Here's my rogue with his new skills!

[AnticorRifling]

After waiting forever to get rid of a mistake (2x shield) I finally got my rogue how I want him.

Race: Giant Profession: Rogue (not shown)
Gender: Male Age: 50 Expr: 909416 Level: 28
Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 93 (36) ... 93 (36)
Constitution (CON): 72 (21) ... 72 (21)
Dexterity (DEX): 94 (17) ... 94 (17)
Agility (AGI): 91 (15) ... 91 (15)
Discipline (DIS): 79 (14) ... 79 (14)
Aura (AUR): 76 (8) ... 76 (8)
Logic (LOG): 74 (7) ... 74 (7)
Intuition (INT): 74 (12) ... 74 (12)
Wisdom (WIS): 74 (12) ... 74 (12)
Influence (INF): 39 (0) ... 39 (0)
Mana: 24 Silver: 0

Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 132 36
Shield Use.........................| 117 29
Combat Maneuvers...................| 117 29
Edged Weapons......................| 158 58
Ambush.............................| 158 58
Physical Fitness...................| 117 29
Dodging............................| 158 58
Harness Power......................| 30 6
Disarming Traps....................| 158 58
Picking Locks......................| 158 58
Stalking and Hiding................| 158 58
Perception.........................| 158 58
Climbing...........................| 25 5
Swimming...........................| 25 5
Pickpocketing......................| 158 58

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 7

>gld
You are a member of the Rogue Guild.
You are current with your dues.
You currently have 96 ranks out of a possible 96 for your training.

You are a Master of Sweep.

You have 5 ranks in the Subdue skill.
You are not currently training in this skill.

You have 9 ranks in the Cheap Shot skill.
You are not currently training in this skill.

You have 23 ranks in the Rogue Gambits skill.
You are not currently training in this skill.


I still haven't decided if I'm going for brig only or if I'm going to go for torso chain.. I do know that I will have 410 before to long though.

[Wezas]

Nice training. Been a while since I've seen a rogue that is a decent picker, ambusher, swinger, and pickpocket.

The harness power ranks for COL signs?

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Wezas
Nice training. Been a while since I've seen a rogue that is a decent picker, ambusher, swinger, and pickpocket.

The harness power ranks for COL signs?

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 7


Dumbass.

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 7


Dumbass.

Still bitter that you were late to the penis size comment? :lol:

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I like that plan, mediocre at everything... kind of a jack of all trades

[Xcalibur]

Personnaly, I'd drop ambush and perception to 1X, and would get more CM and HP/spells.

More cm, at least.

And no need to go beyond 1X in armor with that dodge ranks, buddy.

You,ll save many points.

[Parkbandit]

I'm going to move some skills around on Falgrin..

Drop the spells from 410 to 407
Drop shield to 1x
Drop armor to hauberk training (What's that.. 120?)
Drop 1 Harness Power rank ( to coincide with drop in spells)
Drop MIU to 0
Drop Arcane to 0

Put it all into CM... not sure what skill.. I have shadow mastery and garotte.. (Hamstring is useless, so probably dirt kick)

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Xcalibur
Personnaly, I'd drop ambush and perception to 1X, and would get more CM and HP/spells.

More cm, at least.

And no need to go beyond 1X in armor with that dodge ranks, buddy.

You,ll save many points.

What does ambush do now? Doesn't increase the parry defense of the target?

What's the benefit of 2x vs 1x?

And if you want to get into heavier armor quicker.. you need to 2x armor. Dodging won't save you any roundtime you incur from the armor penalty.

[Hulkein]

Pretty good.. I am sort of the same, except dropped the picking to get ewave and brills.

-------

(at level 42), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 143 43
Shield Use.........................| 143 43
Combat Maneuvers...................| 150 50
Edged Weapons......................| 186 86
Ambush.............................| 186 86
Physical Fitness...................| 143 43
Dodging............................| 186 86
Magic Item Use.....................| 78 17
Harness Power......................| 78 17
Stalking and Hiding................| 186 86
Perception.........................| 143 43
Climbing...........................| 78 17
Swimming...........................| 78 17
Pickpocketing......................| 186 86

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 14

[Xcalibur]

With diminushing returns, I can only imagine that the benefict aren't that good for the cost.

Wasn'T someone here that mentionned that hiding with anything over brig WILL be close to impossible? And with 2X, you were around at 70% in gs3, I can only imagine it worse, no?

Anticor and I were almost the same maker of characters, brute force over finess.

And anticor, raise those damn pt, you need more to get more redux/stamina;)

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Xcalibur
With diminushing returns, I can only imagine that the benefict aren't that good for the cost.

Wasn'T someone here that mentionned that hiding with anything over brig WILL be close to impossible? And with 2X, you were around at 70% in gs3, I can only imagine it worse, no?

Anticor and I were almost the same maker of characters, brute force over finess.

And anticor, raise those damn pt, you need more to get more redux/stamina;)

The armor 'enhancement' hasn't been loaded yet.. so who knows. Currently, I can effectively hide with 2x in hauberk. A claim that anyone who wishes to hunt by hiding/ambushing will be forced into brig though is going around. We'll see (I'll save my next fixstats for that change)

[Trinitis]

Yes, that is the info passed on by simu. They are making it impossible to hide in any armor over brig.

Their reasoning? Metal armors make lots of noise on movements. So hiding and sneaking in platemail is just dumb.

Also. Why any AMBUSHER would drop to 1x Ambush, I have NO idea. Ambush is the key to your DS pushdown. Why the HELL would you loose trainings in that?

If your going to drop anything, I'd drop down to 30 ranks of armor. Might as well get used to brig as your max now.

Also, personally I'd stick with just 7 spells, but thats because I'm a theif-bastard and like to steal peoples shit. Any spells over that is worthless to me. ;)

[Wezas]

Originally posted by LordAdredrinIf your going to drop anything, I'd drop down to 30 ranks of armor. Might as well get used to brig as your max now.


Agreed, though a rogue may want more armor ranks to remove magic hinderance (and because it's a cheap redux skill)

[Xcalibur]

2X cm 1X ambush

or

1X cm 2X ambush?

With combat manoeuvers, I'd take 2X cm (did before, and it was still a piece of cake)

[TheEschaton]

Combat maneuvers aren't so great as to necessitate 2x in them.


2x ambush is almost Scripture among rogues. Hell, I recommend 2x ambush for RANGERS, and it's much more expensive for them.

-TheE-

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by Xcalibur
2X cm 1X ambush

or

1X cm 2X ambush?

With combat manoeuvers, I'd take 2X cm (did before, and it was still a piece of cake)

OK, you do that X. But don't come bitching to me when you get to higher levels and can't hit the critters hard enough to do anything.

DS pushdown is a rogues best skill. Yay, you can garrote! Woopie-Doo. I sure don't see people doing it hunting, its not viable to do so without a shield..and you can't do it with a shield.


Oh yah, What about shield charge, head butt, Hamstring, Dirt Kick, Sweep, etc etc?

Who cares. If your rogue can kill with simply 2x ambush, 2x edged, and a dagger..what the hell you need those for? Those are all flash and Nifty effects.

[AnticorRifling]

I was going for 45 ranks in armor because I thought that was what was needed for man penalty of brig.

1x PT is fine for me now, I don't get hit so it doesn't matter and I have enough stamina to sweep while hunting. With 403 and 404 and 2x picking skills he's a very good picker but not the best.

1x CM 2x ambush is the way to go, you need that DS pushdown as a rogue.

He doesn't need 2x CM for the high AS he has giant ST bonus, COL signs, and a +38 falchion.

[Fengus]

Originally posted by Wezas
Nice training. Been a while since I've seen a rogue that is a decent picker, ambusher, swinger, and pickpocket.


Uhh thats the typical 2xing OHE rogue training, nothing special. Too boring for this rogue however.

[Fengus]

Originally posted by LordAdredrin
Also. Why any AMBUSHER would drop to 1x Ambush, I have NO idea. Ambush is the key to your DS pushdown. Why the HELL would you loose trainings in that?


Because 1x still effectively produces pushdown when attacking from hiding? Duh!

[AnticorRifling]

Originally posted by Fengus

Originally posted by Wezas
Nice training. Been a while since I've seen a rogue that is a decent picker, ambusher, swinger, and pickpocket.


Uhh thats the typical 2xing OHE rogue training, nothing special. Too boring for this rogue however.

I didn't think the typical 2x ohe rogue went for 410.

[TheEschaton]

A 410 rogue is awesome. I had one, once, but then the lack of redux/high enough gear to combat lack of redux pushed me to go a more physical route. And, harness power came, and I didn't get the automatic 3 mana per train, which crushed me.

-TheE-

[AnticorRifling]

Originally posted by TheEschaton
A 410 rogue is awesome. I had one, once, but then the lack of redux/high enough gear to combat lack of redux pushed me to go a more physical route. And, harness power came, and I didn't get the automatic 3 mana per train, which crushed me.

-TheE-

7x brig, 7x shield, 8x falchion. Gear should make up for the lack of redux and besides he won't see higher than lvl 40-50.

[Edaarin]

>inf
Name: Edaarin Ariter Race: Human Profession: Rogue (not shown)
Gender: Male Age: 34 Expr: 4743059 Level: 73
Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 98 (29) ... 98 (29)
Constitution (CON): 93 (21) ... 93 (21)
Dexterity (DEX): 100 (25) ... 100 (25)
Agility (AGI): 100 (25) ... 100 (25)
Discipline (DIS): 93 (21) ... 93 (21)
Aura (AUR): 96 (23) ... 96 (23)
Logic (LOG): 93 (26) ... 93 (26)
Intuition (INT): 95 (27) ... 95 (27)
Wisdom (WIS): 70 (10) ... 70 (10)
Influence (INF): 56 (3) ... 56 (3)
Mana: 100 Silver: 43

>ski
Edaarin (at level 73), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 230 130
Shield Use.........................| 175 75
Combat Maneuvers...................| 211 111
Edged Weapons......................| 250 150
Ambush.............................| 250 150
Physical Fitness...................| 175 75
Dodging............................| 250 150
Harness Power......................| 122 31
Disarming Traps....................| 250 150
Picking Locks......................| 250 150
Stalking and Hiding................| 250 150
Perception.........................| 225 125
Climbing...........................| 105 25
Swimming...........................| 90 20

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 10
Training Points: 0 Phy 8 Mnt (78 Mnt converted to Phy)

I've fiddled around with pretty much every single training path, except for polearms, including brawling with Fu, ranged, two weapon combat, two katars, brawling with ranged, edged with ranged, and spells. I came to the conclusion that ranged sucks, brawling sucks, two handed weapons were overkill, and two weapon combat is more than overkill.

What I'm probably going to do when the hiding mechs roll in is drop armor to 45 (for brig), and stick the extra TP's into bumping PT to 2x to compensate for the lighter armor. As for combat maneuvers, I have 5 ranks of garrote/shadow mastery (indispensable in the rift)/quickstrike, and 4 ranks of dirt kick so I can pick fights with people when I'm bored.

[Edaarin]

Forgot to add that when I was testing how much ambush you need to get the full benefits of the stance pushdown, I found that 1.5x training was completely sufficient to uphunt with ambushing. I bumped it to 2x because it maximizes garrote skill

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by AnticorRifling

Originally posted by TheEschaton
A 410 rogue is awesome. I had one, once, but then the lack of redux/high enough gear to combat lack of redux pushed me to go a more physical route. And, harness power came, and I didn't get the automatic 3 mana per train, which crushed me.

-TheE-

7x brig, 7x shield, 8x falchion. Gear should make up for the lack of redux and besides he won't see higher than lvl 40-50.

I have no problem hunting with spells up to 414 with nothing but 4x brig, 6x falchion, and 5x shield. You'll have zero problem even once you get to around 50.

[Edited on 5-12-2004 by Hulkein]

[Lord Deprav]

I don't understand why you would ever have any types of trouble hunting when your in your 50's. I have never had a character get that big, but as a rogue I have always been able to hunt pretty well above my level. If your trained well now in dodging, edge, cm, shield, ambush and hiding, those primary skills will always put you higher than other professions. There cheap. Redux I have always found are kind of a pointless ability if your well trained in armor. Haubrek has always protected me enough. And if your having a massive problem because of your DS, then go ahead and train till you have 103 in spiritual and E3 in minor. Thats plus 60 ds in those spells alone. Not to mention if yah save up and get a 6x shield and some 5x armor...not many creatures should be able to hit you even if you do have to do a little stance dancing. And the maneuvers? Well you can always double in cm and triple in dodging which should boost up your ability enough. Spells as a rogue are fun. I probaly will be training to have e-wave.

Deprav
Why can't someone else pick for me?

[AnticorRifling]

Originally posted by Lord Deprav
Not to mention if yah save up and get a 6x shield and some 5x armor...not many creatures should be able to hit you even if you do have to do a little stance dancing.


7x brig, 7x shield, 8x fal.

And where in the hell have you been? Haven't heard from you in awhile.

[Lord Deprav]

::Laughs::

Just started playing a little bit sunday. Probaly going to play through summer till school starts. Had to find something else to do. Can't just drink white russians and bowl all day anymore.

Deprav

[Gan]

This is Ganalon's skill training. I've dumped the boxpicking and gone pure hunter... My boxes are picked by a better/older picker than I am/could be anyways.
_________________________________

Ganalon (at level 58), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 140 40
Shield Use.........................| 220 120
Combat Maneuvers...................| 160 60
Edged Weapons......................| 220 120
Ranged Weapons.....................| 220 120
Ambush.............................| 220 120
Physical Fitness...................| 158 58
Dodging............................| 187 87
Magic Item Use.....................| 58 12
Harness Power......................| 20 4
Stalking and Hiding................| 280 180
Perception.........................| 280 180
Climbing...........................| 130 35
Swimming...........................| 50 10
Pickpocketing......................| 220 120

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 2

_________________________________

I tried the 1x shield route and got tired of getting my arse handed to me when I hunted with more than one target in the room since metal armor isn't the optimal armor anymore (I now use FGB). The archery allows firing from the shadows and, with targets that aren't impervious to arrows, allows me to hunt up a little. Ganalon can hunt the Blighted Forest with ease, Mages with a ~70% survival rate, and can hunt Stronghold at an ~80% survival rate... (would be higher if the damn things weren't made of stone). This is with a 6x shield, a 6x light crossbow, and 5x blades.

[AnticorRifling]

I like that training but I kind of like being able to sit around in pick from time to time.

I'd hope at 58 you can hunt the blighted forest with ease.... At 51 Anticor owns that forest.

[Anebriated]

I will be making my way over to the forest in a few trains. Im 44 now, i figure by 48 i should be able to handle them on my own.

[Lord Deprav]

Ganalon I think your character in all honesty is one of the most amazingly trained. I am very impressed by your skills. I do not have enough trainin points to get where your at. Did you train in ranged weapons since train 1? I think he is totally sweet. I think I do want to aim more spells, but i was just wondering about your ranged weapons.

Deprav

[Lord Deprav]

Heres my stats:

(at level 18), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 120 30
Shield Use.........................| 86 19
Combat Maneuvers...................| 140 40
Edged Weapons......................| 140 40
Ambush.............................| 140 40
Physical Fitness...................| 86 19
Dodging............................| 136 38
Harness Power......................| 25 5
Stalking and Hiding................| 140 40
Perception.........................| 58 12
Climbing...........................| 25 5
Pickpocketing......................| 140 40

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 3


Race: Giant Profession: Rogue (not shown)
Gender: Male Age: 20 Expr: 395270 Level: 18
Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 96 (38) ... 96 (38)
Constitution (CON): 38 (4) ... 38 (4)
Dexterity (DEX): 98 (19) ... 98 (19)
Agility (AGI): 100 (20) ... 100 (20)
Discipline (DIS): 76 (13) ... 76 (13)
Aura (AUR): 93 (16) ... 93 (16)
Logic (LOG): 76 (8) ... 76 (8)
Intuition (INT): 64 (7) ... 64 (7)
Wisdom (WIS): 62 (6) ... 62 (6)
Influence (INF): 34 (-3) ... 34 (-3)


how do those look? I haven't been in the game for a while so I was just glancing at what others had although most didnt have anything near my age.

Deprav

[Gan]

Thanks Deprav. I'm really enjoying how the training as added to Ganalon's effectiveness in the field as well as his RP.

Ganalon did not grow up this way though, he spent the first 50 trainings as a balanced picker/blade swinger. He's always been able to hunt over his level and prior to the armor changes in GS4 he's worn either half plate or metal breastplate after his 38th training. I took on the archery idea on rethinking his whole place in the lands with the new re-allocation options given to him last Fall. I've always wanted to be able to fire an arrow or bolt from hiding and not being seen. I witnessed that once when Ganalon was very young and hunting salamanders under the well in the landing and thought it was so cool. I've experimented with both heavy and light crossbows since they give a huge bonus when firing from kneeling (gambits help manuever to kneel and standing while remining hidden) and found that I like the lesser rt of the light crossbow. The only downside to learning ranged is that because of the cost I had to forsake box picking which limits availability to the rogue guild in Illistim... If I did not have a master picker in the family I probably would have kept Ganalon as a balanced picker and blade swinger.

Your training looks good, only thing I would try to tweak at your training level is to add more perception... but thats because I just like seeing everything thats going on around me.

[Lord Deprav]

Thanks. Yes actually when I came back I had double in perception almost every level. Although after deciding that my box pickin skills would never meet anyone elses since I was only single trainin in it, I just totally dropped it and decided to focus on other skills. I like hunting quite a bit in Solhaven and River's Rest. Which is kinda a downer because I have to find someone to pick my boxes. I am having round 20k runs so giving up a couple k doesn't hurt so much. I totally forgot about the bonus yah get when kneeling. That even makes your skills much better. My perception may go back up, but I decided since I have the grace period to try and see how other skills work. Especially spell training. I am thinkin I might use e-wave to hunt somewhat when I get older. What do you currently hunt if you don't mind me askin? I like to get ideas and try different things with my character as he gets older. Exploring is a big part of the fun. Also me not being a picker supports me somewhat in RP. I claim I am not a Rogue...Rogue have been given such a bad name for a while that my character will not admit it his profession to anyone. He claims that an elder that he encountered years ago taught him the tongue of the rogue guild which I have lots of fun with especially when someone is picking for me.

Deprav

[Gan]

If you really want to throw folks off, get a warrior guild tattoo next time the tattoo'ist comes to town. I knew a wizard once who had one on his arm, was a good friend of mine and I thought it hillarious.

Right now Ganalon hunts Stronghold when he's being played since duties call for him to be in the landing area. As soon as he heads back home to Teras it will be Mages for him again.

If you are thinking about going ranged, you'll want all the perception you can muster since it lends to accuracy when firing arrows or bolts at specific body parts like eyes.

As far as hunting Solhaven, I've spent countless hours hunting everything from cyclops, wights/woodsmen, anything on the Lake and the Valley. I moved away after I overran the Valley (and lost a veniom hilted fal to a biting coyote late one night). After that I spent some time in Illistim and Vaalor hunting Kiramon, Gyldamar Forest, the Bog in Vaalor, Teorain Valley, and lastly the Blighted Forest (would have tried Mel's Tower (Labryinth) but Ganny's not quite old enough to make it through the puzzle successfully.

Either way, whatever you decide to hunt you'll have a blast hunting your rogue, I know I have.

[Edaarin]

You've got 87 ranks in Dodging, which means you're 33 away from being doubled for your level. You would see a pretty good increase if you ditched 60 ranks of shield, freeing up 480 PTP's and stuck it into 33 ranks of dodge, which would cost you 132 PTP's and 66 MTP's, or 264 PTP's. That would leave you with 216 leftover PTP's which you can either use to get more CM's or you could almost get 2 more spells with it.

As an archer, AS shouldn't be much of a problem so you might want to consider getting 102 for the extra DS boost if you still think it's a problem. Or you could put those two spells into Elemental and get 404, which helps with aiming a LOT (for myself when I tested it, having 2x percep and 404 up I very rarely ever missed hitting an eye).

Anyway, seriously consider ditching 2x shield, put yourself up to 2x dodge, and use a buckler or other small shield. The difference between 1x shield and 2x shield is seriously not as significant as you might think. I think it's something like 20-25 DS at my level.

[Edaarin]

This was how I had Edaarin trained (I *think*) when I was doing ranged/voln fu. It was fun, but I forgot how much I hated Voln so I switched back to regular edged with my fixskills. I'm probably about twice as effective with edged and COL than I was with two weapon types and Voln, although with my current training I can't kill Tsin in less than 20 seconds anymore.

| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 170 70
Shield Use.........................| 177 77
Combat Maneuvers...................| 200 100
Brawling Weapons......................| 254 154
Ranged Weapons......................| 254 154
Ambush.............................| 254 154
Physical Fitness...................| 177 77
Dodging............................| 254 154
Harness Power......................| 123 31
Disarming Traps....................| 254 154
Picking Locks......................| 254 154
Stalking and Hiding................| 254 154
Perception.........................| 254 154
Climbing...........................| 120 30
Swimming...........................| 90 20

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 10

[Gan]

I wonder how the DS pushdown when fighting in multiple critter rooms (swarms even) will affect the training path of 1x shield vs. 2x shield rogues...

[Chadj]

Originally posted by TheEschaton
Combat maneuvers aren't so great as to necessitate 2x in them.


2x ambush is almost Scripture among rogues. Hell, I recommend 2x ambush for RANGERS, and it's much more expensive for them.

-TheE-

almost all my rangers have 2xed in ambush. It's worth it.