new build suggestions.

[Rallorick]

so I have a sorcerer, and since coming back to GS a while back, I haven' put much time into him... currently, he works just fine, but he's just a little boring. So I'm thinking of a new build with fixskills - what are the options out there? I thought of maybe trying out a ranged build, but I'm having trouble with the numbers working out...

here's where he's at currently. I'm sure it's fail, like I said, just haven't put much time into it:


Race: Dark Elf Profession: Sorcerer (shown as: Sorcerer)
Gender: Male Age: 56 Expr: 1126902 Level: 31
Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 73 (11) ... 73 (11)
Constitution (CON): 50 (-5) ... 50 (-5)
Dexterity (DEX): 65 (17) ... 65 (17)
Agility (AGI): 80 (20) ... 80 (20)
Discipline (DIS): 65 (-3) ... 65 (-3)
Aura (AUR): 100 (35) ... 100 (35)
Logic (LOG): 83 (16) ... 83 (16)
Intuition (INT): 70 (15) ... 70 (15)
Wisdom (WIS): 100 (30) ... 100 (30)
Influence (INF): 80 (10) ... 80 (10)
Mana: 108 Silver: 0
>skill
(at level 31), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 30 6
Physical Fitness...................| 108 26
Arcane Symbols.....................| 126 33
Magic Item Use.....................| 126 33
Spell Aiming.......................| 164 64
Harness Power......................| 126 33
Elemental Mana Control.............| 126 33
Spirit Mana Control................| 122 31
Sorcerous Lore - Demonology........| 99 23
Sorcerous Lore - Necromancy........| 74 16
Perception.........................| 126 33
Climbing...........................| 66 14
Swimming...........................| 62 13
First Aid..........................| 30 6

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 30

Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 14

Spell Lists
Sorcerer...........................| 30

[whiteflash]

There are many issues with using a sorcerer as a ranged weapon user. Here are a few that are going to make this rough.

1. MTPs for spells and 1x range/2x perception are going to be brutal.
2. We only have the physical AS booster 425, combined with 1x range = poor ranged AS.
3. Your strength for using bows is low, 10 bonus, which will incur high RT when firing.

To be honest, I would not suggest doing this. Sorcerers are not known for being fun until much later in the game, typically post lvl 40-50. Even then you will be plinking until you can generate enough CS and mana to use our higher end spells.

You are 'only' level 31, and while I know you may have put a ton of work into this the best bet if you want to try something new is to simply re-roll a ranger/rogue/bard (or anything but a sorcerer really) and use them with archery. Sorcerer may be the absolute worst choice for an archer. The first 20 levels go fast especially if you use bigshot and just watch (or not) the levels fly by. This will also be way more entertaining in the long run.

If you really want to do it 1x ranged/2x perception. Ignore all other tertiary skills and focus on spell ranks for AS/DS. 1x HP, fulls or doubles for armor, handfull of climbing depending on where you are hunting, 1x SMC, NO LORES, handfull of MIU, spell aiming might be nice 2x so you can use wizard wands to augment your attack. Beg strength and wizards. Good luck.

Quick comment on skills: Ack! You need strength high, con much higher, agility and dexterity will be important in this build too...

[Fallen]

Have to agree with WF. You will want to wait until near/capped to try a ranged sorcerer build. I'm sure it COULD be done before then, but you better work in Arcane Symbols and MIU as well so you can scroll tank to make up for lost AS/DS

[Asha]

You definitely need to be way up there in levels for ranged sorc, take it from me.
Also when / if you do, there's no reason why you shouldn't have 50 ranks of each sorc lore. Every sorcerer in the game should have at least that.

[whiteflash]

You definitely need to be way up there in levels for ranged sorc, take it from me.
Also when / if you do, there's no reason why you shouldn't have 50 ranks of each sorc lore. Every sorcerer in the game should have at least that.

Boo lores! Boo! I am crusading against all lores until they actually do something useful! I'm post cap and have only a single rank of necro lore, ha! Necro can be useful for pain on certain critters (like lava golems) and is awesome if you have a soulstone wand. In general I think the cost/benefit for our lores is outrageous. Demonlogy lets you have crappy demons which I've only used to pick up cursed gems in the rift, extra box reduction weight, decreased rift and CoS failure.

Give us combat related lore boosts! Crits on 702/705! Chance of treasure on 720! Something.. <wanders off to continue to 3x HP>

For seriously they do have some benefits, I'm a mechanics player and they just don't seem to pay off.

[Asha]

50 ranks demonology for guaranteed CoS retribution is so cheap it's a no brainer for one of the most important effects to the best defence spell in game.

50 ranks in Necro for maximum damage (1/3 of entire health per cast) to 711, which is also cheap as fuck for one of the most powerful attack spells in game.

[Fallen]

704 = Awesome if you like treasure. Can't beat phase weight reduction. Beyond that, it is entirely fluff. 712 is ALMOST worth it, but honestly, you're better off not chanting anything and saving the points.

[msconstrew]

These guys are all right; Ranged would be a nightmare for you, at your level.

I recently converted to a brawl/shield build with Fallen and WF's advice - after doing it for a level or so, I'll never go back to a runestaff build. (insert immature runestaff joke here) I feel my character (level 57 sorcerer) has a lot more versatility with the brawl/shield than she ever did with the runestaff build.

I know there are a few people who've done a two-hander build, and maybe that's something you could consider. But you're going to need good armor, strength enhancives, and a lot of outside spells to make it work.

Good luck!

[Fallen]

The only non-casting build I can recommend for a sorcerer is archery, and that should only be done at cap. It is useful in OTF to drop Janissaries and Griffins in one shot, especially if you can CS-based web griffins before hand.

It is a very expensive toy, though. Better suited for someone well post cap who is bored.

[Asha]

Better suited for someone well post cap who is bored.

Or AWESOME!

[whiteflash]

50 ranks demonology for guaranteed CoS retribution is so cheap it's a no brainer for one of the most important effects to the best defence spell in game.

50 ranks in Necro for maximum damage (1/3 of entire health per cast) to 711, which is also cheap as fuck for one of the most powerful attack spells in game.

And now we're wayyy off topic, sorry OP, but I'm gonna rant on lores more!

I guess I just don't get physically hit while stunned much to make that worth it. It could rarely save me I suppose, but 50 ranks is still 500k xp for me. If you consider that worth the rare retribution, go for it. To 1x lores it is around 1m xp(for my current xp level/conversion), or ~20 spell ranks, and I'd just rather have the CS/TD/DS from the spell ranks.

Necro is great at certain points in the game, but just pre-cap and post cap I just find it wanting compared to a huge CS and using 717/719. Casting 711 at something 3 times is STILL plinking. The biggest benefit IMO to pain is the hard RT, not the damage.

Triple spells, get some!

>incant 717
You trace an intricate sign that contorts in the air while forcefully invoking Evil Eye...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a triton radical.
You stare at a triton radical.
The dull golden nimbus surrounding a triton radical suddenly begins to glow brightly.
CS: +542 - TD: +420 + CvA: +25 + d100: +65 == +212
Warding failed!
The triton radical looks at you in utter terror!
The triton radical drops its bronze scaling fork.
The triton radical lets out a blood curdling scream!
The triton radical collapses, gurgling once with a wrathful look on his face before expiring.
The dully illuminated mantle protecting a triton radical begins to falter, then completely fades away.
A white glow rushes away from a triton radical.
The dull golden nimbus fades from around a triton radical.
The brilliant aura fades away from a triton radical.
The very powerful look leaves a triton radical.
The white light leaves a triton radical.
A triton radical seems slightly different.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

[Asha]

Alright, guaranteed stop a triton defender from maneuvering against you in one spell without using 711.
Eat charge bitch!

[whiteflash]

Alright, guaranteed stop a triton defender from maneuvering against you in one spell without using 711.
Eat charge bitch!

Prep 720...

[Rallorick]

well, I don't really need to reroll him as another profession, because I have other characters... he was a lot of work, but all the work was done in the late 90's - he was already 28-29 when I re-activated the account.

I just remember casters being a lot more fun. as best as I can tell, 719 is no longer worth it, so I still use 702 because 705 just seems like it takes as many casts to put something down... Like I said, I'm probably doing it wrong.

[Rallorick]

ok, so if I go standard build - anyone care to tell me how I should fix skills currently to optimize, and offer an associated hunting strategy that might be a bit more fun?

[msconstrew]

ok, so if I go standard build - anyone care to tell me how I should fix skills currently to optimize, and offer an associated hunting strategy that might be a bit more fun?

The only fun I've had hunting lately is kicking things with Voln Fu. Otherwise, it is boring plinking and makes me stabby. I guess that's not too helpful, soooo...

I'm not going to comment on your stats because unless you've got a fixstat, you're stuck with what you've got. As for your skills, it really depends on what you want to be. I never trained Jules to be an "uber sorc" tripled in spells with a super-high CS, and of course that means I make good use of guarded curse to lower critter TDs.

Your current build looks pretty solid. Seems like you've been alternating on the lores and, as you can see from the various comments, people differ on whether they're useful enough to use the TPs. Personally, Jules is 1x in Demon Lores, and has very little Necro Lores because I never saw that as something that she'd use. Now that she's getting closer to her 60s, I'm trying to train in it more for the 711 (Pain) benefits. She uses 740 (Planar Shift) and 725 (Minor Summoning) quite often, so that's why she's trained in the demon lores. If you think you'll use those spells - especially 740 - you should consider training in Demon lores because it will enable you to take additional players grouped with you through an intra-realm portal (you can't take people with you interrealm) and will decrease your chances of failure on an interrealm portal.

Are you having DS trouble? I would probably stop at 430 and get to 120, at least, with the ultimate goal being 130 if you're not in Voln. Keep in mind, however, that additional MnE spells will increase your CS and may make it easier to hunt. It's all a balancing act. I think the typical runestaff build is this:

1x AS, MIU, HP, SMC, EMC, and Perception.

I will note that I doubled in HP for a while because Jules is in Voln and consequently always coming up short on mana. Now I just single her in it, but she still has the extra ranks.

2x SA (or not at all) - useful for Focused Implosion and Focused Limb Disruption, as well as using wizard wands if you run out of mana.

2-3x Spells, with at least on Sorc spell per level.

One thing I note from your training is that you're level 31 and only have 30 Sorc spells. If you get an additional Sorc circle spell, it will increase your CS and also increase the benefit from 712 (Cloak of Shadows).

Once you're done with those skills, then you can pick up lores, swim/climb, FA, PF, and whatever tertiary skills you want for your character.

Also, I don't know where you're hunting right now, but Illistim has an excellent undead hunting area for the late 30s into the mid 40s called the Black Moor (not to be confused with the Black Forest). The boxes are rich and Jules rarely died there. Assuming you can stand Illistim, I highly recommend it to you when you pick up a few levels.

[whiteflash]

ok, so if I go standard build - anyone care to tell me how I should fix skills currently to optimize, and offer an associated hunting strategy that might be a bit more fun?

Your skills look totally fine. Sorcerers just arn't very powerful early on. I remember utilizing 710 and limb disrupt to conserve mana. CoL was the only way I can imagine doing it, props to you all who go voln. It would honestly probably be more 'fun' (in that you can actually crit) using wizard wands. Other than using wands your only choice for more power is more spells, not lores.

Welcome to the state of sorcerery as is currently stands. Many of the more senior sorcerers have long lamented the lack of a critical aspect to most of our magic. We really don't come into parity with other classes in terms of pure killing until level 70 or so. We still lack a suitable mass attack spell 435/135 simply don't cut it. Open implosion is fine and dandy but you go tossing those around and I bet you find yourself in the time out room. Sad but true.

All that being said I enjoy the class a ton, we have a ton of fun and super useful skills. Planar shift rules, animate can be fun, scroll infusion is great, we can kill anything (even vvrael with animates). Masters of the disabling with 703, 706, 708, 709, 410, 435, we own crowd control.

[Asha]

Prep 720...

That isn't guaranteed.

[Fallen]

I would go the WhiteFlash route and go straight CS at lower levels. Don't care about anything but big CS. Blast everything with 702 channeled with an open hand (A runestaff in one, nothing in the other) from offensive. If it is still alive (which it probably will be), follow up with a channeled offensive cast of 705. If you're near 3xing spells it shouldn't be alive after that at lower levels.

Even then you're talking 6 seconds of Hard Rt (3+3), more if you get unlucky. It isn't fun, but it does get better once you find something magical that is weak against 719.

[zhelas]

Or re roll into an empath and play them like a sorcerer. Their lores actually affect their spells. Properly trained for Boneshatter is extremely scary. They can easily generate enough AS to swing a two handed weapon. 3x in Physical fitness. Don't heal your self infront of others and don't offer healing.

If you decided to keep your sorcerer. Realize the limitations within the profession. The others have posted great information.

Personally Zhelas currently is 1.5x in Lores. I made that decision 6 years ago? At that time I was under the delusion that some development would have happened.

I don't animate creatures as much as I use to. I am seriously considering recouping a lot of my lores and either putting them towards a shield brawl build or into spells. Current CS is 515 and I wouldn't mind having more power.

[zhelas]

Heck I even considered changing to that Archer Sorcerer build. I am currently in possession of a nice 6x composite bow.

[subzero]

Sorcerer may be the absolute worst choice for an archer.

Sorcerers are the absolute worst at anything that is not sorcery. If you want flexibility, you don't want to play a sorcerer.

[whiteflash]

Or re roll into an empath and play them like a sorcerer. Their lores actually affect their spells. Properly trained for Boneshatter is extremely scary. They can easily generate enough AS to swing a two handed weapon. 3x in Physical fitness. Don't heal your self infront of others and don't offer healing.

If you decided to keep your sorcerer. Realize the limitations within the profession. The others have posted great information.

Personally Zhelas currently is 1.5x in Lores. I made that decision 6 years ago? At that time I was under the delusion that some development would have happened.

I don't animate creatures as much as I use to. I am seriously considering recouping a lot of my lores and either putting them towards a shield brawl build or into spells. Current CS is 515 and I wouldn't mind having more power.

Zhelas speaks the truths. Empath hybrid is what you want. I feel the worst for all you hard core old school sorcs who are still with us through the horrid, horrid nerf batting.

[whiteflash]

That isn't guaranteed.

Was curious how it actually did, do not read ahead if you don't wanna see random implosions.

The bolded are the same ones. 3/13 instant deaths. 174 ranks of spell aim, 162 sorcerer ranks. At cap. This was every defender I saw in one hunt just to see how often they'd live through one cast. None survived two.

>720 def
You trace an intricate sign that contorts in the air while forcefully invoking Implosion...
Your spell is ready.
>
You gesture at a spectral triton defender.
A void rips open in the area, directly above a spectral triton defender!
Rather abrupt decompression causes a spectral triton defender to explode!
Tiny defender particles disperse rapidly through the area!
Quite severely dead.
Everything in the room seemed to stay in place. The void disappears without further incident.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

You gesture at a spectral triton defender.
A void rips open in the area, directly above a spectral triton defender!
Blast disperses the triton defender into a fine mist!
Everything in the room seemed to stay in place. The void disappears without further incident.
You trace an intricate sign that contorts in the air while forcefully invoking Implosion...
Your spell is ready.
>
You gesture at a spectral triton defender.
A void rips open in the area, directly above a spectral triton defender!
Forceful decompression causes the triton defender to nearly invert!
+284 Hits.

Everything in the room seemed to stay in place. The void disappears without further incident.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>
You gesture at a spectral triton defender.
A void rips open in the area, directly above a spectral triton defender!
The triton defender collapses as she decompresses.
+17 Hits.
The spectral form of the triton defender tenses in agony as she begins to dissolve from the bottom up!

Everything in the room seemed to stay in place. The void disappears without further incident.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

You trace an intricate sign that contorts in the air while forcefully invoking Implosion...
Your spell is ready.
>
You gesture at a spectral triton defender.
A void rips open in the area, directly above a spectral triton defender!
Shock wave of air slams a spectral triton defender into the ground!
+66 Hits.

A number of items ranging from 13 to 19 feet from the void were picked up and sucked toward the blackness, but did no damage. The void disappears without further incident.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

You gesture at a spectral triton defender.
A void rips open in the area, directly above a spectral triton defender!
Rather abrupt decompression causes a spectral triton defender to explode!
Tiny defender particles disperse rapidly through the area!
Quite severely dead.
Everything in the room seemed to stay in place. The void disappears without further incident.

You gesture at a spectral triton defender.
A void rips open in the area, directly above a spectral triton defender!
Blast disperses the triton defender into a fine mist!
Everything in the room seemed to stay in place. The void disappears without further incident.

You gesture at a spectral triton defender.
A void rips open in the area, directly above a spectral triton defender!
Rather abrupt decompression causes a spectral triton defender to explode!
Tiny defender particles disperse rapidly through the area!
Quite severely dead.
A triton radical is not affected by the vacuum of the void.
A single item, about 25 feet from the void, was picked up and sucked toward the blackness. The item did more mutilation to the corpse. The void disappears without further incident.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.


>go arch

>720 def
You trace an intricate sign that contorts in the air while forcefully invoking Implosion...
Your spell is ready.
>
You gesture at a spectral triton defender.
A void rips open in the area, directly above a spectral triton defender!
The triton defender inverts as the intense vacuum rips her to shreds!
Everything in the room seemed to stay in place. The void disappears without further incident.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

>
You gesture at a spectral triton defender.
A void rips open in the area, directly above a spectral triton defender!
The triton defender is twisted violently by the intense power of the void!
+154 Hits.

Everything in the room seemed to stay in place. The void disappears without further incident.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>
You gesture at a spectral triton defender.
A void rips open in the area, directly above a spectral triton defender!
Rather abrupt decompression causes a spectral triton defender to explode!
Tiny defender particles disperse rapidly through the area!
Quite severely dead.
A triton executioner gasps for what little breath it can!
Everything in the room seemed to stay in place. The void disappears without further incident.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

>
You gesture at a spectral triton defender.
A void rips open in the area, directly above a spectral triton defender!
Rather abrupt decompression causes a spectral triton defender to explode!
Tiny defender particles disperse rapidly through the area!
Quite severely dead.
A triton executioner gasps for air and is stunned!
Everything in the room seemed to stay in place. The void disappears without further incident.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>
You gesture at a spectral triton defender.
A void rips open in the area, directly above a spectral triton defender!
Rather abrupt decompression causes a spectral triton defender to explode!
Tiny defender particles disperse rapidly through the area!
Quite severely dead.
A siren gasps for what little breath it can!
Everything in the room seemed to stay in place. The void disappears without further incident.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

You gesture at a spectral triton defender.
A void rips open in the area, directly above a spectral triton defender!
Rather abrupt decompression causes a spectral triton defender to explode!
Tiny defender particles disperse rapidly through the area!
Quite severely dead.
A siren gasps for air and is stunned!
Everything in the room seemed to stay in place. The void disappears without further incident.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

You gesture at a spectral triton defender.
A void rips open in the area, directly above a spectral triton defender!
Rather abrupt decompression causes a spectral triton defender to explode!
Tiny defender particles disperse rapidly through the area!
Quite severely dead.
Everything in the room seemed to stay in place. The void disappears without further incident.
>cast def
You gesture at a spectral triton defender.
A void rips open in the area, directly above a spectral triton defender!
Rather abrupt decompression causes a spectral triton defender to explode!
Tiny defender particles disperse rapidly through the area!
Quite severely dead.
Everything in the room seemed to stay in place. The void disappears without further incident.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

[Rallorick]

Thanks for all the helpful advice everyone. I appreciate it. if I'm hearing right, aside from some minor adjustments, what I've got is pretty standard. I think I'll stick with it.


Zhelas speaks the truths. Empath hybrid is what you want. I feel the worst for all you hard core old school sorcs who are still with us through the horrid, horrid nerf batting.

Yeah, I got a THW empath build - love it, really, but I wanted to give some love to the sorcerer... he used to be fun back in the day. I guess the mechanic changes have just made things a lot harder now.

I guess, to be fair, they were probably too easy back in the day.

[subzero]

I guess, to be fair, they were probably too easy back in the day.

That would have been fine, but now it seems the other professions are in that boat and we've been left behind.