New rouge

[krigner2501]

Hi all, old player coming back after a loooong hiatus. I've done lots of research and, thanks to these forums, I think I've come up with a fun to play rouge who will be able to handle his own. I would like some of your advice on some smaller details if you don't mind, as I have seen conflicting ideas on some stuff.

The two main goals I am aiming for are Archery and Locksmith. I currently am planning 3x perception, 2.5x disarm/lockpick. I am not going the hiding/ambush route, because i found that to be laboriously boring, and i just couldn't seem to fit it into the plan and still have a decent lock/disarm train. Anyways, with my extra points, i wanted to eventually get to 10 ranks in Minor Spirit to get E-Wave, but that will cost me learning any arcane symbols or scroll reading.
Do you think it would be better/worth it for me to go 4 ranks in Minor Spirit and get arcane up to 15 ranks?
The other big thing is having all those ranks in spells kills my Redux, is it worth it? This also brings up armor, if i am not using Stalking/Amb, should I be looking at going full plate (thus no offensive spells)?

Lastly, i dont plan on going over 5 ranks in climb swim until I need them, I am lvl 10 now with 5 ranks in each, is that a good idea?


That was a lot of questions, but i appreciate your help in advance!

[Asha]

I love rouge

[krigner2501]

It makes my cheekbones look so sexy

[DrZaius]

In my opinion, archery is really tough early on. You rarely hit what you're aiming at, and fletching/ e-blading arrows is a pain in ass whichever you choose. I've heard it gets good around 40-50, but do you want to wait that long? That said, it does leave a lot of room for other training, so it's useful in that regard.

Of course, because I'm self-loathing, my rogue is obviously (open) ranged!

1.5x armor (to 30, then back off a bit)
2x ranged
1x CM (to 40, then stop)
2x Ambush
1x PT
2.5x Dodge
5 climb
2x disarm
2x picking
2x perception
10 AS (for scarabs)
6 HP (for society/spells)
404 (got it at level 19).

As far as your specific questions:
AS: you can plan to not train in it, up until you blow yourself up with a scarab for the 4th or 5th time. Then you'll figure out a way to work them in.
Armor: I think capped ranged rogues generally roll in MBP, and maybe lighter if they're casting e-wave a lot. I'm nowhere near cap, so I'll let them answer that instead.
Picking: Unfortunately, the east tower seems pretty dead these days; most people just use the town locksmith. If you just want to pick your own chests, 2x should be fine for a long, long time.

[krigner2501]

In my opinion, archery is really tough early on. You rarely hit what you're aiming at, and fletching/ e-blading arrows is a pain in ass whichever you choose. I've heard it gets good around 40-50, but do you want to wait that long? That said, it does leave a lot of room for other training, so it's useful in that regard.

I'm at 480 fletching skill right now...fletching alone almost got me all the way to 10 lol.




Of course, because I'm self-loathing, my rogue is obviously (open) ranged!

1.5x armor (to 30, then back off a bit)
2x ranged
1x CM (to 40, then stop)
2x Ambush
1x PT
2.5x Dodge
5 climb
2x disarm
2x picking
2x perception
10 AS (for scarabs)
6 HP (for society/spells)
404 (got it at level 19).


I didn't think ambush helped ranged AS anymore, i tried it out in Tsoran's skill sheet but AS didn't raise, am i wrong on that? For armor, when you say back off, are you skipping trains? Since you took some spells are you not worried about redux later on down the road? And why stop CM at 40?



As far as your specific questions:
AS: you can plan to not train in it, up until you blow yourself up with a scarab for the 4th or 5th time. Then you'll figure out a way to work them in.
Armor: I think capped ranged rogues generally roll in MBP, and maybe lighter if they're casting e-wave a lot. I'm nowhere near cap, so I'll let them answer that instead.
Picking: Unfortunately, the east tower seems pretty dead these days; most people just use the town locksmith. If you just want to pick your own chests, 2x should be fine for a long, long time.

Picking is more of a thing...technically i could do without it, i dont plan on making $$ with it...it's just fun to be able to pick your own boxes. Random question on MBP: when you have any armor that only covers torso, do you have to get greaves and a helm to protect the rest? I've never had a character that used more than doubles and I was always curious about that.


Thanks for your reply!

[DrZaius]

Answering your questions in reverse order...

MBP covers the chest in plate, scale on everything else.

the 40 CM are for the Cmans you'll want (I don't remember specifically, but my guess would be surge 5 combat mobility (whichever the one that stands you up after you fall down) 2).

The 2x ambush is because that's what I remember Gib telling me to do, and I consider him the guru on such subjects. He says 2x ambush, that's what I do.
More specifically, it adds to ranged AS. Read this thread, it's the cat's pyjamas: http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?t=49785&highlight=fletching+script

More bad news: 482 is halfway for crafting skills. Also, some people reccommend saving fletching/forging skills until after your 30 days since they're free experience. If your goal is to just stand in the open and fire without aiming (which is what my current plan is), you might do ok.

Finally, when I say 'back off', I mean I got to 30 ranks (by 19), then I'm going to stop training it until much later (after I get all the utility crap I want in the meantime), and I'll train it so it's closer to 1x by cap (I think MBP needs 80 ranks).

[Gizmo]

Open Archer, you'll wanna be in heavier armor.

CMAN Wise, if you know a mage, screw surge of strength. You will WANT Vanish like redoing yesterday's mishap one night stand with the ugly chick.

2x Ambush, 2x perception, 1x CM yadda yadda yadda

[DaCapn]

Do you mean to say that you don't want to go a sniping route with archery or that you don't want to hide/ambush with a melee weapon?

It's usually easier to go sword/board for the first 30-some levels. A sword/board locksmith is pretty cookiecutter and it's more than possible point-wise. As such, I would have advised to hold back on fletching until much later. Wait until you want to migrate a bunch of skill points, wait until you're caught in a crappy level, wait until you're just fed up with hunting/lockpicking, whatever. The first 10 levels of this game go by so fast anyway.

Going 3x perception isn't really worth it unless it's a post-cap goal (and really only for the CM defense). It isn't worth it for lockpicking and it's not particularly worth it for archery.*

Get 5-10 ranks AS for disarming scarabs ASAP. They're less necessary later on.*

If you're not swimming, don't take ranks in swimming.*

You're really asking about taking ranks in Minor Elemental. Read the KP article on Redux and it gives you an idea how much impact spell research training has.

You can keep lockpicking skills earlier on at 2x while you work on some initial skill investments. 2x + lores will allow you to pick your own boxes roughly from levels 5-70.*

The maneuvers you put CM points into will be very dependent upon your race/style. I'd definitely recommend combat mobility no matter what the build.*

(Points marked with * are discussed in the majority of threads about rogue training)


MBP covers the chest in plate, scale on everything else.

Chain everywhere else, not scale. And, being one to splits hairs, I'll clarify that you also mean torso coverage {chest, back, abdomen}.

[DrZaius]

Chain everywhere else, not scale. And, being one to splits hairs, I'll clarify that you also mean torso coverage {chest, back, abdomen}.

I stand corrected, and yes I did mean torso. Greaves can be used as a 'poor man's armor', meaning you can add them to effectively bring your armor up closer to what it would be if you had the next level up.

What I mean by this is, if you have MBP, you have plate coverage on your *torso*, and chain coverage everywhere else. If you add arm greaves, you've got plate coverage on your arms as well. This makes you effectively wearing augmented breastplate for RT and manuever purposes, however importantly your armor sub group (AsG) doesn't change, meaning you keep MBP AvDs (which obviously are worse). Confusing enough?

EDIT: I'll add the caveat that using greaves in this fashion is pretty much the least effective way of going about it; the only reason you would do so is because greaves are cheaper than armor, and/or they look cool.

[krigner2501]

Thanks guys for you great answers and help i really appreciate it!

One last thing...sorta off topic...when the yearly fixskills happens, does that allow you to change your Stats as well as your skills?

[Gizmo]

Thanks guys for you great answers and help i really appreciate it!

One last thing...sorta off topic...when the yearly fixskills happens, does that allow you to change your Stats as well as your skills?

No

[Rhovan]

No yearly fixing stats, but if you save your points and focus on getting them, it might only take a couple years to afford the potion.