Why Valicar should not run White Haven

[Drew2]

Upon hearing Valicar's desire to run White Haven, I compiled reasons why this should not be so. If you disagree with me, I don't care. If you happen to like Valicar, I don't care. If you rant and rave for the next ten pages how great Valicar is and how much I am teh suck, I don't care.

Ten reasons why Valicar Should Not be Chairman of White Haven

1. Mr. Greedy already controls the Fury
2. During invasions, he'll throw the weakest members in front of everyone.
3. His nose can't go any higher in the air
4. His horse can't get any higher
5. He'll get White Haven groupies in addition to his Fury ones
6. His ego is about to pop as it is
7. He'll make the House practice fire drills every Restday
8. New positions will be created for his favorites
9. White Haven funds will mysteriously disappear and the Fury will all get shiny new badges
10. I said no

[Edited on 8-4-2003 by Gemstone101]

[Skirmisher]

Valicar is great and you are teh suck.

[CrystalTears]

So basically someone who is egocentric wants a position as leader? And this is surprising? BFD.

And as for the list, other than perhaps #2, you haven't presented any real reasons why he would be a bad decision except that you don't like him.

There, I said my piece and I don't care if you don't like it either. :P

[Drew2]

I think number 10 is plenty reason. Kthnx.

Contrary to what a lot of people say, Valicar is a pretty decent person. If he started to run White Haven, it would get the house active again and I'd join in on it.

Believe me, Valicar doesn't really play favorites. I really wasn't one of his "liked" members and regretfully I did publically bash him while I was in the Fury. Believe me, I somewhat regret it. Somehow though, I managed to reach Colonel in the Northern Fury while I was part of it.

Hell, I say more power to him. He'd a capable guy and has my support.

- Arkans

[Drew2]

On a serious note, one of my biggest problems with Valicar.. and the Fury, for that matter.. is their attitude that anything pertaining to Icemule is their business, and their decisions are the best over anyone else's. The more power that he gains, the more justified he'll feel when he starts ordering around the citizens of Icemule and telling us what's in our best interest. (As shown by the Crystal incident when it came to Icemule). I'm sure to some people Valicar is a nice guy and yada yada... but everyone knows that power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. I say, dont' give him any more than he needs. Keep the power spread out, and things will be much more diplomatic in Icemule.

[Soulpieced]

Everyone knows that power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

.

I'd like to think I'm one of the oldest people around who really doesn't throw his/her weight and power around. As long as people respect my opinion and knowledge, I usually don't have problems with anyone. In the case with Valicar. I personally have always hated PRO's, and I doubt anything in game will happen to make me think otherwise. From an in-character standpoint, an old bard could single-handedly wipe out a room of hundreds of PC's and critters in the blink of an eye with sonic disruption. All the PRO's don't really have much relative power, and merely give the peons something to feel important. Now, should he be allowed to be the head of a house? That is questionable. There comes a point when single characters become too powerful or in charge of too many things. In this case, I don't know if the leader of an army from an IC point of view could POSSIBLY also be in charge of a great house...

Seeing as though no one is forced to listen to to Valicar anyone can just say, "No, fuck you" and that is that. Plenty of non-Fury members said that to him and he didn't and couldn't do anything about it. Only the people that choose to listen to him really have to do what he says and even then they don't need to be part of the orginization he runs.

- Arkans

[Drew2]

What Arkans says is very true. Tayre doesn't go around flaming Valicar or the Fury on a regular basis, but when the Fury comes around pushing its opinion on what it think should happen or the decision it has reached regarding the people, Tayre tells them what HIS opinoin is of them and the decision he's reached of where they can stick their heads. They only have power over people who can't make decisions for themselves.

[Vesi]

I don't have a problem with Valicar doing both.

To join the Fury or the House is totally optional. If someone in Icemule feels that strongly about him heading both, then run against him. (I really don't know how the councils of the Houses are handled)

Vesi

[StrayRogue]

Well, atleast he's trying.

[Parkbandit]

Looks like Tayre wears a slight shade of green.

If you are a member of White Haven and do not wish him to run it.. I would suggest you run against him. Take your weak debate and campaign against him with it.

If you are not a member of White Haven... why again do you give a crap what he does?

Absolute Power? You mean because he runs the Fury and White Haven together.. he would have absolute power?

He isn't a land owner.. now that's where the real power lies... in Real Estate. :smug:

[StrayRogue]

Well said Parkbandit. I don't see you, Tayre, running huge RPO's, getting people involved and such. And the Fury is one of the most active RPO's in along time.

[Miss X]

Arrrgh, this is getting bad, I keep aggreeing with Tayre! I seriously dont think Valicar should run white haven, I mean there are other people that could do a better job, that arnt already head of some organisation. I think White Haven should be run by someone who actually lives in Icemule full time, and doesnt view themselves as better than everyone else. I heard Finiswolf wanted to be an officer, hed be pretty good at it.
X

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
Looks like Tayre wears a slight shade of green.

If you are a member of White Haven and do not wish him to run it.. I would suggest you run against him. Take your weak debate and campaign against him with it.

If you are not a member of White Haven... why again do you give a crap what he does?

Absolute Power? You mean because he runs the Fury and White Haven together.. he would have absolute power?

He isn't a land owner.. now that's where the real power lies... in Real Estate. :smug:

Damn it Parkbandit, stop making sense so I have to agree with you.

[Drew2]

I figured someone would try and pull the "Tayre is a jealous little urchin" thing. But honestly, what is there to be jealous about? Like he said on the official boards, leadership is to give yourself to the public and blah blah blah... and I don't listen to anyone but myself most of the time.

I just think Valicar needs to stop while he's ahead. This is almost the same as a 'Quest hog'. I'd love to see someone with equal or greater RP skill step up to the plate and take a firm grip on the House. Hell, I'll settle for Altasren.

[SpunGirl]

I know where Tayre is coming from, but I've said before I respect Valicar a lot as a player, and I DO. I can see a valid problem with Val (are we allowed to call him that?) running White Haven as well as the Fury, and this is what it is:

There have been many times in the past that Valicar has dissapeared, once for a damn good reason, and a few times without a single word, IM, or email to anyone. He'll be gone for weeks and weeks or even months in some cases. Once, Chantreuse (sp?) took over the Fury and everyone was happy-cozy. Valicar came back, changed a lot of the things she had done to make it better, and she quit. So the Fury lost a really valuable leader.

Another time, same thing, mysterious dissapearance - so a few of the bigwigs in the Fury got together and decided to name Grandevr as the new leader at the upcoming Fury banquet. Wouldn't ya know it, the day before, Valicar suddenly shows up again and all other plans are scrapped.

Everyone has the right to pop in and out of the game as they please, but I think Valicar's history of doing just that could do damage to White Haven, as it has done to the Fury. That should be reason enough.

I still respect him as a player. He has done a LOT.

-K

[Ilvane]

I wish that everyone would tone down a bit on getting rid of the officers in favor of others. I don't mind Valicar, but to even start running for something before it's something that is going to happen, is not cool.

I don't particularily think that the White Haven officers have done a good job with everything..don't get me wrong. But, I also think that we as members have a responsibilty to get it moving and have events. It doesn't take an officer to do an event...we could do service nights without them, we could do anything without them, with the exception of inductions, which I think Kisharra can do..and she's around quite a bit.

That's just my take on things.

-A

[Methais]

<<I'd like to think I'm one of the oldest people around who really doesn't throw his/her weight and power around. As long as people respect my opinion and knowledge, I usually don't have problems with anyone. In the case with Valicar. I personally have always hated PRO's, and I doubt anything in game will happen to make me think otherwise. From an in-character standpoint, an old bard could single-handedly wipe out a room of hundreds of PC's and critters in the blink of an eye with sonic disruption.>>

Yep, that's basically my view on it too. The Fury is a joke if you ask me. Arkans convinced me to go to a meeting once when he was in it and it was nauseating. If only it wasn't against the rules to cast major e-wave and kill them all in the blink of an eye...which is another reason why I agree with Soulpieced about PROs.

They can act as high and mighty as they want, but it would only take one cast from a highly trained character to kill the entire army in 3 seconds :P

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Methais
<<I'd like to think I'm one of the oldest people around who really doesn't throw his/her weight and power around. As long as people respect my opinion and knowledge, I usually don't have problems with anyone. In the case with Valicar. I personally have always hated PRO's, and I doubt anything in game will happen to make me think otherwise. From an in-character standpoint, an old bard could single-handedly wipe out a room of hundreds of PC's and critters in the blink of an eye with sonic disruption.>>

Yep, that's basically my view on it too. The Fury is a joke if you ask me. Arkans convinced me to go to a meeting once when he was in it and it was nauseating. If only it wasn't against the rules to cast major e-wave and kill them all in the blink of an eye...which is another reason why I agree with Soulpieced about PROs.

They can act as high and mighty as they want, but it would only take one cast from a highly trained character to kill the entire army in 3 seconds :P

Well gee, why should anyone with a low level character bother to play at all is your opinion?

The Fury allows groups of players pcs to work together and lets them roleplay how a group might actually work. Shocking concept that.

I guess we should all close up shop and let only those above the cap do anything though, huh?

Capital Idea, fantastic thinking.:rolleyes:

The Northern Fury really isn't about tactics or combined power.

Let's face it, no matter how poorly the PCs do an invasion will ALWAYS go away and the PCs will ALWAYS claim victory. The point of PRO, such as the Fury, is really for role-playing. If you think of the Fury as something that actually wins the invasions for people then you are definatly mistaken.

For some characters a military sort of PRO is a fun break from the hunt/rest cycle. So, while true that a single PC can whipe out the Fury, or any other PRO, the fact remains that said PROs are generally something fun to RP if that is what your character would.

- Arkans

[Trinitis]

My biggest complaints with the fury is the invasions. Being a sorcerer, I cannot cast any of my mass spells without harming people, fact of life. But when I'm trying to assist with an invasion, and a group of 5 fury members walk into the room, it normally looks something like this :

Grandver's group arrives.
prep 705
>
Your spell is ready.
grandver preps a spell
warrior mstrikes and kills a critter
>
warrior mstrikes and kills a critter
>
warrior mstrikes and kills a critter
>
warrior mstrikes and kills a critter
>
warrior mstrikes and kills a critter
>
warrior mstrikes and kills a critter
>
warrior mstrikes and kills a critter
>
warrior mstrikes and kills a critter
>
warrior mstrikes and kills a critter
>
warrior mstrikes and kills a critter
>
warrior mstrikes and kills a critter
>
You point at a critter, but its already dead.
Grandver cones and kills the rest
>
Grandver cones and kills the rest
>
Grandver cones and kills the rest
>
Grandver cones and kills the rest
>
Grandver cones and kills the rest
>
Grandver cones and kills the rest
>
Grandver cones and kills the rest
>
Grandver cones and kills the rest
>
Grandver cones and kills the rest
>
Grandver cones and kills the rest
>
Grandver cones and kills the rest
>
Grandver cones and kills the rest
>
sigh
You sigh.


Not to say its always Grandver. I've seen groups of 4 or 5 warriors in the fury walk into a room, and completely destroy every single invader, then move on to the next room to repeat the process soon as their Mstrike fatuge runs out. It sure takes the fun for non-fury memebers out of the fight.

-Adredrin

[Methais]

<<Well gee, why should anyone with a low level character bother to play at all is your opinion?>>

Thanks for stuffing those words into my mouth. Next time take the words and shove them up your ass if you're gonna blatantly misquote someone.

<<The Fury allows groups of players pcs to work together and lets them roleplay how a group might actually work. Shocking concept that.>>

That's all fine and dandy, but when something happens and they show up and decide they're "in charge" of the situation, that's where I say "And you're going to stop me how?"

<<I guess we should all close up shop and let only those above the cap do anything though, huh? >>

Go for it. I'm not above the cap anyway ;)

[Edited on 8-3-2003 by Methais]

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by Methais



Thanks for stuffing those words into my mouth. Next time take the words and shove them up your ass if you're gonna blatantly misquote someone.


Well seeing as how I quoted you exactly I'm not quite sure how I misquoted you at all.

If on the other hand you are meaning I paraphrased poorly then please do clarify where my error was made.



That's all fine and dandy, but when something happens and they show up and decide they're "in charge" of the situation, that's where I say "And you're going to stop me how?"


I have not seen them come in and tell people who are not members in the Fury how to act. Individuals may have, but if you bring a problem to the attention of the leaders of the Fury, they have quickly addresed such issues in the past.

I don't actually like the player of Valicar all that much personally and I would not join any group where one person can simply decide anything about the group as a whole. I also agree he has stepped on some of the toes (stomped some would say) of leaders who stepped up in his absence but all in all I don't know of a better run PRO.

[Parkbandit]

Remember that is a roleplaying game. If you go by sheer game mechanics.. you are correct Methais.. you have more levels on most characters in the game and with meteor swarm, major ewave or fire storm, you could wipe out the whole Fury.

Take that as a problem with the mechanics of the game and not as a PRO. If they only took the game mechanics of the game into their selection process... all candidates would have to be at cap or above to join. Kind of silly don't you think?

They are roleplaying that they are a military group who's primary responsibility is the defense of towns during invasions.

Like Skirmisher, I don't think there's a more active and better run PRO in the game today.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by LordAdredrin
My biggest complaints with the fury is the invasions. Being a sorcerer, I cannot cast any of my mass spells without harming people, fact of life. But when I'm trying to assist with an invasion, and a group of 5 fury members walk into the room, it normally looks something like this :


Watching them during the Jant Invasion this past month.. I noticed something about the Fury. I never once heard them say no to anyone that wanted to join their party.. Fury member or not. My rogue couldn't handle the Sentries solo if there was a group of 3 or more because they were some 30 levels above him. I joined the Fury hunting party and together we cleaned the town up.

[Edaarin]

Heh, my rogue couldn't handle the sentries solo if there was more than one in a room...even when there was only a lone sentry, still got nailed 40% of the time when I whiffed the initial ambush.

Still found it amusing though that I could kill them in one shot.

[Methais]

<<Well seeing as how I quoted you exactly I'm not quite sure how I misquoted you at all. >>

Hmm, let's see. You said....

<<<<Well gee, why should anyone with a low level character bother to play at all is your opinion?>>

I said...

<< They can act as high and mighty as they want, but it would only take one cast from a highly trained character to kill the entire army in 3 seconds>>

Now tell me exactly where I said something to the extent of why low level players should bother to play at all?

Perhaps I used the wrong choice of words in my original post. I don't see the Fury in itself as a joke, but rather the bad taste some of its members have left in my mouth as my first impression of the Fury. First impressions go a long way.

<<Remember that is a roleplaying game. If you go by sheer game mechanics.. you are correct Methais.. you have more levels on most characters in the game and with meteor swarm, major ewave or fire storm, you could wipe out the whole Fury.

Take that as a problem with the mechanics of the game and not as a PRO.>>

So what would you blame it on if a group of boy scouts were wiped out by one Navy SEAL? Would that be due to a problem with the mechanics of the world?

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Methais
So what would you blame it on if a group of boy scouts were wiped out by one Navy SEAL? Would that be due to a problem with the mechanics of the world?

If you can't see the difference in real life and a fantasy game.. I can't help you.

[Sumone]

Don't worry Tayre. We have begun joining White Haven. We have enough people to fill every officer position, and we have gained enough wealth to buy plenty of votes. We couldn't resist joining after seeing the current corruption in the house.

Now quitting reading this stupid thread and visit our website:
http://www20.brinkster.com/gsdumplings/

[Methais]

<<If you can't see the difference in real life and a fantasy game.. I can't help you.>>

Heh. Loosen up.

[Reyek]

you know them boy scouts are pretty handy with a pocket knife. might end up kicking the seals ass =-)

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Methais
<<If you can't see the difference in real life and a fantasy game.. I can't help you.>>

Heh. Loosen up.

Hey, I'm always loose :) I'm just saying there is a huge difference between you putting down the Fury because you can kill them all.. and your real life example of a Navy Seal taking out a whole troop of Boy Scouts.

I don't know the Fury or Valicar much... and I don't know any history about the current situation. I do hear the Fury on the white net and have seen them in action during invasions and it seems to be a very organized and well roleplayed PRO.