NBA Finals

[Latrinsorm]

Who you GOT.

I was way off in my analysis of Dallas-OKC, but my feeling is that it was a question of nerves/decision-making rather than talent/composition. There's no one on the Heat roster that's going to pull a Westbrook. The obvious candidate is Wade, but he's showed over the season and playoffs that he can adjust to a lesser role when he's having an off night. Being able to guard Jason Kidd all night is a huge bonus after chasing Ray Allen and Derrick Rose around for weeks. All the main guys on the Heat have demonstrated coolness under pressure.

Dallas is a good defensive team, but they match up poorly and they're certainly inferior overall to Boston and Chicago. DeShawn Stevenson couldn't guard LeBron when he was on the Wizards, and LeBron is a much more complete player with the Heat. Shawn Marion apparently found the fountain of youth, but for how long? Jason Terry is in the Kyle Korver position - you need to bring him in for offense, but you need to keep him out for defense. Barea is good, but he's not Rose good, and the Heat contained Rose pretty well.

AND the Heat have homecourt, although both teams were pretty indistinguishable home/away.

Can't wait for Tuesday!! Not totally sure why the game isn't starting until 9 o' clock, though.

[Paradii]

I am going to go with Dallas in 6. I won't be watching since I don't have electricity, but I will listen to the results on AM radio!!!

[Axhinde]

Heat in 6. They'll win first two at home, and at least one of three on the road. Then close out at home. Never underestimate Pat Riley's ability to motivate, and Spo has shown his ability to game-plan.

[Ardwen]

Pretty sure I picked Dallas to get there in one of the other threads here, course I also picked Boston hah, Dallas is 6, but I do also hate Lebron

[Latrinsorm]

That's one!

Joel Anthony and Mike Bibby each scored 0 points. When was the last time a team won a game in the NBA Finals with two starters scoring 0 points?

It turns out that a starter finishing with 0 points is a lot more common than I thought it would be. Over the last 10 years:

2007 Game 1 - Oberto (Spurs)
2006 Game 1 - Diop (Mavs)
2006 Game 2 - Griffin (Mavs)
2005 Game 1 - Bowen (Spurs)
2005 Game 7 - Mohammed (Spurs)
2003 Game 3 - Bowen (Spurs)
2003 Game 4 - Collins (Nets)

Even teams that lost didn't have two starters finish with 0s. I'll keep looking, but I have a feeling it's unprecedented in the shot clock era.

[Rimalon]

I would have voted for Heat in 7... I think I told Drew that the other night. WITNESS.

Fun game tonight. Going to be an interesting finals. Both offenses can play way better than they did tonight.

Bron and Wade rebounding like they did was the key to Game 1, though. Beasts.

[Latrinsorm]

The boxscores on basketball-reference only go back to 1991, no hits. I guess it's up to ELIAS now.

[DoctorUnne]

That game reminded me a lot of the Celtics/Heat series. I think as a team Dallas is better overall and is capable of outplaying the Heat over long stretches, but when the game is close in the fourth quarter and both defenses are stifling and no one is getting easy shots, it comes down to which team has players that can make more incredible shots/plays. LeBron and Wade are just more talented and athletic than everyone else.

I still think it will be a close series though. Not that Miami played amazingly well, but Dallas missed a lot of open perimeter shots that they had been hitting against the Lakers and Thunder, and it was in Miami.

I'll say Miami in 6

[DoctorUnne]

LeChoke strikes again

[Ardwen]

wade sitting on the floor after that last shot looking for a foul is such a perfect ending for a game in this years playoffs

[Drew]

wade sitting on the floor after that last shot looking for a foul is such a perfect ending for a game in this years playoffs

I guess getting gouged in the eye isn't a good reason to look for a call.

[Latrinsorm]

I'm feeling good about my prediction. The Heat had an uncharacteristically bad night with free throws - takes and makes. They didn't run an offense over what, the last 6 minutes of the game. Marion had a great night. All that and it still came down to Dirk making a three and scoring in isolation with seconds remaining.

Going forward, Terry is looking like a non-factor - barely there on offense, a train wreck on defense. Peja's in the same boat. Haywood is hurt. Nobody on Miami will be rattled being in Dallas. Win two of three there, win game 6 at home.

[Drew]

Win two of three there, win game 6 at home.

Rimalon and I just placed a wager on this. I say the Heat take at least 2 in Dallas.

[Rimalon]

Rimalon and I just placed a wager on this. I say the Heat take at least 2 in Dallas.

NOT A CHANCE, GOOD SIR. WE SHALL SEE.

My Heat in 7 call is holding up, though!

[Drew]

I'm less upset today than I was last night. I still think the Heat take this in 6. Dallas looks bad. Unless something big changes when they play at home the only way they can keep up with the Heat is epic shooting. They brought out a gimmick defense that worked but won't work again. Combine that with a really good shooting tear was the only way they could win and that relied on some improbable Dirk heroics. I'm definitely guilty of homerism but I still feel sanguine about the Heat winning it all.

[Thickbeard]

I'm less upset today than I was last night. I still think the Heat take this in 6. Dallas looks bad. Unless something big changes when they play at home the only way they can keep up with the Heat is epic shooting. They brought out a gimmick defense that worked but won't work again. Combine that with a really good shooting tear was the only way they could win and that relied on some improbable Dirk heroics. I'm definitely guilty of homerism but I still feel sanguine about the Heat winning it all.

I'm from Cleveland (Yes it sucks). Go Mavs! WoooHooo!:club:

[Drew]

I'll give you a pass on using emoticons AND being a Cleveland fan AND quoting yourself quoting a movie since that movie is American Psycho.

[Thickbeard]

I'll give you a pass on using emoticons AND being a Cleveland fan AND quoting yourself quoting a movie since that movie is American Psycho.

Thanks buddy, you have good taste in movies.

[Latrinsorm]

Worst officiating of the playoffs?

Peja is a TRAIN WRECK. Stop the fight, Carlisle, show some humanity.

My favorite part of the boxscore: Brian Cardinal, 0 MIN. He spent more time taking off his warmups then he did on the court.

Has no one on the Miami training staff heard of an ice pack? I can't believe Bosh had his best shooting of the Finals with that eye.

.

Best player in the series is Dirk, BUT. There was a series in the first half where it seemed like Wade and LeBron were trading unstoppable drives to the basket. How can any one person compete with that?

I didn't think there was any chance of this, but Miami's bench is dramatically outplaying Dallas' bench. The only Mav backup giving them any net contribution is Barea, and him only barely.

It really feels like Miami is just so superior in talent and athleticism that their (infuriating) lapses in concentration just aren't long enough for Dallas to expect wins, especially when Dallas is also devolving into very sloppy play at times - how many wide open 3s does Chalmers have to make? The one where literally every Dallas player stood dumbly in the paint watching him square up was particularly excruciating. Marion's coming back to earth offensively. Terry is still a non-factor. Dirk had 34 points on 21 shots, was 3 of 5 from 3, played 42 minutes, and the Mavs lost!! Not only that, the Mavs were +12 for his 42 minutes, which means they were -14 for the other 6!!!!

I mean, come on. Give Dirk the MVP and a good therapist.

[Axhinde]

I agree with that being the worst officiating in the playoffs. I know it's the finals and they're letting them play but seriously? Players are blatanty getting whacked and the way to the basket and yet no foul. Meanwhile Miami had how many loose ball fouls where even the commentators didn't see anything? And commentators are known for making shit up just for good tv.

[Ardwen]

Clearly they need to play Dirk all 48, all around great close series which is what the nba wants. I expect the Mavs to win the next 2 at hom and it to go 7 with the officials help, most games it seems you could go grab the refs from the Y and have a better and moire fair game called.

[prance1520]

Agreed, that officiating crew shouldn't be allowed to call another game this year. They were really really bad.

[Rimalon]

My palms are getting sweaty, Drew.

SWEATY INDEED!

Edit: LeBron! WHERE YOU AT SON! COME BACK TO US!

[DoctorUnne]

Dirk had 34 points on 21 shots, was 3 of 5 from 3, played 42 minutes, and the Mavs lost!!

I don't like the mean reversion arguments unless every single important player on the team got extremely lucky or unlucky. Too many variables involved. Tonight Dirk shot 6 for 19 and they won.

All four games have been extremely close. Fitting that it's 2-2. I do feel like Miami is much more talented (Wade has been absurd) but Dallas focuses and executes better. Can't understate the veteran leadership.

[Danical]

As someone that doesn't care who wins, I'm just happy the games have been intense (i.e., close and/or many lead changes).

[Keller]

Can't understate the veteran leadership.

Don't sleep on Juwaun.

[Drew]

Don't sleep on Juwaun.

He leads the league in fire in his eyes.

[Sean]

Can someone explain to me why Joel Anthony gets so many minutes?

[NocturnalRob]

Can someone explain to me why Joel Anthony gets so many minutes?
The only thing that possibly comes to mind is rebounds and physical presence, but I understand your point. He's getting 10-15 minutes/game, right?

eta: Holy shit, he played 28 minutes last night?! wtf?

[Latrinsorm]

He's the only interior shot-blocker on the team. This isn't as important considering Dwyane Wade has a 19 foot vertical leap and will drink up an opposing big man's milkshake at the slightest provocation, but it's still important. He's also by far the nimblest of the Heat big men (Big Cat notwithstanding), and since their defense is predicated on guys flying around like maniacs, that's very important.

Of course, he is not a gifted offensive player. The Heat have been employing a pretty reliable strategy for that though - don't pass him the ball unless he is within arm's length of the basket, and even then only under duress. There was an unfortunate play yesterday where I think Bibby threw him the ball at the elbow with the shot clock expiring, and he looked like he had never even heard the word "basketball" before, but those events are rare.

Just go down the roster - would you rather have Z, Magloire, or Dampier on the court over Anthony? The Haslem/Bosh/James lineup works, but aside from James those guys have to sit down some time.

[Drew]

I'm going to employ a regression towards the mean argument here. In 90 playoff games Lebron has never scored less than 15. In fact he hadn't scored below that in over 500 games. The Heat shot 2-14 from 3 point land, their worst performance of the season. And it was still a very close game that they could have won without what (I'm assuming) is a playoff high number of turnovers in a quarter. I expect them to take game 5 (and win my bet with Rimalon), they are due for a game when all three players are hitting and when that happens I don't see Dallas ever stopping them.

[Atlanteax]

Seems like quite a bit of sports commentators are comparing James's Game-4 performance to his performance in Game-5 against Boston last year, when he basically just.... surrendered.

If he does not get his act together, Dallas ought to handily win the next two games, assuming Dirk gets healthy again.

[DoctorUnne]

Watch out for The Custodian

[Latrinsorm]

Custodian and Z - best goofy-looking bald white guy fight of all time? We can only hope.

[Keller]

Seems like quite a bit of sports commentators are comparing James's Game-4 performance to his performance in Game-5 against Boston last year, when he basically just.... surrendered.

If he does not get his act together, Dallas ought to handily win the next two games, assuming Dirk gets healthy again.

I am reminded again why I have forums I go to for sports, and forums I go to for text-based fantasy role playing games.

[DoctorUnne]

The Custodian, MVP of the Finals for injuring Wade? I hope he's fine, that would be unfortunate for Dallas to win that way.

[Atlanteax]

Okay, so I guess Keller doesn't read ESPN at all then.

Anyhow, Lebron played more engaged tonight ... and Dirk, clearly back to full health, posted a very strong game.

At the end there, I thought Shawn Marion blew a golden opportunity to seal the game when he went at the basket too fast, but Jason Kidd did the deed with the three the following possession.

Looking forward to seeing what the "pundits" say about game 5 and their assessment on how game 6 (and 7) will play out.

[Asrial]

The Custodian, MVP of the Finals for injuring Wade? I hope he's fine, that would be unfortunate for Dallas to win that way.I didn't get to tune in until well after that play...

Does it have the feeling of being intentional or just the way things happened during a standard play?

[Androidpk]

Go Dallas!

[Latrinsorm]

I didn't get to tune in until well after that play...

Does it have the feeling of being intentional or just the way things happened during a standard play?Just the way things happened. He didn't go after Wade 1/8th as hard as Howard went after Stevenson, but we can all agree that Stevenson probably had it coming.

I have no idea what's going to happen next.

[Ardwen]

The heat are going to lose and whine like babies for 4 months

[AquiziTC]

The heat are going to lose and whine like babies for 4 months

And most of America is going to relish in it.

[Androidpk]

Cleveland is going to laugh.

[Ardwen]

If they had just signed liek normal people for the most part outside of Ohio could have cared less, making a spectacle of themselves was pretty silly

[DoctorUnne]

I'm happy only because it keeps the door open for an epic conclusion to the series. If Miami had won I think the Mavs would have been snuffed out relatively easily in six. Now this is looking a lot like last year's finals (right down to the exact game-by-game results), when Boston took a 3-2 lead at home only to piss away game 6 because they knew they had two chances to close out. I really hope Dallas plays with the same urgency in game 6 that they have been the last few games, because otherwise Miami is going to blow them out.

I'm rooting for Dallas not because I hate Miami but because Dirk deserves a ring, especially after what happened in 2006. Plus I think it's better when a championship team has to suffer a heartbreak or two before finally winning it all. With Boston/LA on the decline, Orlando going nowhere and Chicago showing that it doesn't have enough beyond Rose, I definitely see titles in Miami's future. Dallas on the other hand not so much.

On the plus side for Miami, you knew Dallas was going to have a game at some point where they were unconscious from three and hopefully this was that one time.

[Rimalon]

At what point, though, does the "x will never happen again" argument cease to be a worthy excuse for the Heat losing?

In Game 2, it was "an epic collapse like that will never happen again".

In Game 4, it was "LeBron will never have a game as bad as that again."

In Game 5, it was "Dallas will never shoot like that from 3 again."

I offer, perhaps, that these events are not random happenings. The Heat are most certainly influencing these results, and for them to think otherwise could come back to haunt them.

Both Barea and Terry have been MIA in this series until tonight(Terry did show flashes in Game 4). They were shooting terribly, now they're shooting well and in rhythm. Shooters regress or rise up to their normal shooting percentages, and they were clearly due for a couple of good shooting nights. If they can keep it up for another game or two, things could get interesting.

I'd be really curious to see this series if Caron Butler were healthy. He's eating up a chunk of their salary cap and is most definitely that second scorer they need. His presence allows Terry to truly slot into the third scorer/energy guy role that he excels at. BUT!

Barea is the key to the rest of this series, filling that second scorer role (especially as he's been inserted into the starting lineup). As he goes, go the Mavs.

I still like Heat in 7, though! I called it early!

[Rimalon]

Also:


Stephen A. Smith was on ESPN 2's Mike & Mike in the morning today to drop some cryptic hints about what may be eating LeBron's grapes. Via SportsGrid:

This morning, Smith said that he's "[heard] things" through the "grapevine" of a "personal nature," and it may or may not involve, "somebody other than the player," and it may or may not "have a profound effect on the player," and it has nothing to do with "the game of basketball."

What could Smith be talking about? The internet seems to know. Twitter is rife with rumors that LeBron's longtime girlfriend Savannah Brinson is having an affair with the Washington Wizard's Rashard Lewis.

Stephen may have ignited interest in the rumor, but Twackle tracks the source of the rumor back to a Houston, Texas-area hip hop radio station:

"I have a very reliable source who clubs and drinks with all of the athletes that come through Orlando. He was all over the Tiger Woods issue and knew what all happened with Tiger prior to it being released publicly. My buddy has a place in Orlando, Lake Nona to be exact, and he lives among some athletes that live there in Orlando. Needless to say he golfs, drinks, and parties with some of the best people in central Florida. So when word got to him while at the bar last night, he called me. Word got out while drinking with friends, that Rashard Lewis slept with LeBron's girl while visiting South Beach."

lolwut. So random it has to be true, yeah?

NOW WE KNOW WHY LEBRON HAS GONE MISSING.

RASHARD LEWIS FINALS MVP.

[Parkbandit]

James, playing in (MIA) is hilarious.

[Keller]

Also:



lolwut. So random it has to be true, yeah?

NOW WE KNOW WHY LEBRON HAS GONE MISSING.

RASHARD LEWIS FINALS MVP.

I already posted this yesterday. Minus the SAS jibber jabber

[Latrinsorm]

I'd be really curious to see this series if Caron Butler were healthy. He's eating up a chunk of their salary cap and is most definitely that second scorer they need. His presence allows Terry to truly slot into the third scorer/energy guy role that he excels at. BUT!I think the reason people have very rarely mentioned Butler is because Marion is a million times better suited to defend LeBron and has been playing shockingly well offensively. I feel like Butler would be joining Stevenson and Z in the "starters who ended up benched" camp.

I haven't seen a lot of Terry, but it seems to me like his "energy" plays end up being stupid fouls on the defensive end and terrible percentage shots on the offensive end, while he ignores actual energy plays like chasing guys around on defense, blocking out, etc. He's certainly a scorer, no question, but I don't remember a single play where I thought "Man, Terry is just outworking Heat Player X".
Shooters regress or rise up to their normal shooting percentages, and they were clearly due for a couple of good shooting nights.No more than LeBron is due for a 40/8/11 night. We shall see what we shall see.
I already posted this yesterday. Minus the SAS jibber jabberQUITE FRANKLY, I THINK THAT WAS AN UNWARRANTED COMMENT.

[Rimalon]

I haven't seen a lot of Terry, but it seems to me like his "energy" plays end up being stupid fouls on the defensive end and terrible percentage shots on the offensive end, while he ignores actual energy plays like chasing guys around on defense, blocking out, etc. He's certainly a scorer, no question, but I don't remember a single play where I thought "Man, Terry is just outworking Heat Player X".

I agree... but I think "energy guy" can be defined a few different ways. Andrei Kirilenko or Zaza Pachulia are the kind of energy guys you define... the defensive hustling kind.

But Terry injects energy in another way, I feel, just by making shots and being that guy Dirk can kick it out to and have confidence in. He's a savvy vet who brings energy to his team when he gets in the game.

Your concerns about Butler's defense are valid, but you may be slightly underestimating his skill at scoring the rock! Peja played big minutes in the OKC series... and they could most def use someone to play those minutes now; Butler would gobble that floor time up and make them a way more efficient offensive team.

IMO!

[Androidpk]

Dallas FTW.

[Ardwen]

go Mavs, so much for the Lebron dream team

[AquiziTC]

Take that Lebron..

I feel sorry for Wade, who is usually a class act, but I think "LBJ" rubbed off on him a bit, as I haven't liked his attitude much this series.

[Parkbandit]

I'm happy for Nowitzki and Kidd.

[Asrial]

I am going to go with Dallas in 6. I won't be watching since I don't have electricity, but I will listen to the results on AM radio!!!Winnah!

w00t!

[Warriorbird]

I'm happy for Nowitzki and Kidd.

Me too. James should've stayed in Cleveland.

[Asrial]

Me too. James should've stayed in Cleveland.I have no problem with James switching teams. I have a problem with the song and dance he did.

I also have a problem with them mocking Dirk before game 5.. but.. it's cool, I'll let them have their moment since Dirk's taking the ring ;)

[Parkbandit]

I have no problem with James switching teams. I have a problem with the song and dance he did.

I also have a problem with them mocking Dirk before game 5.. but.. it's cool, I'll let them have their moment since Dirk's taking the ring ;)

Yea, that was pretty stupid... James making fun of a clutch warrior who was feeling like shit... but still played like an all star.

James (M.I.A.) has been spot on this series.

[Androidpk]

Yea, that was pretty stupid... James making fun of a clutch warrior who was feeling like shit... but still played like an all star.

James (M.I.A.) has been spot on this series.

No one has ever accused Lebron of having any class.

[Latrinsorm]

Nice job Dallas.

See you next year. :)

[Atlanteax]

Take that Lebron..

I feel sorry for Wade, who is usually a class act, but I think "LBJ" rubbed off on him a bit, as I haven't liked his attitude much this series.

I second this.

In the meantime, Dallas well-deserved to win the championship this year.

Grats to Dirk and Kidd for finally winning a ring.

[Drew]

The worst part of this (and I'm throughly depressed about all of it) is I've bided my time all year and listened to all the smack talk and tried to show restraint from all that I felt was bullshit, certain that in the end I would be vindicated and able to unleash an unholy stream of "I told you sos" and Lex Luthor-esque "WRONNNGS" to all the quotes throughout the year and instead I just feel shitty and used up like when I was hooking on Fifth.

[Drew]

For the record Dallas played like a boss and deserved to win.

[Keller]

I don't get how Lebron is classless?

With the exception of The Decision, can someone cite examples of him lacking class?

[Drew]

Dan Gilbert is an example of a person who lacks class.

[Androidpk]

I don't get how Lebron is classless?

With the exception of The Decision, can someone cite examples of him lacking class?

Making fun of Dirk for being sick.

[Keller]

Making fun of Dirk for being sick.

Can you explain what happened?

[Androidpk]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0r4ERhtz3uI

[Keller]

Damn, I didn't have a clue you were a sports anchor in Dallas.

That's pretty cool.

[Drakefang]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0r4ERhtz3uI

Having listened to all the sports radio the day after this, I am actually amused that this created such a HUGE stir. WTF, really? That was almost nothing. It was more light hearted than mean spirited. They were goofing off. I am not a Lebron apologist nor a Wade admirer, but the media really spent a lot of time blowing their actions out of proportion. This was so fucking overblown as to be laughable.

I didn't watch game 6, but caught Sportscenter this morning. Dirk deserves more than the MVP for the playoffs, but for like the last five plus years for playing in Dallas. Not only has he seemed underrated but he's single handedly kept that franchise in the playoffs and competitive (from the perspective of one who doesn't watch the NBA much). Dirk is a stud.

I think it's a fair question to ask WTF happened to Lebron between the two series, but chances are it was all about Dallas' desire and better defense than James' lack of talent/distraction. James did have a triple double in Game 5, a game in which Wade's performance dropped and stayed down in Game 6.

Chris Bosh was the most consistent performer on the Heat, at least during their 3 straight losses.

[Ardwen]

Mocking someone that is outhustling and outperforming you sure makes you seem like a very large ass though, and damned if Lebron's conference afterwards make him seem like a very small person anyway.

[Keller]

Mocking someone that is outhustling and outperforming you sure makes you seem like a very large ass though, and damned if Lebron's conference afterwards make him seem like a very small person anyway.

The one where he said that people need to focus on their own lives?

Seriously? A small person?

You have hordes of people GLEEFUL over a single man not winning a championship, and you are calling that man a "very small person"?

You're out of touch with reality.

[Keller]

Having listened to all the sports radio the day after this, I am actually amused that this created such a HUGE stir. WTF, really? That was almost nothing. It was more light hearted than mean spirited. They were goofing off. I am not a Lebron apologist nor a Wade admirer, but the media really spent a lot of time blowing their actions out of proportion. This was so fucking overblown as to be laughable.

Yup.

[prance1520]

The whole mocking Dirk about being sick is ridiculous and shows you how the media controls how big the stories are. I got over being made fun of in like 3rd grade, I bet Dirk has too. Making fun of people is part of life, and the only reason internet forums are still around...

I wanted the heat to win, but since they didn't, I can say I'm genuinely happy Dirk got his. He's an all-time great, and I'm glad he's one less player I have to hear about not being 'great' because they didn't have a championship in a damn TEAM sport.

[Bobmuhthol]

I don't get how Lebron is classless?

With the exception of The Decision, can someone cite examples of him lacking class?

You need more than The Decision?

[Atlanteax]

Is Keller a Lebron homer or something?

[Bobmuhthol]

This is me making a genetics argument and linking Lebron's notoriously classless mother with her classless son. QED.

[Keller]

Is Keller a Lebron homer or something?

Hardly.

The Decisions was a poor . . . decision. But he's not Ron Artest, Delonte West, Gilbert Arenas, Allen Iverson, or Kobe Bryant. Those jerk-offs are classless. Lebron has shown poor judgment, but by all accounts he is a stand-up young man on and off the court.

And those are only basketball players, and only basketball players I thought of off the top of my head.

I could get into the Tiki Barber's of football, or the Barry Bonds's of baseball.

But, by all means, if you feel the need for an Olberman-esque moment to call Lebron the MOST CLASSLESS PLAYER IN BASSSSSSKETBALLLL! -- well, then do it, I guess.

[Androidpk]

"Just be careful when shipping the Miami Heat champs T-shirts to the poor in Guatemala," NBA.com quoted Avon, Ohio's, Nathan Obral as saying. "They could be a choking hazard."

[Bobmuhthol]

But he's not Ron Artest, Delonte West, Gilbert Arenas, Allen Iverson, or Kobe Bryant.

You got that right.

[Parkbandit]

I'm still laughing at his 4th quarter stats. The King? Yea.... maybe not.

[Rinualdo]

This cracked me up, particularly the first video
http://www.cleveland.com/ohio-sports-blog/index.ssf/2011/06/lebron_james_not_2_not_3_not_4.html

[Latrinsorm]

The weirdest part of the narrative to me is how Dallas is being lauded for playing team ball, or "the right kind" of basketball when Dirk and Terry combined for 43 shots and 3 assists. I get how peoples' personal dislike for LeBron James causes them to forget anything good he did that happened more than a week ago, but the way Dallas is being viewed is inexplicable to me.

[NocturnalRob]

Dan Gilbert is an example of a person who lacks class.
^ this

[LMingrone]

I might be the only person that thinks LeBron doesn't even care about winning a championship. His words last night made that clear. What a tool shed. He loves the $, and he's already won that.

Supernintendo outplayed him. oO?

[Keller]

I might be the only person that thinks LeBron doesn't even care about winning a championship. His words last night made that clear. What a tool shed. He loves the $, and he's already won that.

Supernintendo outplayed him. oO?

http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lf6r0v46oM1qbvihuo1_500.gif

[Latrinsorm]

I might be the only person that thinks LeBron doesn't even care about winning a championship. His words last night made that clear. What a tool shed. He loves the $, and he's already won that.

Supernintendo outplayed him. oO?He gave up money to come Miami.

What he said was that he cares more about spending time with his family than what a bunch of haters (my wording) think about him. This is the reaction of a mature, self-actualized person. It's hard for a fanatic to hear that you're just not that important to him, because it makes your hatred that much more cartoonish, but it's the truth.

[Androidpk]

Lebron is not a mature person.

[Latrinsorm]

Like I said before, I understand how personal dislike can cloud the rational mind. Notice how you did not question my assessment of the reaction, but rather offered an assessment of the person. Is the cigar only a cigar?

Putting that aside, can you elaborate on your metric for establishing whether a person is mature? I feel it would be a useful exercise.

[Androidpk]

Like I said before, I understand how personal dislike can cloud the rational mind. Notice how you did not question my assessment of the reaction, but rather offered an assessment of the person. Is the cigar only a cigar?

Putting that aside, can you elaborate on your metric for establishing whether a person is mature? I feel it would be a useful exercise.

Oh please, get off his dick already. Maybe you should put your blind love of him aside for a moment and take a look at his actions. The guy is a pretentious self-absorbed ass clown.

[Parkbandit]

"All the people that were rooting on me to fail, at the end of the day they have to wake up tomorrow and have the same life that they had before they woke up today. They have the same personal problems they had today. I'm going to continue to live the way I want to live and continue to do the things that I want to do with me and my family and be happy with that. So they can get a few days or a few months or whatever the case may be on being happy about not only myself, but the Miami Heat not accomplishing their goal. But they got to get back to the real world at some point." -LeBron James

Let's just agree, this statement wasn't the most mature statements from someone losing the Finals. He has a history of doing immature things like this... remember 2009? when the Cavs were bumped out of the playoffs by the Heat? LeBron decided to just run off the court without congratulating anyone on the Heat... and later he said something like he's not good at congratulating people after losing.

He's a bitch.. and I'm STILL laughing at his disappearing act in the 4th period.

[Keller]

Lebron is not a mature person.

.....


It's hard for a fanatic to hear that you're just not that important to him, because it makes your hatred that much more cartoonish, but it's the truth.

[Keller]

Oh please, get off his dick already. Maybe you should put your blind love of him aside for a moment and take a look at his actions. The guy is a pretentious self-absorbed ass clown.

There are plenty of athletes that fit that description, unfortunately LBJ is not one of them.

I understand you need to manufacture a reason to dislike him to justify your unnatural hated, but you're going to have to try harder.

[Androidpk]

There are plenty of athletes that fit that description, unfortunately LBJ is not one of them.

I understand you need to manufacture a reason to dislike him to justify your unnatural hated, but you're going to have to try harder.


Unnatural hatred? You're the one that's trying too hard.

[Keller]

"All the people that were rooting on me to fail, at the end of the day they have to wake up tomorrow and have the same life that they had before they woke up today. They have the same personal problems they had today. I'm going to continue to live the way I want to live and continue to do the things that I want to do with me and my family and be happy with that. So they can get a few days or a few months or whatever the case may be on being happy about not only myself, but the Miami Heat not accomplishing their goal. But they got to get back to the real world at some point." -LeBron James

Let's just agree, this statement wasn't the most mature statements from someone losing the Finals. He has a history of doing immature things like this... remember 2009? when the Cavs were bumped out of the playoffs by the Heat? LeBron decided to just run off the court without congratulating anyone on the Heat... and later he said something like he's not good at congratulating people after losing.

He's a bitch.. and I'm STILL laughing at his disappearing act in the 4th period.

I don't agree at all that the statement is immature.

What should he have said when asked about the people that wanted him to fail?

"Fuck those faggots"?

No, he said, "At the end of the day, I'm going to continue being happy with my decision to live down here in Miami and they're going to have to get back to their own lives instead of finding happiness in our loss."

Feel free to explain why that is immature.

[Keller]

Unnatural hatred? You're the one that's trying too hard.

I'm not trying at all.

I've not manufactured reasons why LBJ is classless or immature in this thread.

Again, there are athletes that are classless and immature. So it's a joke to mention LBJ in the same sentence with them.

Is he a clutch basketball player? Absolutely not. I think that is clear. PB is correct to laugh at that. The media hyped him to be the next coming of MJ, and he is obviously not.

[Androidpk]

I've not manufactured reasons why LBJ is classless or immature in this thread.


No one has.

[Keller]

No one has.

Two clearly manufactured reasons are (i) he wants $ more than a championship and (ii) stretching his statement from last night into an insult to the fans that wanted him to fail.

I'm not drinking the ESPN kool-aid, sorry.

[Drakefang]

Yeah, ESPN does tend to manufacture roughly half their stories by making something out of nothing.

[Keller]

Yeah, ESPN does tend to manufacture roughly half their stories by making something out of nothing.

They have to fill airtime, and LBJ hate sells these days.

[Thickbeard]

Lebron has actually created "The New Decision" with ESPN after losing to the Mavs, and I must admit that I am surprised with the direction he has chosen to take.

http://youtu.be/9NHRD10DmCc

[Latrinsorm]

Oh please, get off his dick already. Maybe you should put your blind love of him aside for a moment and take a look at his actions. The guy is a pretentious self-absorbed ass clown.I have some experience with the pretentious, the self-absorbed, and ass clowns. I don't find LeBron James to fit any of those bills. If anything, he's not self-absorbed enough to be what people want him to be. You think Jason Terry has ever worried about whether he should pass instead of shooting? Kobe? We all saw Kobe throw brilliant passes in the Shaq days, it's only his mindset that keeps him from having (nearly) as many assists as LeBron racks up. To some people, this illustrates Kobe being selfish and LeBron being a team player. To others, it illustrates Kobe being a winner and LeBron being a "bitch".
Let's just agree, this statement wasn't the most mature statements from someone losing the Finals. He has a history of doing immature things like this... remember 2009? when the Cavs were bumped out of the playoffs by the Heat? LeBron decided to just run off the court without congratulating anyone on the Heat... and later he said something like he's not good at congratulating people after losing.

He's a bitch.. and I'm STILL laughing at his disappearing act in the 4th period.The Magic, not the Heat. It's interesting you bring this up, because Dirk did the exact same thing after winning, and nobody cared. It's also worth pointing out that LeBron made a mistake, learned his lesson, and acted correctly when given the next opportunity. When eliminated by the Celtics, for instance, he in fact had a conversation with Kevin Garnett - we all know what happened after that.

It is not the mark of a mature person to never make mistakes. It is the mark of a mature person to try and do better.

[Parkbandit]

It is not the mark of a mature person to never make mistakes. It is the mark of a mature person to try and do better.

So, you aren't immature if you do something immature.. as long as you don't do the same exact thing again.

Do you have to be a diehard Miami fan"boy" to use this metric?

[Androidpk]

The King? The Chosen 1? The Decision? The Miami spectacle? Yeah.. he's not egotistical or pretentious in ANY way, what was I thinking?

[Parkbandit]

The King? The Chosen 1? The Decision? The Miami spectacle? Yeah.. he's not egotistical or pretentious in ANY way, what was I thinking?

Did he name himself those? LeBron can't be held responsible for nicknames others made up for him.

[Rinualdo]

I'm sure he had a hand in The Decision.

[Keller]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_1ysODn_1Nr4/S_cDeL-XktI/AAAAAAAADZA/hGpgQqZom20/s320/jumpTheShark.jpg

[Androidpk]

Did he name himself those? LeBron can't be held responsible for nicknames others made up for him.

He has Chosen 1 tattooed on his back.

[Keller]

He has Chosen 1 tattooed on his back.

Is there a single NBA player without a "pretentious" tattoo?

Are we really going to do this?

[Warriorbird]

Is there a single NBA player without a "pretentious" tattoo?

Are we really going to do this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uED5Uw2WCaw

[AnticorRifling]

Is there a single NBA player without a "pretentious" tattoo?

Are we really going to do this?

Pistol Pete.

[Keller]

Pistol Pete.

Current. Current NBA players.

[Androidpk]

Is there a single NBA player without a "pretentious" tattoo?

Are we really going to do this?

We're talking about Lebron, stay on topic.

[Keller]

We're talking about Lebron, stay on topic.

I've actually been stating all along that (i) there are actually classless people in the NBA and (ii) Lebron isn't one of them.

So if we want to play the tattoo game, I'm up for it.

[AnticorRifling]

Current. Current NBA players.

Oh sure, change the requirements AFTER I give you a great example.

[Parkbandit]

Is there a single NBA player without a "pretentious" tattoo?

Are we really going to do this?

I'm certain there is.

[Androidpk]

I'm certain there is.

Dirk Nowitzki and Ray Allen for starters :D

[Atlanteax]

Heh @ "Theory A"

Bill Simmons always had interesting things to say in his articles.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/6657623/nba-finals-game-6-retro-diary

[Axhinde]

That series was a display in coaching. Carlisle picked the right time to swap starters, move into the zone defense which Miami had no answer for. Spoelstra seemed to rely on wade and James having big nights and never seemed to urge his players into attacking the basket. Wtf were they doing taking all those jumpers?

[Drakefang]

That series was a display in coaching. Carlisle picked the right time to swap starters, move into the zone defense which Miami had no answer for. Spoelstra seemed to rely on wade and James having big nights and never seemed to urge his players into attacking the basket. Wtf were they doing taking all those jumpers?

This has a shitload more to do with what happened over the course of this series than what the players accomplished, I believe.

Carlisle out coached Spoelstra, as he should based on experience. People act like it's all on the players and what we witnessed was that it was not. Phil Jackson has enough rings to prove this. He lead the most talented teams over his career perhaps but with good reason, he pushed and taught the best how to be just a bit better to win the championship with consistency.

The Terry comment from before about being a greedy scorer was spot on, too. Lebron might be deserving of the attention placed on him but he's not the reason the Heat lost this series. He'll never not have the media spotlight on him.

[Latrinsorm]

So, you aren't immature if you do something immature.. as long as you don't do the same exact thing again.

Do you have to be a diehard Miami fan"boy" to use this metric?One measurement isn't a reliable study. My position is that a person isn't immature if they do one immature thing, then don't do that thing again later. Everybody makes mistakes.

I'm legitimately pleased you learned a new word though.
The King? The Chosen 1? The Decision? The Miami spectacle? Yeah.. he's not egotistical or pretentious in ANY way, what was I thinking?I would argue his ego is in proportion to his ability. It's been obvious since he was in high school that he was going to be one of the best players in the NBA. High school! And that has come to pass - unless he gets caught fixing games or something, he's going to be in the Hall of Fame. When Kareem kvetched about not having a statue outside Staples Center when Oscar freaking de la Hoya has one, no one thought he was being egotistical. Self-defeating, maybe, but not egotistical.

[Keller]

Speaking of classless and immature people . . . .

http://blogs.thescore.com.s3.amazonaws.com/tbj/files/2011/06/mavericks-governor-resoluti.jpg

[Bobmuhthol]

Since there's nothing better for him to be doing in Ohio, I think that the Gov is extremely classful and mature, and I commend him on also hating LeBron.

Also can someone get LeBron a real fucking name?

[Androidpk]

I would argue his ego is in proportion to his ability.

So because of his playing ability that is acceptable?

[NocturnalRob]

So because of his playing ability that is acceptable?
Absolutely. Just look at Jose Canseco...

[Keller]

So because of his playing ability that is acceptable?

http://images.wikia.com/tattoos/images/2/29/Shaq-superman-tattoo.jpg

[Atlanteax]

Okay, so Keller is not a LeBron homer, but *is* a LeBron apologist.

[Latrinsorm]

Also can someone get LeBron a real fucking name?lol
So because of his playing ability that is acceptable?Because of his playing ability it is neither egotistical nor pretentious. By all accounts, he doesn't think he's better than he is. When Pippen recently compared him to Jordan, his reaction was explicit disagreement (and humble gratitude). Here is the exact quote:

"I've got a long way — long way — to be mentioned as far as one of the all-time greats. Not even just Jordan. There's a lot of great players who have played in this league. Larry Bird, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, all these guys who are floating around with multiple rings, Bill Russell, all these guys who have pioneered this game."

With that said, the fact remains that he is really good at basketball. Acting like he wasn't would be pretentious; which is to say, would be having a mindset out of proportion to his ability.

[Androidpk]

lolBecause of his playing ability it is neither egotistical nor pretentious. By all accounts, he doesn't think he's better than he is. When Pippen recently compared him to Jordan, his reaction was explicit disagreement (and humble gratitude). Here is the exact quote:

"I've got a long way — long way — to be mentioned as far as one of the all-time greats. Not even just Jordan. There's a lot of great players who have played in this league. Larry Bird, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, all these guys who are floating around with multiple rings, Bill Russell, all these guys who have pioneered this game."

With that said, the fact remains that he is really good at basketball. Acting like he wasn't would be pretentious; which is to say, would be having a mindset out of proportion to his ability.

Jordan Crawford :rofl:

[Parkbandit]

One measurement isn't a reliable study. My position is that a person isn't immature if they do one immature thing, then don't do that thing again later. Everybody makes mistakes.

Mature people do not repeatedly do immature things. I actually don't hate LeBron like many.. I am simply pointing out that he's been immature in the past and I can see how he achieved the immature reputation.



I'm legitimately pleased you learned a new word though.

I think I made up Fan"boy"... so it wasn't something I had to learn.

[Parkbandit]

With that said, the fact remains that he is really good at basketball... as long as it's not the fourth quarter in a big game.

FTFY

[Keller]

Okay, so Keller is not a LeBron homer, but *is* a LeBron apologist.

I am a realist. I don't get caught up in the ESPN hype and see LBJ for what he is and not some manufactured villain.

[NocturnalRob]

My manager is wearing the championship ring from 1991 today.

[Androidpk]

I am a realist. I don't get caught up in the ESPN hype and see LBJ for what he is and not some manufactured villain.

You are what you eat.

[Keller]

You are what you eat.

An apple a day keeps the doctor away.

[Latrinsorm]

Mature people do not repeatedly do immature things. I actually don't hate LeBron like many.. I am simply pointing out that he's been immature in the past and I can see how he achieved the immature reputation.You pointed out one event. One is not repeatedly.
FTFY2007 Conference Finals Game 5 to take a 3-2 series lead not big enough for you? This is what I mean by one measurement not being reliable. Let's look at his fourth quarter performances in the series against Boston in 2010:

Game 1: 12 points, 3 rebounds, 2 blocks.
Game 2: 12 points, 2 rebounds, 3 steals, 1 turnover.
Game 3: 3 points, 1 block, only played 6 minutes due to being up by 30 points.
Game 4: 5 points, 1 rebound, 2 assists, 1 steal, 1 turnover.
Game 5: 3 points, 1 rebound, 1 turnover.
Game 6: 12 points, 6 rebounds, 2 assists, 1 block, 2 turnovers.

All told: 47 points, 13 rebounds, 4 assists, 4 steals, 4 blocks, 5 turnovers. 10 for 22 from 2, 4 for 12 from 3, 13 for 20 on FT. I would call that "really good" performance against a very good defensive team.

[Keller]

Gonna have to side with PB here.

Lebron is essentially the Peyton Manning of pro basketball. Regular season hero, playoff zero.

[Rinualdo]

Lol

Hey Lebron
How's my Dirk Taste?

http://www.tmz.com/2011/06/13/lebron-james-deshawn-stevenson-dirk-nowitzki-tell-me-how-my-dirk-tastes-tshirt-photo/

[Axhinde]

Gonna have to side with PB here.

Lebron is essentially the Peyton Manning of pro basketball. Regular season hero, playoff zero.

Except Manning has a championship.

[Keller]

Except Manning has a championship.

After how many tries?

Lebron will get his, too.

[Drew]

Isn't LeBron younger than when Jordan won his first title?

[Axhinde]

After how many tries?

Lebron will get his, too.

Too many.

And to Drew, yes he is. By about 2 years.

[Parkbandit]

You pointed out one event. One is not repeatedly.

Go back through this thread... I'm certain that even you can find some other events that were pointed out.



2007 Conference Finals Game 5 to take a 3-2 series lead not big enough for you?

So, you had to go back 4 years to find a good example? That should clue you in.


This is what I mean by one measurement not being reliable. Let's look at his fourth quarter performances in the series against Boston in 2010:

Game 1: 12 points, 3 rebounds, 2 blocks.
Game 2: 12 points, 2 rebounds, 3 steals, 1 turnover.
Game 3: 3 points, 1 block, only played 6 minutes due to being up by 30 points.
Game 4: 5 points, 1 rebound, 2 assists, 1 steal, 1 turnover.
Game 5: 3 points, 1 rebound, 1 turnover.
Game 6: 12 points, 6 rebounds, 2 assists, 1 block, 2 turnovers.

All told: 47 points, 13 rebounds, 4 assists, 4 steals, 4 blocks, 5 turnovers. 10 for 22 from 2, 4 for 12 from 3, 13 for 20 on FT. I would call that "really good" performance against a very good defensive team.

Look at LeBron's production in the 4th quarter vs. his production in the other quarters. Look at other superstars and how the put it in another gear during crunch time. That's not LeBron.

I don't want to quote Gene Hackman from The Replacements... but I will:

Falco "I want the ball"
Coach "Winners always do"

[Parkbandit]

After how many tries?

Lebron will get his, too.

I really do believe that with a good coach in Miami, they could have a dynasty there. Shit, they arguably have 2 of the top 3 players in the NBA... tough not to.

[Rinualdo]

All of this is nonsense when compared to Shaq's sex tape.

[Latrinsorm]

Gonna have to side with PB here.

Lebron is essentially the Peyton Manning of pro basketball. Regular season hero, playoff zero.OK Mr. former semi-apologist.
Go back through this thread... I'm certain that even you can find some other events that were pointed out.I see plenty of things people find disagreeable. I see nothing that speaks to immaturity.
So, you had to go back 4 years to find a good example? That should clue you in.A good example? He scored 25 points in a row in the fourth quarter, overtime, and double overtime against the Pistons. It's one of the all time great playoff clutch performances. And you know how he pulled it off?

He got lucky. Just like every other extremely above-average performance that has ever happened: no one suddenly discovers how to shoot 3s at a 75% clip. David Ortiz didn't suddenly figure out how to hit home runs every at bat. People get lucky - that's a fact. People also get unlucky - that's a fact, too.
Look at LeBron's production in the 4th quarter vs. his production in the other quarters. Look at other superstars and how the put it in another gear during crunch time.I have looked, and they turn out to be very much the same. Sometimes better, sometimes worse, usually the same as any of their other production per touch. The two that really stand out are Chris Paul and Kobe Bryant, whose teams' crunch time offenses are dramatically better and dramatically worse than average. It's easy to remember the times Kobe hit a crazy off-balance shot against triple coverage and lionize him for his "drive", or his "desire", or other empty platitudes. It turns out that most of the time that's a really low-percentage (dumb) isolation play, and his team suffers for it.

[Parkbandit]

LeBron is awesome blah blah blah.

Maybe you are right.. and the rest of the sports world is wrong.

Or... maybe, just maybe.. you once again are the little odd one.

I'm sensing a pattern....

[Keller]

DeShawn Stevenson was arrested.

Where is the outrage!!!

[Parkbandit]

DeShawn Stevenson was arrested.

Where is the outrage!!!

What tattoos does he have?

[Latrinsorm]

I'm more outraged that Tim McMahon insists on using "rugged" whenever talking about DeShawn Stevenson. It's getting a little weird.

Also, you have to admit that it could be a case of mistaken identity. I bet lots of 6'5" guys have 5 dollar bills tattooed on the front of their neck.

[Keller]

What tattoos does he have?

Probably nothing as classless and immature as that hoodrat Lebron James!

[Parkbandit]

I just played NBA Jam.. and LeBron melted in the 4th Q yet AGAIN. If this isn't proof enough, I don't know what is.

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e6/belike53/fcdba832.jpg

[Rinualdo]

I handed Lebron a doller and asked for change. He handed me back 75 cents. I asked him where the rest of it was and he said, sorry, I don't have a fourth quarter.

[NocturnalRob]

I handed Lebron a doller and asked for change. He handed me back 75 cents. I asked him where the rest of it was and he said, sorry, I don't have a fourth quarter.
Damien Woody.

[Keller]

"Irving police said they were called to the Grand Venetian apartments about 10:30 p.m. local time Tuesday to check out a report of an intoxicated person walking in the area. They found [Mavs forward DeShawn] Stevenson, who does not live there, and he did not appear to know where he was." [ESPN]


http://i51.tinypic.com/wlu1as.jpg

[Keller]

At least DeShawn didn't have a press conference where he told everyone he was taking his "talents" to the Grand Venetian in Irving.

[Rinualdo]

Dallas just announced today is Lebron James day.
Everyone gets to take off work 12 minutes early.

[Drew]

Hard to believe that a guy with face and neck tattoos would be capable of making poor life choices.

[Parkbandit]

"Irving police said they were called to the Grand Venetian apartments about 10:30 p.m. local time Tuesday to check out a report of an intoxicated person walking in the area. They found [Mavs forward DeShawn] Stevenson, who does not live there, and he did not appear to know where he was." [ESPN]


http://i51.tinypic.com/wlu1as.jpg

"maybe it was because of a mental disorder"

[NocturnalRob]

"maybe it was because of a mental disorder"
Sounds like your opinion has been warped by the mainstream media.

[Androidpk]

I've been keeping my cell phone on Lebron mode lately. No ring.

[Axhinde]

That would more precisely be called the Dan Marino ringtone.

[Drew]

That's just low Axhinde.

[Rinualdo]

Sometimes, the people of Chi-town do something right.

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/news/story?id=6661570&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines

[Atlanteax]

Not to bump, but came across this today...

http://instntrply.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/boshflop.gif

Apparently Bosh flops on false charges just as bad as Lebron does in the 4th quarters.

[Drew]

World B. Free is gonna be pissed!



LOS ANGELES -- Los Angeles Lakers forward Ron Artest wants to change his name to Metta World Peace.

Artest's attorney filed a petition in Los Angeles Superior Court on Thursday seeking the change. The 31-year-old NBA star was born Ronald William Artest Jr.

In the court documents, Artest cites personal reasons for wanting to make the change.

An Aug. 26 court date was set to consider the petition.

The petition filing was first reported by celebrity website TMZ.

Artest's career has been filled with ups and downs. He helped the Lakers win the NBA championship a year ago and in April he received an award for outstanding service and dedication to the community.

[Hulkein]

Did the ref call a foul on that Bosh flop? What a clown.

[Latrinsorm]

I'm 100% behind Metta Peace.