Yemeni Jew explains why Allah is the God of Muslims/Christians/Jews

[IorakeWarhammer]

..including 20 million Arab Christians

Eye opening if you can overlook his stuttering. Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqVhPBKUt3c

[nub]

all religions are made up

[Deathravin]

You're like the muslim version of Walter yelling about shabbas.

Walter Sobchak (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000422/): I'm saying, I see what you're getting at, Dude, he kept the money. My point is, here we are, it's shabbas, the sabbath, which I'm allowed to break only if it's a matter of life or death...
The Dude (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000313/): Will you come off it, Walter? You're not even fucking Jewish, man.
Walter Sobchak (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000422/): What the fuck are you talkin' about?
The Dude (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000313/): Man, you're fucking Polish Catholic...
Walter Sobchak (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000422/): What the fuck are you talking about? I converted when I married Cynthia! Come on, Dude!
The Dude (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000313/): Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah...
Walter Sobchak (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000422/): And you know this!
The Dude (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000313/): Yeah, and five fucking years ago you were divorced.
Walter Sobchak (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000422/): So what are you saying? When you get divorced you turn in your library card? You get a new license? You stop being Jewish?
The Dude (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000313/): It's all a part of your sick Cynthia thing, man. Taking care of her fucking dog. Going to her fucking synagogue. You're living in the fucking past.
Walter Sobchak (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000422/): Three thousand years of beautiful tradition, from Moses to Sandy Koufax... You're goddamn right I'm living in the fucking past!

Unfortunately, a little knowledge of history and perspective tends to damage faith.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlnnWbkMlbg
I suggest reading the book he's paraphrasing, it's a very good read.
http://www.amazon.com/History-God-000-Year-Judaism-Christianity/dp/0345384563

[Warriorbird]

You're like the muslim version of Walter yelling about shabbas.

Walter Sobchak (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000422/): I'm saying, I see what you're getting at, Dude, he kept the money. My point is, here we are, it's shabbas, the sabbath, which I'm allowed to break only if it's a matter of life or death...
The Dude (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000313/): Will you come off it, Walter? You're not even fucking Jewish, man.
Walter Sobchak (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000422/): What the fuck are you talkin' about?
The Dude (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000313/): Man, you're fucking Polish Catholic...
Walter Sobchak (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000422/): What the fuck are you talking about? I converted when I married Cynthia! Come on, Dude!
The Dude (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000313/): Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah...
Walter Sobchak (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000422/): And you know this!
The Dude (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000313/): Yeah, and five fucking years ago you were divorced.
Walter Sobchak (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000422/): So what are you saying? When you get divorced you turn in your library card? You get a new license? You stop being Jewish?
The Dude (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000313/): It's all a part of your sick Cynthia thing, man. Taking care of her fucking dog. Going to her fucking synagogue. You're living in the fucking past.
Walter Sobchak (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000422/): Three thousand years of beautiful tradition, from Moses to Sandy Koufax... You're goddamn right I'm living in the fucking past!

Unfortunately, a little knowledge of history and perspective tends to damage faith.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlnnWbkMlbg
I suggest reading the book he's paraphrasing, it's a very good read.

Incredibly right on. I'm just not sure he's that cool.

[diethx]

all religions are made up

Yes.

[BriarFox]

Did it just come to you like a revelation from Yahweh that these three religions are, gasp, very similar? That might be because they're all based off versions of the same set of documents!

[Deathravin]

http://i.imgur.com/KgiDA.jpg
100% fiction, but still creepy as hell.

[IorakeWarhammer]

the responses.. all trolling.. some textbook out-of-place atheist statements.. and spam

gj team!

[Deathravin]

the responses.. all trolling.. some textbook out-of-place atheist statements.. and spam

gj team!

And your OP was... not trolling? Every time you bring up, ON YOUR OWN, your religion without any provocation is... not trolling? Count the number of times any other person on this board be they theist or atheist brings up religion.

You mentioned that you just now realized that Yahweh was the God of the Jews, Christians and Muslim faiths. I gave you a video explaining it further, and likened you to somebody who converted to a Jew to get married and continued the faith militantly after they got divorced, which was fairly appropo to your situation (as I understand it - not the divorce part, YET, but lets face it).

Trolling? Probably... but you started this thread, for what reason again?


I had been watching debates on Creationists vs Scientists for several months. All of them were fairly recent, within a few years. I got caught up in the style of debate and the facts in it. It felt sort of interesting to me and a nice 'current' debate. The dover trials, the evolutionary debate and the struggle to get creationism in school to "teach both sides".

Then the National Center for Science Education (http://www.youtube.com/user/NatCen4ScienceEd) put on their youtube channel a debate between biologist Ken Miller and creationist Henry Morris. So I popped it on during my bus ride. I was just listening (not watching) and heard all the usual arguments, with all the usual rebuttals. When I got home I watched it again and realized the debate was in 1981. So for at least 30 years the same debate has been raging with the same rebuttals. If the creationist camp hasn't accepted those rebuttals yet, they never will.


You're not the first person to be shocked that Yahweh was the same God in the Jewish, Christian and Muslim faith. And you won't be the last to think he's stumbled upon some new idea. But while your faith remains static, science has moved passed it. The scientific method that the religious rail against for bringing blasphemous ideas such as evolution and a sun-centered solar system is the same method that allows you to type on a magic box that puts your ideas onto this forum.

I say again. Do not go down the road of education and enlightenment. It will lead only one place: casting away of superstition and the setting aside of childish ideals. If you want to remain a person of faith, close your eyes, and cover your ears.

[IorakeWarhammer]

You mentioned that you just now realized that Yahweh was the God of the Jews, Christians and Muslim faiths. I gave you a video explaining it further, and likened you to somebody who converted to a Jew to get married and continued the faith militantly after they got divorced, which was fairly appropo to your situation (as I understand it - not the divorce part, YET, but lets face it).

You're not the first person to be shocked that Yahweh was the same God in the Jewish, Christian and Muslim faith. And you won't be the last to think he's stumbled upon some new idea. But while your faith remains static, science has moved passed it. The scientific method that the religious rail against for bringing blasphemous ideas such as evolution and a sun-centered solar system is the same method that allows you to type on a magic box that puts your ideas onto this forum.



lets not confuse Christian creationists with Muslim. vastly different approaches, discourses, etc.

secondly, I was a Muslim before I met my wife. I entered Islam because it touched my heart and improved my sense of well being.

lastly, way to derail another thread to make it about me!!!!! wee.

the effort of the post was to possibly enlighten people, from the perspective of someone Jewish, showing us that we have a lot more in common than we think. but if you guys just wanna troll and make baseless assumptions about me, that's great too!

[waywardgs]

If you want to remain a person of faith, close your eyes, and cover your ears.

And for god's sake, don't touch your balls!

[IorakeWarhammer]

And for god's sake, don't touch your balls!

fuck.. thats forbidden?! I'm going to hell.

[IorakeWarhammer]

i'm feeling excessively philosophical due to this post.. i wonder..

if a troll trolls alone in a forest, and nobody responds to his trolling, is he still trolling?!

[waywardgs]

i'm feeling excessively philosophical due to this post.. i wonder..

if a troll trolls alone in a forest, and nobody responds to his trolling, is he still trolling?!

Nope. He's just touching his balls too much.

[Warriorbird]

Allah is their god. It also means old Yuhvuh and "God" are your god.

He's a crazy bloodthirsty bastard however you think of him (or her).

[IorakeWarhammer]

its gender neutral. God doesn't have a gender / kids / grandkids, a beachhouse, etc.

[Deathravin]

Allah is their god. It also means old Yuhvuh and "God" are your god.

He's a crazy bloodthirsty bastard however you think of him (or her).

Yahweh was the God of war and conflict. Basically the ancestor of Aeries or Mars. 'God' or 'Allah' is an amalgam of Yahweh and El Elyon (the king of the gods). You can see El's name in "SamuEL", "BethEL", "IshmaEL", etc.


lets not confuse Christian creationists with Muslim. vastly different approaches, discourses, etc.

It all boils down to the same thing man. Ignoring science and facts based on hearsay. Like I said, just keep burying your senses and you can keep your faith. Don't go down the road of knowledge. It's a one-way street.

[Deathravin]

Nope. He's just touching his balls too much.

http://i.imgur.com/tHS1q.jpg

[IorakeWarhammer]

in Islam, sex is an act of worship. with your partner. you get bonus points. in Christianity? well.... NOT SO MUCH!!!!!!

[Warriorbird]

in Islam, sex is an act of worship. with your partner. you get bonus points. in Christianity? well.... NOT SO MUCH!!!!!!

Judaism too.

[IorakeWarhammer]

spiritual rewards for sex?! COME ON PEOPLE THIS RELIGION STUFF AINT SO BAD!!!

[Deathravin]

THIS RELIGION STUFF AINT SO BAD!!!

This may have been the single most blatantly ignorant and misguided statement I've ever read on these forums. And I've read some pretty crazy bullshit here.

[Showal]

the effort of the post was to possibly enlighten people, from the perspective of someone Jewish, showing us that we have a lot more in common than we think. but if you guys just wanna troll and make baseless assumptions about me, that's great too!


Most non-converts act like non-Muslims. They don't pray, they don't fast, they couldn't give a shit about the religion. Then you have the religious people, who are broken into two groups. People that "get it," meaning they are humble, soft hearted, they don't show off their deeds, and they come and go, pious worshippers of Allah that no one notices. Then you have the people who "don't get it," meaning they think the religion is all about beards and robes and "correcting" people, meaning embarassing them into being more religious by calling them out constantly, which mostly leads to the people being "corrected" to high-tail it out of any religious setting. (we call this group radicals even amongst ourselves - not for their beliefs but for their poor strategy with regards to implementing social change)

Here we go again ...

[Ryvicke]

Deathravin won this thread before it even started.

IW--you're not such a bad guy man, really. But nothing you're saying is new to any of us. We're all really stoked you found something that gave your life meaning, but we're all under the impression that we're better than you--and we think that what you picked to give your life meaning is kind of dumb.

I really fucking love petting my cat. I think petting her every night improves my life so so much. I even googled a ton of shit about how petting your cat increases happiness and decreases stress and stuff. I try to only post about cats and kittens a few times a month because I think it would be weird if I made a ton of threads about it. Her name is Noona.

You can be a totally cool member of these forums if you just stfu about Islam and discuss shit like a normal person.

[IorakeWarhammer]

i am so horrible for posting a video and trying to stimulate discussion omg!

[Warriorbird]

Your drag queen avatar is making you a drama queen. Your primary point had some deep deep logical flaws. Your faith entirely clouds your reason, however, so there's not too much point in attempted discourse.

[Ryvicke]

i am so horrible for posting a video and trying to stimulate discussion omg!

Nobody here didn't recognize that Judaism, Islam and Christianity are all Abrahamic religions. There is no discussion.

[IorakeWarhammer]

God forbid (or should I saw Charles Darwin Forbid?) that we actually discuss the point of the post, which is how all 3 religions are interconnected down to the semantics of the language, and how ridiculous much of the American anti-Islam discourse has become. I think that's the intention of the video's creator.

nah, too much effort. let's just do another IW roast! and promote our own opinions without trying to discuss the point of the thread! we are not trolling, its IW who is the bad guy! weee!!! <TWILIGHT ZONE MUSIC>

[Warriorbird]

It's obvious to the rest of us. Then again, most of us aren't Truthers, be we liberal or conservative. We take the anti-Muslim sentiment with a grain of salt but we understand the roots of it.

[IorakeWarhammer]

Nobody here didn't recognize that Judaism, Islam and Christianity are all Abrahamic religions. There is no discussion.

someone didn't watch the video!

but yeah, if you guys are so incredibly intelligent and enlightened, why not just ignore the post?

is a successful troll that successful?

[Ryvicke]

someone didn't watch the video!

but yeah, if you guys are so incredibly intelligent and enlightened, why not just ignore the post?

is a successful troll that successful?

I will watch your video if you summarize the events of this 31 minute video entitled "Pettin the Yuki Puss"

http://vimeo.com/2649694

Google lied about the length of this video!!!11

Please consult this video instead:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itft7WghNWQ

Which instructs on "beginner petting techniques" including "top of head" and "intermediate petting techniques" like "across the back"

[Warriorbird]

someone didn't watch the video!

but yeah, if you guys are so incredibly intelligent and enlightened, why not just ignore the post?

is a successful troll that successful?

You're trying to be edgy. Nobody who's responding to you is in any way shocked by the fact that they're the from the same root or that you'd somehow use it to evangelize Islam.

We don't need to watch the video.

If the guy's stuttering badly it seems even more like you're a Muslim ClydeR, mocking the religion.

[Ryvicke]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/nobody_boy/kitty.gif

[Ryvicke]

Just to be clear: that cat is my Allah.

[IorakeWarhammer]

ahhhhhhhh i get it!!!! so the consensus position of the PC is:

"no way IW is trying to promote understanding and discourse! he's just trolling and trying to make us all into Muslims! Yes! he's back to his old ways! and he posted he was a changed man from his 3 month ban, but he's just back to the same crap again! and there's nothing I could POSSIBLY be doing or saying that is wrong! everything I am saying is completely thoughtful and i'm totally trying to contribute, but IW isn't giving me anything to work with! FML!!!!"

[Warriorbird]

How about not insult our intelligence if you're trying to contribute.

[IorakeWarhammer]

you're insulting mine (what little I have left) so.. shouldn't I at least return the favor?!

i mean, if you guys aren't gonna take anything I post seriously, why should I bait my tongue? this is how it always ends up. i try to post something i find cool, you guys clown me, then i just screw around and the thread dies. yippee?

[diethx]

nah, too much effort. let's just do another IW roast! and promote our own opinions without trying to discuss the point of the thread! we are not trolling, its IW who is the bad guy! weee!!! <TWILIGHT ZONE MUSIC>

Are you serious? I mean, really? You spent over a year trolling these boards non-stop, making thread after stupid thread just to annoy everyone who posts here, with the sole purpose of pissing people off and making them hate you because you thought it was hilarious. You get banned for 3 months and think that you can come back and everyone will have forgotten why they think you're a supreme douchebag?

If you want to stimulate thought and conversation with people who don't think you're a fucking tool, find another forum.

[IorakeWarhammer]

^ well said

you know.. it's a shame you guys are mostly religion free..

it teaches forgiveness!

[BriarFox]

I'd be happy to engage in thoughtful debate over metaphysical questions. I have yet to see any.

[waywardgs]

^ well said

you know.. it's a shame you guys are mostly religion free..

it teaches forgiveness!


all religions are made up

This thread ended after the first reply.

[Warriorbird]

You posted a video suggesting that "Allah" is the god of all the, 'people of the book' as it were and then made a point suggesting that he was the god of all Arab Christians without acknowledging that the Hebrew fellow and the Christian fellow are theoretically the gods of all the 'people of the book' as well.

What's to discuss?

[Showal]

I will watch your video if you summarize the events of this 31 minute video entitled "Pettin the Yuki Puss"

http://vimeo.com/2649694

Google lied about the length of this video!!!11

Please consult this video instead:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itft7WghNWQ

Which instructs on "beginner petting techniques" including "top of head" and "intermediate petting techniques" like "across the back"

They don't include some of the more progressive cat petting techniques I utilize, such as Sneaky Pet from Beneath the Covers or my favorite Pick Up by the Scruff of the Neck and Furiously Scratch the Stomach. For the new cat owner, however, I think these videos cover the basics.

Good post.

[IorakeWarhammer]

well, the video provokes some questions

1. why do Eurocentric Christians and Arab Christians differ so greatly with regards to the language used with regards to religion? if you notice, Islamic countries stay relatively consistant. but why are Western Christians so put off by the name Allah when Middle Eastern Christians use it?

2. Why do some evangelicals resort to such slimy tactics in how they bash Islam? It seems like a fairly mainstream practice within evangelical circles.

3. The guy in the video relates the story of how a Jewish scholar dictates that Jews may pray in Mosques but not Churches (assuming no synagogue is available). Whats up with that?

[Showal]

well, the video provokes some questions

1. why do Eurocentric Christians and Arab Christians differ so greatly with regards to the language used with regards to religion? if you notice, Islamic countries stay relatively consistant. but why are Western Christians so put off by the name Allah when Middle Eastern Christians use it?

2. Why do some evangelicals resort to such slimy tactics in how they bash Islam? It seems like a fairly mainstream practice within evangelical circles.

3. The guy in the video relates the story of how a Jewish scholar dictates that Jews may pray in Mosques but not Churches (assuming no synagogue is available). Whats up with that?

I think you can discuss and maybe even answer these in an intelligent discourse with your wife over dinner tonight.

[IorakeWarhammer]

<3 showal

[BriarFox]

well, the video provokes some questions

1. why do Eurocentric Christians and Arab Christians differ so greatly with regards to the language used with regards to religion? if you notice, Islamic countries stay relatively consistant. but why are Western Christians so put off by the name Allah when Middle Eastern Christians use it?

2. Why do some evangelicals resort to such slimy tactics in how they bash Islam? It seems like a fairly mainstream practice within evangelical circles.

3. The guy in the video relates the story of how a Jewish scholar dictates that Jews may pray in Mosques but not Churches (assuming no synagogue is available). Whats up with that?

1. Because it's an Arabic (?) word.

2. Why do jihadists kill people?

3. Apparently he sees a closer theological relationship between Islam and Judaism than Christianity and Judaism.

[Warriorbird]

well, the video provokes some questions

1. why do Eurocentric Christians and Arab Christians differ so greatly with regards to the language used with regards to religion? if you notice, Islamic countries stay relatively consistant. but why are Western Christians so put off by the name Allah when Middle Eastern Christians use it?

It's linguistically based. It also ties into Catholic Church divisions and divisions amongst the Islamic faithful.


2. Why do some evangelicals resort to such slimy tactics in how they bash Islam? It seems like a fairly mainstream practice within evangelical circles.

There's a remarkable correlation with Islamic fundamentalism. The sad bit (and I detest them) is that evangelicals are generally far less violent.


3. The guy in the video relates the story of how a Jewish scholar dictates that Jews may pray in Mosques but not Churches (assuming no synagogue is available). Whats up with that?

Muslims don't dictate Jesus > violent old people of the book God. All though most Christians stick more to violent asshole God than they're supposed to, versus relatively chill Mr. Jesus.

[Deathravin]

I guess to be fair, I wouldn't want to renounce my faith if I were IW either...


Let there be no compulsion in the religion: Clearly the Right Path (i.e. Islam) is distinct from the crooked path.
Qur'an, [Qur'an 2:256]

A section of the 'People of the Book' (Jews and Christians) says: "Believe in the morning what is revealed to the believers (Muslims), but reject it at the end of the day; perchance they may (themselves) turn back (from Islam).
Qur'an, [Qur'an 3:72]

But those who reject faith after they accepted it, and then go on adding to their defiance of faith, never will their repentance be accepted; for they are those who have (of set purpose) gone astray.
Qur'an, [Qur'an 3:90]

Those who blasphemed and back away from the ways of Allah and die as blasphemers, Allah shall not forgive them.
Qur'an, [Qur'an 4:48]

Those who believe, then reject faith, then believe (again) and (again) reject faith, and go on increasing in unbelief, – Allah will not forgive them nor guide them on the way.
Qur'an, [Qur'an 4:137]

O ye who believe! If any from among you turn back from his faith, soon will Allah produce a people whom He (Allah) will love as they will love Him lowly with the believers, Mighty against the rejecters, fighting in the way of Allah, and never afraid of the reproachers of such as find fault. That is the Grace of Allah which He will bestow on whom He (Allah) pleases. And Allah encompasses all, and He knows all things.
Qur'an, [Qur'an 5:54]

The Hadith (a collection of sayings attributed to Muhammad and his companions) includes statements taken as supporting the death penalty for apostasy, such as:
The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I (Muhammad) am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims. Sahih al-Bukhari, 9:83:17

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam

Once that little issue gets patched up, give me a call and we can start a civil discussion on Islam.

I've seen a map of the percentage of each islamic nation that believes Death should be the penalty of apostasy. I'm trying to find it. My Googling skills are not that great sometimes.

[Warriorbird]

...and IW chickens out when he sees a discussion.

[IorakeWarhammer]

"All over the place, from the popular culture to the propaganda system, there is constant pressure to make people feel that they are helpless, that the only role they can have is to ratify decisions and to consume."
Noam Chomsky

[Latrinsorm]

But while your faith remains static, science has moved passed it. The scientific method that the religious rail against for bringing blasphemous ideas such as evolution and a sun-centered solar system is the same method that allows you to type on a magic box that puts your ideas onto this forum.It depends on the faith and science you're talking about, really. Islam even has a phrase for dynamic re-interpretations of faith, the gates of ijtihad. Hinduism can't go 13 seconds without absorbing another fundamentally new faith. Roman Catholics had the Second Vatican Council. There have been periods where scientists have been lethally obstinate, brutally repressive, insanely provincial.

The common thread here is humans. If you read the arguments Richard Owen brings against Darwin's evolution (for instance), you will be bored to tears because it's all hyper-specific biologist bullshit. He never talks about God or Christianity. People argued against heliocentric models because (as near as they could figure) the geocentric model worked, and had worked for 1000 years: The Almagest describes the orbits of all the planets of antiquity. It is 100% wrong, of course, but it is 100% consistent with the observations people could make - why wouldn't anyone believe it? Whether Ptolemy was a religious man, I can't say, but history is littered with examples of religious men who made staggering contributions to science.

This phony narrative of religious vs. scientific is a very recent development, and one that its originators are only too happy to have you propagate for them.

[IorakeWarhammer]

I guess to be fair, I wouldn't want to renounce my faith if I were IW either...



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam

Once that little issue gets patched up, give me a call and we can start a civil discussion on Islam.

I've seen a map of the percentage of each islamic nation that believes Death should be the penalty of apostasy. I'm trying to find it. My Googling skills are not that great sometimes.

If it's from the Qur'an and Sunnah I accept it.

You call it blind following. I call it Yaqeen. (certainty)

[Warriorbird]

"All over the place, from the popular culture to the propaganda system, there is constant pressure to make people feel that they are helpless, that the only role they can have is to ratify decisions and to consume."
Noam Chomsky

So in response to some valid points from some liberals you bring in Chomsky being a Marxist? Something isn't quite connecting, dude.

[IorakeWarhammer]

i wanted to share and i plan to follow up on some of the posts when i get time. im at home now and talking to you guys is low on the priority list sorry.
so far from my skimming it seems Latrinstorm pretty much hit the nail on the head.

[waywardgs]

history is littered with examples of religious men who made staggering contributions to science.


And the present?

[Latrinsorm]

Feynman was atheist, Einstein was pretty much atheist, so I would say 0 for 2 in the 20th century in the only science that matters. The only one I can think of is Heisenberg, but he's no Feynman.

[Warriorbird]

Feynman was atheist, Einstein was pretty much atheist, so I would say 0 for 2 in the 20th century in the only science that matters. The only one I can think of is Heisenberg, but he's no Feynman.

The discipline bias is intense.

[Delias]

Let's make a deal. How about I kick the shit out of you, and I stop the exact moment allah tells me to? That's how you can prove to me that he exists.

ETA: Although, on second thought, I doubt he would tell me to stop anyway.

[Warriorbird]

Let's make a deal. How about I kick the shit out of you, and I stop the exact moment allah tells me to? That's how you can prove to me that he exists.

ETA: Although, on second thought, I doubt he would tell me to stop anyway.

Given as he's a part of the violent/unstable "People of the Book" triumvirate he'd probably be all, "FINISH HIM!!!"

[IorakeWarhammer]

"If you are merciful with the creation, Allah will be merciful with you" ~ the Prophet Muhammad

[waywardgs]

"If you are merciful with the creation, Allah will be merciful with you" ~ the Prophet Muhammad, in between sweatily humping a prepubescent girl.

fxt

[IorakeWarhammer]

oh, we had a nice sermon about that issue the other day.. two best points made:

1. The enemies of Muhammad (salalaahu alayhi wa sallam - may the peace and blessings of God be upon him) called him all sorts of names. Magician, Sorcerer, Poet, Liar, etc. They never called him a pedophile. Why? Marrying young women at that time was a common cultural practice in Arabia. It wasn't something considered unusual at all. In fact, it was easier on families to marry their daughters young, as it gave responsibility to the husband and made it easier on the girl's family.

2. the marriage was suggested to Muhammad by Khawlah bint Hakim, a brave early Muslim convert. this woman fought in many battles, including one where she wore a disguise to rescue her brother from Roman captors.

Other points:

1. aisha (radi allahu aynhaa - may God be pleased with her) was actually engaged before being married to Muhammad. she disliked the man and didn't want to marry him. it was cut off.

2. she was unlike the other companions, as she would constantly question Muhammad about his teachings and push him to explain things she didn't understand.

3. she was an extremely intelligent person from a very young age

4. Muhammad married a 40 year old woman (khadijah) at age 25. He was with her for the majority of his married life. They ran a successful trading business together.

5. aisha was the daughter of abu bakr (may God be pleased with him,) who was the first person outside of Muhammad's family to become a Muslim. he was Muhammad's right hand man. they were best friends.

6. she was his only wife that was a virgin before they consummated the marriage

7. even upon being married, she stayed with her parents for a few years before deciding (on her part) to go live with Muhammad and consummate the marriage

so please, before you say blasphemous things about the Prophet of 1/3 of the world, kindly do some research.

[Delias]

oh, we had a nice sermon about that issue the other day.. two best points made:

1. The enemies of Muhammad (salalaahu alayhi wa sallam - may the peace and blessings of God be upon him) called him all sorts of names. Magician, Sorcerer, Poet, Liar, etc. They never called him a pedophile. Why? Marrying young women at that time was a common cultural practice in Arabia. It wasn't something considered unusual at all. In fact, it was easier on families to marry their daughters young, as it gave responsibility to the husband and made it easier on the girl's family.

2. the marriage was suggested to Muhammad by Khawlah bint Hakim, a brave early Muslim convert. this woman fought in many battles, including one where she wore a disguise to rescue her brother from Roman captors.

Other points:

1. aisha (radi allahu aynhaa - may God be pleased with her) was actually engaged before being married to Muhammad. she disliked the man and didn't want to marry him. it was cut off.

2. she was unlike the other companions, as she would constantly question Muhammad about his teachings and push him to explain things she didn't understand.

3. she was an extremely intelligent person from a very young age

4. Muhammad married a 40 year old woman (khadijah) at age 25. He was with her for the majority of his married life. They ran a successful trading business together.

5. aisha was the daughter of abu bakr (may God be pleased with him,) who was the first person outside of Muhammad's family to become a Muslim. he was Muhammad's right hand man. they were best friends.

6. she was his only wife that was a virgin before they consummated the marriage

7. even upon being married, she stayed with her parents for a few years before deciding (on her part) to go live with Muhammad and consummate the marriage

so please, before you say blasphemous things about the Prophet of 1/3 of the world, kindly do some research.

If I did research on prepubescent girls, I'd get arrested.

[BriarFox]

Entertainingly, you capitalize Muhammad's name, but refrain from capitalizing the women's names. WHAT ARE YOU IMPLYING, YOU MISOGYNIST?

[IorakeWarhammer]

thats just me being a dumbass. arabic doesnt even have capital letters

[Stanley Burrell]

I dunno. I think, as a Jew, I'm not supposed to say "Yahweh." But then, "Allah" and "Jehovah" are both (like Yahweh) guesses at what the hell non-voweled ancient-ancient-ancient Hebrew was trying to say. I mean, that shit pisses me off. Not really, but, think about if you were really religious or something -- And your monotheistic God's name was "Hank" but you kept calling him "Henry" or something. The whole thing would be a goddamn phonetic abomination.

Yo, what do you think people's accents will sound like in a century from now? Crazy shit. Sorry, I'm like either half-awake, half-dead, half-asleep or all four.

...How the shit did I turn "vowel" into a verb? The Ghost of the English Language is going to murder me.

Fuck. Good post, IW?

[Deathravin]

If it's from the Qur'an and Sunnah I accept it.

You call it blind following. I call it Yaqeen. (certainty)

I'm a Muslim. I follow the teachings of the Qur'an. Muhammad is teh sheeet.
Oh, nope... sorry I just realized that's stupid and I'm now renouncing the Islamic faith.

I have committed Apostasy. PM me and I'll give you my address so you can come kill me. It's your holy duty as a Muslim.

[IorakeWarhammer]

Let us look at Noble Verse 2:217 "They ask thee (Mohammed) Concerning fighting In the Prohibited Month. Say: Fighting therein Is a grave (offence); but graver is it In the sight of Allah to prevent access to the path of Allah, to deny Him, to prevent access to the sacred Mosque, and drive out its members. Tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter. Nor will they cease fighting you until they turn you back from your faith if they can. And if any of you turn back from their faith (Islam) and die in unbelief, their works will bear no fruit in this life and in the hereafter; they will be companions of the fire and will abide therein." Here in this Holy Verse we see that Allah Almighty talks about those who leave Islam, and promises them punishment in the day of judgment. Allah Almighty doesn't order the death of those people.

Let also look at Noble Verse 5:54 "O ye who believe! If any from among you turn back from his faith, soon will Allah produce a people whom He (Allah) will love as they will love Him lowly with the believers, Mighty against the rejecters, fighting in the way of Allah, and never afraid of the reproachers of such as find fault. That is the Grace of Allah which He will bestow on whom He (Allah) pleaseth. And Allah encompasseth all, and He knoweth all things." Here in this Holy Verse we see again Allah Almighty strengthening the faith of the Muslims in Islam by assuring them that whenever they see Muslims leaving Islam they will also see those who join Islam with strong faith and love to Allah Almighty.

http://www.answering-christianity.com/apostates.htm

might be a good site to read if you're actually interested in the truth about this issue

[Deathravin]

It sure is a popular and widely used practice for something that Islam doesn't condone.

[IorakeWarhammer]

hundreds of thousands of youth in America, born into Islam by their immigrant parents, have completely left the religion. they barely practice it. you don't see them getting killed. what you see is the occasional honor killing based on cultural pride.

i have rarely even heard that issue being discussed among Muslims.

i think you're barking up the wrong tree here

[waywardgs]

hundreds of thousands of youth in America, born into Islam by their immigrant parents, have completely left the religion. they barely practice it. you don't see them getting killed.

Holy shit, you nailed it.

[Deathravin]

hundreds of thousands of youth in America, born into Islam by their immigrant parents, have completely left the religion. they barely practice it. you don't see them getting killed. what you see is the occasional honor killing based on cultural pride.

i have rarely even heard that issue being discussed among Muslims.

i think you're barking up the wrong tree here

People like the IDEA of religion better than the reality of it.

[Warriorbird]

People like the IDEA of religion better than the reality of it.

Yeah. It's kind of like how IW couldn't cope with his Islam if he wasn't a Truther.

[Latrinsorm]

It sure is a popular and widely used practice for something that Islam doesn't condone.Which begs the question - if people who claim to be Islamic are doing something that Islam doesn't condone (or actively forbids), are they actually Islamic?

[IorakeWarhammer]

No. In the act of disobedience, one is not in a state of Islam (submission) to God's will. When one does not transgress, one's life becomes a continual act of worship, building up momentum towards tranquility. A lengthy act of worship will allow one to taste the sweetness of faith.

edit: sorry Anticor, had to answer that.

[Deathravin]

Most people in a religion cherry pick what they like and ignore the inconveniently horrible parts they'd rather not believe. Far easier to hear, "Love thy neighbor" than "You must kill any disobedient children".

[Latrinsorm]

Most people in a religion cherry pick what they like and ignore the inconveniently horrible parts they'd rather not believe. Far easier to hear, "Love thy neighbor" than "You must kill any disobedient children".Surely you agree that what "neighbor" means in that phrase is not what you or I would mean by "neighbor" in everyday speech. Knowing that, wouldn't you agree that you can't reliably take any of the words on face value? If we posit the existence of people who devote a great deal of time to the study of these phrases and their origins, wouldn't it make sense to take their word for what those phrases really mean? I've never done the research into the Aramaic of late antiquity to confirm or deny what is meant by "neighbor", but it seems consistent with the overall feel of the message for it to mean everybody. The same can't be said for the second directive, and I'll wager that if you provide a citation for it the research will show that it also should not be taken at contemporary face value.

In any event, I don't feel that your response really answers the question. If a person does something that contradicts a religion, whether we define that religion by text or tradition, is it in any way useful to call that person an adherent of that religion?

[Tea & Strumpets]

hundreds of thousands of youth in America, born into Islam by their immigrant parents, have completely left the religion. they barely practice it. you don't see them getting killed. what you see is the occasional honor killing based on cultural pride.

i have rarely even heard that issue being discussed among Muslims.

i think you're barking up the wrong tree here

You're not really a Muslim, are you? I'm just asking because I'm ready to hate all Muslims based solely on you being one.

[IorakeWarhammer]

I'm an alien. But be careful.. if you post that you hate aliens I'm gonna drop by in my UFO later, beam you up and stick sophisticated looking medical devices into your sphincter.