Fixing to Pure

[audioserf]

Level 57 Half-Krolvin warmage, THW originally and ranged for the last two levels. Kind of over it. Want a good hunter pure mage, enchanting will be fun to mess around with but it's not a priority. Runestaff user.

Questions:
1. Is not wearing armor For Dumb People and should I get 15 ranks of it to wear 3x HCP doubles? I do hate spell failure.
2. Is MoC worth it for splash? How much is a good start?
3. Is it worth pushing PF higher than max blood pre-cap? It's expensive but I am aware of its benefits. It would cost me spell ranks.
4. I'd thought about Immo, but I'm not high enough level for it yet and I value as close to 3x spells as I can get over Fire Lore at this point. Bad decision? Plan is to primarily bolt for now. COL master.

Stats:
STR 94
CON 76
DEX 90
AGL 96
DIS 91
AUR 87
LOG 86
INT 78
WIS 87
INF 71

Training:
PF 24 ranks
.5x Swim/Climb/Perception
1x AS/MIU/EMC
1.5x HP
2x Spell Aim
2.7x spells - 57 MnE, 57 MjE, 35 Wiz

[Kitsun]

1. Get full leathers?
2. If you group hunt and like to use ball spells to splash damage to get kill credit, it can be worth it for 2-3 ranks. Otherwise I'd skip it until later levels.
3. If you don't mind being picky as hell about hunting grounds, you can probably skate by with the 24 ranks. It does help if you're in maneuver heavy country.
4. The problem with Immo is you need Fire Lore AND high enough CS to push through damage. If you want to just bolt then I'd skip it.

[audioserf]

I am glad someone smarter than me read my post, how did I forget full leather. I haven't played enough lately.

Based on your input, Kitsun, I'll likely skip MoC, bump PF some, and lay off the lores for now.

Thank you.

[phantasm]

1. If you have HCP doubles, use those.
2. You can get decent enough splash damage without MoC, save MoC for warcamps.
3. 24 ranks is fine.
4. bolting owns precap

This is perfect:


PF 24 ranks
.5x Swim/Climb/Perception
1x AS/MIU/EMC
1.5x HP
2x Spell Aim
2.7x spells - 57 MnE, 57 MjE, 35 Wiz

[audioserf]

I'll see how much shit I'd need to lose from that to get 15 ranks of armor. Probably a few wizard spells. I'll keep playing with it, but I did just buy those leathers recently so it would suck to have to find fulls to replace them.

Edit: 15 ranks armor cost 2 Wizard spells, barely.

[phantasm]

You will have some hindrance, but you will be fine at 1.5 HP, col, and leech.

[DaCapn]

With respect to PF training, I just went for max health.

Haste is pretty good at mitigating effects of maneuvers. I never had much trouble warcamping in the mid-late 40's with haste always up. I got crit-killed by a maneuver once (maybe twice) but I attribute that to the fact that there were some creatures spawning a good 15-20 levels over my head.

I've never found a place that I wouldn't solo-hunt a wizard but I guess my highest level wizard is only mid 50's. I feel like a bolt wizard can pretty much do whatever the hell they want.

[Jymamon]

I'd also recommend to stop training in HP once you hit 100 ranks and using the saved points to up other skills - if you can't fry your head with 600 mana at cap (I'm counting leech in there), something's wrong.

I'm a fan of 1x PF and perception by cap, but I'm sure others have plenty of ideas where else the points could go.

Upping AS and/or MIU to 2x would give you some more defense for those times you're caught in a compromising position and give you better spell durations. I prefer AS over MIU because it seems to get me more spell variety, but the fact that you can recharge your own items (assuming they're rechargeable) is a factor to consider.


I feel like a bolt wizard can pretty much do whatever the hell they want.
I totally agree with this statement. As long as you keep 2x Spell Aiming and take minor elemental to 75 ranks, it'll be hard to make yourself unable to hunt.

[audioserf]

I'd also recommend to stop training in HP once you hit 100 ranks and using the saved points to up other skills - if you can't fry your head with 600 mana at cap (I'm counting leech in there), something's wrong.

That's an idea. I'll play around with my trainer some, and see about using the TPs toward more AS/MIU/Perception.

Thanks.

Edit: Did some things. Here's the character at 100. Sacrificed some MjE (I had him at 153 originally at cap) since I'll be primarily bolting and wanted to get PF to 1x. Good/bad?

Armor 15
PF 101
Climb+Swim 50
Perception 101
AS/MIU 202
HP 100
EMC 101
Spell Aim 202
Air Lore 24
MjE 138
MnE 75
Wiz 50

[eboats]

One thing to keep in mind is that each wizard rank gives +1 DS to 905 and 913. Play.net doesn't mention anything about those spells capping either. For CS I would do Level +21, so I would do MjE 121 and Wizard 67.

[Dayko]

Damn all this is helping me for when I fix to pure too tomorrow, bro. Thank for putting up thread.

[Dayko]

I am glad someone smarter than me read my post, how did I forget full leather. I haven't played enough lately.

Based on your input, Kitsun, I'll likely skip MoC, bump PF some, and lay off the lores for now.

Thank you.

By the way, train in air lore for haste's benefits..When you're using herbs and other stuff that causes RT.

[audioserf]

Made the fix today. Love it. Thanks for the help all.

[DaCapn]

24 ranks of air lore is a good notion in general.

You get Tonis bolt (good opener), an extra second off with haste, and two extra items in your disks.

[audioserf]

Yah I took 24 ranks Air for sure. No brainer.

[Dayko]

Yah I took 24 ranks Air for sure. No brainer.
Ha ha..I didn't play today yet, maybe tomorrow I'll start fixskilling, if you don't mind really it'd be great if you send me PM of your skills just for the taste of it.

[Gesaril]

I've been considering changing from war mage to immolation. Just change for change's sake, really, as I've been enjoying bashing things at 1 second. I'd be able to manage the following at my current level. Should I hold off for a few more levels, or would this be viable right now?

4 armor ranks
24 PF
1x AS
1x MIU
1.5x HP
2x SA
1x EMC
44 MjE
40 MnE
20 Wiz
24 Air
1x Fire
15 climb
15 swim
15 perception

[audioserf]

What level? 40? Seems way early to hunt as an immo build. You won't have the lore for true killing power or the mana to sustain 19 per pop...

[Dayko]

What level? 40? Seems way early to hunt as an immo build. You won't have the lore for true killing power or the mana to sustain 19 per pop...
What gets me is that the spell immolation is when you get it at 19 knowing most wizards won't be able to use it, why not switch it to a much later spell training?

[Gesaril]

What level? 40? Seems way early to hunt as an immo build. You won't have the lore for true killing power or the mana to sustain 19 per pop...

I'll be 45 shortly. Guess I'll stick with war mage for the time being.

[Dayko]

My skills now..wearing a 4x robe with padding
Physical Fitness...................| 102 24
Arcane Symbols.....................| 157 57
Magic Item Use.....................| 157 57
Spell Aiming.......................| 176 76
Harness Power......................| 157 57
Elemental Mana Control.............| 136 38
Elemental Lore - Air...............| 90 20
Elemental Lore - Fire..............| 66 14
Perception.........................| 102 24
Climbing...........................| 78 17
Swimming...........................| 70 15

Spell Lists
Major Elemental....................| 30

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 35

Spell Lists
Wizard.............................| 34

[Axhinde]

Just be glad you don't have to wait 10 seconds inbetween prep and cast.

[Blazar]

I have a mage that was previously trained to simply do enchanting and such, and I am looking to get him hunting with my rogue once they are of the same level. Here's what I am currently migrating him to, but before it goes too much farther would like some people's advice on it. I have always been more of a square type player and mage training confounds me at times. Any suggestions will be appreciated! Obviously I am aiming for a pure.

He is level 29.



Skill Name | Actual Actual
| Bonus Ranks Goals In-Game Time to Goal
Armor Use..........................| 35 7 0 11 days, 19 hours, 19 minutes
Physical Fitness...................| 105 25 24 1 day, 14 hours, 13 minutes
Arcane Symbols.....................| 128 34.339 30 1 day, 13 hours, 57 minutes
Magic Item Use.....................| 128 34.343 20 1 day, 22 hours, 17 minutes
Spell Aiming.......................| 149 49 62 ASAP (will rise when points are available)
Harness Power......................| 124 32 51 ASAP (will rise when points are available)
Elemental Mana Control.............| 155 55.086 25 33 days, 21 hours, 43 minutes
Perception.........................| 0 0 7 ASAP (will rise when points are available)
Climbing...........................| 0 0 17 ASAP (will rise when points are available)
Swimming...........................| 5 1 10 ASAP (will rise when points are available)

Spell Lists
Major Elemental....................| 28.159 27 1 day, 16 hours, 39 minutes

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 26 28 ASAP (will rise when points are available)

Spell Lists
Wizard.............................| 28.159 28 1 day, 23 hours, 19 minutes

[DaCapn]

If you're finding it difficult, you might be over-thinking it.

- Get your armor, PF, and climb to whatever you need
- 2x AS, 2x MIU, 2x SA, 1x+ HP, 1x EMC
- Put the rest into spell research, reserving some for lores if you want tonis bolt
- Get more lores around level 50 or so if you want

Balancing spell research is basically personal preference if you don't know all spells (though, there are some obvious choices, such as getting 425 ASAP). How you train in lores is pretty similar.

From the perspective of a bolting wizard, spell overtraining yields the following:
- MjE: +0.75 DS, +0.5 AS
- MnE: +0.5 DS, +0.5AS, +0.5 ETD, +0.5 ECS
- Wiz: +1.25 DS, +0.33 ETD

The conventional wisdom is that once all spells have been learned, train with the following priority: MjE, MnE, Wiz. Wizards have tons of DS, the wizard base isn't too important. MjE CS is more important than MnE and it contributes equally to bolt AS so it gets preference. There's a couple of breaking points in the CS formula where MnE training could yield more MjE CS than a rank in MjE but those situations are either silly or post-cap.

Aside from enchanting and charging that describes basically every nuance of bolt wizard training.

How this affects your training:
- Why aren't you taking 4 ranks of AU for full leather?
- Increase AS/MIU, it's cheap runestaff DS and you may want wands
- If you're training in perception for maneuver defense, PF is way more important. You'll have so many PTPs converted to MTP that the cost of PF & perception will be nearly equal. Probably not worthwhile for another 20 levels, though.

[Blazar]

Thanks for the advice, gives me a good guide line to go by. My problem is I never really have enough points for what I want to do, but I guess that can be said for any character!

[audioserf]

The help in this thread is solid and I've been simply loving life since going pure. I'm kicking a ton of ass at level 64 without trouble and that's as a krolvin, which is hilarious. I picked the race for my warmage but I'm still enjoying it as a pure. The shit tons of HP comes in really handy; between my armor and Stone Skin, I survive a lot of situations that would have killed a smaller character.

[Gesaril]

So I'm back after about a year off and I'm still itchin' to switch to pure/immolation.

4 ranks Armor
24 ranks PF
1x AS
1x MIU
1x HP
2x SA
1x MCE
101 ranks Fire Lore
20 ranks climb/swim
24 ranks perc

MjE 54, MnE 46, Wiz 30

I think this could work but I'd like some opinions before I fixskill. Would've been nice if I started back up before the annual fixskills so I could have tried it out and just switched back, but I missed it by a day.

[lordsmo]

Not sure exactly what level you, but guessing 50s by the looks of it. 519 will likely be too mana intensive to use as a go-to hunting spell at that level. Also, you may find the crit-killing performance of 519 disappointing at the endrolls you are likely to generate at that level. You really need large warding margins to make 519 an effective one shot killer. You will find yourself having a lot of casts that simply inflict 4 rank 3-5 crits.

Compared to one cast of 519, you will likely find that 5 casts of 904 is a better way to spend 20 mana. (If you stack rapid fire before your hunt, 19 casts of 901 is even better than either...) If you bolt rather than immolate, you can drop the fire lore and invest the TPs into more spells. Keeping 400 and 500 circle at level will max your bolt AS. Many wizards go from 0 to cap with no lore except 24 ranks of air (20 to unlock Tonis bolt, 21 for the extra disk slot, and 24 for the extra second of haste reduction).

All that being said, many, many people know more than me about pure wizards... I used THW all the way to cap. Whirlin's recent thread has lots of info, if you haven't read it already.

[Whirlin]

Not sure exactly what level you, but guessing 50s by the looks of it. 519 will likely be too mana intensive to use as a go-to hunting spell at that level. Also, you may find the crit-killing performance of 519 disappointing at the endrolls you are likely to generate at that level. You really need large warding margins to make 519 an effective one shot killer. You will find yourself having a lot of casts that simply inflict 4 rank 3-5 crits.


Sadly, that's not quite the case... in my discussions from Methais, it turns out that the endroll doesn't have a strong correlation to death crits, it's mainly the fire lore ranks. I've altered the guide since then as a result.

However, the commentary remains accurate in terms of mana costs per kill. You're really dependent on each kill being a death crit, or having your rogue finish a critter if you fail. Even then, at level 50... you're looking at casting the spell, maybe a dozen times during a hunt at max?

Also your lack of perception and physical fitness will hurt you drastically as you continue beyond the 60s and fight more creatures with maneuver attacks or mobility based spells (boil earth and spike thorn).

[Gesaril]

So basically if I was planning on doing a combo of 519/906 to finish them off, that strategy is kinda pointless and I should just solely use 906?

Alright, onto my next idea. Fixskilling my warmage into LBP.

[Whirlin]

Read my guide on Warmage Info... completely depends on race...

If you want to use 906, no reason to go beyond 50 ranks in Fire Lore. And I still recommend 24 air lore ranks, 1x PF, and 1x Perception

[lordsmo]

Sadly, that's not quite the case... in my discussions from Methais, it turns out that the endroll doesn't have a strong correlation to death crits, it's mainly the fire lore ranks. I've altered the guide since then as a result.

However, the commentary remains accurate in terms of mana costs per kill. You're really dependent on each kill being a death crit, or having your rogue finish a critter if you fail. Even then, at level 50... you're looking at casting the spell, maybe a dozen times during a hunt at max?

Also your lack of perception and physical fitness will hurt you drastically as you continue beyond the 60s and fight more creatures with maneuver attacks or mobility based spells (boil earth and spike thorn).

I could be wrong, but my understanding was that the fire lore ranks control the chance of outright immolating the target (wisps of smoke curl up, or whatever the messaging is), whereas the endroll control the crit ranks generated by the crit cycles (albeit with a substantial randomized component); these crit kills are a huge percentage of the total one-shot kills. So endroll plays no role in the insta-death immolate chance, but is a major factor in generating one-shot kills.

I can't remember the thread where this was discussed, but I did post in there that I have zero fire lore, and casted 519 at 60 rats and every single critical generated was rank 9. Not even one rank 8. I've noticed a similar phenomenon with 415 where crit rank is correlated with endroll and a randomized component, but that at high enough endrolls the results converge towards a near-100% chance of rank 9.

Edited to add: also, in that thread I posted that I got zero insta-immolates against those rats, lending further weight to the idea that fire lore alone controls that part of the spell

[Askip]

Greetings folks,
Rapid Fire stacks? Is this a recent change or just something I never noticed because I did not use it often? Cool. :D


Not sure exactly what level you, but guessing 50s by the looks of it. 519 will likely be too mana intensive to use as a go-to hunting spell at that level. Also, you may find the crit-killing performance of 519 disappointing at the endrolls you are likely to generate at that level. You really need large warding margins to make 519 an effective one shot killer. You will find yourself having a lot of casts that simply inflict 4 rank 3-5 crits.

Compared to one cast of 519, you will likely find that 5 casts of 904 is a better way to spend 20 mana. (If you stack rapid fire before your hunt, 19 casts of 901 is even better than either...) If you bolt rather than immolate, you can drop the fire lore and invest the TPs into more spells. Keeping 400 and 500 circle at level will max your bolt AS. Many wizards go from 0 to cap with no lore except 24 ranks of air (20 to unlock Tonis bolt, 21 for the extra disk slot, and 24 for the extra second of haste reduction).

All that being said, many, many people know more than me about pure wizards... I used THW all the way to cap. Whirlin's recent thread has lots of info, if you haven't read it already.

[Askip]

Heh, nearly 1,000 mana if you wrack too, the extra Immo casts on the way out of OTF were always fun and profitable. :D


I'd also recommend to stop training in HP once you hit 100 ranks and using the saved points to up other skills - if you can't fry your head with 600 mana at cap (I'm counting leech in there), something's wrong.

I'm a fan of 1x PF and perception by cap, but I'm sure others have plenty of ideas where else the points could go.

Upping AS and/or MIU to 2x would give you some more defense for those times you're caught in a compromising position and give you better spell durations. I prefer AS over MIU because it seems to get me more spell variety, but the fact that you can recharge your own items (assuming they're rechargeable) is a factor to consider.


I totally agree with this statement. As long as you keep 2x Spell Aiming and take minor elemental to 75 ranks, it'll be hard to make yourself unable to hunt.