CCCP ain't all that bad

Well, the video of Berg's beheading is pretty shocking, but did you know this is not the first time such actions have happened?

A few years ago (when the now Russian Federation was the CCCP) this happened to the Russians. What did they do? Exactly what they did.

The Soviets sent the KGB to find out who the families of the killers were. They arrested the family members of the murders. Tortured them and cut them to pieces then sent the body parts to the leader of the militant group. A few days later more Russian prisinors were released and attacks like this stopped in the Soviet Union. Now, I know we're to believe anything Soviet is evil, but they know how to deal with this situation. Let's follow in their lead.

- Arkans

[Artha]

The soviets were good with dealing with terrorist threats, I'll give them that. I hear they also mixed suicide bombers with pork. I imagine that would be an effective deterrent as well.

Link to story?

[Xcalibur]

Russian were not evil. In no way. They were not north american. That's the only difference with the us and them.

Heard it on cable news. If you explore the Fox News website you might find more information. If that fails, researching recent KGB actions will find it out. As an Eastern European though, it's sounds very typical of what would happen in the CCCP.

- Arkans

Originally posted by Xcalibur
Russian were not evil. In no way. They were not north american. That's the only difference with the us and them.

Err, that's a common misconception. The CCCP did some horrifying things to the nations under their sphere of influence. Countries that expecially suffered would be the then Czechoslovakia and Poland. Where they as bad as they were made out to be? No. Was it still a horrible regime? Yes.

- Arkans

[Xcalibur]

As the US. I'm sure more people died from the many embargos made by the US and their political pressures than the USSR or CCCP by their "be with us" attitude.

End justify the means.

[Artha]

You think US embargos killed more people than Soviet Pogroms (not to mention political prisoners)?

[Xcalibur]

Yes. Without a doubt.

If I'm wrong, then, I'll still say this: One death because of the us's embargos was already too many from (for) a democratic pro-freedom country.

[Edited on 13-5-04 by Xcalibur]

Originally posted by Xcalibur
As the US. I'm sure more people died from the many embargos made by the US and their political pressures than the USSR or CCCP by their "be with us" attitude.

End justify the means.

Not really. It's commonly not spoken about, but Stalin killed more people than Hitler. The worse part of it all was that all the people killed under Stalin were his own people. There really is no comparison in death. While the US has made a mistake it is not contest that the CCCP violated more human rights/caused more deaths.

That still doesn't mean that they were wrong in the way they handle terrorism. Remember how the Chechen militants captured a theatre in Moscow? They went in and gassed them all out and put down the resistance hard. This is how we should deal with these savages.

- Arkans

[Atlanteax]

Originally posted by Arkans
Well, the video of Berg's beheading is pretty shocking, but did you know this is not the first time such actions have happened?

A few years ago (when the now Russian Federation was the CCCP) this happened to the Russians. What did they do? Exactly what they did.

The Soviets sent the KGB to find out who the families of the killers were. They arrested the family members of the murders. Tortured them and cut them to pieces then sent the body parts to the leader of the militant group. A few days later more Russian prisinors were released and attacks like this stopped in the Soviet Union. Now, I know we're to believe anything Soviet is evil, but they know how to deal with this situation. Let's follow in their lead.

- Arkans

Bleeding heart liberals wouldn't allow us to use such an effective tactic...

[Siefer]

The Russians definately know their shit when it comes to counter terrorism. I think the US govt. should watch move RealTV and start applying those methods, they'll find bin Laden in a fucking day if they do.

[Warriorbird]

Screw that. I'd have been all in favor of wiping out Saddam with a hit squad.. he deserved that much, certainly. Chasing Al'Qaeda isn't our number one priority, however... profiteering/conquering/the shift out of Saudi Arabia is.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
Screw that. I'd have been all in favor of wiping out Saddam with a hit squad.. he deserved that much, certainly. Chasing Al'Qaeda isn't our number one priority, however... profiteering/conquering/the shift out of Saudi Arabia is.

LMAO.. really Warriorbird.. you need to let this go. It's making your credibility look like shit.

The War against Terrorism was NOT initiated to get our troops out of SA. Really.

It was started to divert attention to.. Area 51. Really.

:lol:

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Did you hear about the aliens the Mexican Air Force saw yesterday?

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?click_id=122&art_id=qw1084294082176B252& set_id=1

[Edited on 5-13-2004 by Suppa Hobbit Mage]

[Parkbandit]

Just using the term "Mexican Airforce" is a joke.

Stop it..

PS - I heard something about it.. got the story? Post it!!

[Weedmage Princess]

Bah, you people need to lighten up on the poor Mexicans :no:

Not every Mexican is like the ones that you typically see in this country.

All kidding aside, it's really disturbing to see the amount of prejudice and hatred I see on these boards. Most people I've encountered in my life aren't this bad.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Hey now, I sure PB was kidding, and I was just building on his Area 51 comment, nothing racist intended or implied :(

[Weedmage Princess]

I know SHM...deep down I didn't think you two were serious (I hope not atleast, I do think you two are bigger than that.) ..but that was just more in general. I mean you have to admit it...there IS a lot of prejudice on these boards, at least a lot more than I typically see/hear/experience.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Oh hell yeah, shockingly so. I think it has to do a LOT with the anonyminity that the internet offers. I say things here I know I wouldn't in person, I think everyone does to some extent.

I think the internet brings out how people truly feel though, which in my mind, means a LOT of people have some sort of "ism" to varying degree's (racism, sexism, homophobia, etc, etc). We've come a long way in equality, but I think it's human nature to "pick sides" rather than try to understand.

The extreme's on this board do help me though... if only to bring to light how awful people can be, and to kind of let me know and be aware of the things I (in my white collar world) don't see a lot of.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Weedmage Princess
Bah, you people need to lighten up on the poor Mexicans :no:

Not every Mexican is like the ones that you typically see in this country.

All kidding aside, it's really disturbing to see the amount of prejudice and hatred I see on these boards. Most people I've encountered in my life aren't this bad.

Whoa... slow down there old lady. I was kidding!

Well.. semi-kidding. Anything next to the US Airforce really is a joke.. but if I said Canadian Airforce is a joke.. would that be better?

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

http://members.aol.com/billpurcell/Images/Canada.jpg

[Weedmage Princess]

Again, for Parkbandit:


Originally posted by Weedmage Princess
I know SHM...deep down I didn't think you two were serious (I hope not atleast, I do think you two are bigger than that.) ..but that was just more in general. I mean you have to admit it...there IS a lot of prejudice on these boards, at least a lot more than I typically see/hear/experience.

AND DAMNIT YOU ARE OLDER THAN ME!!!!

<scratches Parkbandit off her favoritest posters list> HMPH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Seriously, I figured you two were just goofing off...like I said (above) it was more of a general comment. There is a LOT of hatred towards races and religions displayed on these boards..a lot of misconceptions, a lot of animosity. It's obvious when it's a joke and when it has a "not so joking" feel to it, know what I mean?

SHM has a point, I don't think a lot of the things said here would be repeated verbatim or even close to that off the computer by most of these folks (though I'm sure there are a few who would anyway) but..I do believe in *SOME* cases (not all) that the people who say these things here...really feel that way. I guess that's what is disheartening--or atleast what I find most disheartening. I always thought that as time passed, the type of stuff we see on these boards sometimes would die and fade away. It's more present than what I thought it was.

I don't care nor do I want to know more about groups that saw the heads off Americans with a large knife. Kill them all. Those that don't surrender to the American forces should be swiftly jailed. Those that resist should be shot. These people need to be put down by brute force.

If that makes me a bigot, then fine. I'm tired of trying not to offend the Arab population.

- Arkans

[MPSorc]

i say our troops should start an age old American tradition and start scalpin fucker they kill/wound. give us a few hundred of those scalps and show them that we mean business, we need to appear more ruthless in our efforts or demonstrate that we are not just a bunch of pansies that listen to every bleeding heart and let our troops stand out in the open and get shot without returning fire.

[Xcalibur]

Originally posted by Suppa Hobbit Mage
http://members.aol.com/billpurcell/Images/Canada.jpg

Canada's airforce is what.. around the 10th biggest in the world? By constantly laughing of ally counties, I wonder what will happen.

Not because the US is number one in almost all things that the world stop to turn.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

OH NOEZ! CANADA IS GOING TO INVADE US!

[TheEschaton]

"I think, if you live in Buffalo, right near the Canadian border....at night, you can hear them sharpening their fucking skates, ready to swoop on down"

~Dennis Leary.

In a war, we'd make Canada our bitch.

- Arkans

[MPSorc]

Originally posted by Arkans
In a war, we'd make Canada our bitch.

- Arkans

thats a pretty fair statement, aye?

[Xcalibur]

In a war, Canada would not be your ennemy, bunch of fools. Canada would be sending troops as in WW1, WW2, Corée, and so on.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

"A proof is a proof. What kind of a proof? It's a proof. A proof is a proof. And when you have a good proof, it's because it's proven."
Prime Minister Jean Chrétien (on finding no Iraqi weapons of mass destruction)

"I'm not an American! I am a Canadian. I come from a "nice", thoroughly unrealistic country."
Matthew Fisher

"The great themes of Canadian history are as follows: Keeping the Americans out, keeping the French in, and trying to get the Natives to somehow disappear."
Will Ferguson


and in all fairness,

"In a world darkened by ethnic conflicts that tear nations apart, Canada stands as a model of how people of different cultures can live and work together in peace, prosperity, and mutual respect."
U.S. President Bill Clinton

And X, I HONESTLY, don't feel one way or another towards Canada, but it's good humor :)

[MPSorc]

and X i don't think US and Canada will ever be at war with each other, just think of all this Anti-Canuck talk like umm canada is America's little brother or what not, have to pick on them to keep them in check. aye.

Originally posted by Xcalibur
In a war, Canada would not be your ennemy, bunch of fools. Canada would be sending troops as in WW1, WW2, Corée, and so on.

OMFG U FUCKING N00b!!1111 C4N4DA w00d b3 pwned!!!11111

No shit, but I'm talking about a "what if" scenario.

- Arkans

Canada = America Jr.

[Parkbandit]

I just mentioned Canada because of the large Canadian population here. I did NOT mean to start the Canadian bashing.

Ok.. maybe I did.

And Weedmage.. I was only calling you old lady because I am an old man.. and are you SURE I am older than you? Criminy.. I feel old now.

[Xcalibur]

Johnny Chrétien was a moron for 80% of Québécois and 50% of the rest of Canada.

He's the asshole that put his helmet backward.

Pepper gate!

Without Canada, the US would be weak, economicaly and technologicaly.

And base bally (ÉRIC GAGNÉ! WOWOWOWOWOW)

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
Just using the term "Mexican Airforce" is a joke.

Stop it..

PS - I heard something about it.. got the story? Post it!!

It's under the thread entitled UFO's in which I posted yesterday.

[Valthissa]

If I recall my mid-east history correctly, the model for dealing with terrorism comes fom Jordan.

The PLO was using Jordan as a base of operations. The PLO assassinated the prime minister of Jordan.

So the king rounded up the mothers, grandmothers, and children of the terrorsists and told the PLO to leave the country or they would kill their families.

The PLO left after a few deaths - this would be circa 1972/73

This kind of response may be suitable for a King. It is absolutely not suitable for a democracy.

C/Valthissa

[Atlanteax]

Originally posted by Valthissa
If I recall my mid-east history correctly, the model for dealing with terrorism comes fom Jordan.

The PLO was using Jordan as a base of operations. The PLO assassinated the prime minister of Jordan.

So the king rounded up the mothers, grandmothers, and children of the terrorsists and told the PLO to leave the country or they would kill their families.

The PLO left after a few deaths - this would be circa 1972/73

This kind of response may be suitable for a King. It is absolutely not suitable for a democracy.

C/Valthissa

Why not?

What if doing so ensures no further WTC disasters?

I'm reasonably certain that most Americans would approve of such a tactic if it guaranteed the end of such terrorism.

Sure there'll be some "moral conflict", but I reckon it's a temporary price that most would be willing to pay.

After the terrorists are effectively deterred, we can go back to being "high and mighty" in doing "what is right".

[TheEschaton]

Because giving up our moral position for our security is against all the principles our founding fathers instilled in this country's inception?

Like Ben Franklin said, those who would give up their freedom for security, deserve neither.

Maybe you don't care about the foundations this country was built on, but many people do. If we did something like this - we might as well raze Capitol Hill and install a giant throne, because we would be no better than any autocracy around the world.

-TheE-

[Hulkein]

Terrorism wasn't the same when those fathers founded this country, though.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Atlanteax
Why not? Because killing people (let alone innocent people) is wrong.

Letting that aside for a moment, I doubt very much that becoming more brutal would deter anything.

[TheEschaton]

The whole thing of it, though, Hulkein, is that these principles are supposedly immutable.

Right and Wrong doesn't change. Morality, the study of right and wrong, does....but the principles themselves don't.


-TheE-

[Valthissa]

Originally posted by TheEschaton
Because giving up our moral position for our security is against all the principles our founding fathers instilled in this country's inception?

Like Ben Franklin said, those who would give up their freedom for security, deserve neither.

Maybe you don't care about the foundations this country was built on, but many people do. If we did something like this - we might as well raze Capitol Hill and install a giant throne, because we would be no better than any autocracy around the world.

-TheE-

it pains me to say this but -

TheE's answer is very much like my own.

C/Valth

I don't see how taking proper steps in dealing with terrorism would make us a monarchy...

- Arkans

[TheEschaton]

The difference being, you see them as proper, normal, rational, sane people, see them as improper.

-TheE-

[Weedmage Princess]

Way to twist everything I said, Arkans.

There's a difference between wanting to take out the terrorist, and wanting to take out everyone just because of what nationality or religion they are.

And please don't refer to me as some "bleeding heart" liberal or some such if that's what you were doing, because I'm not.

That is, if that post of yours was directed at me commenting on the bigotry and such on these boards...and what I am referring to does not only have to do with people wanting to kill any and every Arabic person they see, either.