Democrats in Panic Mode?

[GSTamral]

The following was taken from the Wall Street Journal Editorials.
<<<
Buyer's Remorse
Dems start to worry that Kerry can't win.

Monday, May 3, 2004 12:01 a.m. EDT
It's six months until the election, and Democrats are already having buyer's remorse. The Bush campaign "is kicking Kerry's ass every damn day," one prominent Democratic operative told the Washington Post last week. "Kerry hasn't owned one day in the news yet. Not one day!"

Some liberals are so frantic that they want to pull the plug. Village Voice columnist James Ridgeway says prominent Democrats should "sit down with the rich and arrogant presumptive nominee and try to persuade him to take a hike" and withdraw. Call that the Torricelli option, after the former New Jersey senator who was muscled out of the race by party elders.

That's not going to happen. First, John Forbes Kerry has wanted to be president ever since he hung around the Kennedy family compound as a teenager. He's not going to let any of the same pooh-bahs who only last December wrote him off as a primary contender drive him from the race now. Second, Mr. Kerry's convention delegates are loyal to him and not easily transferable. There was similar grumbling about dumping Bill Clinton in the summer of 1992 when he was running third in polls behind both George Bush and Ross Perot. Nothing came of it.

But that doesn't mean that the worries about John Kerry's electability are going away. Time magazine columnist Joe Klein says Mr. Kerry is "engulfed by the sort of people Howard Dean railed against: timid congressional Democratic staff members and some of the old Clinton crowd. . . . Kerry's may be the most sclerotic presidential campaign since Bob Dole's." Ouch.

<<...OLE_Obj...>>
Liberals know they are stuck with Mr. Kerry, but that's not preventing them from worrying about his tendency to appear to take both sides of an issue. The irony is that Mr. Kerry has wanted the White House so badly, and for so long, that he has become almost a caricature of an opportunistic, programmed candidate. The resulting image turns off many voters who sense that not much is motivating him beyond blind ambition. For example, many voters may not feel comfortable with Mr. Bush's religious impulses and motivations, but they highlight the image he conveys of a sincere, committed leader.

It is traditional for party activists to grumble about their prospective nominee between the time he wraps up the primaries and when he is actually nominated. But the doubts about Mr. Kerry go beyond campaign kvetching. At times, they seem to verge on quiet panic.
>>>

My take on this. I dont think Kerry can win, but its a bit early to count the chickens. He's usually a strong finisher, and he'll have to hope his piss poor debating skills are better than GW's piss poor debating skills. My call is neither one is capable of answering a single question as it was asked.

[Fengus]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Bush can't win.

All this talk now is meaninless, voters don't care, they sure as hell aren't going to gear up for an election which isn't taking place anytime soon. These quotes you have are from stupid people, any one that thinks a person running for president can outshine the president in the news 6 months from an election is plain dumb.

Give it a rest, and vote your vote when it comes time.

[Artha]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Bush can't win.

I disagree. Bush will win.

Sorry, you can't successfully run a campaign on "We don't like him either, but at least he isn't Bush!"

[GSLeloo]

Hey, I'd vote for anyone that wasn't Bush. It all depends on how the next few months go... if gas prices keep rising, the death toll keeps rising in Iraq, things like the torture pictures keep coming out, who knows if Bush will be in office or not. I personally don't want to keep in a man who could potentially send my generation by Force off to war.

But I wish there was one good democrat running for office...

[Artha]

I personally don't want to keep in a man who could potentially send my generation by Force off to war.

You do realise this'll never happen, right? We have over a million people in the army, and 100,000ish are in Iraq. The death toll is something like 530-550 at the last count I saw.

Well, Bush has nothing to do with the torture pictures, that is a military issue beyond his reach.

There also is no chance for the draft to come around again. There are hundreds of thousands of military personnel who have not come close to being called up yet. The Depth of the United States military is far greater than the media leads people to think.

You are aslo a woman so you have nothing to worry about. :yes:

2.2 million people in the military :grin:

The people that vote for Kerry based on "Anyone but Bush" are a really small minority. Usually radical leftist, interest groups, or partisan democrats.

The reason why I believe Bush *will* be re-elected is most Americans mayu not be happy with how Bush is running the country, but they'd rather have the "evil they know, rather than the evil they don't"

Lastly, Kerry has a very weak personality and he's getting nailed hard for it. The American people don't want a weak President right now.

- Arkans

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by The Edine
2.2 million people in the military :grin: How many of those are combat troops, E?

Every last man.
In today’s wars all troops in Iraq are combat from the truck drivers to the medics

Edit: before anyone jumps on it yes not all can be combat troops for logistic reasons

Edit again to make it sound better.
[Edited on 5-5-2004 by The Edine]

[Edited on 5-5-2004 by The Edine]

[Ilvane]

I think Kerry will be the nominee, and there isn't much of a shout of anything to get him out, except for maybe the extreme left..who would have loved Dean. I would have been hard pressed to vote for Dean, and I'm a left-ish Democrat(not that left, though)

Precisely when does Bush start to become accountable for what is happening in Iraq, Edine?

I mean, he is the "Commander in Chief", no?

How is that out of is reach, exactly?

[Artha]

How is that out of is reach, exactly?

What do you want him to do, walk into Abu Ghraib and shout "I HAVE YOU NOW!!!!" right before they finish the human pyramid?

[Edited on 5-5-2004 by Artha]

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by Ilvane
I think Kerry will be the nominee, and there isn't much of a shout of anything to get him out, except for maybe the extreme left..who would have loved Dean. I would have been hard pressed to vote for Dean, and I'm a left-ish Democrat(not that left, though)

Precisely when does Bush start to become accountable for what is happening in Iraq, Edine?

I mean, he is the "Commander in Chief", no?

How is that out of is reach, exactly?

Not to de-value those who have given there life, but there have been less casualties in the whole operations then there have been in single battles or even hours in past wars.

I will assume you said that just to start an argument and not because you think that he could have done anything to stop 7 soldiers from not following the training they received.
If you want him to micromanage the war I think that would cause an even larger problem.
If you really need me to explain it to you Ilvane please ask the question again so I can be sure, but I think you have enough common sense to answer it on your own.

[Hulkein]

Heh, I thought she was talking about the deaths, not that disgusting shit that happened with the soldiers.. People actually trying to place blame of what a dozen soldiers did on Bush's soldiers? Geez

half dozen Hulkein, don't go making it sound any worse than it is :grin:

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by The Edine
half dozen Hulkein, don't go making it sound any worse than it is

You should maybe stay current with the news. It's already much worse.

http://makeashorterlink.com/?Y22952638

And yes, Bush is going to be blamed for it because he started this war. I'll even go so far as to say it's not really right. But it will happen. And he's doing a fine job of making it worse for himself by not even letting Congress know about it all till today. Way to piss off even your own party, Dubya.

Raven

[Nakiro]

I will place twenty dollar bets that Geroge W. Bush will win the presidental election.

Kerry is a fucking moron. That is all.

[GSTamral]

<<
I think Kerry will be the nominee, and there isn't much of a shout of anything to get him out, except for maybe the extreme left..who would have loved Dean. I would have been hard pressed to vote for Dean, and I'm a left-ish Democrat(not that left, though)
>>

Just a correction here. Dean is quite further along to the right on most every issue from Kerry. Kerry is Kennedy style left. His affiliations with the Kennedy family will cost him dearly amongst moderates, who still have enough memory to know a family that got rich by smuggling drugs and alcohol into the country, and associate his brand of liberalism to the state stupid enough to put their kindred in office for so long.

Edwards is actually further to the right than Bush fiscally, and more liberal socially. An ideal candidate for my vote actually. Moreover, he is still young enough to truly care. Kerry and Dean are career politicians who are so far out of touch with reality that neither is trustworthy enough to have command of anything more than a staple gun. Dean was further to the right both fiscally and socially than Kerry, who is about as far left as any politician in the Senate.

[Warriorbird]

Bush is going to win. Doesn't make me thrilled about it. Sure I dislike him a whole lot... but Kerry has no real sand as a politician, and isn't nearly the schmoozer Clinton was.

[Warriorbird]

BTW... shouldn't this be in off topic?

Voting for someone because he is not someone else is fucking retarded.

[Nakiro]

Originally posted by RangerD1
Voting for someone because he is not someone else is fucking retarded.


Hence democrats.

[Ravenstorm]

Because if you feel someone is doing a lousy job, you should leave him in it of course. What amazing logic!

Sorry, no. You're missing the point that 'anyone but Bush' means that anyone will do a better job than Bush. I suppose I should rephrase that to be 'almost anyone but Bush' though. I probably wouldn't vote for someone in a coma over Bush. We already have someone near that level of mentation fucking up the country after all.

/hijacking

Raven

[Latrinsorm]

Jon Stewart makes fun of both candidates the same. WHO SHOULD I PICK?!?!?

[GSLeloo]

I don't agree with most political people, I have my own beliefs and most don't fit that. But with all the crap Bush has pulled I want him out of office at all costs. Bush got us into this war and so in a way whatever happens over there falls on his soldiers. Those soldiers never could've done that had they not been there in the first place.

I hate war and I hate those who push for war.

[Ravenstorm]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm
Jon Stewart makes fun of both candidates the same. WHO SHOULD I PICK?!?!?

Nader!

Raven

[DeV]

Originally posted by Artha

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Bush can't win.

I disagree. Bush will win.

Sorry, you can't successfully run a campaign on "We don't like him either, but at least he isn't Bush!" I agree, the dummy will win again. We just have to live with it for 4 more years.

[Jenisi]

I dunno if it'll prove anything.. but my grandpa has theories that a few weeks before the election gas prices will fall and something big will happen like they will find osama bin laden and whatever right before it too, making it imminate for Bush to win. He thinks we already know where he is, Bush is just waiting for the right time to gather support.. we'll see!

[TheEschaton]

I've got a bad feeling that Bush'll win. But I'll be mailing in my vote for KErry from Africa, though in NY, it doesn't seem to really matter.

I bet you if I was running, I could fucking beat Bush. Toolbox.

-TheE-

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by TheEschaton
I bet you if I was running, I could fucking beat Bush. Toolbox.You don't have any respect for the dollar! Er.. that was last week. Hmmm.

I'd finally be able to see someone I know on the Daily Show, I guess. :D

[Artha]

Gas prices are going to fall, which is why they're going up now. Saw it either here or on fark. I doubt the Osama capture, but I guess it's possible.

[Fengus]

Originally posted by Arkans
The people that vote for Kerry based on "Anyone but Bush" are a really small minority. Usually radical leftist, interest groups, or partisan democrats.

..."evil they know, rather than the evil they don't"


I'm not one of those and I'm voting for whoever the democrats put up.
Of course they (democats) are dumb, our system is dumb. If you want a logical or intelligent system go assimulate with the borg, humans do not have those traits.

And I hope Nader will pull his head out of his ass and quits wasting time and votes. You have to force the party to get change the american public doesn't care, and the tools wasting their votes are just that.

I doubt he'll run, last time the mark was 5% which he didn't get so "assumbably" the green party will not run Nader again.


His daddy didn't get reelected and his platform was the same. I think the big issue here is that many of you are forgetting that Bush stole his first election. He barely got in running against the most boring man alive, now Kerry will have no problem at all trouncing him.

[Artha]

so "assumbably" the green party will not run Nader again.

He's running as an Independant, instead of a Green.



Bush stole his first election.

Uh...no. All the (media-conducted, the actual ones were halted) recounts point toward Bush, and the point is moot anyway. We have an electoral college who votes, the popular vote only serves to guide them.

[Nakiro]

Originally posted by Fengus
I think the big issue here is that many of you are forgetting that Bush stole his first election. He barely got in running against the most boring man alive, now Kerry will have no problem at all trouncing him.

Sorry, if you are too retarded to figure out how to opperate a voting ballet, you're too retarded to have your vote count.

[Artha]

But what if it looks like this!?!!?


http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~nmuntal/images/Bush%20ballot.JPG

[Ilvane]

I think it's time to stop with the last election and concentrate on convincing people that Bush should not be elected, again.

I can give you a thesis on it.;)

-A

[Edited on 5-5-2004 by Ilvane]

[Artha]

I wish I could vote for Bush :(

Damn you, not being born until 1987!

[Fengus]

Originally posted by Nakiro

Originally posted by Fengus
I think the big issue here is that many of you are forgetting that Bush stole his first election. He barely got in running against the most boring man alive, now Kerry will have no problem at all trouncing him.

Sorry, if you are too retarded to figure out how to opperate a voting ballet, you're too retarded to have your vote count.

WRONG! We aren't in a technocracy we have a democracy, all people equal. And it wasn't retards anyway, it was more like those with aged eyesight.

Wether there was trickery or not, it still was pretty close and like I said most boring man alive...