Need help.

[trueoutsoldier]

Im getting started on a two OHE ambush and picking rogue and can't figure out where to best spend my TP's. Here's what I have so far:
(at level 7), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Two Weapon Combat..................| 58 12
Armor Use..........................| 45 9
Shield Use.........................| 54 11
Edged Weapons......................| 74 16
Ambush.............................| 54 11
Physical Fitness...................| 54 11
Dodging............................| 54 11
Arcane Symbols.....................| 30 6
Magic Item Use.....................| 25 5
Survival...........................| 45 9
Disarming Traps....................| 93 21
Picking Locks......................| 93 21
Stalking and Hiding................| 74 16
Perception.........................| 93 21
Climbing...........................| 20 4
Swimming...........................| 5 1


Can use any and all help/idea's.
I want to atleast wear brig, double in OHE, TWC, stalk/hide, and triple for picking.

[NocturnalRob]

Why are you training in shield use if you're TWC? Way too much Arcane and MIU for this early. If you're serious about picking, save up for 403 and 404

[RaJu Denjik]

at level 25), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 126 33
Shield Use.........................| 99 23
Combat Maneuvers...................| 132 36
Edged Weapons......................| 154 54
Ambush.............................| 150 50
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 40 8
Physical Fitness...................| 143 43
Dodging............................| 155 55
Arcane Symbols.....................| 50 10
Magic Item Use.....................| 25 5
Harness Power......................| 50 10
Disarming Traps....................| 157 57
Picking Locks......................| 156 56
Stalking and Hiding................| 150 50
Perception.........................| 150 50
Climbing...........................| 50 10
Swimming...........................| 15 3

thats my build i do fine

[trueoutsoldier]

I was under the impresion that the shield use assists in raising my ds which is in the lower 30s before spells. I know the miu and arcane are large they are just fillers till I have enough for the 400's.

[Bobmuhthol]

Shield use only increases DS when you're holding a shield. You should move those points to extra dodge ranks for DS but you might be better off using them elsewhere.

[NocturnalRob]

I know the miu and arcane are large they are just fillers till I have enough for the 400's.
Or you could not spend the TPs on MIU and Arcane and actually spend them on the spells themselves. Just a thought.


Shield use only increases DS when you're holding a shield. You should move those points to extra dodge ranks for DS but you might be better off using them elsewhere.
^^This.

[trueoutsoldier]

so i removed the shield use and the miu and arc sym and got 401, 5 dodge ranks, 1PT, 2 stalk, and 2 armor.

any other helpful tips or idea's?

[Victorj]

It seems like you're still within your 30 days, so I would drop all your skills, 2x thw, cm, pt, dodge and whatever else you want. Get a claid, power hunt until the last day or so, and then redo your skills to whatever you want. IMO, ambushing is pretty worthless at lower levels since you'll be missing a lot of the times, and there's no reason to pick at lower levels since you'll barely be able to open your own boxes anyways. You might as well get to 15-20 or so during your first 30 days. That way, you have more ranks and will actually be able to use the higher end lockpicks to pick, and actually hit stuff when ambushing.

If you're gonna try to stick with this path, try and get some CM since weapon swingers will need the extra AS boost later on, especially as an ambusher. Also, I would drop survival unless you want to skin or something.

[trueoutsoldier]

I am gonna be skinning and foraging alot so the survival is an extra. I think ill try the thw power hunt except I like killing the undead and claids arn't blessable. I know getting to 20 in the first 30 would be awesome but at the rate im going its only been a few days and im 8.

[LMingrone]

CM is way more important than all those extra skills. Unless you plan on getting 425 or 430. I'd drop MIU, AS, and shield. But if you like the build, who cares what I think?

[AnticorRifling]

If you're gonna try to stick with this path, try and get some CM since weapon swingers will need the extra AS boost later on, especially as an ambusher.

Why "especially as an ambusher"?

[NocturnalRob]

Why "especially as an ambusher"?
No reason. He's confused. CM only helps when aiming from the open.

[Victorj]

Why "especially as an ambusher"?

As an ambusher because you need enough AS to break that first rank damage threshold so your phantom ranks kick in. With 0 CM, you're missing out on a ton of AS. Even 1 point could mean the difference between a 4 damage scratch and a killshot.

[NocturnalRob]

Even 1 point could mean the difference between a 4 damage scratch and a killshot.
Please provide the math behind this assertion.

[AnticorRifling]

As an ambusher because you need enough AS to break that first rank damage threshold so your phantom ranks kick in. With 0 CM, you're missing out on a ton of AS. Even 1 point could mean the difference between a 4 damage scratch and a killshot.

But doesn't the fact that you're ambushing mean your target is going to have a lower DS so that hitting the threshold should be easier than a toe to toe shot of the same AS?

[NocturnalRob]

But doesn't the fact that you're ambushing mean your target is going to have a lower DS so that hitting the threshold should be easier than a toe to toe shot of the same AS?
Only from hiding.

[Victorj]

Please provide the math behind this assertion.

Here you go.

I'm going to use a dagger vs double leathers. Damage threshold is 6 to get the first rank. Damage is rounded up.

DF of dagger vs leather = .200

5.5/.2 = 27.5, so you need an enroll of 128 to hit the 6 damage threshold for your phantom ranks to kick in. With a 127, you get 5 damage and no phantom ranks.

That's how ambushing from hiding works. You need to do the 5/6/7/9/11 damage (skin/leather/rigid/chain/plate) for the first rank so your phantom ranks kick in. That's why as an ambusher, you should go for a highly enchanted or perfect weapon.

[NocturnalRob]

4.5/.2 = 22.5, so you need an enroll of 123 to hit the 5 damage threshold for your phantom ranks to kick in. With a 122, you get 4 damage and no phantom ranks.
Even with phantom ranks, you're not critting anyone with an endroll of 123 with a dagger vs double leather. Sorry.

[AnticorRifling]

Only from hiding.

Correct, I meant from hiding I always forget about open ambushers.

[Victorj]

But doesn't the fact that you're ambushing mean your target is going to have a lower DS so that hitting the threshold should be easier than a toe to toe shot of the same AS?

Of course. But if you compare two ambushers, one with 0 ranks and one with say 50 ranks of CM (25 AS), the ambusher with 50 ranks could kill with a droll 25 lower. ie, one will need a droll of 40 to get the kill and one would need 65, assuming that the mob has the same DS, both ambushers swinging same weapon, etc. I think that 25% chance to kill is huge.

[LMingrone]

In my opinion CM is more important in avoiding other things using CMs. If you're a TWC ambusher you should be hasted 24/7, MOC, spelled to the max and not be using a dagger unless you're aiming for eyes.

[Victorj]

Even with phantom ranks, you're not critting anyone with an endroll of 123 with a dagger vs double leather. Sorry.

Okay, here is an example of what I am taking about.

H>amb
You leap from hiding to attack!
You swing with a studded leather sap at a minotaur magus!
AS: +396 vs DS: +258 with AvD: +21 + d100 roll: +2 = +161
... and hit for 5 points of damage!
Love tap upside the minotaur magus's head!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
* Aoifekyna returns home from a hard day of adventuring.
Licks of ethereal blue flame surround a minotaur magus's hooves as he regains his footing once again.
R>hide
...wait 1 seconds.
R>hide
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
* Vrekk has disconnected.
* Stjarn joins the adventure.
HR>amb
You leap from hiding to attack!
You swing with a studded leather sap at a minotaur magus!
AS: +396 vs DS: +308 with AvD: +21 + d100 roll: +38 = +147
... and hit for 4 points of damage!
Love tap upside the minotaur magus's head!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
A minotaur magus begins rumbling while making mystic gestures through the air.
R>hide
Roundtime: 3 sec.
You attempt to blend with the surroundings and feel confident that no one has noticed your doing so.
A minotaur magus scans through the shadows suspiciously.
Huffing in annoyance, the minotaur magus scans the area with suspicious eyes, the tips of his fingers casting a searching light ahead.
[LNet]-GSIV:Ayas: "and why wouldn't they be showing the proper duractions?"
>amb
* Goldeath joins the adventure.
You leap from hiding to attack!
You swing with a studded leather sap at a minotaur magus!
AS: +396 vs DS: +308 with AvD: +21 + d100 roll: +54 = +163
... and hit for 56 points of damage!
Incredible blast shatters head into a red spray.
One last prolonged bovine moan escapes from the minotaur magus as he falls still against the floor.
The opalescent aura fades from around a minotaur magus.
The deep blue glow leaves a minotaur magus.
The brilliant aura fades away from a minotaur magus.
A subtle light fades from a minotaur magus's eyes.
The dim aura fades from around a minotaur magus.
The light blue glow leaves a minotaur magus.
The powerful look leaves a minotaur magus.
Roundtime: 4 sec.

161 endroll, nothing, 163 endroll, kill shot.

[NocturnalRob]

I haven't played in a while, but I'm pretty sure a leather sap is not the same as a dagger.

[Victorj]

I haven't played in a while, but I'm pretty sure a leather sap is not the same as a dagger.

No, it's a blackjack. Magus is wearing studded leather. I just used dagger vs double leather because it's .2 df, so the math would be easy.

Edit, seems you're right about the endroll not killing, seems my crit divisors are wrong. Its 5/6/7/9/11 instead of 3/5/7/9/11. I'll go edit the math on the previous page.

[NocturnalRob]

No, it's a blackjack. Magus is wearing studded leather. I just used dagger vs double leather because it's .2 df, so the math would be easy.
Ah, gotcha. How many ranks of CM does that character have?

[Victorj]

Ah, gotcha. How many ranks of CM does that character have?

The char is fully 1x in cm at 94 (I was just in minos trying to do some subdue reps). With 0 ranks in cm, I would lose 47 AS, and would need a perfect 100 droll to roll the 162 I need to kill the mino. Obviously, I could've use a better weapon, but here is the math for that.

Blackjack vs rigid df = .09
Need 6 damage for phantom ranks (studded leather doesn't cover head, so uses soft leather 6 instead of 7)

5.5/.09 = 61.11. 61 as you saw did not kill. 62 (or 63 in the example cause I don't have a 62 one) should kill.

[IorakeWarhammer]

thats pretty remarkable

[DaCapn]

To the original poster, this is rather cookie-cutter and reasonable:

~1.5x AU (according to goals)
2x OHE
2x TWC
1x CM
2x Ambush
1x PT
2x Dodge
2x Disarm
2x Picking
2x Hide
2x Perception

That leaves some points for a few ranks of splash skills (MOC, AS, MIU, climb). You should be able to pull off being in brig with 404 by around level 30.