Brawl/Shield

[msconstrew]

So I converted to a brawl/shield build a while ago, and I'm currently using a 4x tower shield. I wondered if someone who's familiar with the build would take a look at the training I've got and tell me if it looks like it needs to be changed? I haven't had much luck finding other Sorcerers with this build (though Evarin, are you still brawl/shield?) and I'm just looking for a bit of feedback.

(at level 56), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 40 8
Shield Use.........................| 157 57
Brawling...........................| 157 57
Physical Fitness...................| 102 24
Arcane Symbols.....................| 111 27
Magic Item Use.....................| 111 27
Spell Aiming.......................| 214 114
Harness Power......................| 171 71
Elemental Mana Control.............| 148 48
Spirit Mana Control................| 148 48
Spiritual Lore - Summoning.........| 120 30
Sorcerous Lore - Demonology........| 157 57
Sorcerous Lore - Necromancy........| 10 2
Perception.........................| 157 57
Climbing...........................| 90 20
Swimming...........................| 90 20

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 33

Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 25

Spell Lists
Sorcerer...........................| 57

Looking at this, I'm wondering whether I need to divert TPs to AS, MIU, EMC and/or SMC. I know that adding to EMC/SMC will increase my mana return, so I would like to increase those to at least 1x in the future. Otherwise, I don't generally use imbeddibles at this point.

Thanks for any feedback!

A.

[rolfard]

would say at this point turn brawling into fitness unless you voln brawl

[whiteflash]

Looking at this, I'm wondering whether I need to divert TPs to AS, MIU, EMC and/or SMC. I know that adding to EMC/SMC will increase my mana return, so I would like to increase those to at least 1x in the future. Otherwise, I don't generally use imbeddibles at this point.

Thanks for any feedback!

A.

I use a shield build post cap but have zero brawling training (or maybe one rank with a random enhancive). What you have looks pretty straight forward and if you are hunting well and enjoying your char then I do not suggest you change anything besides getting a higher enchant shield (tower definitely the way forward for pures with no dodge in their future).

The extra AS/MIU/MCs I would NOT recommend. Going to 1x MCs will only gain you two manna on/off node per pulse. If you are not using scrolls or magic items, there is no point in getting more AS/MIU since you do not use a runestaff.

I'm more of a min/maxer and I would guess that your casting strength is barely able to hit like level things 100% of the time. I fluctuated on lore depending on what I was hunting and found necro/pain track to be very helpful at certain points, though not the best way at all points or post cap (for my preferred hunting style). You have a ton of points in auxiliary skills which you can shift if you so choose. I would make it a goal of getting 20 spells above level in sorcerer base, gaining 15 CS. You can also catch up to 2/3 level in both minor spirit and minor elemental. Go for elemental if you want greater CS or spiritual for more DS, though the most CS gains can be had from simply going for sorc ranks. It is totally boring but definitely the easiest way to hunt.

At cap and 101 ranks shield I only hunt self cast (CoL, no walls up, statue for scatter/bandits) with 8x armor/10x greatshield and have no issues at all with anything in the realms hitting me with their AS. I almost always die from the maneuver/dispel combo, at which point DS does become low! Getting 101 brawling ranks would add only 23 DS in offensive and 115 DS in guarded, at the cost of 1010 PTPs and 202 MTPs, pretty steep in my book since guarded DS is almost never an issue.

A bit of random babbling, hope it answers some of your questions anyhow.

[msconstrew]

would say at this point turn brawling into fitness unless you voln brawl

I do Voln brawl.

[Fallen]

Your build is very similar to mine. As to the issue of brawling, yes it is expensive, but it does yield DS in exchange for no upkeep. It also isn't stripped away like spell DS can be. I also like to use brawling weapons for their enhancive benefits. On top of that, I dislike being vulnerable to Voln-Fu in CvC, which brawl training mitigates.

[msconstrew]

Your build is very similar to mine. As to the issue of brawling, yes it is expensive, but it does yield DS in exchange for no upkeep. It also isn't stripped away like spell DS can be. I also like to use brawling weapons for their enhancive benefits. On top of that, I dislike being vulnerable to Voln-Fu in CvC, which brawl training mitigates.

I think the reason to do brawl/shield, over just plain shield, is so that you still retain some DS when you're down due to some creature's maneuver. So I agree with you there, Evarin.

As for CvC, I don't think I've ever killed anyone or been killed by anyone (note: this is not an invitation to rectify that situation!), so I never really thought about it. But it's fun to be able to kick things to death as an alternative to inc 715, inc 702 until dead.

I wasn't aware that using brawling weapons would yield additional DS (though it makes sense). Right now I'm just doing open-handed casting with a shield in the left hand and it's working out. But I will pick something up and see how it affects her my DS. Any suggestions or preferences from your end?

Evarin - have you been able to triple often? I think I might make it work next training since I had a few leftover TPs this time around.

[whiteflash]

Your build is very similar to mine. As to the issue of brawling, yes it is expensive, but it does yield DS in exchange for no upkeep. It also isn't stripped away like spell DS can be. I also like to use brawling weapons for their enhancive benefits. On top of that, I dislike being vulnerable to Voln-Fu in CvC, which brawl training mitigates.

No disrespect to the brawling skill at all, it is actually something I plan on maximizing after my two current post cap goals (barring GMs making bare handed parry go away, boo disarm). I just choose to have what amounts to a bit over 1m xp somewhere else for the time being. To the OP, more the point of my post was there is not much of a need to 1x those other magical skills given your current build.

[msconstrew]

I'm more of a min/maxer and I would guess that your casting strength is barely able to hit like level things 100% of the time. . . You have a ton of points in auxiliary skills which you can shift if you so choose. I would make it a goal of getting 20 spells above level in sorcerer base, gaining 15 CS. You can also catch up to 2/3 level in both minor spirit and minor elemental. Go for elemental if you want greater CS or spiritual for more DS, though the most CS gains can be had from simply going for sorc ranks. It is totally boring but definitely the easiest way to hunt.

You are definitely right about the CS; I generally use guarded curse to lower the TD down into my casting range. At level 56, I think her CS (with enhancives) is 294 or 295. It could definitely be higher if I was able to triple more often.

I take your point about the TPs. It's funny, though, that she seems to get hit a lot more often than I think is acceptable with just self-cast and Voln, so she may need that DS. Right now she's hunting Bonespear because it's virtually impossible for her to die there, but soon it won't be so easy to fry and then I'll have to move her to RR (she follows like-level undead because she's in Voln) or to Teras for wind wraiths.

[Fallen]

I am sitting on about 15-16 million experience right now, so I honestly can't compare my build to yours. At level 56, I definitely was not tripling. My points were extremely tight.

I think I 2xed spells, 1xed Brawl and shield, 2xed spell aim, .5x both mana controls (Though now it would be better to have one above the other for the extra mana returns), 1x HP, .5xed MIU, and 1xed Arcane symbols. I trained up to 50 ranks of necro lore first by 1xing, then brought my Demonology up afterwards by 1xing. 1x perception. I picked up armor, Physical Fitness, swimming and climbing as I had the points.

Everything else was fairly bare bones. Once I started getting into the higher levels, I devoted my points towards summoning lore, working towards 1x MIU and 2x Arcane symbols, etc. It wasn't until cap that I ever went much above 2x spells, and even now I don't have a full 3x spells. It just seems like a waste of points. I DO always wear maxed out Aura and Wisdom enhancives to boost my CS.

The question is, what would you do with those points in brawling if you didn't use the skill? Dump it into spells? push your MIU/Arcane Symbols up? If you think you can get better use out of something as often as you would use the DS from brawling, go for it. Otherwise, the points will come. Stay the course.

[Morph]

ill sell you a 10x tower shield for 34mil if you need more ds :)

[Fallen]

Can't beat 10x towers.

[msconstrew]

ill sell you a 10x tower shield for 34mil if you need more ds :)

You're all heart, Morph. ;) Why don't you LEND the pretty lady a 10x tower shield?

[Riltus]

I wasn't aware that using brawling weapons would yield additional DS (though it makes sense). Right now I'm just doing open-handed casting with a shield in the left hand and it's working out. But I will pick something up and see how it affects her my DS. Any suggestions or preferences from your end?

You'll gain a small amount of DS from the weapon enchant bonus. A +20 weapon will provide a bonus of +2 in stance OFF and +7 in stance DEF. Probably more important than the DS increase is the ability to outright parry attacks. This is not possible with brawl and an empty right hand. You could, as Fallen stated, also take advantage of a weapon with enhancive properties. Although you'll most likely cast with an empty right hand, it is still nice to have a weapon available when it is situationally beneficial.

Mark

[whiteflash]

You are definitely right about the CS; I generally use guarded curse to lower the TD down into my casting range. At level 56, I think her CS (with enhancives) is 294 or 295. It could definitely be higher if I was able to triple more often.

I take your point about the TPs. It's funny, though, that she seems to get hit a lot more often than I think is acceptable with just self-cast and Voln, so she may need that DS. Right now she's hunting Bonespear because it's virtually impossible for her to die there, but soon it won't be so easy to fry and then I'll have to move her to RR (she follows like-level undead because she's in Voln) or to Teras for wind wraiths.

Without outside magic from the wizard/ranger circles and without high enchant gear I think you will continue to see yourself in the range of critter attacks for a long while. The most DS gains to be had with your own magic are from the spiritual circle.

I tripled spells all the way to cap (yes beyond boring, I hated it) but with how little return there is for AS/MIU/Lores and the fact that I CAN NOT STAND BEING WARDED LIKE LEVEL RAGE. It was something I had to do for my sanity.

Go to RR though, it's the best place in the game IMO. Wish there was a cap area there and I would never leave. Plenty of time to spend on teras later. Save up for Morph's shield, that's a great price.

[Anebriated]

Go to RR though, it's the best place in the game IMO. Wish there was a cap area there and I would never leave. Plenty of time to spend on teras later. Save up for Morph's shield, that's a great price.

Too bad at 56 they are already past most of the hunting in RR. Theyd get maybe 10 levels out of the town before theyd be looking for a new town/hunting ground.

[Fallen]

Unless you go GoS, which is a shit move for a sorcerer. It CAN be done, but you had better enjoy plinking.

[msconstrew]

Unless you go GoS, which is a shit move for a sorcerer. It CAN be done, but you had better enjoy plinking.

Not gonna happen. I mastered Voln once, it took me forever, and I am never leaving.

[Fallen]

Not gonna happen. I mastered Voln once, it took me forever, and I am never leaving.

Heh, well a GoS sorcerer beats a Voln sorcerer any day of the week, but RP is RP.

[msconstrew]

Heh, well a GoS sorcerer beats a Voln sorcerer any day of the week, but RP is RP.

Exactly. And her RP is actually very well-suited to Voln, even though I didn't plan it that way. She's certainly not suited to that unnamed society.

[Murkshev]

Isn't the cap for critters in RR like level 60? I go there with Ghrayce to help her do bounties from time to time. And all are in the Citadel. Also lawyer cat, you look too smug!

[msconstrew]

Isn't the cap for critters in RR like level 60? I go there with Ghrayce to help her do bounties from time to time. And all are in the Citadel. Also lawyer cat, you look too smug!


Lawyer cat says, "there is no such thing as too smug!"

Also, I am on Teras now, kicking soul golems to death. Most fun I have had in ages!