Casting in Hauberk

[top shottah]

My rogue is a 3x dodge, 2.5x hide, combat build with knowledge up to 414. I use ewave often during a hunt. He is 85 trains.

The brig I have is nothing special (alternate btwn 4x fusion brig & some 6x brig, neither padded), and would be switching to some 4x spiked DCP hauberk.

I would drop his hide to 2x & raise armor to 130 ranks.

My question is this: Is it viable wearing hauberk to cast spells? (410 in this instance)


Thanks

[Drew]

As a ranger it works for me. I imagine I cast a hell of a lot more spells than you.

[DaCapn]

Yes it is viable. If you're training off MnE spell hindrance for hauberk, go to 140 ranks. You can get one more rank of armored evasion (I was just assuming that's your notion). With 140 ranks you can always switch into full plate if you won't be needing 410 somewhere.

That being said, I'm planning on switching from a hauberk caster (with picking skills) to have minimal spells (4 ranks), increase hide and dodge, and get much more redux. Getting 414 is a lot of training with very little payoff and a major redux penalty. I guess my character is a halfling so I get a huge racial TD bonus. For you, that may be 414's main selling point, rather than DS.

[m444w]

Don't do it if you want to cast. If you have spells you use them because you want them to consistently disable the room, not sometimes work and sometimes not.

It's not fun to waste that much mana on failed spells as a rogue pre-cap either, especially if you have that much armor training as you will have to skim on Harness Power.

I went 120 and 410, and haven't looked back since. It's amazing how much easier your hunting becomes when you can use 117 or ewave.

[m444w]

And that brig you own is 7x, not 6x!

[Terzl]

If you don't mind me asking m444w, what AsG are you wearing on a rogue casting 117?

I'm thinking about picking it up but prying MBP from my fingers is becoming almost impossible. I've become addicted to plate. Bleh.

[BigWorm]

As a capped rogue in hauberk, I can say that it is definitely doable. Of course the hindrance monster always gets you at the worst possible time, but about the only thing I cast in the field is 410 and I can usually deal with the consequences. It's more annoying for the wasted mana than any danger it puts me in.

[Gibreficul]

As a capped rogue in hauberk, I can say that it is definitely doable. Of course the hindrance monster always gets you at the worst possible time, but about the only thing I cast in the field is 410 and I can usually deal with the consequences. It's more annoying for the wasted mana than any danger it puts me in.

I'm also strolling around in hauberk, casting 410 at will, basically. My goal is casting in MBP. 16% hindrance... at 310 BONUS in armor, (210 ranks.) That's maxed +8 enhanced.

I'd tromp around in MBP until I max those armor ranks, but ewave is just easy street against bandits, and I'm too lazy to swap armor every time I get transferred from bandits to Nelemar tasks.

[BigWorm]

I'm also strolling around in hauberk, casting 410 at will, basically. My goal is casting in MBP. 16% hindrance... at 310 BONUS in armor, (210 ranks.) That's maxed +8 enhanced.

I'd tromp around in MBP until I max those armor ranks, but ewave is just easy street against bandits, and I'm too lazy to swap armor every time I get transferred from bandits to Nelemar tasks.

Yeah ewave makes bandits significantly easier. Its also nice in OTF for dealing with swarms.

[Gibreficul]

Yeah ewave makes bandits significantly easier. Its also nice in OTF for dealing with swarms.

I found my best method to deal with OTF swarms were to go for the critters that stun and have their buddies drag them off. Thins the numbers in the room quick. The CvA from MBP helps against web, which is my greatest fear in OTF.

[m444w]

If you don't mind me asking m444w, what AsG are you wearing on a rogue casting 117?

I'm thinking about picking it up but prying MBP from my fingers is becoming almost impossible. I've become addicted to plate. Bleh.

I use brig/robes depending on the hunting scenario... Though I am thinking of looking at a set of doubles for the no hindrance.

The OP being a friend of mine I was more telling him because of how much we hunt together that I know he'll hate the failing at spells.

One awesome thing about being a casting rogue is that you can hide immediately on cast.

These are my current skills:

Ondreian (at level 67), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 130 35
Combat Maneuvers...................| 171 71
Edged Weapons......................| 238 138
Ambush.............................| 173 73
Physical Fitness...................| 171 71
Dodging............................| 301 201
Harness Power......................| 108 26
Stalking and Hiding................| 216 116
Perception.........................| 168 68
Climbing...........................| 140 40
Swimming...........................| 111 27

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 10

Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 20

[Terzl]

I use brig/robes depending on the hunting scenario... Though I am thinking of looking at a set of doubles for the no hindrance.

Lighter armor (robes/brig/doubles) combined with no shield, very interesting.

I'd be interested to hear your hunting strategy or build philosophy behind this. I'm assuming you keep critters from connecting with you via dodge/e-wave and eliminate them with 117 from hiding.

Do you plan on taking this build to cap or will you shift gears later on?

[audioserf]

This shit right here makes me want to roll a magical rogue. Pure awesome. Must be a ton of fun to play. I feel like I would just skip armor training and wear robes all the time and be 3x hide though. Probably less ideal but it seems like it would be fun.


I use brig/robes depending on the hunting scenario... Though I am thinking of looking at a set of doubles for the no hindrance.

The OP being a friend of mine I was more telling him because of how much we hunt together that I know he'll hate the failing at spells.

One awesome thing about being a casting rogue is that you can hide immediately on cast.

These are my current skills:

Ondreian (at level 67), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 130 35
Combat Maneuvers...................| 171 71
Edged Weapons......................| 238 138
Ambush.............................| 173 73
Physical Fitness...................| 171 71
Dodging............................| 301 201
Harness Power......................| 108 26
Stalking and Hiding................| 216 116
Perception.........................| 168 68
Climbing...........................| 140 40
Swimming...........................| 111 27

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 10

Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 20

[m444w]

Lighter armor (robes/brig/doubles) combined with no shield, very interesting.

I'd be interested to hear your hunting strategy or build philosophy behind this. I'm assuming you keep critters from connecting with you via dodge/e-wave and eliminate them with 117 from hiding.

Do you plan on taking this build to cap or will you shift gears later on?

My hunting strategy is pretty simple, should have probably included my cmans and it would have been more clear.

I use vanish if I miss an outright kill and the creature is unstunnable or something comes in that can hunt me when I attack.

Smastery allows me to sneak around with 1 second RT so nothing ever gets a chance to get a lucky shot off at me.

I ewave if there are multiple creatures in a room and use vanish to kill everything before it is out of RT.

117 is used against grizzled/ancient creatures, turtled casters, or extremely heavily armor foes (I only use small blades for the most part, along with the occasional broadsword since I now own a few neat ones).

My TD is very good for my level, my next goal is 414 so I can use it in self-cast/spellburst areas.

Unless I get bored, I'll be taking it to cap. Originally I was TWC (which I will be the second skill I regain when I cap and even up my core skills), but for an ambusher the second strike is usually moot, so I put the TPs elsewhere.

[BigWorm]

My hunting strategy is pretty simple, should have probably included my cmans and it would have been more clear.

I use vanish if I miss an outright kill and the creature is unstunnable or something comes in that can hunt me when I attack.

Smastery allows me to sneak around with 1 second RT so nothing ever gets a chance to get a lucky shot off at me.

I ewave if there are multiple creatures in a room and use vanish to kill everything before it is out of RT.

117 is used against grizzled/ancient creatures, turtled casters, or extremely heavily armor foes (I only use small blades for the most part, along with the occasional broadsword since I now own a few neat ones).

My TD is very good for my level, my next goal is 414 so I can use it in self-cast/spellburst areas.

Unless I get bored, I'll be taking it to cap. Originally I was TWC (which I will be the second skill I regain when I cap and even up my core skills), but for an ambusher the second strike is usually moot, so I put the TPs elsewhere.

How do you figure your TD is good for your level when you wear robes? The +20STD from self cast 120 is nice (though I am ok with using imbeds myself), but it doesn't make up for the 25 CvA swing (15 in robes vs. -9 in hauberk). TD is the glaring weakness for higher-level squares and cloth armor only makes it worse. Dropping from full plate (-21 CvA) to robes is equivalent to giving up 36 points of TD.

Your primary defense against TD spells is clearly stealth. With vanish, you should only rarely be caught in the open and if something can't see you, it can't cast at you.

What do you see as the appeal of cloth armor? To me, it solves a problem I don't have. I do perfectly fine dodging things in heavier armors and even when I don't, AS/DS resolutions rarely result in a wound of any consequence. TD spells are what kill me, not physical attacks.

[m444w]

How do you figure your TD is good for your level when you wear robes? The +20STD from self cast 120 is nice (though I am ok with using imbeds myself), but it doesn't make up for the 25 CvA swing (15 in robes vs. -9 in hauberk). TD is the glaring weakness for higher-level squares and cloth armor only makes it worse. Dropping from full plate (-21 CvA) to robes is equivalent to giving up 36 points of TD.

Your primary defense against TD spells is clearly stealth. With vanish, you should only rarely be caught in the open and if something can't see you, it can't cast at you.

What do you see as the appeal of cloth armor? To me, it solves a problem I don't have. I do perfectly fine dodging things in heavier armors and even when I don't, AS/DS resolutions rarely result in a wound of any consequence. TD spells are what kill me, not physical attacks.

Last time I checked (101) 10 + (107) 15 + (120) + 20 = 45 TD from minor spirit spells

+2 for brig is a 23 TD difference, ... so I (in brig) have a 22 TD advantage over someone in plate. And i believe elemental TD spells (401 and 406) count for half towards spiritual, but I'm not positive.

[Gibreficul]

Last time I checked (101) 10 + (107) 15 + (120) + 20 = 45 TD from minor spirit spells

+2 for brig is a 23 TD difference, ... so I (in brig) have a 22 TD advantage over someone in plate. And i believe elemental TD spells (401 and 406) count for half towards spiritual, but I'm not positive.

And 101, 107, 401, 406, 414 are all able to be cast on you, so knowing them isn't giving you any "boost" over someone with a sorcerer buddy. Couple in the fact that 120 is imbedible, and you in brig are really behind the curve relative to a rogue in plate or chain with some MIU ranks. Just saying. Self cast 425 and 430 > self cast 120. You can't get those cast on you, and you can't have them imbedded.

[m444w]

If you don't know them they affect spellburst and they stopped the imbedding of level 20 spells a long time ago I believe. Also if we are figuring on nonself reliant/postcap builds the whole argument either way is out the window. anyone can be untouchable with outside spells.

[Gibreficul]

If you don't know them they affect spellburst and they stopped the imbedding of level 20 spells a long time ago I believe. Also if we are figuring on nonself reliant/postcap builds the whole argument either way is out the window. anyone can be untouchable with outside spells.

120 can still be imbeded, so you believe wrong. Also, it costs less TPs to train off the spellburst for any of the spells a rogue can learn, even 401 and/or 101, than to have the spells as selfcast.

EXAMPLE:

Burst-formula... abbreviated.
(all ranks)
wearable mana = ((AS + MIU + HP) + 0.5(controls + lores)) / (225 / level)

Rogue training costs:
AS = 7 MTPs
MIU = 8 MTPs
HP = 9 MTPs
EMC = 10 MTPs
SMC = 10 MTPs
MMC = 15 MTPs
Spell Ranks = 67 MTPs

Alright, so let's make some worst case scenario assumptions. Level 72 (min level for OTF) rogue going into the aquaducts. First... 225 / 72 = 3.125. I call that the burst factor, and it will minimize to 2.25 at cap.

To learn spell 401 would cost 67 MTPs. To train off the spellburst from 0.5 mana (known circle cost values are halved for spellburst purposes) would require:

0.5 * 3.125 = 1.5625 ranks, round up to 2... 3 ranks in controls. (I'll ignore lores because rogues don't train in lores.) 67 MTPs or 30 MTPs (worst case scenario) to wear 0.5 mana.

To learn spell 406 and 120, as was suggested, would cost 1742 MTPs. Assumin all spells (except 102) are worn, that's..
101, 103, 104, 105, 107, 112, 115, 120, 401, 406

That's 37 burst mana.

To offset 37 burst mana would require 37 * 3.125 = 116 ranks. Assume we split them between MIU/AS/HP. 39/39/38. That comes out to...
39 * 7 + 39 * 8 + 38 * 9 = 927 MTPs.

At cap, that same 37 burst mana takes 84 ranks to train off... split up similarly, 28 each AS/MIU/HP, that's 672 MTPs.

The worst case scenario is a TP difference of 815, and at cap, the difference is 1070.

I totally understand being self-sufficient, however part of that involves making smart decisions given what is available under each option. If you go for 425/430, the option is still open to wear spell 120 via imbed. In a spellburst enviroment, that's only 10 mana to train off. Spell 425/430 are impossible to have unless you train for them... Also, if you're training off spellburst, you're making yourself able to use scrolls and magic items. 101, 103, 107 are all pretty common on scrolls, as are 401, 406, 414.


Oh, and for the record, spellburst is one balancing mechanic in the game to make sure that you're "touchable."