GSIV is nothing more than a second rate version of DR

[imported_Kranar]

The more I think about it, the more it becomes apparant that Gemstone is just a second class version of DragonRealms, one without an engagement system so that people can have the luxory of typing in:

prep/cast/search/repeat
hide/ambush/search/repeat

It didn't become so obvious to me as it has now. I decided to look into DragonRealms, and much to my surprise many of the "new" spells being implemented in Gemstone IV are the EXACT same as currently existing spells in DragonRealms. The Savant Profession seems to be nothing more than the Moon Mage. The changes to rogues in GSIV, they already exist and existed for awhile in Dragonrealms... wizard spells too, like Stone Fist and Ice Patch, are already implemented with the same descriptions.

Heck... I thought GSIV was going to be an entirely new game... but seems to me like it's just the same aspects of DragonRealms being brought over to Gemstone.

It's kind of dissapointing, only because someone should have told me sooner! It's time for me to start playing this game!

[StrayRogue]

Is ripping off Unwritten Legends as well. I guess the GMs are pissed off with how many ex-GS staff are there *shrug*

[Artha]

I hate the advancement system in DR. Having played both, I can tell you (with authority) GS is better.

[Soulpieced]

GSIV is also just another another sorry attempt to curb the rich item merchants.

[StrayRogue]

Fight the power Soulpieced!

[imported_Kranar]

I'm playing DR right now and the advancement seems amazing.

The more you practice a skill, the better you get at it. In GS, you can pick locks and somehow that makes you a better swinger, in DR, you pick locks and that makes you a better locksmith.

Anyhow, still a lot of things I have to get used to with DR, but like I said, it's a bit depressing knowing that all these really neat features we've wanted in Gemstone are already in DR.

[StrayRogue]

Trust me, try Unwritten Legends.

[Red Devil]

no, stay with DR it's better.

[StrayRogue]

Do not question me.

[Straight-up]

Umm...newsflash....GS is DR in the past...why would it NOT go in that general direction and have some crossover?

As far as games being similar. There are only SO many unique ideas that work well in fantasy games folks. Storylines are similar in books and games...There are only so many ways you can chop someone up.


Straight

[Artha]

I'm playing DR right now and the advancement seems amazing.

Yeah? Wait until you're grinding things with the mortar and pestle for HOURS.

[StrayRogue]

Artha, meet Slaphands. Slaphands, meet Artha.

[Artha]

Guild skills don't count, because you don't have to do them.

[CrystalTears]

I tried DR once and I couldn't stand it. EVERYTHING was learned through repetition. And if you didn't want to do that, you would need to sit and listen to someone teach you it, so it was more sitting and learning. Oh no way, GS is much better, even if it is a point system of training.

[Kurili]

Players are a great thing to be respected and considered in all of your decisions. Players are not wizard #20, Sorcerer #5, and Savant #12 on Account #45 which is a premium account, Account #2 basic etc.


Must say I agree, WITH a caveat. NOT all GM's are like that, in fact I'd say most arent. It's Simu that needs to learn that, the higher ups.

[Artha]

QyB, Numbers 1901 and 2005.

[imported_Kranar]

<< I tried DR once and I couldn't stand it. EVERYTHING was learned through repetition. >>

Everything in GS is learned through repetitition too.

prep/cast/search/repeat/train
hide/ambush/search/repeat/train

Most GS'ers are used to doing that, so when they go to DR I bet it's very confusing. Like for me it was confusing to learn GS because I was used to graphical games so I thought GS was a piece of crap. But once you get used to it, that's when you're in a good position to determine which game is superior in terms of quality.

[Edited on 8-3-2003 by Kranar]

[Artha]

I'd rather prep/cast/heal/whatever for 10 hours, than hunt for 5, use a mortar and pestle (what is it, grind? crush? I forget) for 3, and sit and let the ship rats swing at me to boost armor for 2.

[Revalos]

I heard that there are people in DR who are basically playing Progress Quest. They have characters logged in 24/7 scripting training in shifts, not AFK. They make about $500 a month doing this for people.

This can also be done in GS3, but since there is only experience through hunting, you have to be more careful in most cases. These people supposedly have upwards of 20 basic accounts logged in all the time in DR.

To me, any roleplaying game where everyone else is zombie scripting all day long isn't a roleplaying game, its Progress Quest.

[Back]

To me, any roleplaying game where everyone else is zombie scripting all day long isn't a roleplaying game, its Progress Quest.

Quote of the year.

[imported_Kranar]

<< This can also be done in GS3, but since there is only experience through hunting, you have to be more careful in most cases. >>

This IS done in Gemstone. You can customize a character for 30 bucks and someone will script hunt them to level 20 in 20 days.

Heck, I for one am script hunting nonstop and made 24 levels 33 days. Both games have their fair share of scripters.

[Soulpieced]

Heck, I for one am script hunting nonstop and made 24 levels 33 days. Both games have their fair share of scripters.

.

I think the point was that it is rampant and requires much less skill to script a repetetive task than an actual hunting script that will not F up when an outsider screws with you or if you get in trouble etc.

[imported_Kranar]

<< I think the point was that it is rampant and requires much less skill to script a repetetive task than an actual hunting script that will not F up when an outsider screws with you or if you get in trouble etc. >>

And my point was that it's rampant in GS too and a lot easier to script in GS.

I personally know of 3 people who bought level 20 characters solely from the 30 dollar scripting service.

[Edited on 8-3-2003 by Kranar]

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by Artha
Guild skills don't count, because you don't have to do them.

Try being a rogue/warrior without guild skills.

[Edaarin]

I got Edaarin to level 50 without mastering any guild skills. Actually, I got him to 47 when gambits came out, and mastered that, but it's not exactly a vital hunting tool. Mastered cheapshot and sweep too, and didn't use them for another 10 levels because I was still hunting in places where the critters would always be in stance offensive (stone sentinels).

But you're right, after you leave Darkstone Castle, sweep pretty much becomes vital to hunting. Having swiftkick helps, but sweeping a critter twice produces the same effect. I'd definitely die more than I already do in the Stronghold without it.

[StrayRogue]

Sweeping a critter twice does what??

[Edaarin]

Well, you sweep it once, then 90% of the time, it'll go to stance offensive to stand back up. Sweep it again, and it's lying down in stance off.

[Red Devil]

IF you can sweep it when it's in defensive.. i always had trouble with that

[StrayRogue]

Well, thats why, (on the first sweep), you wait for him to swing. So then he tends to be in offensive anyway. Waiting all that time for him to stand up etc seems like a waste. If a kill takes me longer than 20 seconds, I am doing something wrong.

[Edaarin]

I dunno, it gets easier as you get more levels. Right now, the highest I've seen an Illoke defend sweep was 260 (it was the equivalent of level 80), and at level 66 my MS is 305. 45% shot on a turtled critter 15 levels higher is pretty good.

[zoe]

I agree with the rogue lady..been playing UL and I just can't go back. When ya get used to sitting on a chair and mobs talking to you and interacting with you and staff that actually thinks its staff and not some god descended from on high, you just can't go back.
Zoe

[Zir]

DR has a truly elegant combat/advancement/skill system, but it lacks something that gemstone has. I still can't put my finger on what that is though.

[Warriorbird]

UL never did it for me to the point where I'd pester people to come in and bandwagon advertise. :eye roll:

Gemstone is getting some DR features, but in turn DR is getting some GS ones, and I'm not entirely keen on it. (The new stealth exp system is very much likes GS experience in a sneaky way)

I prefer GS for having a lot more hunting areas, a better amulet, items able to do more things, and better effort at RP and events.

I prefer DR for thieves that are REALLY thieves, the experience system (so much better...GS folks just aren't able to cope)....and Gor'Togs.

I think I'd play DR more often than I do GS, cept for the merchanting, lack of ANY decent RP events, even larger percentage of drooling zombified people, and slow area development speed. I cut down on my DR playing about three years back....because I could hunt every area...and now? 3 years later it is finally looking appealing enough hunting area wise again.

[theotherjohn]

Originally posted by Kranar
<< I think the point was that it is rampant and requires much less skill to script a repetetive task than an actual hunting script that will not F up when an outsider screws with you or if you get in trouble etc. >>

And my point was that it's rampant in GS too and a lot easier to script in GS.

[Edited on 8-3-2003 by Kranar]

Not as rampant as scriptrealms. Scripting is so bad there that Simu created a new version The Fallen just to try to move some of the massive amount of scripters from the main version.

[imported_Kranar]

<< Scripting is so bad there that Simu created a new version The Fallen just to try to move some of the massive amount of scripters from the main version. >>

Gemstone the Fallen is coming too as announced by CEO Whatley.

The reason DR got it first is honestly, because DR gets everything first and then sometimes it gets converted over to Gemstone, and sometimes... it does not.

[Artha]

If there's one thing that skill based system encourages, it's scripting. I know a few of you use hunting scripts, but imagine a hunting script...but for crushing things, or sitting in one spot getting swung at by a ship rat to raise your armor.

[imported_Kranar]

<< I know a few of you use hunting scripts, but imagine a hunting script...but for crushing things, or sitting in one spot getting swung at by a ship rat to raise your armor. >>

Isn't that harder to script than making ONE hunting script that raises your armor, spell ranks, edged weapon use, first aid, mana sharing, your bank account and pretty much every other thing you can train in?

So in DR you have to script each skill individually if you want to script, wheras in Gemstone, you can script every single skill using only one hunting script. I think one script that increases every skill is much easier than 10 scripts to increase 10 skills.

[Edited on 8-19-2003 by Kranar]

[Artha]

But, a script to hunt is harder to write than, say, a script to sit and check your skills.

[imported_Kranar]

<< But, a script to hunt is harder to write than, say, a script to sit and check your skills. >>

Since when?

You should honestly check out how hard scripting is in DragonRealms. The scripters there are seriously hardcore, heck if you think Wizbot is anything remotely advanced you should see what some DR scripting tools exist. Things like actual C++ libraries exist so that you can make an actual PROGRAM to play the game for you, like you make your own Windows Application/EXE file, and use it to hunt or advance in skills.

Those utilities weren't made because scripting in DragonRealms is easy, they were made because scripting in it is quite difficult.

In Gemstone, you don't need anything more than the WizardFE to hunt. Heck all Gemstone hunting is, is prep->cast->search, standup if you got knocked down or pick up your weapon if it got disarmed.

It couldn't be easier. It's so repetitive and boring that it borders on zombification.

[Edited on 8-20-2003 by Kranar]

[Solkern]

All gs is..is a group of people, who think abotu what the consumers of the game want and do it..without actually asking the consumers what they want..its cute ina way

[Warriorbird]

Sometimes the consumers are pretty bloody dim. Better Warden's fumbles than UL's rampant and poorly handled code theft.

[imported_Kranar]

<< Better Warden's fumbles than UL's rampant and poorly handled code theft. >>

What does code-theft have to do with it?

I mean your logic is not only flawed, but it means your willing to accept lower standards even though higher standards exist for the same price.

[Artha]

All gs is..is a group of people, who think abotu what the consumers of the game want and do it..without actually asking the consumers what they want..its cute ina way

You're saying that they don't listen? That's laughable. GS4 has been molded by players. You know the whole mana seperation/having to train in harness power thing? Idea from a player. Caster staves? Been asked for for YEARS by the players. In fact, they're keeping testing up for an extra month and pushing back the GS4 opening date by a month so that players can test things more thoroughly. Why? Players asked for it on the boards.

[Neildo]

In fact, they're keeping testing up for an extra month and pushing back the GS4 opening date by a month so that players can test things more thoroughly. Why? Players asked for it on the boards.

No, heh. It's because they know they're not gonna be able to reach their due date. ;)

But yeah, Simutronics does listen to their customers. Better than any game I've ever played. Go play any other game and you'll hear the same bitching and whining of the company not listening to them just as you hear it here. It's quite funny. It mainly has to do with customers being a wee bit too involved with the game. Darn addicts. :P

- N

[Artha]

They still have all the old deadlines, they're just pushing GS4 back so that people can test things. I'm glad, frankly...I'd like to know whether my sorcerer's going stave or sword.

[Warriorbird]

Err, not really Kranar. I'd rather have something that gets fumbled around with a bit and finally done right than something's that stolen, left wrong, and then not really released.

[Solkern]

Thats definetly NOT true, I've been playing gs for a good 6-7 years, and ive never seen Simu do anything that the players truely want.....you say casters staves we are getting yeah we have been asking that for YEARS YEARS@! its takes them YEARS to listen to us??? yeah thats a good example of them listening to the consumers..I play NWN online..I have my DM, come on and he asks the people playing..what changes they think should be made..and he'll do it, if it sounds reasonable...GS=all about the money. not all about the consumer

[Artha]

I've been playing for 7 years, and I've got no complaints. How would your DM be able to react if he had to listen to thousands and thousands of suggestions, many of which are stupid and repeat themselves?

[Warriorbird]

NWN= not for profit by those running events....its just a base to run stories from. Very nice concept, hey. Not really comparable though. Compare it to other text based online games if you want something valid.

[Artha]

Only ones I know of are crappy MUDs with verbs like hugglepounce and the other Simu games.

[Warriorbird]

Achaea...Inferno...