What should I do? Rogue fail.

[Loagan]

My rogue is lvl 90 and I just want to smash through the last 10 levels with as little difficulty as possible, but I also want to be able to pick my own boxes. Also, I'm having trouble migrating into either OTF or Nelemar (i.e. I'm a death magnet)

I could probably build my rogue to be a plate wearing sword and board swinger, or THW rogue, and forgo being a locksmith for 10 more levels but I'm not really sure I would do that well because of my AS (which is 460 with CMAN Surge running). This is mainly because I switched from CoL to GoS but haven't even gotten past the first rank yet (because grinding a rogue through GoS at high levels is a biatch), thus leaving my AS a little low for my level. Maybe I could switch to wearing plate I could grind out GoS and then go back later... not sure.. ideas??? bleh....

I know a lot of you out there have had to grind a rogue from lvl 90 to 100. What did you all do, and what would you suggest for me.

Here is my current build.


Rakisak (at level 90), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 180 80
Shield Use.........................| 190 90
Combat Maneuvers...................| 267 167
Edged Weapons......................| 280 180
Ambush.............................| 280 180
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 25 5
Physical Fitness...................| 190 90
Dodging............................| 280 180
Arcane Symbols.....................| 145 45
Magic Item Use.....................| 144 44
Harness Power......................| 50 10
Mental Lore - Transformation.......| 5 1
Disarming Traps....................| 280 180
Picking Locks......................| 370 270
Stalking and Hiding................| 279 179
Perception.........................| 190 90
Climbing...........................| 120 30
Swimming...........................| 162 62

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 4

Thanks in advance for advice.

[Asha]

Go THW, max out cman Vanish, you'll need it if you miss.
Also max out shadowmastery so you can hide constantly and sneak from room to room.
Just be careful of sheer fear. I think you can can be hit by defenders with that shit and don't go anywhere near 2nd floor, you'll be on your knees blubbering in no time from fear.

[Buckwheet]

have you taken a look at ranged?

[Asha]

Yeah that'll get you in good stead with picking.

[Loagan]

have you taken a look at ranged?

What kind of archery build are you suggesting I use? I've tried being an open archer but my AS is still lacking, but then again, maybe I'm just noobing it.

[Loagan]

Go THW, max out cman Vanish, you'll need it if you miss.
Also max out shadowmastery so you can hide constantly and sneak from room to room.
Just be careful of sheer fear. I think you can can be hit by defenders with that shit and don't go anywhere near 2nd floor, you'll be on your knees blubbering in no time from fear.

That sounds like a really tempting build. I love using vanish as a sword/board rogue, but what other CMANs (besides Smastery) would you suggest with this build?

At the moment this is what my CMANs look like.

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Shadow Mastery smastery 5
Dirtkick dirtkick 4
Silent Strike silentstrike 3
Combat Mobility mobility 2
Surge of Strength surge 5
Evade Mastery emastery 3
Vanish vanish 3

[Buckwheet]

What kind of archery build are you suggesting I use? I've tried being an open archer but my AS is still lacking, but then again, maybe I'm just noobing it.

Offer BriarFox 1 million silvers to train your rogue in ranged. If you fail with it, you should just close down your account.

[No Gnomes Is Good News]

Offer BriarFox 1 million silvers to train your rogue in ranged. If you fail with it, you should just close down your account.

Hell, you don't even need to pay him.

Archery is easy as pie to train, and it's not like Nuadjha is the forefather of it.

But I also suggest Archery to get those last 10 trains if you so want to do it fast. Get in some plate, open aiming and have at it.

If you have low AS with ranged weapons, then you are clearly doing something wrong since it's rather easy to do so..

[Loagan]

Yeah, I'm digging for his posts on archery at the moment.

[Loagan]

Ding. Found it.

http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?t=49785

[BriarFox]

For a sunfist rogue, I'd do:

2x ranged
2x dodge
2x ambush
3x hiding
2x perception (3x if you must but it's not really worth it)
1x-2x CM: shadow mastery, vanish, and surge
1x-2x armor for at least MBP and armored stealth/evasion.
2x PF
20-30 ranks of HP
Get 406 and 107 if you can. 410 if you have the points to spare.

You can probably get at least 2x lockpicking and disarm with a bit of fiddling.

[Buckwheet]

Hell, you don't even need to pay him.

Archery is easy as pie to train, and it's not like Nuadjha is the forefather of it.

But I also suggest Archery to get those last 10 trains if you so want to do it fast. Get in some plate, open aiming and have at it.

If you have low AS with ranged weapons, then you are clearly doing something wrong since it's rather easy to do so..

/sigh

I thought I put enough sarcasm in there for people to understand the basis of the post was. Talk to BriarFox or look for his posts. He has the most complete information out there.

[No Gnomes Is Good News]

/sigh

I thought I put enough sarcasm in there for people to understand the basis of the post was. Talk to BriarFox or look for his posts. He has the most complete information out there.

You did, I was referring to the fact you don't need to pay him since he ended up writing a guide that pretty much includes everything archery related, minus one thing I still didn't see in it.

[Asha]

WHOOOOOSHHHH

[Loagan]

For a sunfist rogue, I'd do:

2x ranged
2x dodge
2x ambush
3x hiding
2x perception (3x if you must but it's not really worth it)
1x-2x CM: shadow mastery, vanish, and surge
1x-2x armor for at least MBP and armored stealth/evasion.
2x PF
20-30 ranks of HP
Get 406 and 107 if you can. 410 if you have the points to spare.

You can probably get at least 2x lockpicking and disarm with a bit of fiddling.

MBP? Shouldn't I shoot for plate, if only for the sexy redux?



WHOOOOOSHHHH

Hahaha, Drayal :) . Stop trying to kill the thread hooker!!!


Also, If I go this route, I'll need a raise of hands of people who will take me out camping. :medieval:

[Stretch]

If you don't care about RP or anything, go with ranged. Don't bother with hiding, it's a waste of time. It's been awhile since I played a rogue, but I'd go with something like

130 armor
2x ranged
3x dodge
1x CM
1x PF
3x pick
3x disarm
2x perception
40 climb
40 swim
4 spells (404)

That comes out to something like 59/37, so you'll have to trade off some picking, disarm, or dodge. If you are doing OTF, you can probably get by with 2.5x picking

Get surge, the maneuver that lets you auto stand up if you are prone when attacked, and disarm. Also go back to COL until you have enough TPs to get 100 mana and 150 stamina points. Sunfist blows if you don't have enough to sustain sigils.

[m444w]

MBP? Shouldn't I shoot for plate, if only for the sexy redux?




Hahaha, Drayal :) . Stop trying to kill the thread hooker!!!


Also, If I go this route, I'll need a raise of hands of people who will take me out camping. :medieval:

No, with that 3x S/H plan you should stay in light armor and pick up ewave.

prone targets are easier to aim at, and -50 DS = +50 AS

[Victorj]

^That. I used this plan to get through 85-95.

50 armor (chain mail)
2x ranged
60 cm (surge+smastery)
2x ambush
2x dodge
3x pick
3x disarm
3x hide
2x perception
1x pt
35 climb
50 swim
15 arcane
410
rest in harness

[Asha]

For fucks sake don't listen to anyone who says you shouldn't be in plate. It's the lifesaving part of being a square.
Hiding is your best defense against spells so get that too and don't listen to the haters!

[Middian]

^^^^^
Agree with Drayal.

I switched to half-plate and open ranged and LOVE IT! I 3x in hide, for grimswarm raids or if some crazy caster comes at me. Other then that, fast clean kills open ranged in plate.

[Logun]

Damn all you guys now have me thinking about a ranged build :)

[Loagan]

Damn all you guys now have me thinking about a ranged build :)

How is the THW route going for you though?

[m444w]

For fucks sake don't listen to anyone who says you shouldn't be in plate. It's the lifesaving part of being a square.
Hiding is your best defense against spells so get that too and don't listen to the haters!

Don't listen to anyone that says you shouldn't be able to prone a whole room instantly with only soft-RT as a result.


Hiding is your best defense until you get hit with an AoE spell because you can't tell what they are prepping.


And considering nothing can shake RT, ewave is better for this quasi stealthy build than full plate, as you are relying on never being seen and your first strike capabilities. Not getting hit in the open 50 times and surviving, and besides the fact that even nicks handicap archers.

Full plate is good for certain scenarios (the scatter or rift is a good example, since the rooms swap between hidable/nonhidable), however I will take ewave + never being seen + 3x dodge over full plate any day of the week otherwise.

[Loagan]

So I guess it is a matter of opinion then.

Either way I think I'll go with the build that Briar Fox suggested, save that I'll keep my picking and disarming up and forgo 3x hiding and maybe try for 2.5x instead. Then try to get to 3x hiding, and 2x armor (until plate) after I hit cap. I've only 10 levels left anyhow...


For a sunfist rogue, I'd do:

2x ranged
2x dodge
2x ambush
3x hiding
2x perception (3x if you must but it's not really worth it)
1x-2x CM: shadow mastery, vanish, and surge
1x-2x armor for at least MBP and armored stealth/evasion.
2x PF
20-30 ranks of HP
Get 406 and 107 if you can. 410 if you have the points to spare.

You can probably get at least 2x lockpicking and disarm with a bit of fiddling.

[Logun]

How is the THW route going for you though?

Still using my TWC build until fixskills, then its decision time.

[Gibreficul]

I'm late to the party, as usual... but you've got basically the build I had at 90ish. You're more combat, less "picking" than I was. (Full 3x disarm) Yes, it's a grind. You're not broken, it's just one of those transition spots.

Get into MBP. I don't know what armor you're in. As you get ranks, you can add accessories to it, or upgrade completely, but... get into MBP if you aren't already.

Next, weapon selection. OHE/ambush = dagger/handaxe. you're level fucking 90. aim right eye, hide, ambush, loot. Hide = offensive not defensive. Anything perceptive you grab the handaxe, aim for the head, and take a hack at it. If you don't kill it, you probably scrambled its head (and lowered its perception) enough to hide and finish it.

Troll on. :club:

[DoctorUnne]

This is somewhat tangential but the rift is no longer half unable to hide. Those rooms in which you were formerly unable to hide now just have a penalty. Anecdotally that penalty is somewhat severe, but shouldn't be a huge problem for a tripler.

Another place where plate outperforms ewave / light armor is bandits. Often times you will get stuck in a trap or maneuvered before you can do anything. In those situations you're going to die a lot in light armor.

[No Gnomes Is Good News]

This is somewhat tangential but the rift is no longer half unable to hide. Those rooms in which you were formerly unable to hide now just have a penalty. Anecdotally that penalty is somewhat severe, but shouldn't be a huge problem for a tripler.

Another place where plate outperforms ewave / light armor is bandits. Often times you will get stuck in a trap or maneuvered before you can do anything. In those situations you're going to die a lot in light armor.

you can actually avoid traps etc when walking into a room by using I THINK either the PEER verb or SEARCH verb, in conjunction with a direction.

So for example, I think peer west or search west could allow you to see any holes/traps before they trigger.

Least it was something like that if I can remember, to avoid them by moving carefully. I'm not 100% certain however but I swore there was some way to do that

[DoctorUnne]

Interesting. Didn't know about that. Still though, that would be kind of a pain in the ass and time consuming, and it wouldn't protect against initial bandit strikes that incapacitate you.

[phantasm]

search west, you see a trap, go west, 410...problem solved

All the search/peering wouldn't really slow you down since the bandits are on a timer how fast you zoom through rooms makes no difference.

[DoctorUnne]

That's not true. Bandit attacks are sometimes staggered. You can have one leap out and ambush you, search (or cast 410) immediately after and find no others in hiding, and then a couple seconds later another will leap out and ambush you.

[m444w]

That's not true. Bandit attacks are sometimes staggered. You can have one leap out and ambush you, search (or cast 410) immediately after and find no others in hiding, and then a couple seconds later another will leap out and ambush you.

Stalk around the area a bunch real quick with smastery up, then start ewaving random rooms. It will solve most of those problems, as bandit traps don't hit you when you are sneaking.

[Middian]

Does ewave pull you out of hiding?

[m444w]

yes, but you can instantly rehide in the soft rt