Republican Cure for Medicare

[ClydeR]

Republicans have put forth an ingenious plan to fix Medicare. In the 2012 budget, the "Path to Prosperity," they cut off Medicare except for people who are already old, and then require old people to buy insurance policies from private insurance companies. If they can't afford a policy, then the government will subsidize their purchase.

I definitely think requiring old people to buy insurance policies from private companies, instead of having a single payer system like we do now, is the way to go.

There will be a $600 deductible and a 20% copay of up to $6,000 out-of-pocket cost per year.

In addition to the policy required by the new Medicare rules, old people can still buy Medigap policies similar to the ones offered now, but there will be a penalty for cadillac policies.

The Republican plan is truly ingenious, like nothing anybody has ever thought of before.

[KerosineKiller]

$6,000 out-of-pocket cost per year.


That's a ridiculous deductible.

[Parkbandit]

Not sure why they are all worried about it... Obamacare will come around soon and all of our healthcare problems will be over.

[Tgo01]

Not sure why they are all worried about it... Obamacare will come around soon and all of our healthcare problems will be over.

Lube is being given out with every policy now?

[crb]

It is basically the difference between a defined benefit retirement plan and a defined contribution retirement plan, and it is 100% necessary. Long term Medicare is borked and will bankrupt the country. It makes social security look as secure as Fort Knox.

[Back]

The Republican cure for anything is simple.

They like to give your money to Wall Street.

[Parkbandit]

The Republican cure for anything is simple.

They like to give your money to Wall Street.

Inorite!

Although, it's better than your alternative... expecting Social Security to finance your retirement.

[Stry]

GOP and ingenious should never be used in the same sentence, or paragraph. Nor should Democrats or Obama for that matter.

My opinion if they want to fix the medical field/cost/insurance coverage problem?

Start at the root of the issue:

1 -Universities and Medical programs.

Lower or subsidize the cost of going to medical school. Crack down on schools charging medical students hundreds of thousands of dollars. Mitigate those costs.

Result? - Lower student loans for Doctors = Lower medical costs to patients.

2 - Protect Doctors from pointless law suits.

If lawsuits were better regulated and doctors were not forced to pay incredibly high premiums on liability insurance, medical costs would also not be so high.

In the rare case a doctor screws up, the government has laws and regulations in place subsidize a reasonable settlement only AFTER a full investigation.

Result? = Doctors aren't forced to pay rediculous liability insurance premiums. Thus lowering medical costs.

Combined result - Doctors do not need to be paid so much more than the rest of us in order to maintain a mediocre lifestyle.

http://www.the-travel-nurse.com/doctor_best_salaries.html

Just look at those salaries. Imagine if they were cut in half. Now imagine if your doctor's bill was also cut in half. And then your medical insurance cost out of your paycheck was cut in half?

It certainly not a perfect idea, and it won't happen. But I would love to see someone who knows more than me crunch the numbers of how much money could be saved nation wide by a few well placed regulations in the medical field.

In my mind it's a much better start than either party has managed to come up with yet.

[crb]

GOP and ingenious should never be used in the same sentence, or paragraph. Nor should Democrats or Obama for that matter.

My opinion if they want to fix the medical field/cost/insurance coverage problem?

Start at the root of the issue:

1 -Universities and Medical programs.

Lower or subsidize the cost of going to medical school. Crack down on schools charging medical students hundreds of thousands of dollars. Mitigate those costs.

Result? - Lower student loans for Doctors = Lower medical costs to patients.

2 - Protect Doctors from pointless law suits.

If lawsuits were better regulated and doctors were not forced to pay incredibly high premiums on liability insurance, medical costs would also not be so high.

In the rare case a doctor screws up, the government has laws and regulations in place subsidize a reasonable settlement only AFTER a full investigation.

Result? = Doctors aren't forced to pay rediculous liability insurance premiums. Thus lowering medical costs.

Combined result - Doctors do not need to be paid so much more than the rest of us in order to maintain a mediocre lifestyle.

http://www.the-travel-nurse.com/doctor_best_salaries.html

Just look at those salaries. Imagine if they were cut in half. Now imagine if your doctor's bill was also cut in half. And then your medical insurance cost out of your paycheck was cut in half?

It certainly not a perfect idea, and it won't happen. But I would love to see someone who knows more than me crunch the numbers of how much money could be saved nation wide by a few well placed regulations in the medical field.

In my mind it's a much better start than either party has managed to come up with yet.

Point of fact #1: Medical school isn't that expensive when compared to the earnings of a doctor. For a specialist you're talking 1 year of earnings. I've recently paid for someone to go through medical school. It isn't the huge barrier you might think.

Point of fact #2: Your medical bill != the doctor's pay. Cutting the doctor's pay in half would not cut your medal bill in half, not even close. Lets say a doctor sees 1 patient every 10 minutes in an 8 hour day with no breaks or lunch (that would be pretty ridiculous, but lets pretend)? Lets also say that doctor makes $1000 a day, just for easy math. It might even be true for some specialties. That is of course before taxes and possibly before insurance. So that is 48 total patients, for $1000 that day. Each patient is paying the Doctor $20. If you cut the doctor's pay in half, each patient's bill would drop by $10.

A hospital stay can be as much as $1000 a day, making it $990 a day isn't going to make a big dent.

But cutting doctor pay in half is a good way to disincentivize people from joining the profession, which will not increase the supply of doctors (think more waiting, lower care quality) and indeed, you probably want a financial reward for someone to be a doctor, because we want smart people to join that profession, smart, disciplined, diligent people. Take the financial reward away and they'll go be bankers instead. Or more douchebag lawyers. We do not need more lawyers.

The bit about medical malpractice is fine.

[Back]

Inorite!

Although, it's better than your alternative... expecting Social Security to finance your retirement.

Funny. You are the one who brings up Social Security as a comparison. This will flop just like Bush/Chenney’s raid Social Security and give it to the brokers program. Or like Regan/Bush Sr.’s loot the Savings and Loans and give it to the bigger banks. See a pattern?

[~Rocktar~]

Funny. You are the one who brings up Social Security as a comparison. This will flop just like Bush/Chenney’s raid Social Security and give it to the brokers program. Or like Regan/Bush Sr.’s loot the Savings and Loans and give it to the bigger banks. See a pattern?

Of irrational rantings and stupidity? Yes, yes I do, yours.

[Parkbandit]

Funny. You are the one who brings up Social Security as a comparison. This will flop just like Bush/Chenney’s raid Social Security and give it to the brokers program. Or like Regan/Bush Sr.’s loot the Savings and Loans and give it to the bigger banks. See a pattern?

I don't even understand what you are trying to say, let alone seeing a pattern.

I was making fun of your blind hatred for banks and Wallstreet.. nothing more.

Stop being stupid.

[Back]

Wow check out PB following RT’s lead. You guys are so predictable. You know exactly the line of thinking this thread started with.

The republicans have consistently shown that they are more protective of corporate welfare than middle class relief and when confronted with that truth you start name calling. To make things worse you try to convince people that you are some sort of saviour to your own made up fantasy of a problem to justify your greedy cash grab from the less fortunate not-inherited hard working people you ride on the backs of.

[Seran]

Truly what I find laughable about all of the privatization plans is the misconception that these accounts are the safe way to go. They're not.

Anyone who had a 401K knows that within the last few years, your overall net worth plummeted something to the tune of 20-40% depending on your stock to bond ratio. These crashes are cyclical, and on average have been occuring something to the tune of every ten years.

South Park had a great episode parodying the loss of confidence in the economy and investment bankers. When one of the kids goes to open an account with a hundred bucks, the bank. After a long schpeal about the benefits, and about how great of a choice it was the banker says;

"aannd.. it's gone."

This is exactly how privatization will work. Bankers will line their pockets with large bonuses, then run off after having funded all of their cronies. A fit will be thrown, investigations will begin, then get called off, and then the next bunch of crooks will take over.

[Mohrgan]

Point of fact #1: Medical school isn't that expensive when compared to the earnings of a doctor. For a specialist you're talking 1 year of earnings. I've recently paid for someone to go through medical school. It isn't the huge barrier you might think.

Tell that to someone who is about to finish their first year of medical school, paying-in state tuition at a public institution who is, as of the first year, $45,000 in debt. And that same person who will be $180,000 in debt by the time they graduate. That person is me. I'm in med school. I'm racking up giant debts RIGHT NOW and I am on the low end of the spectrum, believe me.

Yes, there are loans in place to the effect that, if you have busted your ass enough to actually get in to med school, there will be a way to fund it (the inequities that lead or hinder one from getting to that point are a whole other topic). But to imply that anyone is going to be able to pay off their loan with "a years pay" is absolutely bullshit. Firstly, straight out of med school, when you're a first year resident, you make shit. And many specialties have long residencies (eight year residency for surgeons for example. 3-4 seems to be the average). During which time, oh boy, you get to rack up 7% interest (twice as high as it was just a few years ago and on the rise) because the credit market is so fucked up that even future doctors with their relative job security can't be trusted (thanks wall street!). Yeah that's only an extra 12.5 thousand dollars a year, but shit, that's just a fraction of what doctors have to spend paying off their exorbitant student loans each year, right? so fuck it! Because you'll be able to spend your entire paycheck solely on loan payments! You won't have house payments or a family or insurance or anything else to pay off...just student loans! One year, easy!

But frankly, the fact that specialists are so highly paid is part of the reason health care costs are so high. Most patients don't need specialist care. GPs are fine. But that's not how our system is set up. And GPs, arguably the most important members of the healthcare profession to incentivize, the ones of which if there were more, and they were used properly would have the biggest effect, are easily at the bottom of the pay scale. Figure that one out. But no, we wouldn't want to do anything to incentivize the wrong thing...



Point of fact #2: Your medical bill != the doctor's pay. Cutting the doctor's pay in half would not cut your medal bill in half, not even close. Lets say a doctor sees 1 patient every 10 minutes in an 8 hour day with no breaks or lunch (that would be pretty ridiculous, but lets pretend)? Lets also say that doctor makes $1000 a day, just for easy math. It might even be true for some specialties. That is of course before taxes and possibly before insurance. So that is 48 total patients, for $1000 that day. Each patient is paying the Doctor $20. If you cut the doctor's pay in half, each patient's bill would drop by $10.

For the record, this is just not at all representative of reality. As if taxes and malpractice insurance are so trivial that you can write them off so quickly (not that I am against the taxes, I'm not, but the fact is, as a variable it is significant and you brush it off). Some private practitioners may be paid by the patient (not that your percentage of the cost argument is anywhere close to real either), but public or academic institution docs are not paid this way, but on salary.




A hospital stay can be as much as $1000 a day, making it $990 a day isn't going to make a big dent.

Yeah, this is just retarded. I would say that you pulled these numbers completely out of your ass, but there has never been anything that's come out of my ass that's been this fucking retarded. Not even after I eat Indian food.


But cutting doctor pay in half is a good way to disincentivize people from joining the profession, which will not increase the supply of doctors (think more waiting, lower care quality) and indeed, you probably want a financial reward for someone to be a doctor, because we want smart people to join that profession, smart, disciplined, diligent people. Take the financial reward away and they'll go be bankers instead. Or more douchebag lawyers. We do not need more lawyers..

What a bunch of bullshit. Does Spain suffer from a lack of excellent doctors because the physician profession gets paid no more than any other regular profession? Or does Spain suffer from a lack of assholes in the medical profession? If you are going in to the medical profession to make money, you should be dissuaded because you're an asshole and you're doing it for the wrong reason. We won't run out of people wanting to be doctors. We'll have more doctors that are motivated by empathy and compassion because they won't have to compete against as many pieces of shit to get in to med school.

I've heard this fucking ridiculous argument so many times and it is just infuriating to hear this argument come from politicians, economists etc...they assume that just because THEY are motivated only by money that everyone else must be too. I'm not saying there aren't plenty of doctors like this. What I'm saying is that they shouldn't be doctors.

[Parkbandit]

Wow check out PB following RT’s lead. You guys are so predictable. You know exactly the line of thinking this thread started with.

The republicans have consistently shown that they are more protective of corporate welfare than middle class relief and when confronted with that truth you start name calling. To make things worse you try to convince people that you are some sort of saviour to your own made up fantasy of a problem to justify your greedy cash grab from the less fortunate not-inherited hard working people you ride on the backs of.

My post has zero to do with any evil Republican agenda you brought up and more about making fun of your illogical hatred of banks and Wallstreet. I don't know how often I have to post this until you understand it... but please, tell us more about how Republicans are for Wallstreet and not for Main Street......

[Parkbandit]

Point of fact #1: Medical school isn't that expensive when compared to the earnings of a doctor. For a specialist you're talking 1 year of earnings. I've recently paid for someone to go through medical school. It isn't the huge barrier you might think.

Point of fact #2: Your medical bill != the doctor's pay. Cutting the doctor's pay in half would not cut your medal bill in half, not even close. Lets say a doctor sees 1 patient every 10 minutes in an 8 hour day with no breaks or lunch (that would be pretty ridiculous, but lets pretend)? Lets also say that doctor makes $1000 a day, just for easy math. It might even be true for some specialties. That is of course before taxes and possibly before insurance. So that is 48 total patients, for $1000 that day. Each patient is paying the Doctor $20. If you cut the doctor's pay in half, each patient's bill would drop by $10.

A hospital stay can be as much as $1000 a day, making it $990 a day isn't going to make a big dent.

But cutting doctor pay in half is a good way to disincentivize people from joining the profession, which will not increase the supply of doctors (think more waiting, lower care quality) and indeed, you probably want a financial reward for someone to be a doctor, because we want smart people to join that profession, smart, disciplined, diligent people. Take the financial reward away and they'll go be bankers instead. Or more douchebag lawyers. We do not need more lawyers.

The bit about medical malpractice is fine.

I had my appendix burst last year. My stay at the hospital was from Friday at 6PM through Sunday at 12:30pm. Total bill was $30,000.

[Back]

My post has zero to do with any evil Republican agenda you brought up and more about making fun of your illogical hatred of banks and Wallstreet. I don't know how often I have to post this until you understand it... but please, tell us more about how Republicans are for Wallstreet and not for Main Street......

Yeah, illogical. I just wrote a bunch of industries on a board and threw a dart at it. It was close between Banks and Chinese toy manufacturers!

Give me a fucking break. I have zero sympathy for corrupt bankers and that you and others do is really whats funny here.

PS. Before you go mouthing off I do own profitable stock, claim capitol gains, and still think the system is fucked.

[Parkbandit]

Yeah, illogical. I just wrote a bunch of industries on a board and threw a dart at it. It was close between Banks and Chinese toy manufacturers!

Give me a fucking break. I have zero sympathy for corrupt bankers and that you and others do is really whats funny here.

LULWHUT? Did you just make the claim that I have sympathy for corrupt bankers? Please.. we already have one WB and that's his schtick. Stick with yours... stupidity.



PS. Before you go mouthing off I do own profitable stock, claim capitol gains, and still think the system is fucked.

Again.. I'm merely going by what you post:



And no, Social Security is not my retirement plan. It, along with hopefully medicare are meant as easing the burden of retirement. I’ve paid into it my whole life, I have paid taxes my whole life, so I expect to see something when I get to my twilight years for it.

Really sounds like a guy with profitable stock portfolio... relying on Social Security and Medicare to ease the burden of retirement...

[Back]

LULWHUT? Did you just make the claim that I have sympathy for corrupt bankers? Please.. we already have one WB and that's his schtick. Stick with yours... stupidity.

Ok ok you got me here. I took some liberty with my reply. Not all banks are evil and not all bankers are corrupt. But even that is a stretch of the imagination. Pretty sure you are playing devil’s advocate here because if not you would be the only person on this planet who hasn’t been pissed off by the system.




Really sounds like a guy with profitable stock portfolio... relying on Social Security and Medicare to ease the burden of retirement...

Its not my fault there is no cure for zero reading comprehension.

[Mohrgan]

Ok ok you got me here. I took some liberty with my reply. Not all banks are evil and not all bankers are corrupt. But even that is a stretch of the imagination. Pretty sure you are playing devil’s advocate here because if not you would be the only person on this planet who hasn’t been pissed off by the system.

See, this is why our side always loses. Intellectual honesty.

Our superior code of ethics is killing the country.

[Parkbandit]

Ok ok you got me here. I took some liberty with my reply. Not all banks are evil and not all bankers are corrupt. But even that is a stretch of the imagination. Pretty sure you are playing devil’s advocate here because if not you would be the only person on this planet who hasn’t been pissed off by the system.

Hyperbole makes you look stupid. I'm certain there are plenty of people "on this planet" that are not pissed off by the system.

And I've posted about my problems with the banking system before.. but that doesn't mean I'll never have a 401K or savings account.... that's just stupid.



Its not my fault there is no cure for zero reading comprehension.

It has little to do with reading comprehension and far more to do with your inability to communicate effectively. You said that SS wasn't your only plan for retirement... that you also will rely on medicare.

Now, had you said "And no, Social Security is not my retirement plan. It, along with hopefully medicare [b]and my other investments[/b[are meant as easing the burden of retirement", I wouldn't be having so many lulz at your expense today.

[Tgo01]

See, this is why our side always loses. Intellectual honesty.

Our superior code of ethics is killing the country.

Is this sarcasm? The lack of italics confuses me :(

[Back]

See, this is why our side always loses. Intellectual honesty.

Our superior code of ethics is killing the country.

Compassion killed the liberal movement... I love it!

One could say that being a democrat means feeling like “were fucked” and trying to do something about it and that being a republican is “winning” no matter how bad the train wreck is.

[Mohrgan]

Is this sarcasm? The lack of italics confuses me :(

It's really more of a wry, jaded cynicism than sarcasm, per se.

[Parkbandit]

Compassion killed the liberal movement... I love it!

One could say that being a democrat means feeling like “were fucked” and trying to do something about it and that being a republican is “winning” no matter how bad the train wreck is.

Weird... that wasn't what I got from your posts just after the 2008 Presidential Election.....

[Stry]

Point of fact #1: Medical school isn't that expensive when compared to the earnings of a doctor. For a specialist you're talking 1 year of earnings. I've recently paid for someone to go through medical school. It isn't the huge barrier you might think.

The bit about medical malpractice is fine.

Appreciate the feedback...

...but if putting someone through medical school isn't that bad, would you mind paying for my Bachelor's degree while you're at it? It was only 20k in loans and it would REALLY help my family out seeing as we're looking to get into a house next year. 20k is nothing compared to medical school, just pocket change?

On average, medical students graduate with about $100,000 in debt.

http://www.studentdoc.com/medical-school-loans.html

I know my ideas would only put a dent in the system, but $30,000 hospital bills are why people can't afford insurance, and why insurance companies can't afford to insure the millions of Americans. The bill then falls to Medicaid/Medicare (Which comes out of our pockets as tax dollars.)

I think you're right though in some regard. There's more that needs to be done than just fixing the medical school field. There needs to be regulations on what hostpitals can charge as well.

$200 for a pack of wetwipes they happened to open during your stay there. They used one, and charge you for the entire pack.
$500 for a needle, also since they had to use the whole pack.
$49 per latex glove.

Bullshit like that. If this were regulated, medical school cost mitigated, malpractice stipulations tightened. Medical costs would then stabalize to something much more reasonable.

I'll say it again. DC needs to start at the root.

Sadly, the government long ago went from actually being productive in any way or using any kind of intelligence and now focus 60%+ of their efforts on lobbying for $$ to stay in office. But then again... that's a whole other issue that's rotten to the root.

[Parkbandit]

See, this is why our side always loses. Intellectual honesty.

Our superior code of ethics is killing the country.

There is nothing intellectual or honest about "your" side.

[Abilene]

$6,000 out-of-pocket cost per year.


That's a ridiculous deductible.

The deductible is $600. That's pretty damn good. My deductible at a fortune 1000 company is $3,000. Max Out of pocket is $12,000.

[Stry]

The deductible is $600. That's pretty damn good. My deductible at a fortune 1000 company is $3,000. Max Out of pocket is $12,000.

These numbers are completely unreasonable for people who make 20-30k a year. (at or below the poverty line) and even painful for people who make 40k or so.

Hence why so many people are uninsured, even when it is offered.

[Abilene]

These numbers are completely unreasonable for people who make 20-30k a year. (at or below the poverty line) and even painful for people who make 40k or so.

Hence why so many people are uninsured, even when it is offered.

I completely agree, I think there's a real problem with insurance costs. I think the answer would be to open it across borders, if they weren't a monopoly in the state they wouldn't be able to gouge everyone.

I'm just saying, $600 for a deductible is not that high compared to all the plans I've seen (in my state anyway), and I imagine since our cost of living is lower than most of the country, $600 is on the lower end.

[Stry]

I completely agree, I think there's a real problem with insurance costs.

Absolutely, see my previous posts for the ideas I've thrown out to reduce medical costs, and in turn lowering insurance costs.

When insurance companies don't have to even out 30,00 - 50,000 bills on a regular basis, then our premiums, co-pays, and yearly out of pocket expenditures will all drop and millions more people can afford insurance, companies can afford to insure their employees and people are taken care of.

Also, the more people who can afford insurance and then actually have it, the lower medical costs become as ER's throughout the country aren't forced to provide 'free' medical care to uninsured people who show up knowing they can't be turned away.

[Mohrgan]

There is nothing intellectual or honest about "your" side.

Is that why you haven't bothered to say a thing about my long post that dismantles the arguments put forward earlier in the thread, and instead only make snide comments to Back and to myself?

Flex that intellect, man, show me you're not just a whiny snot who likes to shit on people.

Contribute an original thought.

My only points in this thread boil down to A) the arguments being put forward are demonstrably wrong and B) you are sort of a punk, and one who has nothing to contribute to a topic of import.

Beyond that, I have to study...so...peace.

[Parkbandit]

Is that why you haven't bothered to say a thing about my long post that dismantles the arguments put forward earlier in the thread, and instead only make snide comments to Back and to myself?

Flex that intellect, man, show me you're not just a whiny snot who likes to shit on people.

Contribute an original thought.

My only points in this thread boil down to A) the arguments being put forward are demonstrably wrong and B) you are sort of a punk, and one who has nothing to contribute to a topic of import.

Beyond that, I have to study...so...peace.

I will be honest, I didn't read your post.. still haven't. But there is no way that "your" side is anymore intellectually honest than the other side. To suggest such a thing is completely ignorant.

Also, calling me a "punk" was funny. Hey, the 1980's called and they want their insult back.

[Mohrgan]

I will be honest, I didn't read your post.. still haven't. But there is no way that "your" side is anymore intellectually honest than the other side. To suggest such a thing is completely ignorant.

Anyone else giggle at the irony of PB calling me "ignorant" when he admits...nay...revels in the fact that he doesn't even know what this thread is about? Really makes his insult to my "side's" and by extention, my intellect all the more poignant, don't you think?

srsly brah...

If I'm so "ignorant" and intellectually dishonest, say something...anything...to prove me wrong, smart guy.



Also, calling me a "punk" was funny. Hey, the 1980's called and they want their insult back.

whatever, punk

[Parkbandit]

Anyone else giggle at the irony of PB calling me "ignorant" when he admits...nay...revels in the fact that he doesn't even know what this thread is about? Really makes his insult to my "side's" and by extention, my intellect all the more poignant, don't you think?

srsly brah...

If I'm so "ignorant" and intellectually dishonest, say something...anything...to prove me wrong, smart guy.

whatever, punk

Wait, show me where I stated that I didn't know what the thread was about? Oh, I didn't. I simply stated that I didn't bother to read YOUR post. Since you weren't the OP, it's pretty stupid to make the leap that you and your opinion is what this thread is about.

Again, to suggest that "your" side is more "intellectually honest" than the other side is ignorant.

PS - it's extension, not extention.

[Mohrgan]

Wait, show me where I stated that I didn't know what the thread was about? Oh, I didn't. I simply stated that I didn't bother to read YOUR post. Since you weren't the OP, it's pretty stupid to make the leap that you and your opinion is what this thread is about.

still waiting for you to demonstrate any knowledge of the topic...

...still waiting...

...still...

...wait...

...ing...


Again, to suggest that "your" side is more "intellectually honest" than the other side is ignorant.

Your ability to filter out the wry, tongue-in-cheek parts and really delve into the substance of an argument is really impressive. Great critical thinking skills. You'll go far.


PS - it's extension, not extention.

whatever, punk

[Back]

This is going around FB today.

Remember when teachers, public employees, Planned Parenthood, NPR and PBS crashed the stock market, wiped out half of our 401Ks, took trillions in TARP money, spilled oil in the Gulf of Mexico, gave themselves billions in bonuses, and paid no taxes? Yeah, me neither.

[crb]

Appreciate the feedback...

...but if putting someone through medical school isn't that bad, would you mind paying for my Bachelor's degree while you're at it? It was only 20k in loans and it would REALLY help my family out seeing as we're looking to get into a house next year. 20k is nothing compared to medical school, just pocket change?

On average, medical students graduate with about $100,000 in debt.

http://www.studentdoc.com/medical-school-loans.html

I know my ideas would only put a dent in the system, but $30,000 hospital bills are why people can't afford insurance, and why insurance companies can't afford to insure the millions of Americans. The bill then falls to Medicaid/Medicare (Which comes out of our pockets as tax dollars.)

I think you're right though in some regard. There's more that needs to be done than just fixing the medical school field. There needs to be regulations on what hostpitals can charge as well.

$200 for a pack of wetwipes they happened to open during your stay there. They used one, and charge you for the entire pack.
$500 for a needle, also since they had to use the whole pack.
$49 per latex glove.

Bullshit like that. If this were regulated, medical school cost mitigated, malpractice stipulations tightened. Medical costs would then stabalize to something much more reasonable.

I'll say it again. DC needs to start at the root.

Sadly, the government long ago went from actually being productive in any way or using any kind of intelligence and now focus 60%+ of their efforts on lobbying for $$ to stay in office. But then again... that's a whole other issue that's rotten to the root.

$100k is actually low for student loans I would say. But still, you're talking about a profession that can easily earn over 200k once they're done with residency.

Your point on hospital bills is well taken too. For the birth of our first kid my wife was billed $20, per pill, for ibuprofen. For the second kid we brought our own. Ask a hospital for an itemized bill, it is ridiculous.

But... get this... the hospital was nonprofit. So it isn't as if they're charging those fees to make a big profit. They just need to charge that to cover all their administrative overhead, waste, and all the regulatory compliance costs, as well as staffing of nurses and below, all the way down.

That is where the meat of the cost is.

As for me paying your $20k loan, sure, but to get the same deal as the other person had you've got to marry me, have sex with me, raise a family with me, and do a little cleaning and laundry. Let me know...

[crb]

This is going around FB today.

Remember when teachers, public employees, Planned Parenthood, NPR and PBS crashed the stock market, wiped out half of our 401Ks, took trillions in TARP money, spilled oil in the Gulf of Mexico, gave themselves billions in bonuses, and paid no taxes? Yeah, me neither.

Fun fact: All the big banks have long since paid back TARP, including the ones coerced into taking it in the first place.

Other fun fact: The cost of pensions for public employees nationwide is measured in trillions. It makes TARP (which was a loan program) look like chump change.

Third fun fact: Organization most likely to permanently profit from TARP: UAW.

[Back]

Fun fact: All the big banks have long since paid back TARP, including the ones coerced into taking it in the first place.

Other fun fact: The cost of pensions for public employees nationwide is measured in trillions. It makes TARP (which was a loan program) look like chump change.

Third fun fact: Organization most likely to permanently profit from TARP: UAW.

Sources?

Look, I like making up facts as much as the next guy but 2/3rds of your post while being true does not negate the fact that its fucked up.

[Parkbandit]

Sources?

Look, I like making up facts as much as the next guy but 2/3rds of your post while being true does not negate the fact that its fucked up.

Which 1/3rd did you believe was untrue? Organization most likely to permanently profit from TARP: UAW ?

[Jarvan]

Appreciate the feedback...

...but if putting someone through medical school isn't that bad, would you mind paying for my Bachelor's degree while you're at it? It was only 20k in loans and it would REALLY help my family out seeing as we're looking to get into a house next year. 20k is nothing compared to medical school, just pocket change?

On average, medical students graduate with about $100,000 in debt.

http://www.studentdoc.com/medical-school-loans.html

I know my ideas would only put a dent in the system, but $30,000 hospital bills are why people can't afford insurance, and why insurance companies can't afford to insure the millions of Americans. The bill then falls to Medicaid/Medicare (Which comes out of our pockets as tax dollars.)

I think you're right though in some regard. There's more that needs to be done than just fixing the medical school field. There needs to be regulations on what hostpitals can charge as well.

$200 for a pack of wetwipes they happened to open during your stay there. They used one, and charge you for the entire pack.
$500 for a needle, also since they had to use the whole pack.
$49 per latex glove.

Bullshit like that. If this were regulated, medical school cost mitigated, malpractice stipulations tightened. Medical costs would then stabalize to something much more reasonable.

I'll say it again. DC needs to start at the root.

Sadly, the government long ago went from actually being productive in any way or using any kind of intelligence and now focus 60%+ of their efforts on lobbying for $$ to stay in office. But then again... that's a whole other issue that's rotten to the root.

Regulating what people can and can't charge isn't exactly a good solution either.

And trust me, I am not defending Hospitals or Dr's that overcharge. I worked for an insurance company, and had to fix, or try to fix some of these stupid bills. Point in case..

Father takes daughter A to hospital A for a tonsillectomy with insurance A. Bill from Hospital 5,000$.

2 years Later, Father takes daughter B to Hospital B for a tonsillectomy ( sucks for him ) with insurance A. Hospital A had been bought out by Hospital B and only [B]CHOICE[/B ]in 75 miles was Hospital B.

Bill from Hospital B 35,000$. Reason. Since they are the ONLY hospital in a 75 mile area, they were able to browbeat the insurance company into signing a contract to pay them 125% of their ASKING price for procedures.

Hospital B is a money grabbing bastard as far as I am concerned, but that doesn't mean anyone should tell them they can only charge such and such for something. Once you start down that path, there is no end. Next thing you have is the government saying a new Ford Focus must be 8,499 so poorer people can buy them, and Cable should only be 9.99 a month. Then you have companies going out of business.

Instead, you need to find a way for other companies to want to build a hospital in that region, to compete with Hospital B.

Also.. allot of Hospitals may pay their Doctors a salary, but those same Dr's still charge the patient when they visit them in their room. Not to mention that Dr's get to decide what you had done. Spent 10 min with him and he basically just looked at your throat? Maybe thats a 95010, but he may bill a 95011 cause it was "complex", whoops.. now it's 110 instead of 40 for that visit.

Frankly the entire system sucks. Which brings me to my solution.

Don't go to the DR.

[Back]

Which 1/3rd did you believe was untrue? Organization most likely to permanently profit from TARP: UAW ?

Durp? Thats possibly the most outlandish bullshit I have ever read on the PC.

[Jarvan]

As for me paying your $20k loan, sure, but to get the same deal as the other person had you've got to marry me, have sex with me, raise a family with me, and do a little cleaning and laundry. Let me know...

Watch it.. he may take you up on that.

[Jarvan]

Durp? Thats possibly the most outlandish bullshit I have ever read on the PC.

I don't know about that Back, since they were pretty much given a major Corporation... for free. Not to mention a significant portion of another Corporation.

Which, now when you think about it.. if Corporations are evil.. and a Union owns a Corporation.. Wouldn't that make the Union evil?

[Parkbandit]

Durp? Thats possibly the most outlandish bullshit I have ever read on the PC.

Really?

Do some reading on the GM bailout.. I agree, it's outlandish.. but it happened.

[Kembal]

I don't know about that Back, since they were pretty much given a major Corporation... for free. Not to mention a significant portion of another Corporation.

Which, now when you think about it.. if Corporations are evil.. and a Union owns a Corporation.. Wouldn't that make the Union evil?

GM and Chrysler did owe billions for the UAW health care trust fund (and maybe pensions, can't recall if the pension got shunted off to the government via the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp.) as per the union contracts, so not exactly free, but still, the senior debt holders should've been first in line.

[crb]

GM and Chrysler did owe billions for the UAW health care trust fund (and maybe pensions, can't recall if the pension got shunted off to the government via the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp.) as per the union contracts, so not exactly free, but still, the senior debt holders should've been first in line.

Exactly, had GM been allowed to go bankrupt, legitimately, the UAW would have been fucked since their claims were junior. Pensions and contracts would have been tore up.

Instead, the Obama administration used political pressure to force a cram down on the senior note holders while making the UAW whole, and to facilitate this they illegally used TARP funds that were never appropriated for use to bail out an automanufacturer.

It was all done to save the UAW, and ironically, for all Obama has been whining about "We want our money back." It is the automakers, not the banks, that are likely to cause the only permanent loss in TARP. The banks all provided a profit, some like GS didn't want to take TARP in the first place, paid it back as soon as Obama let them, with interest, and had been lobbying to be allowed by Obama to pay it back even sooner.

So complaining about the banks visavis TARP really is just a giant strawman.

[ClydeR]

GM and Chrysler did owe billions for the UAW health care trust fund (and maybe pensions, can't recall if the pension got shunted off to the government via the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp.) as per the union contracts, so not exactly free, but still, the senior debt holders should've been first in line.

Are you saying they did something wrong or illegal in the bankruptcy? I thought courts decide who gets paid in a bankruptcy.

[ClydeR]

The banks all provided a profit, some like GS didn't want to take TARP in the first place, paid it back as soon as Obama let them, with interest, and had been lobbying to be allowed by Obama to pay it back even sooner.

Bush refused to allow them to pay it back but Obama allowed it. What was Obama's angle?

[~Rocktar~]

Are you saying they did something wrong or illegal in the bankruptcy? I thought courts decide who gets paid in a bankruptcy.

Yes they did and political pressure was brought to put the UAW at first in line of creditors. It was in the news a good bit.

[Stry]

As for me paying your $20k loan, sure, but to get the same deal as the other person had you've got to marry me, have sex with me, raise a family with me, and do a little cleaning and laundry. Let me know...

:rofl:

I'll pass.