb lifestyle is HUGE. Just because you know John Dickhead who eats nothing but hamburger patties and cheese all day long doesn't mean you know someone who is "doing atkins"...or southbeach...or carbo addicts....or protein power...or the zone...

[Jazuela]

Ravenstorm, don't derail. You're not addicted to meat are you? Then STFU about smoking. It's irrelevent and TOTALLY off topic. If you wanna take a pot-shot at me do it in PM.

Chyrain, if you eat WELL, move your body, and breathe oxygen, you don't -have- to watch portion sizes or take vitamin supplements. You don't -have- to get your cholesterol and kidney function checked regularly. You don't -have- to do anything other than eat well, move your body, and breathe oxygen to have and maintain a healthy body weight.

People get overweight two ways: eating unhealthy foods/not exercising, and medical problems such as thyroid disease. If you eat HEALTHY - not "going on a diet" - and move your body, you will get fit, unless you have a medical problem causing the weight gain.

Diets of ANY kind won't do anything that eating healthy and moving can't do. The only thing a "diet" will do is get it done quicker, and at greater risk to -some- part of your physiology.

[Ravenstorm]

It's not derailing at all. Having done both, I can safely say that neither stopping smoking nor losing weight is as simple as 'just do it'.

Raven


[Edited on 5-18-2004 by Ravenstorm]

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by Chyrain
Actually, no. if you're not exercising regulary, taking vitamins and watching your portion sizes, you are not doing Atkins or Low-Carb Diets correctly.


You can eliminate "Atkins or Low-Carb Diets" from that sentence and it will be exactly what people have been suggesting all along.

You don't have to deprive yourself of anything to be healthier. Just smaller portions and more exercise.

[Wezas]

No denial, she must be a PETA freak.

[Ilvane]

Chyrain, I followed Atkins to the letter, and when I started, I never had a health problem in my life. I wound up with high cholesterol and high blood pressure, after following the guidlines, and exercising.

I'll still would caution against Atkins. I'll stick with the American heart association diet, or maybe Weight watchers.

-A

[Edited on 5-19-2004 by Ilvane]

[CrystalTears]

Diets affect different people in different ways. What ill-affected Ilvane it didn't do anything to Chyrain, so you can't say for certain that any diet is 100% good for you.

I hate the word diet. It has the word die in there. Bad joojoo.

[Betheny]

I didn't lose anything on Atkins except maybe 5 pounds, I'm losing more weight now that I"m just eating regular and walking more. You have to have a decent metabolism to do well on ATkins, and I also hear it doesn't work well for women.

I've thought about South Beach, but I'd rather just get exercise equipment or something and do it that way -- better for you anyway. Once I come up with the money to get some, anyway, ha ha.

[Miss X]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm
Mmmmm... bacon....

:yes:

[Jazuela]

Me, PETA? Good grief no. Unless you mean People for the Eating of Tasty Animals. Like - crisp pan-fried bacon (none of that stiff flat microwave crap), a rare-cooked cheeseburger smothered with cheddar cheese and sauteed mushrooms...

I don't eat much meat, mostly because most meat dishes aren't all that appealing to me. But yes, I am the quintessential ominvore.

JUST SAY NO TO AVOCADOS!

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Jazuela
a rare-cooked cheeseburger smothered with cheddar cheese and sauteed mushrooms...


ick, rare? mushrooms? I had more respect for you when I thought you were a herbavore.

[Chyrain]

I don't do low-carb because I need to lose weight anymore. I do low-carb (50-60g of carb a day which IS low compared to 300-400 that most people eat a day) because 1. I'm diabetic and control it solely with my diet, not drugs. 2. I've got Crohn's Disease and I was facing serious surgery on my intestines until I started to do low-carb and all of my pain and suffering from that stopped completely. I don't take drugs for THAT anymore.

The only reason I have any blood work tested is to prove to people that it's not going to make my kidneys explode. I have no doubts or worries. I eat more vegetables and fruit now than I ever did. I eat low-carb bread every day. I eat soy pasta and instead of white flour, I go whole grain or Almond Flour and Flaxseed. I don't cut anything out of my diet. The only thing I haven't really eaten in the last year is corn...but that's okay because I don't really even like it that much. I've even eaten like half of a baked potato when I was craving one.

I'd be willing to bet an insane amount of money that in 25 years, I'm still as healthy and happy.

but the diet isn't for everyone. i don't really give a shit if anyone does it or not. but don't tell me I'm going to be less healthy for it. Or my dad, whose doctor told him he was going to be dead within the year and couldn't hardly get out of his chair and is now out playing 18-27 holes of golf 3 times a week.

[Anailea]

Congratulations, Chyrain. Low-carb works well for controlling diabetes, and in fact, has gotten insulin dependent diabetics off of their insulin.

Good for your dad. It is so nice when we can keep our parents around when they decide to start taking care of themselves.

Low-carb works the best for me of anything. Everything else is high in carbs and eating carbs just makes me more hungry.

[Ilvane]

Now if you told me you were on the Zone or something, I would be much more impressed. Low carb in that form isn't bad, and it is good for controlling diabetes. Atkins on the other hand is high fat, high salt, and doesn't like you eating many fruits and limits certain vegetables, when they are good for you. Beta caratene in carrots is really good for you, as are some starches(such as corn), and the vitamins that are in these things are essential.

I'd rather do the natural nutrition and know that somewhere down the line my cholesterol wasn't going to sky rocket.

The Zone has lean fats and meat, as well as a lot of vegetables.

You don't have to get defensive, either because it may work for you, but there really haven't been any long term studies on the effects of those diets..and that for me is enough to make me nervous about them.:)

-A

[Edited on 5-19-2004 by Ilvane]

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Who says fruits are always good for you? Everything is about moderation. My doctor told me to stay away from banana's and grapes, because of the high sugar content.

I just think everyone should do what works for them. I had great success on Atkins, my Mom did not. We are diff people is all.

[Anailea]

Atkins has been around since the 70's. 30 years isn't long enough?

[Jazuela]

Atkin was also 80 pounds overweight and had heart disease when he fell through the ice and subsequently died.

If that isn't a clue, I don't know what is.

[Chyrain]

Originally posted by Jazuela
Atkin was also 80 pounds overweight and had heart disease when he fell through the ice and subsequently died.

If that isn't a clue, I don't know what is.


No, Atkins had a virus in his heart that had nothing to do with his diet AND when he went into the hospital, was at a perfectly healthy weight but being unconscious for weeks and retaining water from the medications he was on caused him to become vastly bloated and hence overweight when he died.

For goodness sakes, if you're going to start spouting facts, why don't you really figure out what you're talking about first?

[edit] here's the statement from his wife and Doctor's about his condition when he died.

Statements on Atkins' death
The widow of diet doctor Robert Atkins and the head of the Atkins Physicians Council released statements Tuesday on the doctor's death last spring. The full text of their statements follow.
Statement by Veronica Atkins on the illegal distribution of personal medical information regarding her late husband Dr. Robert C. Atkins

New York, NY, February 9, 2004—I have always assumed that my husband's personal medical history is private and of no concern or relevance to the media or general public. Prior to today, I have not seen any reason to share Dr. Atkins' private information with the public. I am sure that any one of you would be offended and perhaps even horrified to have complete strangers intrude into your personal family matters, especially with regard to something as intimate as your medical records or those of your loved one.

It has now become clear to me that if I don't speak out, unscrupulous individuals will continue to twist and pervert the truth in an attempt to destroy the reputation and great work of my late husband. These individuals have gone so far as to obtain my husband's personal and confidential medical information from the New York City Medical Examiner's office for distribution to news organizations in direct and knowing violation of federal law. Obviously such people will have no trouble picking and choosing bits and pieces of fact and supposition to mislead the world.

But here is the truth: my husband's medical records have been reviewed by knowledgeable doctors and his medical condition discussed with cardiac specialists. It is clear that Dr. Atkins developed a condition called cardiomyopathy approximately three years prior to his death. It is also true that when Robert developed cardiomyopathy his coronary arteries showed only minimal and clinically insignificant signs of coronary artery disease, consistent with what would be expected in a 69-year old man. Cardiomyopathy is a serious and progressive condition and was, I have been told, in Robert's case, caused by a viral infection. Though this condition significantly weakened his heart, its cause was clearly related to an infection and not his diet.

All of this was well documented and openly discussed by Robert himself on national television. Additionally, as Dr. Atkins explained on Larry King Live and other public appearances, he did have a witnessed cardiac arrest in April of 2002. All accounts and records related to this event, and the insight of his treating cardiologist, are consistent with conditions arising from his cardiomyopathy, rather than a lack of blood flow. While Robert did have some progression of his coronary artery disease in the last three years of his life including some new blockage of a secondary artery that was remedied during this admission, he did not have a heart attack.

There is no evidence to suggest otherwise and for any physician to suggest so would be irresponsible, unethical and represent nothing more than an attempt to tarnish the reputation of a man who dedicated his life to solving one of medicines greatest challenges — the obesity epidemic. Let me state emphatically that I have been assured by my husband's physicians that my husband's health problems late in life were completely unrelated to his diet or any diet.

It is also clear that my husband's death resulted from a serious head injury that occurred April 8th, 2003. Hospital records obviously and unequivocally detail the unfortunate clinical course that transpired following arrival of Emergency Medical Services through the entirety of hospitalization, confirming that after losing consciousness en route to the hospital, Robert's condition failed to improve despite emergency neurosurgical treatment for bleeding within his head. In life, Dr. Atkins was adamant about not wanting life support and when his wishes were honored, and ventilator life support was withdrawn on April 17th, he passed away as has been widely reported in the media.

But it has become clear to me that something as simple as the truth will be perverted and manipulated by dishonest individuals who will stop at nothing and will proceed without any regard for medical ethics or the previously private medical history of Dr. Atkins in an attempt not only to discredit my husband's work but to profit from his death. Work, I might add, that has been consistently and repeatedly vindicated by 18 independent scientific studies over these past three years. I now find myself in the uncomfortable position of having to relive his horrific accident and defend my late husband from people who would convince you that stolen and irrelevant bits and pieces of Dr. Atkins' medical history carry more validity than published scientifically controlled and peer reviewed research out of Harvard, Duke University, the American Heart Association and the National Institutes of Health.

It is for these reasons that I realized that I must put aside my grief and pain and speak out. Make no mistake about it, Dr. Atkins, at the end of life, was struggling with the effects of his cardiomyopathy and did not hide that fact. Despite repeated, often pathetic and now even illegal attempts by his most bizarre and extreme detractors to make the health of this 72 year old man THE central issue in the all important obesity debate raging in this country and around the world, it is not and never will be relevant. It is a sad and distracting sideshow, taking time away from an intelligent debate of the known science.

We should all ask, is caring about what someone else eats so important that some doctors are willing to betray their most basic of oaths, to protect a patient's dignity and confidentiality? It is time to forget the myths and urban legends perpetuated by extremists like those who acted unethically in disclosing my husband's records and pay more attention to the real issues and all available peer reviewed science.

I will do my utmost to put an end to this nonsense so that responsible physicians can focus on a debate rooted in fact and moderation and objectivity. We will not engage in espionage, tabloid journalism, or try to shout louder than these shameless individuals and I look forward to the day when Dr. Atkins' soul can rest in peace and I can grieve uninterrupted.


Statement by Stuart Trager, M.D., Chair, Atkins Physicians Council on February 10, 2004

Report on Dr. Atkins Weight at the time of his death

New York, NY, February 10, 2004—Today's Wall Street Journal ran a story on the health of Dr. Robert Atkins and grossly distorted and inaccurately reported information that Dr. Atkins was obese at the time of his death. In fact, up until the time he became comatose and lay in the hospital for two weeks. Dr. Atkins' average weight was actually 60 pounds less than reported in the Journal. The newspaper article was based on incomplete personal medical records that were illegally delivered to the newspaper in violation of federal law, coming from a known group of Vegan and animal rights extremists.

Dr. Atkins' weight was consistently and frequently documented in the years and months prior to his fall; as he was suffering from cardiomyopathy, his health was monitored closely. Due to water retention, this robust 6-foot plus man, who competitively played tennis frequently during the week, had a weight that varied between 180 and 195. During his coma, as he deteriorated and his major organs failed, fluid retention and bloating dramatically distorted his body and left him at 258 pounds at the time of his death, a documented weight gain of over 60 pounds. How and why the Journal reported that he was obese, remains the only unanswered question in this pathetic situation.

Any implication that Dr. Atkins was obese or fat prior to his coma, shows a blatant disregard or even worse, lack of understanding of the medical facts surrounding this case, or of the physiology of severe heart failure and the degree of fluid retention that occurred during this hospitalization. None of us would expect the physicians at PCRM to reveal this in light of their past and their current motivation ... but surely as physicians they understood that this was not obesity, I guess it just didn't support the point they cared to convey ... so they chose to ignore it?




[Edited on 5-19-2004 by Chyrain]

[Edited on 5-19-2004 by Chyrain]

[Jazuela]

And of course you do realize that they only -think- it was a virus, first of all - since the wife refused to allow an autopsy, there's no way to be sure if it was a virus or the diet.

Furthermore, viral cardiomytosis (I'm sure I spelled that wrong) often occurs when the immune system fails to work properly - and unhealthy diet is ONE very significant factor in an improperly functioning immune system. It is not the only factor - but it is clearly one of the more prevalent ones.

When someone says "a virus caused this" I have to ask - what caused the virus? Virii don't just randomly show up. Something leads the body to accept it into the system. Sometimes the immune system is working perfectly well, but the virus is just too strong. The virus that causes the viral version of cardiomyopathy doesn't have that kind of strength to enter a perfectly healthy body (there are a few different types of cardiomyopathy - some of them are genetic and have nothing to do with virii)

[AnticorRifling]

I heard a word by, I believe it was SHM, MODERATION. Extreme diets, eating a shit load of food. Cutting out all carbs, eating only meat.... That's all extreme crap. You can do almost anything in Moderation and be fine.

Besides fad diets are, imo, dumb. I don't need to read a book to tell me how to lose weight. I just need to stop eating the shit and do more cardio but I won't because I'd rather get bigger. I want to be massive and maybe one day I'll consider putting forth the energy to cutting up.

[The Cat In The Hat]

I lost 15 pounds in 2 weeks on Atkins. Should add it was my last 15 of the baby weight from having my daughter. Took me 2 years to lose that 15 pounds! Thanks Atkins!


Cat, Whos thankfully back to 125 pounds

Banana's give me heart burn

[Faent]

>>Just like "Just stop." is all you need to do to quit smoking, right? -Raven

Yes. That's what I did.

-Scott

[Anailea]

Originally posted by Faent
>>Just like "Just stop." is all you need to do to quit smoking, right? -Raven

Yes. That's what I did.

-Scott

Congratulations.

However, you are among the minority.

[Faent]

>>Just like "Just stop." is all you need to do to quit smoking, right? -Ravenstorm
>>Yes. That's what I did. -Scott
>>However, you are among the minority. -Ravenstorm

Members of the herd exercise very little control over the direction and content of their lives. They do what they do either because "they say" one should do it or they are "forced" to do it. People who lack the in principle ability to resist things they desire very badly are simply dangerous, out of control, and should be avoided.

-Scott

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Yeah, like members of the herd who start smoking... oh wait, thats your holier than thou self.