Ideas on a fresh start

[HannibalSW]

Hey,

I came back after a decade and played around with the free trial for about a week. I considered playing a different class but I always enjoyed the rogue. I did some research to try to understand what changed and what I might want to play now. I was wondering if you guys could help steer me in the right direction.

I am thinking of doing archery, since it was never implemented in the game before. I really enjoy hiding and ambush so I want to go that route.

If I hide does that mean I should forgo heavy armors? Or should I try to train in them?
If I'm wearing leather in 80 levels will I pretty much be one shot and splat? How do you set your stats up? I know they increase with leveling, so I guess I shouldn't put any one stat too high? or does the bonus go beyond 100?
When everyone talks about Ambush x2 etc that means ranks per level? The way we level now is really different from when I played. There was always a max of 3, 2, or 1 to start, but some skills it looks like I can train up to 6 ranks right away.
I always liked climbing and swimming, is there a point to them anymore? I saw some people talking about the most ranks in a certain skill is XX and then any after that is moot, is that true?

Thanks for looking this over and for any help you can give me to complete my understanding!

[Fallen]

If I hide does that mean I should forgo heavy armors? Or should I try to train in them?
The newer mechanics help rogues that are in lighter armors, but they haven't applied additional penalties to heavier armors yet, so I would train for wearing heavy armor. You can always use light armor and still benefit from being overtrained for Armor use.


If I'm wearing leather in 80 levels will I pretty much be one shot and splat?

It will be dicey if you're caught in the open, but there is a new CMAN, Vanish, which will help you.


How do you set your stats up?

Dunno. Not a stat guy.


I know they increase with leveling, so I guess I shouldn't put any one stat too high? or does the bonus go beyond 100?

Your stats cannot grow past 100. Never place stats so that they would cap before you hit 30-40. There are potions you can earn/buy that will allow you to redo your stats, but they are very expensive. (30 mill+)


When everyone talks about Ambush x2 etc that means ranks per level?

Correct, that would mean you would train 2 times for every level you have.


The way we level now is really different from when I played. There was always a max of 3, 2, or 1 to start, but some skills it looks like I can train up to 6 ranks right away.

It is called Intra-level training, and I personally didn't do it. You can still choose to save your TPs and not use them until you hit the next level. Basically, you can now train one level AHEAD of the level you are at. It costs a ton, but you get the TPs back when you hit that new level. Unless you really want your skills as you earn the TPs to get them (at an inflated cost for a time), I would just go to the inn and train how you are used to. There is nothing wrong with doing so.


I always liked climbing and swimming, is there a point to them anymore? I saw some people talking about the most ranks in a certain skill is XX and then any after that is moot, is that true?
Different areas have different requirements. Because you're a square, you will have a lot of training in Physical Fitness, which also help with climb/swim checks. I would suggest 30 and 30 for a stopping point. That will get you into almost everywhere. 50 and 50 WILL get you everywhere if you're not hurt or encumbered. Just plan where you want to hunt and what is needed and train accordingly.

[HannibalSW]

Awesome! Thanks Fallen, you are a great help! I'll do some more research on the stats to keep them from capping pre 30-40s. I do prefer the way of leveling one level at a time. I am guessing to reach heavy armor I would go for 2x a level. I'll also look into combat maneuvers and vanish!

[prance1520]

You can do really well hiding and shooting a bow from the shadows. Most rogues post cap still train quite a bit of armor to max out the new armor fitting, armored stealth. You can adjust your armor to make it easier to hide, and the lighter armor your wear, the more benefit. There at least a couple capped rogues who wear robes, with armored stealth, max hiding, shadow mastery (a cman to help hiding). They rarely get caught out of the shadows.

There are other archers that will wear plate and shoot stuff in the eye from the open. Both are very doable, depends on your play style.

Not only do archers do pretty well, its the easiest path to be a good picker as well.

[BriarFox]

Check out my archery guide for (what I think is) a good starting point: http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?p=1061341 . Just post any specific questions and we'll all chime in.

[HannibalSW]

Is archery good for picking because of the combined use of dexterity? I have looked over your guide Briarfox, it is were I am drawing a lot of my information. I see some posts and guides that mention spells, is that really possible with a rogue or necessary? I never really played any of my characters long enough to get them out of the 20s. I don't know much about leveling past that.

[kookiegod]

Is archery good for picking because of the combined use of dexterity? I have looked over your guide Briarfox, it is were I am drawing a lot of my information. I see some posts and guides that mention spells, is that really possible with a rogue or necessary? I never really played any of my characters long enough to get them out of the 20s. I don't know much about leveling past that.

You can't do it ALL.

If you want spells (well, past 404), gonna sacrifice elsewhere.

I do a plate wearing/picking/no hiding rogue and it works great btw. So different strokes...

[Stretch]

The answer to everything is, it depends.

Regardless of whatever else you do, I highly advise trying to maximize leveling during the first 30 days. In other words, max out AGI / DEX / STR / LOG, go two handed weapon, buy a claidhmore, and pwn. When your 30 days are nearing completion, then reallocate your skills and stats to what you want to do long-term. You should be able to crank out at least 15 levels this way, which helps avoid the worst of the shitty stat stage should you optimize for growth.

If I hide does that mean I should forgo heavy armors? Or should I try to train in them?


It would be silly not to go for heavy armor. The penalty to Dodge and Maneuvers is nowhere near severe enough to trade off the huge benefit to CvA and damage reduction.

If I'm wearing leather in 80 levels will I pretty much be one shot and splat?

Yes.

How do you set your stats up? I know they increase with leveling, so I guess I shouldn't put any one stat too high? or does the bonus go beyond 100?


Are you playing to cap, or are you playing casually? If the former, use the GSIV Stat Optimizer to figure out how to place for growth. If the latter, place your stats so that the key ones max out at level 40 or 50. You can always buy a fixstat (40 mill or so) if you change your mind.


When everyone talks about Ambush x2 etc that means ranks per level? The way we level now is really different from when I played. There was always a max of 3, 2, or 1 to start, but some skills it looks like I can train up to 6 ranks right away.

I'm assuming someone else has explained this, but I'm too lazy to check.


I always liked climbing and swimming, is there a point to them anymore?


There's almost no point in them in early levels. They're also dirt cheap to train in, so I'd say skip it until you find a place where you need them.


I saw some people talking about the most ranks in a certain skill is XX and then any after that is moot, is that true?


You probably won't need a ton of mana, so you Harness Power falls in this category. Maybe Arcane Symbols as well (formerly Scroll Use).

Armor Use, technically you only need 140 ranks for full plate.

Everything else...yeah, not true.

[HannibalSW]

Regardless of whatever else you do, I highly advise trying to maximize leveling during the first 30 days. In other words, max out AGI / DEX / STR / LOG, go two handed weapon, buy a claidhmore, and pwn. When your 30 days are nearing completion, then reallocate your skills and stats to what you want to do long-term. You should be able to crank out at least 15 levels this way, which helps avoid the worst of the shitty stat stage should you optimize for growth.


How can you relocate stats after the trial? Let it expire and then activate the account or something like that?

[Stry]

How can you relocate stats after the trial? Let it expire and then activate the account or something like that?

You can change your stats 5 times within the first 30 days. Whichever comes first, the 5th change or the 30th day your stats lock in place.

So you COULD change to 100 STR, CON, DEX,AGI, LOG and level as fast as you can for easy hunting.

Then prior to the 30 days change them back to a more growth based strategy for longer term growth.

But at the end of 30 days, you can't change your stats anymore(other than fixstat potion 30mil+), and you'll have to start paying for the account or cancel it.

Also, after 30 days, the only way is to change your training points is to migrate skills slowly, or use your once per year fixskills. (or a fixskills that cost 8 mil)



Even if you reactivate the account later, the character is still over 30 days old and your window for stat/skill changes is over.


I hope that is clear enough.

[DaCapn]

When everyone talks about Ambush x2 etc that means ranks per level? The way we level now is really different from when I played. There was always a max of 3, 2, or 1 to start, but some skills it looks like I can train up to 6 ranks right away.

The logic behind maximum ranks in skills is a metaphor for GS entirely. You can figure out how it works but the logic behind it will forever elude you.

The first idea any human (being of sound mind and body) would come up with is that the number of ranks you can train in is an integer multiple of your current level (i.e. at level 35 single-training would be 35 ranks, double-training would be 70, etc).

The GS system allows you to get two ranks over your current level for each cost tier (i.e. edged weapon training for a level 35 rogue costs 2/1 for ranks 1-37 and 4/2 for ranks 38-74). So at level 0, after you get two ranks in a skill, you have to pay double-training costs.

That stops after level 99. Level 100 is apparently not a level, rather just the end of level 99. Single-training is 101 ranks and so on.

My notion of single-training conflicts with Fallen (by a rank). To me, the cost is the defining characteristic. The intention of dev GMs (with respect to single/double training limit benefits) may be all over the map. Check ranged AS, for example:
http://forum.gsplayers.com/showpost.php?p=893326&postcount=21

[HannibalSW]

Crystal clear, I didn't realize I could shift stats while on the trial. I guess its time to start hunting around Ta'Vaalor! :medieval:

[Gibreficul]

The logic behind maximum ranks in skills is a metaphor for GS entirely. You can figure out how it works but the logic behind it will forever elude you.

The first idea any human (being of sound mind and body) would come up with is that the number of ranks you can train in is an integer multiple of your current level (i.e. at level 35 single-training would be 35 ranks, double-training would be 70, etc).

The GS system allows you to get two ranks over your current level for each cost tier (i.e. edged weapon training for a level 35 rogue costs 2/1 for ranks 1-37 and 4/2 for ranks 38-74). So at level 0, after you get two ranks in a skill, you have to pay double-training costs.

That stops after level 99. Level 100 is apparently not a level, rather just the end of level 99. Single-training is 101 ranks and so on.

My notion of single-training conflicts with Fallen (by a rank). To me, the cost is the defining characteristic. The intention of dev GMs (with respect to single/double training limit benefits) may be all over the map. Check ranged AS, for example:
http://forum.gsplayers.com/showpost.php?p=893326&postcount=21

That's not true at all... Gemstone is a 101 level game... level 0 counts. You are allowed to train for your level, and the NEXT level. That's why at level 99-100, your skill maxes don't go up. At level 99, you were allowed to train for your level 100 training, but there is no level 101 to train for at level 100. Backing up a bit, since level 0 counts, that's how we get our 101x ranks at level 100.

[Asha]

Oh and there's nothing wrong with hiding in plate.

[Gibreficul]

Oh and there's nothing wrong with hiding in plate.

The only penalty to hiding in plate is if you know armored stealth, there's 0 modification to hiding rolls from that skill. Basically, the penalty is a lack of a bonus, and only if you go armored stealth instead of armored evasion.

[DaCapn]

That's not true at all... Gemstone is a 101 level game... level 0 counts. You are allowed to train for your level, and the NEXT level. That's why at level 99-100, your skill maxes don't go up. At level 99, you were allowed to train for your level 100 training, but there is no level 101 to train for at level 100. Backing up a bit, since level 0 counts, that's how we get our 101x ranks at level 100.

I know.... like the "size" of your levels rather than the "index" of your level.

I did say "your level" which is the number that shows up after "Level:" in EXP (the index of your level). I did not say "number of levels you have completed" (the size of your levels).

However you choose to look at it, neither of us incorrectly described training limits.