for the folks that say I think Simu can do no wrong

[Warriorbird]

You notice Octofrye reach into your sable cashmere longcoat and remove a large black pearl!

accuse Octofrye

A town official listens attentively to your plea before saying, "Eh? I don't know anyone by that name that is in town right now. You sure you got their name right?"

A town official listens attentively to your plea before saying, "Eh? I don't know anyone by that name that is in town right now. You sure you got their name right?"

find Octofrye

There are no adventurers questing that match the names specified.

>report I just caught Octofryethieving from me and they left the game

>assist request I recently caught Octofrye thieving from me and they left the game

Your request has been sent to the GMs currently on duty.
You are number 7 in the queue.
You may cancel your request for assistance at any time by clicking ASSIST CANCEL.

***** The GemStone IV staff thanks you for reporting this problem. However, they feel it is more appropriate for you to use ASSIST for this issue. They wish to help all players fairly, in first-come, first-served order.

>report Err, aren't we supposed to do both?

SEND[Brauden] Nah, that's not a emergency that warrants a REPORT. Perfectly addressable via ASSIST tho. Thanks.

>report And then when the GH comes they'll say, "Why didn't you report it?" Seems like you're deflecting customer service again.

SEND[Brauden] Deflecting customer service? Okay, I'll rule on it right now then. The situation you reported doesn't warrant GameMaster intervention. Feel free to ignore those issues if they creep up again in the future. Thanks.

SEND[Brauden] but if you'd like to discuss, feel free to ASSIST and a GameHost will be more then happy to discuss it with you.

>report Right. I think the boards are far more appropriate.

SEND[Brauden] Wonderful idea

>report Just because you like power tripping doesn't mean that's a way to run a business.

>report I'd also already assisted.

SEND[Brauden] I'm not tripping nor am I running a business. I am merely telling you exactly what our stance is on the situation you reported and I've given you the proper avenue to discuss.


I'm sure he's a fabulous coder. I highly question him being allowed to be involved in customer service in the slightest. Considering the other issues that I imagine are out there that were much worse than mine? Perhaps some further training is in order.

send that into feedback.
Accuse is influence dependent, fyi

[Mistomeer]

Fucking typical. I like the "I'll rule on it right now..." bit.

heh got it he logged out...

[Artha]

accuse Octofrye

Side note: You have to include their crime when you accuse them. Type ACCUSE by itself to see a list of abbreviations and crimes.

[HarmNone]

Heh. I have to agree with you, Warriorbird. Brauden is certainly not the most "user friendly" of the GMs.

People have different personalities. Some are naturals for the Customer Experience team. Others, to put it bluntly, are not. No amount of training can make a silk purse from a sow's ear. ;)

HarmNone

[Warriorbird]

:nods: Log had a lot more stuff in it. I trimmed out all the accuse text and such. I typed it in like four times then did the find command.

[Jack]

So you reported dude for logging out after stealing from you. You expect Brauden to lock him out on the spot? It's a pretty grey area policy wise, if he had logged out when you confronted him I could see action being taken. That was not the case here, and though perhaps Brauden was a bit rude, he was right.

[Warriorbird]

I didn't expect a lockout or any knowledge of punishment that I knew about. I reported him for logging to avoid conflict... something I'd been told I should do in the past by GMs and GHs. I assisted a moment afterward.

[Edited on 5-1-2004 by Warriorbird]

[Hulkein]

No, they won't ever do anything when someone logs out... ever. They used to tell ya to report, I remember that too, but apparently they have changed their stance.

PS.
Brauden is a dickhead.

[Edited on 5-1-2004 by Hulkein]

[Soulpieced]

Abusing game mechanics to get away from being accused and thrown in jail is certainly a reportable offense in my eyes.

[Artha]

How long went between the theft and the accusing?

[Hulkein]

Accuse NEVER works for me, EVER. I've accused at least 5 people seconds after I catch them stealing and never does it work.

[Artha]

Accuse them for Petty Theft.

[Warriorbird]

Less than thirty seconds. Probably in the ten to fifteen second mark.

[Snapp]

I agree that it's a very gray area, but I don't see a need for Brauden to be such a jerk about it.

[Warriorbird]

He just seems to think he's above any standards.

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by Artha
Accuse them for Petty Theft.

That is what I do, still never works.

[Parkbandit]

Deal with it next time you see him then... it's certainly not worth a report or assist in my book.

[Artha]

You had a fairly confrontational attitude too...I'm not surprised at Brauden's response.



>report And then when the GH comes they'll say, "Why didn't you report it?" Seems like you're deflecting customer service again.

>report Just because you like power tripping doesn't mean that's a way to run a business.

[Warriorbird]

If I thought I'd ever see him again... or he'd stayed in game and gotten away from me? I'd have had no problem at all.

Responding to a slightly irked customer with an even more confrontational attitude is not the sort of customer service that should be displayed by a senior GM.

[Warriorbird]

Quabu asks, "Anything else I can do while I am here?"

You say, "I'd been told in the past to report and assist if that happened."

You ask, "Is that no longer what I am supposed to do?"

Quabu says, "You were right to do so."

You say, "Senior GM told me not to."

You gaze up into the heavens.

You chuckle.

Quabu says, "Depends what they meant."

You say, "That's pretty unclear."

Quabu says, "They could mean not to REPORT repeatedly. Once is more than enough to let people know what is happening. Don't REPORT than REPORT five minutes later, for example."

You say, "I got the "Don't report, assist message." after only one."

Quabu says, "You just do what you did."

Quabu says, "Then GMs know it happened and can keep an eye out."

You say, "Seemed as though Brauden had said something different."

Quabu says, "THink of it this way."

Quabu says, "Once you REPORT you open a door for the GM's to look out."

Quabu says, "And from that point on they can."

You say, "I did that."

You say, "But then I got fussed at over it."

You say, "That was what puzzled me, Quabu."

[Artha]

Just a general suggestion...assist first, so they can see you're in the queue if they check, and explain a little better what happened.

I know i'm responding a lot...but it's late and I lose my train of thought easily this time of the night.

[Galleazzo]

Yeah, fuck that, everyone gets told to REPORT and ASSIST both.

Brauden's too senior to be a cluless asshole. Either he needs to get with it and learn what he's supposed to be doing or he should stop fucking responding to customers.

[Warriorbird]

I reported and assisted. If he'd actually checked, he'd have known that. I wonder if he's even gone through customer service training.

[Bobmuhthol]

wtf is the problem? You can't accuse someone that's not in the game? OH MY GOD.

[Tsa`ah]

No Bob, again not even close.

He was reporting mechanics abuse.

The guy stole, got caught, and slammed.

[Bobmuhthol]

I see no slamming. You don't know the time period there. I'm sure I've stolen from someone and left the game a minute later, doesn't mean I did it to avoid being accused.

[Script]>justice warrant

You are wanted for 1 crimes in Wehnimer's Landing. They are:
1 count of petty theft

[Tsa`ah]

Bob needs to work on his reading comprehension skills it seems.

-or-

Bob is a slammer.

[Bobmuhthol]

When I get a full log, then I'll believe what he says. Until then, there was no slamming that I can see.

[Galleazzo]

Logs can be doctored. Either you believe him or you don't, guy. Ain't got no reason not to believe him.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
If I thought I'd ever see him again... or he'd stayed in game and gotten away from me? I'd have had no problem at all.

Responding to a slightly irked customer with an even more confrontational attitude is not the sort of customer service that should be displayed by a senior GM. The GM's are a reflection of the game itself.

[Warriorbird]

I suppose so. Bob, there was less than a minute delay between them. If I showed a full log you wouldn't be able to tell anything different. If I wanted to doctor a log I'd certainly do it over something more interesting than this.

[Celtic]

Originally posted by WarriorbirdI'm sure he's a fabulous coder. I highly question him being allowed to be involved in customer service in the slightest. Considering the other issues that I imagine are out there that were much worse than mine? Perhaps some further training is in order.

Customer service?

From that log, I see that you used REPORT, were told to ASSIST instead of using REPORT as a friendly nudge and you decided to argue it via REPORT.

Dude, it's just a game. No need to get your feathers all ruffled. At least Brauden took the time to answer your report rather then let it go un-answered.

I personally would have highlighted the dude, then find him when he arrives and steal his ass blind right back.

Octofrye is probably a secondary character of someone else, probably Bob. <flees>

[Warriorbird]

I see where you're coming from. It's just when this sort've thing happens multiple times from the same GM you tend to get annoyed. First time I complained about it on boards. I've also never known any of the other GMs to be anywhere near as flat out rude as he is.

[Ilvane]

I have nothing against Brauden, but it wasn't the answer that he gave, but more the way he answered that was not the epitome of customer service.

In my job, if we ever answered in the tone he did, we would get written up...heh.

But then again, he is a sarcastic type too, so maybe that's what he was doing, I'm not sure.

-A

[TheEschaton]

Brauden = teh 1337.

All you h8rs = teh sux0r!!!!11

Edited for clarification: I like sarcastic people. I liked Stump. I even like Ophion.

-TheE

[Edited on 5-2-2004 by TheEschaton]

[Warriorbird]

Yet you didn't typically see either answering referrals or responding to reports from unhappy customers, I imagine?

[SpunGirl]

The issue here is the inconsistencies with which different GMs/GHs view policy. Brauden told you the reporting for that incident was uncessary, while Quabu said something completely different.

Based on my own personal dealings, I'd be more likely to believe Brauden over Quabu. But you both could have been nicer.

-K

[Warriorbird]

So... the whole being confrontational to a frustrated customer bit sailed past you?

[SpunGirl]

You both could have been nicer.

I've been in plenty of situations where I've felt slighted as a customer, and the person on the other end has been rude. I've found that if I'm calm, levelheaded and don't make threats (i.e, "I think this would be better on the boards,") I tend to get more of what I want and less of what I don't need.

Honey vs. vinegar and all that.

-K

[Galleazzo]

Originally posted by TheEschaton
Edited for clarification: I like sarcastic people. I liked Stump. I even like Ophion.
So if you called up your cable company because the channels you wanted weren't working, and the guy answering it sneered "What kind of stupid asshat doesn't know how to use a remote," you'd be down with that?

[CrystalTears]

Even though customers should be nice on general principle, when they're upset, they don't hold back, especially since they are the paying customer and are the reason the GMs (or anything customer support related) has a job.

You don't stop a charging bull by telling him to fuck off. You let him vent and then answer them back nicely. You'd be surprised how nice customers get if they are treated kind and fairly.

People yell at me all day for a product I did not design, I just troubleshoot. I'd rather they not yell at me but they do. I answer them in kind. If they don't respect that part at least, then I can't help them. But I understand why they start off that way. The way Brauden spoke to Warriorbird was not acceptable.

I'm getting increasingly tired of Simu staff treating players as though they're doing them the favor of letting them play their game. With the amount of money people spend on this game, they should be bending over, not vice versa.

[TheEschaton]

So if you called up your cable company because the channels you wanted weren't working, and the guy answering it sneered "What kind of stupid asshat doesn't know how to use a remote," you'd be down with that?

I'd probably laugh. And that would solve half the problem right there.


-TheE-

[Caramia]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
Even though customers should be nice on general principle, when they're upset, they don't hold back, especially since they are the paying customer and are the reason the GMs (or anything customer support related) has a job.

While his answer might not have been the nicest, the accusation by the player was put forth first and sets the tone for how the rest of the conversation goes. I understand being upset, but being snippy doesn't help you.

Adults generally don't go tearing off at displeased service providers with insults, because they know from experience this doesn't get them very far. Nowhere in any customer service company does it say you need to take abuse from the customer.

I've gotten far better results complaining about service in a polite, unantagonistic, calm way than to call up on the phone, act all rude and ugly, and then get pissed off after the customer service representative has cut me off.

You don't know if the other person logged out, when he logged out for sure, or if he disconnected. I would say that if he continued to log out every time you approached him over the next day or two, then yeah, he's avoiding conflict. For crying out loud, we're talking about a pearl, not a 10X weapon!

[Fengus]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
You say, "Senior GM told me not to."
...
You say, "That was what puzzled me, Quabu."


Moooooooommy! Brauden hit meeeee!!!


Sounds to me like you were wasting peoples time. You reported and then assisted, what do you expect them to do drive to his house and force him to log back in? There is no time critical factor there, nor any further danger to your character or the world. It's definately not an emergency.

I really don't know what an emergency would be, being textually raped or otherwise assulted by someone? All I know is I report unprovoked PvP, everything else isn't an emergency.

[Nakiro]

:violin:

What exactly do you guys think Brauden should've done? And why do you think it was such a critical issue that it should've been taken care of immeditly?

[Warriorbird]

Not acted like an ass?

Only reason I reported and assisted was because I'd been told to in the past for similar incidents. It creates a record of what happened and a history for that individual. There was no need for the corny "please assist, not report."

Only reason I did anything at all is I get really tired of people pulling crap and then never being seen again. I have nothing against a thief that flat out escapes me.

[SpunGirl]

The biggest problem here, again, is the discrepancy between Quabu and Brauden.

The second biggest problem is that one hothead decided to snap at someone who is well known for being sarcastic. Again, you both could have been NICER.

Fengus has a point, however. I'd rather Brauden spend his time fixing bugs in the system, re-vamping premium lockers, working on other stuff we all want than putting "pull so-and-so for pearl stealing into the consultation lounge." Really, it was ONE GEM.

I know Simu is a business and we're their customers, but in the last few years I've come to see Simu as more of a community made up of players, staff, and staff who are players (which I think includes most of them). It's a more closely knit relationship than most companies have with their customers.

-K

[Warriorbird]

Well... for some small amount of conclusion... Tigermist answered my referral. She said there's some grey areas out there regarding when to report that aren't very elaborated on, and that they'd be working on informing the Hosts better about those. In essence, Brauden had made the right call. She wasn't entirely thrilled about his tone... or mine either. She offered an SGM referral to me if I felt as though I was being harassed and said they'd both make note of what I said and he'd be told my feelings. I was satisfied with that and declined the SGM referral. I didn't really want to start a witch hunt over it all, just feel as though I was getting listened to/treated with respect.

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by Caramia
Adults generally don't go tearing off at displeased service providers with insults, because they know from experience this doesn't get them very far. Nowhere in any customer service company does it say you need to take abuse from the customer.

I've gotten far better results complaining about service in a polite, unantagonistic, calm way than to call up on the phone, act all rude and ugly, and then get pissed off after the customer service representative has cut me off.

Just because adults shouldn't, doesn't mean they don't. You should sit in my seat for a day and tell me that adults don't curse or complain bitterly when they're upset because the product and/or service they're paying for is unsatisfactory.

We don't put up with yelling and screaming customers, but ranting and bitching comes with the territory. Even though it's not nice to get spoken to in that way, that does NOT give me the right to answer them back in the same tone.

[HarmNone]

Best thing to do, as I understood it (It's been awhile ;) ), is to ASSIST, then REPORT, if you feel a REPORT is warranted.

What could Brauden have done differently? Perhaps, he could have asked "Have you requested an ASSIST and talked to a GameHost yet? If not, please do so. Let the GameHost get the details of what happened, and we will be happy to take a look at it, if it's something we can help you with. That sound okay?"

While I agree that both parties were confrontational, the onus lies with the GameMaster, not with the player, to rise above.

HarmNone

[Ilvane]

Maybe Brauden was having a bad day.

I think maybe it's time to just let it go a bit..I mean, it's all done with now, right?

Maybe he'll read our posts and see how the way he was talking was percieved.

I like Brauden, so I still find it hard to believe that he did that on purpose.:)

-A

[HarmNone]

I doubt Brauden did it on purpose, Angela. However, I do think he might be just a little bit abrasive for customer experience work. Some people have the right personality for it, others do not. It is not a slam on those who do not. It is simply a difference in people. :)

HarmNone

[Fengus]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
I was satisfied with that and declined the SGM referral. I didn't really want to start a witch hunt over it all, just feel as though I was getting listened to/treated with respect.

Man are you a bitch. Lets watch this again




***** The GemStone IV staff thanks you for reporting this problem. However, they feel it is more appropriate for you to use ASSIST for this issue. They wish to help all players fairly, in first-come, first-served order.

>report Err, aren't we supposed to do both?

SEND[Brauden] Nah, that's not a emergency that warrants a REPORT. Perfectly addressable via ASSIST tho. Thanks.


You got the instructions, but you decided that *you* knew their policy better than the GM, so you used report again.

And BTW "err" is a real word that has a real meaning, you used it incorrectly, what you shoulda used was maybe "uhhh", "ahh", or "ohh".

Not sure why Brauden said "thanks" that sounds kinda confrontational, but pales in comparison to your tone.


But instead of ending it there you continue...




>report And then when the GH comes they'll say, "Why didn't you report it?" Seems like you're deflecting customer service again.

SEND[Brauden] Deflecting customer service? Okay, I'll rule on it right now then. The situation you reported doesn't warrant GameMaster intervention. Feel free to ignore those issues if they creep up again in the future. Thanks.


And then when the GH comes and blah blah... Yeah? So? What exactly is the problem there?

You got this all backwards, the GMs are the ones who are far more likely to know policy, the GHs are helpers, they are the dumb people you get when you call any service number; there to solve simple problems. For the more difficult ones you will eventually get a person with technical knowledge, to tell that person what one of the minimum wage idiots said was gospel is foolish.

And what is deflecting service? You say that like its a bad thing, its designed that way. Why pay a person with technical skills to sit around on the phone, or in game to solve problems that any minimum wage highschool kid can solve (or as we see now Indian)? Its buisness, and productivity.

[Edited on 5-4-2004 by Fengus]

[Warriorbird]

Err.... I'd already stopped posting... but man, you're a fucking troll... and that's what makes these boards fun.

Let's break it down.

As regards the rightness of that first message? I'd been told to do differently. I'd already assisted. I'm sorry. You of course possess the logic to automatically know right from wrong with your mystic powers of hindsight. Ain't you hot shit!

And BTW... starting sentences with and is a poor use of style according to Strunk and White... making you a poor excuse for a style critic. One would find if they didn't live with their parents, that out in the real world where people actually hold conversations and chat with people, that folks don't always use perfect grammar in rational discourse.

"Not sure why Brauden said "thanks" that sounds kinda confrontational, but pales in comparison to your tone. "

Because he's consistently sarcastic? Patronizing? But, you being that sort've person yourself couldn't follow those things. You also seem to miraculously grasp all my past interactions.

"But instead of ending it there you continue... "

That describes you pretty well. Do you ever actually start topics yourself?

"Yeah? So? What exactly is the problem there?"

You not knowing a customer service issue if it bit you in the ass and trying to troll on a messageboard? Damn. Edine's a lot more fun.

"You got this all backwards, the GMs are the ones who are far more likely to know policy"

No shit. Maybe they ought to update a few of the hosts...and then maybe events like this wouldn't happen. Or maybe they ought to check the assist cue before they send form letter messages.

"And what is deflecting service? You say that like its a bad thing, its designed that way."

You've obviously never been a customer. You must like those answering machine systems that involve pressing a lot of buttons and not talking to a person.

That was fun. As regards the actual topic? I got what I wanted (though you obviously didn't read that far, other than an attempt to feel superior). Hope you got what you wanted. Be sure to write.

Not that you haven't flamed Simu yourself in other forums.

[Edited on 5-5-2004 by Warriorbird]

[Fengus]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
I'd been told to do differently. I'd already assisted. I'm sorry. You of course possess the logic to automatically know right from wrong with your mystic powers of hindsight.

Its not exactly right and wrong, its sense from nonsense. Here I am talking to a bum on the street who gives me some financial advice, so I tell my accountant to stick it up his ass I already got some advice. Hah, can you spot the grave error?





Maybe they ought to update a few of the hosts...and then maybe events like this wouldn't happen. Or maybe they ought to check the assist cue before they send form letter messages.


Yeah, great, waste more time.




You've obviously never been a customer. You must like those answering machine systems that involve pressing a lot of buttons and not talking to a person.

Not that you haven't flamed Simu yourself in other forums.


What you mean is that I am not a unrealistic customer. Its all about money, sure its annoying to press 20 numbers on your phone, or to talk to 4 different people until one of them knows anything. But none of this is any different than getting extra pickles when you ordered without pickles at your <insert your favorite fastfood>. To get intelligent skilled burger flippers would cost so much that you the customer would find another resturant.

In other words you the customer choose poor service over more expensive food. Deal with it.

[Warriorbird]

It really had little to do with Quabu. I've got a history with Brauden.

I don't think making Hosts make less mistakes is a problem. None the less, I suppose he did his job in getting me to Tigermist who could answer my issues... but if you didn't give Hosts some illusion of the ability to do anything... you wouldn't have any.

I eat out at nice restaurants a lot more than McDonald's. Comparing Simu's prices to some of the avenues out there... I think it falls more into those categories. I at least expect damn Applebee's level service. Normally I get it. Just took some time in this case.

[wanfu-san]

I once accused an empath of stealing and she then spent the next 30 minutes in the stocks.

For all who dont know yet elf bards rock!!

[SpunGirl]

wtf.

-K