The Supernatural, the Paranormal...your thoughts?

[Weedmage Princess]

So, we're all chatty here at work getting ready to go home and we got on the subject of ghosts. (One lady I work with is from Salem, MA. That's how it started)
Was just wondering what the general consensus is here regarding things of that nature.

[Sweets]

Maybe not in the conventional sense do I believe in ghosts and paranormal. All I know is that I had a roommate in college that had some creepy esp thing.

She had dreams that came true and saw things before they happened. Once I was standing outside our bathroom door and she said she just saw some guy we barely know standing beside me.

Two weeks later we have a party. I come out of the bathroom, she is standing in the hall and that guy is waiting to get into the bathroom.

Creepy gal.

[Miss X]

I really don't know about this subject, Ive never had any experience of it myself but I kind of like to think there is something weird going on out there.

My best friends dad used to own a pub in the town I live in, in one of the rooms a woman was murdered, a long time ago. He swears he once saw her in the room, he said it went cold in there and he saw her face. Hes not really the type to make shit up so I'm inclined to believe him.

My own interest lies in the fact that if we say ghosts/spirits exist, are we confirming there is an afterlife or are these spirits just imprints on the buildings or rooms, or memories or figmants of our imagination or what? Also, if they really do exist, how come not everyone becomes one, where to the rest go?

See, I don't buy the whole "so&so died here and then JoeBob saw their ghost", if that was the case our cities and parts of Europe would be swarming with the damn things!

I do believe in the paranormal, but more as electro-magnetic pulses in certain parts of the world. These pulses might trap the energy that is released when people die (we can't destroy energy, correct?), and boom! There you have it, "ghosts"!

- Arkans

[Weedmage Princess]

Interesting theory, Arkans.

Here's a question, I guess moreso for people who don't believe. What do you think happens to our soul when we die?

[Trinitis]

Weedie, you will find most people who discount ghosts completely are those that don't have any religious views, and as such, do not believe in "souls".

:)

[Iriscience]

beleiving in ghosts is for five year olds and morons.

editted to add Ben, but then realized he falls in the moron category.

[Edited on 5-5-2004 by Iriscience]

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Iriscience
editted to add Ben, but then realized he falls in the moron category.

No, what Ben calls "spooks" aren't quite ghosts.

But he is scared.

[CrystalTears]

I very much believe in ghosts. Well, mostly spirits lingering around who refuse to believe they've passed on and have some things that they want to do before they "leave".

I haven't actually seen ghosts myself, but my grandmother is constantly seeing and dealing with spirits in her home, but they only show themselves to her. She's seen good and bad spirits. Bad ones that have tried to choke her to death.

I've also seen doors close and lock on their own, random things move and fall, and some pictures I took as a kid of my aunt and grandparents would show the same ghoulie face on the wall behind them. I'd like to say it was a light glare but the same wall was used to take pictures of several people and it only appeared when it had my aunt and/or grandmother in it. Very bizarre. We even had to have an exorcist in the house and it passed through my grandmother before exiting. Rather freaky to see your sweet and nice grandmother spout obscenities in English (when she barely speaks it) and her face contort. It scared me to see her possessed like that.

[Chyrain]

i've experienced "hauntings." In my best friends house growing up (where her parents still live and I visit often).

One example:

She had a pool table downstairs in her basement. Her floor was linoleum. She, her older sister and I were in the kitchen making BLTs for dinner and we heard all of the poolsticks fall from the rack onto the linoleum. Now, poolsticks on linoleum is a very distinct sound. Well, because her father was about to return from work and we didn't want to get in trouble...her older sister went down the stairs to pick them up. Not a single thing was out of place.

This has happened numerous times. Pool sticks, boxes, video cassettes. We've even heard the sounds while being IN the room...turn around and nothing is there. Of course there was a hastey exit...

One time I was house sitting, watching a movie, and I heard someone walking up the stairs. Not just walking...tromping...up the stairs. I my first thought was that it was their cat, but as I glanced toward the front door, the cat was sitting on the brick ledge waiting to be let inside. Again, a hastey exit was made.

All of these things have been mutually experienced, together or seperately...but all the same experiences. It's weird.

[Atlanteax]

Originally posted by Chyrain
i've experienced "hauntings." In my best friends house growing up (where her parents still live and I visit often).

One example:

She had a pool table downstairs in her basement. Her floor was linoleum. She, her older sister and I were in the kitchen making BLTs for dinner and we heard all of the poolsticks fall from the rack onto the linoleum. Now, poolsticks on linoleum is a very distinct sound. Well, because her father was about to return from work and we didn't want to get in trouble...her older sister went down the stairs to pick them up. Not a single thing was out of place.

This has happened numerous times. Pool sticks, boxes, video cassettes. We've even heard the sounds while being IN the room...turn around and nothing is there. Of course there was a hastey exit...

One time I was house sitting, watching a movie, and I heard someone walking up the stairs. Not just walking...tromping...up the stairs. I my first thought was that it was their cat, but as I glanced toward the front door, the cat was sitting on the brick ledge waiting to be let inside. Again, a hastey exit was made.

All of these things have been mutually experienced, together or seperately...but all the same experiences. It's weird.

Yea, I have heard very distinct noises of someone walking around in my house, and doors opening and closing.

Yet I was the only one home alone (dogs were outside).

Also spooks me when one of my dogs would seem to be growling at something in the room, or at something at the other end of the hallway.

Basement also seemed very spooky when I was younger. Though still now, I try not to linger in the basement, or especially hurry up whatever I went down there to do, if I get that "creepy feeling".

[Ravenstorm]

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

That pretty much sums it up in general. Which is not to say I necessarily believe in the supernatural but there are questions unanswered about certain things, events unexplained, etc that hold open the possibility of such a thing being true. I have yet to definitively experience any myself so I can't say I believe in any of it though I allow for the possibility. Much like my beliefs about a deity.


"I'm from Missouri. Show me."

Raven

[Weedmage Princess]

Interesting stuff here.

Guess I'll share my thoughts on the matter..though you probably could guess already...I do believe in ghosts.

Story of mine, around age 5. I used to live in a pretty large house and like most little girls, I scared easily. (still do.) I used to crawl into bed with my mom at night ..and in her room, she had this strange wooden statue of a man, it was head and shoulders. She kept it on a mantle over her bed because my aunt liked it. Anyway, every night I'd have this dream that the statue would come to life, go over to the side of my bed and tickle me. I'd push him away and tell him to stop and after a while, he would. (this usually woke up my mom) One night, same thing happens..I pushed as usual and told him to stop but he wouldn't. All of a sudden he wraps his hands around my throat and starts choking me. I started screaming, at this point my mom had waken up and was trying to wake me but I wouldn't wake up. I screamed out for my step-grandfather and the man finally let go and I woke up. My cousin who lived with me was having the same exact dream as me, turns out she'd been having it for a while as well. My mom moved the statue out of her room and the next morning my step-grandfather burned the statue. After that, neither my cousin or I ever had those dreams again.

I also had a freaky experience with a Ouija board. A bunch of us were hanging out at my friend Steve's house and he decided he wanted to play around with the Ouija board. My other friend Scott and I were pretty skeptical, thought it was a load of crap and were even more convinced when we had our hands on it and the thing didn't move. Steve calls down his sister Camille, she touches it and the thing starts flying all over the place. None of us were moving it, either. She asks it some questions, it hesitates to answer and then she asks if bad spirits were around..it says yes. She asks who, it says Mary Koch. At that time, I lived behind a church with a small cemetary and I had remembered seeing a rather large tombstone with the name Koch. It was a family plot, actually...big so it stood out. I asked if it was in that cemetary, buried with others in a plot and it said yes. So Scott decides we should go to the cemetary and check it out. Having seen it myself, I was no longer skeptical and waited in front of my house. All of a sudden I see them running from the cemetary...turns out there was a "Marie Koch." You couldn't pay me to touch a Ouija board now...heh.

[Makkah]

Hehe... you'd think spirits would be able to spell their or each other's names correctly... Mary and Marie are significantly different...

rht

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Isn't it true at the exact moment of death a person's body weight becomes some amount lighter? How is that explained?

I believe in something, just not sure what.

[Makkah]

Wasn't that in 21 grams? I always thought dead-weight was actually heavier than live-weight.

rht

I don't know about Ouija boards. I think more often than not they are really just a figment of an over imagination or something just giving another person a fright. I used one with my buddies once and no one's dead grandmother tried to eat them alive, but that's not the point.

Point, I find it hard to believe in sentient spirits. Actually aware of what they are doing or trying to accomplish something. To me, it's just energy that is released and trapped in that area due to those pulses I mentioned earlier or some other scientific reason. Hell, it could be a very simple explanation and people just *want* to believe in ghosts.

It's like UFOs, American's arn't the only ones who believe in them, but did you know other nations who believe in UFOs have never seen one of the "greys"? They see little guys, about 2" or so, wearing straw hats and demin pants. To them, that's what an alien looks like.

It's no different to me with ghosts. People will see something they can't explain and automatically want to assume it's something paranormal, even though it's probably just an overactive imagination, random dream, or just a lapse concentration and you *thought* you heard something *shrug*.

Oh, while I'm at it. I remember once, when I was about eight years old or so, I had a dream about a Blockbuster store (used to rent lots of video games) and I entered it and the whole display was changed and everything. Well, I go there a few days later and it was changed exactly as it was in my dream. True or not? Who knows, but something that makes me stop and think here and there.

- Arkans

Don't worry, You'll all find out when you die. Stop being so god damn curious.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Suppa Hobbit Mage
Isn't it true at the exact moment of death a person's body weight becomes some amount lighter? How is that explained?When you die (assuming you still have them), your bowels and bladder let go. Also, you cough up some blood. I've always thought the Matrix 3 scene where Neo kisses Trinity as she dies was stupid.

As for the topic, Weedie hangs out with some hellaciously stupid people. "Hey, there might be a ghost around that means us harm... let's go tromp around on it's grave! That's a swell idea!" The only psuedo paranormal thing that happens to me is all my deja vu has an impending sense of doom attached. Which really sucks, let me tell you, but not as bad as random noises in the night, I'll wager.

[Vesi]

Weird things have happened to me all my life. I normally didn't tell anyone when I was a child because I figured no one would believe me.

When I first started dating my husband, he lived in a garage apartment in this old house. He would get up and go to work and leave me there sleeping. (he worked day hours... I worked evening hours) I would hear footsteps down this long narrow hall he had. Also, the water in the kitchen would come on by itself. I never said anything to him about this. Then one morning I'm sleeping and I hear the footsteps and I'm thinking he dropped by from work. I feel the bed sink in and I was being tickled. I started laughing and turn over telling him to stop... and no one is there. So, later, I finally say something about what I felt and heard and he says... you mean you hear all that too?

I really don't know what to call it. I just know my daughter is like me and I told her when she was little and it bothered her that I think some people are just more sensitive (guess that's the right word) to their environment. I told her I didn't know if it was ghosts, magnetic fields, energy, other dimensions or what. It's just odd that she has similiar experiences just like I did. (and I had plenty... still do)

Vesi

[Bobmuhthol]

Ghosts rox my sox.

[SpunGirl]

I totally believe in ghosts, good and bad. My Uncle Dan died in a car crash when my cousin and I were 11. We've always been really close, and when he and I spent time together the next summer he confided in me that his dad had "visited" him the morning he died. He had crashed his car in the early AM, and that same morning Jay woke up to the sound of the TV in the living room. He went out and his dad was there watching TV, and he said, "Jay, I just want you to know I love you. Go back to bed." He woke up later because his mom was screaming... the police were at the door telling her that Uncle Dan was dead.

My Grandma visited me very briefly the day she died. It was in a semi-dream, one of those half awake half sleeping states. I don't care to go into detail, but she and I were very close and it was one of the most important things that's ever happened to me.

As for souls and where they go, I strongly believe in reincarnation. I can't imagine we can learn all that's necessary to know about the human experience in a single life.

-K

[i remember halloween]

ghosts do not exist

[i remember halloween]

Originally posted by Weedmage Princess
Interesting theory, Arkans.

Here's a question, I guess moreso for people who don't believe. What do you think happens to our soul when we die?

nothing. we don't have them.

[Souzy]

I too am a believer. Crazy shit has happened to me growing up. Don't wanna talk about it cos I sleep alone at night. :cry:

[Shari]

I didn't used to believe in ghosts.

When I was in 7th grade my best friend's dad commited suicide. My best friend's mother was a very no-nonsense serious person. I doubt she's told a lie in her life and is very stright-laced. Anyway, they have all their family pictures hanging on the wall in their livingroom and a week after his funeral the pictures with him in it would be askew. Laura (my friend's mom) would adjust them, walk into the kitchen, come back out and they'd be all crooked again. Then one night she was cleaning up dinner, everyone was already in bed and then went into the livingroom to watch tv. She went back into the kitchen and EVERY SINGLE cabinet door was swung wide open.

Just this last June my boyfriend's mother died. It was a huge shock for the family and I still think about her every day. The day before her funeral we were sitting down watching tv and out of nowhere our dog bounds off the couch, runs into the living room, barks and starts wagging his tail. He looks up at something in the hallway and jumps up on his hind legs and starts pawing at the air. My boyfriend and I just looked at each other with tears in our eyes and he said, "Hi mom." Our dog stayed there for a few more seconds before walking back to the couch and laying down.

I believe in ghosts from now on.

[Tendarian]

How do you know no one else moved the ouiji board thing? I swear one of my friends always wanted to play it and no one ever admitted to moving it but the strange thing is the spirits we "contacted" never even once gave information no one in the room already knew. I mean in Weedies case one of the kids could have went to the cemetary and then came up with that "spirit" to talk to.

It seems like all my friends believed in this junk as well. One friend sweared he had ghosts cause lights would go on and off. Later found out he had loose wires in some rooms. Shit falls in my house all the time too,but it doesnt mean its haunted. Shit falls yanno?


Here's a question, I guess moreso for people who don't believe. What do you think happens to our soul when we die?

It either goes to a different place (heaven, hell etc) or it just doesnt exist.

My question is, if you believe in ghosts do you also believe in aliens? It seems the two are connected in that most who see them are young or drunk or both and almost always white(least on tv).

[Xcalibur]

Non-existence = paradox.

Therefore, there's always something.

Proof reincarnation cannot works: Earth explods.

Therefore, Boodah was wrong:cool:

p.s. I'm serious.

[Artha]

I think what he's trying to say is: There are more people on earth now than there were 500 years ago. Therefore reincarnation can not work as it doesn't account for creation of souls.

[Weedmage Princess]

I didn't read every story in this thread cause frankly, I'm a coward when it comes to stuff like this, it's night time and even though I don't sleep alone, I'll still be scared..heh. I will come back and read them tomorrow though. Stuff like this intrigues me.

But to clarify a couple of things I did read. LOL Latrinsorm they didn't go "tromping around on the grave." Atleast I hope not! Like I said, you could see this just walking by the cemetary. The sidewalk was lower than the churchyard (cemetary) and church. You had to walk up a few steps to get to it.

Tendarian, it's hard to explain, but I am pretty certain no one was moving the piece. I'll do my best to explain it...maybe someone who's experienced it before here can help me out, but I'll try anyway. It was only three of us who had our fingertips on the thing...myself, Scott and Camille. When we all were screwing around with it earlier before Camille came down, Steve was messing around and pushing it..you could feel where the shove was coming from when he pushed it...you could feel it being pushed by his fingers...if that makes sense? So we all knew it was him. When Camille did it with Scott and I, it felt different...it didn't feel like the movement was coming from anywhere. Hard to explain, I guess....and who knows...but I certainly didn't (and still don't) think she was moving it.

As for Ranger <grin> well...I have to say, I can't help but be curious. I didn't go looking for stuff in the two instances I mentioned in my post...they just happened. These are things you just don't forget...well atleast I don't.

Either way, all the explanations I've read so far from both believers and non-believers are interesting and make sense.

Oh and yes, I do believe in aliens too ;p

I haven't had any experiences with aliens or anything, so I'm not saying there definitely are or aren't, just that I think they are. My theory is pretty similar to Matthew McConaughey's character in Contact. When someone asked him if he believed in aliens, he said "Well, if we're the only ones who exist in the universe, that's a mighty big waste of space." I agree.

[TheEschaton]

I believe in the spirit world and things like that.


Except I call them miracles of the every day....works of God.

I can't say I've been touched specifically, but..well, I was into some crazy things as a youth.

-TheE-

[DeV]

I also believe in the spirit world, and in the existence of things we might not be ready to understand or accept. I don't think we are alone in this universe because frankly I don't think we as humans are that special.

[LilHellcat]

I go to college for Parapsychology of course I believe in them. I'm also cherokee its practically in my blood. When I first started college I wasn't completely a believer. I've had a few experiences of my own that I'm not going to put here a few know the stories a few dont.

I can tell you from what I've learned in class there is three types of "hauntings" so to speak and yes they do somewhat relate to energy and you have to check the electro magnetic so and so.

Every once in awhile we do these "Field" trips to local haunted places set up equipment and stay for the night. I've seen enough to realize there is something out there we aren't suppost to be able to explain and sometimes it can scare the shit out of you.

My father was a complete non-believer til a few years ago. When i was younger we lived in a house that I hated completely. I'd hear things walking in my room at night. I'd have nightmares every single night in that house of something being there that was evil. My dad would laugh it off or just say it was my imagination.

Well a few years ago my now ex husband worked at a grocery store at night. He was stock. So after the store closed he'd be there putting up groceries. At the time our car was messed up so my dad would pick him up from work and bring him home. Now my dad knew nothing of what everyone in the store called "The lady in red" I had seen her myself. Always got a weird feeling when going through this certain isle as well.

My dad went in right as they were closing one night. He said he saw the woman walk by coudln't see her face but she walked off had a cart and everything. My husband's boss came over and told my father that my husband was just finishing something up . My dad was like theres someone still in the store and the manager was like oh would you mind go telling her that the store is closed so we can unlock the door and let her out? My dad was like sure, so he started walking down the isles and followed her and he said right in the middle of the isle she just literally poofed right before his eyes literally just disappeared. He thought he was going crazy. He said his heart starting beating and he wanted to run. Which coming from my father is a big thing (he's like 6'5 and 290 pounds and looks like a professional wrestler) my father isn't scared of anything.

He found my ex and my ex was like Mike whats wrong? My dad was almost in tears he told him what he seen and all Joe said was Oh you seen the lady in red? My dad's face went even paler and said you know her? My ex was like Yeah we see her all the time. By the time they got home, my dad walks in he's pale he's shaking looks like he's going to just hit the floor. He said Amber you know how you always said I would become a believer even if it slapped me in the face? I said yeah, he said well I just got slapped.

Ever since that time, granted my dad isn't a hardcore believer but he realizes he saw something that he can't explain so he's not a complete non-believer anymore either.

The store in question is the old Winn-Dixie now a Food city in maryville. Everyone who works there has either seen this lady in red or knows who she is. I think honestly she's buried underneath because she seems to disappear in the same place every single time. I also think she's kind of a "guardian" of that place so to speak. She's actually done stuff supposedly to help the guys there and one even claims she saved his ass. So who knows I've seen her but everytime you see her she's turned away from you no ones ever seen her face. I think she hides it that way for a reason. It's very obvious she's from a older time though. Her clothes are older looking like not 1800's or anything but older like from the 40's or 50's. Thats way before the building was ever built. Its always been rumored though that half of the town I live in was built over old cemetaries from the 1800's so who knows.

[Tendarian]

I go to college for Parapsychology of course I believe in them.

I have a few questions about this. 1) What is the name of the college? 2) How much does it cost roughly? 3) What kind of jobs can you get after you graduate and how easy are they obtained and how much might you get paid? Ohhh and 4) Do they have a web page for the college? Im pretty ignorant about this stuff as im definately a non believer so are these real colleges?

[LilHellcat]

Originally posted by Tendarian

I go to college for Parapsychology of course I believe in them.

I have a few questions about this. 1) What is the name of the college? 2) How much does it cost roughly? 3) What kind of jobs can you get after you graduate and how easy are they obtained and how much might you get paid? Ohhh and 4) Do they have a web page for the college? Im pretty ignorant about this stuff as im definately a non believer so are these real colleges?


I'll U2u you with it in a moment :smilegrin:
Yes there is colleges that teach it most and I say most are in places such as England but there are a few in the US (you'd actually be surprised some of the more well known ones are in NY and California) Trany university aka Translyvanian University is one of them but it IS a sister college to the one in England. It also depends on which part you go in. When you study parapsychology its a broad broad subject.

You can go into Paranormal Investigator (sorta like the FEAR show you seen on mtv or the discovery channel shows). Folk Lore is also a study into paranormal things. As well as Occult Psychologists or Cult investigators (those who study cult killings etc with the police basically to get into the "head" of the members.)

You also have the people who go into the metaphysical means of it and become professional psychics or tarot card readers. Meditation experts (yes thats included also) . People who go on into the military or dealing with ufo's studies things like that. Heheh. We even study certain parts of astrology.

Basic income can run from anything depending on what branch you go into from 25 an hour to 75 bucks an hour so to speak (thats more for the psychologists) But you get my point :smilegrin:Granted there isn't this huge overwhelming need for it but honestly I did because I wanted too not because I wanted to be like everyone else in the world and become a computer programmer. Sure maybe I'll not be the richest person in the world but atleast I did what I wanted too. Not because it was "in demand".

[Tendarian]

:thumbsup: Thanks for the info, thats great. I love these types of shows on the history channel and such.

[CrystalTears]

I haven't had much play with a Ouiji board but the times that I did, no one pushed it. You can tell when someone is pushing it. When you lightly touch it, it starts to move on its own. I've done it by myself and it's done the same thing and I know I'm not pushing it.

However sometimes I feel that the subconscious controls it because one time I tried the free-writing and it wrote things that I was thinking about earlier. My eyes were closed and just let the hand write. It's a weird thing to explain without it sounding like BS.

My exhusband said that he was rather skeptical of Ouiji boards til he played once with his friends and it mentioned the date of when the Oklahoma bombing was going to be. When the bombing happened, he turned white and we went to his friends' house and they too were pale as ghosts. To my knowledge he hasn't gone near one again.

[Parkbandit]

Ghosts lie right there next to religion for me. They are there to explain the unexplainable... nothing more.

Death is final and we somehow take solstice in hoping for some afterlife so that we can face death easier.

[Latrinsorm]

The flaw in X's logic is that he assumes Earth is the only location where people exist.

I don't get why I don't get to have these cool nightmares and visitations and such. Maybe I watch too much TV or something.

[Miss X]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
Ghosts lie right there next to religion for me. They are there to explain the unexplainable... nothing more.

Death is final and we somehow take solstice in hoping for some afterlife so that we can face death easier.

I hope not. :(

[TheEschaton]

My exhusband said that he was rather skeptical of Ouiji boards til he played once with his friends and it mentioned the date of when the Oklahoma bombing was going to be. When the bombing happened, he turned white and we went to his friends' house and they too were pale as ghosts. To my knowledge he hasn't gone near one again

Maybe the ghost was just a stoner, or a Neo-Nazi, and was discussing 4/20 and/or Hitler's birthday.


-TheE-

[Xcalibur]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm
The flaw in X's logic is that he assumes Earth is the only location where people exist.

I don't get why I don't get to have these cool nightmares and visitations and such. Maybe I watch too much TV or something.

I was 13 years old. I dreamt a lot in that time. I dreamt that I was with some buddies and playing and SUDENTLY! BANG!

I had that "ascension" feeling (moving up at high speed) and I "wake" up in those nasa suit on the moon. I remember feeling my dry breath, fast, the humidity, the warm, my heart beating fast. And being dizzy, a lot.

And I saw someone, far, on the moon. And a big voice in my head echoed: Be aware "my name", a great danger lies ahead.

And suddendly, again, the "descent", at full speed again, as if I was falling from something high.

Woke up.

Latrinsorm, my logic takes for granted that humans are humans. Most deja vus, if not all, are about human being human being or animals.

In all the cases, if reincarnation was real and my logic respeced, some people would have souvenirs of being "elsewhere".

Reincarnation does not work.

[Edited on 6-5-04 by Xcalibur]

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by TheEschaton

My exhusband said that he was rather skeptical of Ouiji boards til he played once with his friends and it mentioned the date of when the Oklahoma bombing was going to be. When the bombing happened, he turned white and we went to his friends' house and they too were pale as ghosts. To my knowledge he hasn't gone near one again

Maybe the ghost was just a stoner, or a Neo-Nazi, and was discussing 4/20 and/or Hitler's birthday.


-TheE-

During their Ouiji session, it pointed to the date, and then spelled out Oklahoma, so it was being a bit more specific than just a date.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Xcalibur
In all the cases, if reincarnation was real and my logic respeced, some people would have souvenirs of being "elsewhere".

Reincarnation does not work.What makes you so sure that elsewhere would be noticeably different from here? :D

[Parkbandit]

Anyone who holds any belief that a piece of plastic on a piece of cardboard is used to communicate with the dead souls of others is, in my book, a complete :loser:

[Weedmage Princess]

Be nice, Parkbandit. :(

[CrystalTears]

Spirits tend to use lifeless objects so that they won't be ignored when trying to seek attention. I may not study paranormal but I've had to deal with my family putting up with it all of my life, and pushing around keys on the piano, locking doors, flicking the lipstick off the dresser are ways for them to say "Hey I'm here!". And since the Ouiji board has letters, what better way to get a message across.

Oh and Parkbandit? :fu:

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Weedmage Princess
Be nice, Parkbandit. :(

That WAS nice! I simply don't understand folks.

Do you really think there is something special about how they mold the plastic viewer of the ouiji board that makes the 'spirits' want to talk to you? If spirits can communicate with us.. why can they only do so through that 'special' device? Why haven't I been communicated with? I would think the 'spirits' would be more likely to try and tell me all about them then they would the believers out there. Or is there some 'secret' code they have that they cannot let their existence be known?

It's all a bunch of crap if you ask me. It is nothing more than coincidences, hope and conjecture.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
Why haven't I been communicated with? ... It's all a bunch of crap if you ask me.:ponder:

If I was to haunt someone's house (and someday I will, Lord willing and the creeks don't rise) I would go with the house where people who believe were. I mean, I'm not going to waste my ectoplasm knocking stuff about if all I get is "Oh, must've been a draft" or "well, things fall sometimes, whatever" or "This is a bunch of crap". Call me an undead attention whore if you must, but I'd want to be noticed.

[TheEschaton]

A) Deja vu is merely a synaptic misfire. Instead of being stored to short term memory, the event is stored to long term memory, and, as it just happened, you are left with the uneasy feeling that you've seen this exact thing before.

B) X's ideas on reincarnation are completely illogical. Most believers in reincarnation believe in a "river of Lethe" type thing, where they drink at the river, forget their past life, but still have the same sort of karma from the previous life, which translates to their new physical reincarnation.

-TheE-

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm

Originally posted by Parkbandit
Why haven't I been communicated with? ... It's all a bunch of crap if you ask me.:ponder:

If I was to haunt someone's house (and someday I will, Lord willing and the creeks don't rise) I would go with the house where people who believe were. I mean, I'm not going to waste my ectoplasm knocking stuff about if all I get is "Oh, must've been a draft" or "well, things fall sometimes, whatever" or "This is a bunch of crap". Call me an undead attention whore if you must, but I'd want to be noticed.

But I'm sure my spirit would be like "Heh.. let me fuck with this non-believer and make him believe there IS an afterlife."

You have to think there HAS to be some spirits that want to fuck with me for that very reason. I'm a non-believer... and I certainly would be freaked out more than a true believer.

Again... it's my belief that people need comforting. If they didn't have that, and realized that you are here to be born, live and die with nothing afterwards.. it would make some people panic.

Personally, it reminds me that everyday could be the last day of my life.. I need to make it count because there ain't shit later on to do a mulligan with.

[CrystalTears]

So you're saying that I'm making myself believe that there are supernatural beings to make myself feel better about dying. Okay, I'd buy that if I would experience nice things. Seeing a door slam and lock on me is not something I care to see, thankyouverymuch, and makes me actually hope there isn't an afterlife cause I don't want to see those people when I show up laugh at me for getting freaked out when they did it.

Hey Park... :moon:

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
So you're saying that I'm making myself believe that there are supernatural beings to make myself feel better about dying. Okay, I'd buy that if I would experience nice things. Seeing a door slam and lock on me is not something I care to see, thankyouverymuch, and makes me actually hope there isn't an afterlife cause I don't want to see those people when I show up laugh at me for getting freaked out when they did it.

Hey Park... :moon:

The afterlife has been part of our lore throughout the ages. My belief is that it gives people comfort knowing that death is not absolute.. that there is at least something later on.

Experiencing 'contact' with the spirit world isn't the comforting part.. it's knowing that after you die, your 'spirit'.. your being.. YOU will live on in some form.

Hey.. I realize it's not a popular belief.. but it the only one with any facts to back it up right now. Who has any actual "proof" that there is life after death? And PLEASE don't bring up the people that die and are brought back saying there was this 'bright light'... that's not proof.

[CrystalTears]

I'm hoping that there is something in the afterlife. Lingering on this earth longer is not one of them. :D

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
I'm hoping that there is something in the afterlife. Lingering on this earth longer is not one of them. :D

And it's that 'hope' that helps people get through things like death and tragedy.

[CrystalTears]

I have no problem with people who don't believe in the supernatural. What bugs me is when people see and mention things that can't be explained and non-believers chock it up to "seeing things" and mental images rather than perhaps giving the benefit of the doubt that the idea of afterlife IS possible.

[Iriscience]

you're insane

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
I have no problem with people who don't believe in the supernatural. What bugs me is when people see and mention things that can't be explained and non-believers chock it up to "seeing things" and mental images rather than perhaps giving the benefit of the doubt that the idea of afterlife IS possible.


I have no problem with people who believe in the supernatural. What bugs me is when people see and mention things that can't be explained and believers chock it up to "Gods Will" or "Must have been a ghost" rather than perhaps giving the benefit of the doubt that there is no afterlife. :smilegrin:

[Mint]

I don't believe in ghosts. At least I have never encountered one myself. I can't imagine how boring existence as a ghost would be personally. I mean, really...scaring the occasional live person would be sort of fun but what else would there be to do to pass the time?

[TheEschaton]

I don't believe in ghosts. At least I have never encountered one myself. I can't imagine how boring existence as a ghost would be personally. I mean, really...scaring the occasional live person would be sort of fun but what else would there be to do to pass the time?


You could watch girls in the shower.

-TheE-

[Mint]

Originally posted by TheEschaton


I don't believe in ghosts. At least I have never encountered one myself. I can't imagine how boring existence as a ghost would be personally. I mean, really...scaring the occasional live person would be sort of fun but what else would there be to do to pass the time?


You could watch girls in the shower.

-TheE-

Not my idea of a good time. Men now...that's a different story. Hm, death is sounding sort of fun now. Yikes.

[Mint]

Oh, and now I have to shower clothed. Thanks E.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
Hey.. I realize it's not a popular belief.. but it the only one with any facts to back it up right now. Who has any actual "proof" that there is life after death?Shroud of Turin.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm

Originally posted by Parkbandit
Hey.. I realize it's not a popular belief.. but it the only one with any facts to back it up right now. Who has any actual "proof" that there is life after death?Shroud of Turin.

That is your proof for what? That a guy maybe named Jesus died on a cross and was wrapped in cloth? Does it prove he 'rose from the dead'? Does it prove Jesus is the son of God? Does it prove there is a God?

Come on.. bring me some real proof. That proves nothing.

[Latrinsorm]

Look up some stuff on the Shroud of Turin. Like how something magic happened with it and there's this outline there now.

[Mint]

I thought the shroud of Turin was carbon dated to the thirteenth century.

[Bobmuhthol]

It's too bad you have no idea what you're talking about and only living organisms have carbon-14.

Piece of cloth != Organic.

[Edited on 5-6-2004 by Bobmuhthol]

[Artha]

...except that cloth is made from plants, which are organic.

[Bobmuhthol]

You don't know that.

[Mint]

I wonder why the scientists that did the dating didnt realize it was not possible...

http://www.shroud.com/nature.htm

[Bobmuhthol]

Haha I lose.

It was carbon dated after all, and the timeframe is the mid-14th century.

[Mint]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
Haha I lose.

It was carbon dated after all, and the timeframe is the mid-14th century.

This required an update to my sig.

[Artha]

That's the first thought I had too.

Then I figured "How long's an in game hour" was better.

[Latrinsorm]

Look up carbon dating. It's not accurate at this level.

[Mint]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm
Look up carbon dating. It's not accurate at this level.

Don't get me wrong. I would like nothing more than to believe it was really Christ's burial shroud but I don't need unreliable proof to believe in the existence of God. Period.


[Edited on 5-6-2004 by Mint]

[Bobmuhthol]

<<It's not accurate at this level.>>

Carbon dating is accurate for organisms up to fifteen thousand years old.

A LOZER IS YUO.


Edited to change the amount of accuracy involved after looking it up.

Edited again because I was right the first time and I apparently misread my source.

[Edited on 5-6-2004 by Bobmuhthol]

[Mint]

I believe there was testing done once on carbon dating reliability and a George Wallace campaign button was dated to the age of dinosaurs. Come to think of it, that test was probably accurate.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<a George Wallace campaign button was dated to the age of dinosaurs. Come to think of it, that test was probably accurate.>>

That wouldn't happen with C14 dating. While there are methods that yield results in the millions or billions of years, they involve assumed scenarios. Carbon dating, at the current time, will get you verified and accurate results to 3000 or 4000 BC.

Edited to add in verified.

[Edited on 5-6-2004 by Bobmuhthol]

[Mint]

Quit throwing science and logic at me! It confuses me.

[Latrinsorm]

If you'd researched the Shroud of Turin, you'd know why I was right, Bob. :)

[Mint]

Barbie Paleoanthropology

from:
Paleoanthropology Division Smithsonian Institute
207 Pennsylvania Avenue
Washington, DC 20078

Dear Sir:

Thank you for your latest submission to the Institute, labeled "211-D, layer seven, next to the clothesline post. Hominid skull." We have given this specimen a careful and detailed examination, and regret to inform you that we disagree with your theory that it represents "conclusive proof of the presence of Early Man in Charleston County two million years ago." Rather, it appears that what you have found is the head of a Barbie doll, of the variety one of our staff, who has small children, believes to be the "Malibu Barbie". It is evident that you have given a great deal of thought to the analysis of this specimen, and you may be quite certain that those of us who are familiar with your prior work in the field were loathe to come to contradiction with your findings. However, we do feel that there are a number of physical attributes of the specimen which might have tipped you off to it's modern origin:

1. The material is molded plastic. Ancient hominid remains are typically fossilized bone.

2. The cranial capacity of the specimen is approximately 9 cubic centimeters, well below the threshold of even the earliest identified proto-hominids.

3. The dentition pattern evident on the "skull" is more consistent with the common domesticated dog than it is with the "ravenous man-eating Pliocene clams" you speculate roamed the wetlands during that time. This latter finding is certainly one of the most intriguing hypotheses you have submitted in your history with this institution, but the evidence seems to weigh rather heavily against it. Without going into too much detail, let us say that:

A. The specimen looks like the head of a Barbie doll that a dog has chewed on.
B. Clams don't have teeth.

It is with feelings tinged with melancholy that we must deny your request to have the specimen carbon dated. This is partially due to the heavy load our lab must bear in its normal operation, and partly due to carbon dating's notorious inaccuracy in fossils of recent geologic record. To the best of our knowledge, no Barbie dolls were produced prior to 1956 AD, and carbon dating is likely to produce wildly inaccurate results. Sadly, we must also deny your request that we approach the National Science Foundation's Phylogeny Department with the concept of assigning your specimen the scientific name "Australopithecus spiff-arino." Speaking personally, I, for one, fought tenaciously for the acceptance of your proposed taxonomy, but was ultimately voted down because the species name you selected was hyphenated, and didn't really sound like it might be Latin.

However, we gladly accept your generous donation of this fascinating specimen to the museum. While it is undoubtedly not a hominid fossil, it is, nonetheless, yet another riveting example of the great body of work you seem to accumulate here so effortlessly. You should know that our Director has reserved a special shelf in his own office for the display of the specimens you have previously submitted to the Institution, and the entire staff speculates daily on what you will happen upon next in your digs at the site you have discovered in your back yard. We eagerly anticipate your trip to our nation's capital that you proposed in your last letter, and several of us are pressing the Director to pay for it. We are particularly interested in hearing you expand on your theories surrounding the "trans-positating fillifitation of ferrous ions in a structural matrix" that makes the excellent juvenile Tyrannosaurus rex femur you recently discovered take on the deceptive appearance of a rusty 9-mm Sears Craftsman automotive crescent wrench.


Yours in Science,

Harvey Rowe
Curator, Antiquities

[Bobmuhthol]

That. Is. Fucking. Hilarious.

:blush: <--- what a stupid emoticon.

[Xcalibur]

Originally posted by TheEschaton
A) Deja vu is merely a synaptic misfire. Instead of being stored to short term memory, the event is stored to long term memory, and, as it just happened, you are left with the uneasy feeling that you've seen this exact thing before.

B) X's ideas on reincarnation are completely illogical. Most believers in reincarnation believe in a "river of Lethe" type thing, where they drink at the river, forget their past life, but still have the same sort of karma from the previous life, which translates to their new physical reincarnation.

-TheE-

Belief = logical, you are right:rolleyes:

My beliefs is TOTALY working if you make it at worse:

Hypotese:

Reincarnation exists

Earth EXPLODES!

What happens?

Solution A) We reincarnate into something else elsewhere.

What if there's no elsewhere OR we cannot reincarnate into them?

BOOH.

Reincarnation, in my mind, cannot works for that reason. After life cannot have an end.


[Edited on 7-5-04 by Xcalibur]

[Prestius]

Call me an extreme skeptic. Paranormal ... Parapsychology .. it's all a load.

Sure there's no proof ghosts don't exist. There's also no proof pink dragons and Santa Claus doesn't exist either.

You should check out http://www.randi.org/ - Randi debunks pretty much all the clap-trap and flim-flam out there.

He's got a $1 million dollar reward for *anyone* that can prove in verifiable, repeatable, double-blind tests, any sort of paranormal phenomenon - from ghosts to dowsing to remote viewing to UFO's .. the whole gamut ( http://www.randi.org/research/index.html ) . No one has collected in fact very few make it past the basic screening -- and some of the more famous "psychics" - Sylvia Browne, "Crossing Over" fraud Jonathon Edwards, etc simply refuse to be tested - I wonder why ...

I guess I can sum most of it up with this - the *real* world is fascinating enough -

As Einstein said, "Me sense of God is my sense of wonder about the Universe".

-P

[TheEschaton]

X, your idiocy astounds me.

The people who believe in reincarnation usually tend to believe the earth won't explode til we all reach Nirvana.

-TheE-

[Tendarian]

Originally posted by TheEschaton
X, your idiocy astounds me.

The people who believe in reincarnation usually tend to believe the earth won't explode til we all reach Nirvana.

-TheE-

So therefore we dont need any of these enviromental laws as the earth will always be here(cause looking at people i cant see them reaching nirvana anytime soon). This is mostly said tongue in cheek. Im just curious as it seems most people who believe in reincarnation are enviromentalists as well.

[Xcalibur]

Your idiocy is even greater my friend, as you used the word "logical" with "belief".

And you still did, in a way.

The planet known as Earth will fade out eventually. Either by us, by the sun, by meteors, et cetera.

I believe there's an after life, and I'm doing an idiot thing, as you, to use logic to explain why it must exists, and what kind of afterlife would "exists".

I'm scared of death
:(

[TheEschaton]

Your idiocy is even greater my friend, as you used the word "logical" with "belief".


Please, please point out where I said belief was logical? I doubt I would say that, as I happen to think the very opposite, that belief is illogical beyond, well, belief.

Just because it is illogical, though, does not mean I think it is a bad thing.

Edited to add: Looking back, what I see is that I said your beliefs are illogical. And they are. That doesn't make the beliefs opposite yours automatically logical. Come on, that's simple logic. ;)

p->q <=> ~p->q is FALSE, in other words. In fact, it cannot be true, unless you have conclusive fact that q is true.

-TheE-

[Edited on 5-7-2004 by TheEschaton]

[SpunGirl]

I've read a lot of theories having to do with reincarnation. I like them. They strike a chord with me. I don't feel it's necessary to inspect them and debate about how logical they are, because my belief in them doesn't affect anyone else one way or the other, really.

Living one life on this planet is simply not enough. There is too much to learn. I also believe that many things happen for a reason. This doesn't toss out the idea of free will, but I do believe things are thrown in our path for a purpose.

And we might be "just human," but our imperfections and our humanity is what makes us so great.

-K