Uhhhh!!...bards?

[Jukes316]

So...after all the help I received in ranger thread..(grateful)..
My buddy said I shoulda made a bard for our group..
And well that made me start going back and forth on what I should be.. (always happens in games..)

SO..I was wondering how are bards?

I'll come up with more questions as I choose if I really want to start over.

Thanks for any responses. :)

[pabstblueribbon]

Bards are generally known for being sub-par in Gemstone.

Especially pure bards.

[Jukes316]

So..not really that great?

[pabstblueribbon]

So..not really that great?

Touchdown!

[NocturnalRob]

The opposite of what PBR said.

[Jukes316]

HIBBIDY HOO BLAH BLAH!!!

Everyone twisting things up. lol.

[Elvenlady]

Bards are awesome. 'Nuff said!

[Drevihyin]

Bards are very versatile.

[Jukes316]

How are TWC bards?
I wonder if I'd miss BIG hits for two lessers.

[waywardgs]

I have a twc bard. Fun stuff, especially after you can start running tonis regularly. You look like a lawnmower if you throw in a little MoC.

[LeDru]

Bards are nice and great in a group since their group songs like tonis and kais triumph don't count against spellburst in older areas.

[Jukes316]

Tonis seems so far down the road tho.
How are they in younger stages?

And how are they solo? Not just in groups?
Cuz I do have a group to run with right now.. a Pally and Ranger..which is sort of why I'm wondering if I should make a bard instead of my ranger.

[Jukes316]

Alright. I'ma make one.Wish meh luck.

[phantasm]

Things in the younger stages are exactly the same for every profession.

[Jukes316]

How does singing to gems and such work?
I never really got the hang of it.

[Anebriated]

http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Purification_Song_(1004)

[Asha]

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~laplante/gemstone/bardguide.html

[nub]

www.espn.com

[Warriorbird]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_LyGAS5wcFuM/TLJx7-DkjyI/AAAAAAAADB8/3LXEN-d2694/s1600/R-294269-1284429453.jpeg

Way stronger than DR ones.

[Jukes316]

Alright so its lookin like
1x armor
2x OHE
2x twc
1x dodge, pf, cman, hp
1x bard spells
1x tele, air (might not be possible but we'll see when I actually make switch)
1x perception
.5 skinning (worth it? lich usually skins so wondering if it'll help)4


Usually max my weapon of choice, so its weird just 2xing.
I'd like to get MoC but seems tight on points.
Might be because of my stats (just for low lvls).

Any advice?

[Warriorbird]

I'd skip the idea of training for skinning.

[Suppressed Poet]

Alright so its lookin like
1x armor
2x OHE
2x twc
1x dodge, pf, cman, hp
1x bard spells
1x tele, air (might not be possible but we'll see when I actually make switch)
1x perception
.5 skinning (worth it? lich usually skins so wondering if it'll help)4


Usually max my weapon of choice, so its weird just 2xing.
I'd like to get MoC but seems tight on points.
Might be because of my stats (just for low lvls).

Any advice?

This is possible, but it will be very training intensive. Points will be very scarce and it’s going to be difficult to add any tertiary skills. You are going to find defense being an issue, especially at the lower levels. A few recommendations for this build:

Telepathy is a good lore, but with just about any physical bard build I would choose air lore first. Do 1x air lore and add in telepathy ranks when you can.

Don't skin. Bards are not built for skinning and 0.5x in survival or first aid isn't going to let you skin anything reliably. If you are using .loot, you can turn skinning off.

MOC is really a must for this build. The mechanical idea behind TWC is to kill fast. I would perhaps drop CMAN to maybe .5 or 0.75 or not fully 2x in TWC (but close) and throw in MOC when you can.

Personally I think 1x perception is not necessary. 0.5x is plenty. Others will disagree, and yes it is cheap.

Add more Dodge if you can. You might not have the points so at minimum don't let dodge fall lower than 1x.

Pick one of the faster races without a strength penalty. You will want a high agidex with TWC and MOC. Elf would be a good choice.

TWC is fun, but your defense will be significantly lower than that of sword/board build. Sonic shields are the best kind of shields in the game because you can lower the shield size hinderance. Not trying to change your mind, but look into it first before you set yourself to this build.

[Jukes316]

Thanks for the responses :)

Yea it seems very tight with everything I want to accomplish.
But do-able.

Alright so 1x air instead of telepathy.. Is there a good spot on Telepathy to stop at? Like a break, or just keep .5x.

What level is good to start using a sonic weapon on a consistent basis?
Thinkin of using two short swords..quick and flares.. but we'll see how I like it.

[Suppressed Poet]

It's relative. In the earlier levels you will have to choose which songs you can afford to have up and which you can live without. Personally, I think you can live without constant use of sonic weapon until at least level 20. At 20, I believe it’s a 4x weapon with great flares. Get yourself a cheap 4x weapon until then.

If you are going to go TWC, then I would make use of 1019 as soon as you get it.

Telepathy always helps because it increases your renewal times. I plan to stop obtaining ranks when I have 25. At 25 ranks you get an extra +5 AS to 1007. After that, I'm switching over to manipulation. Again, always 1x in air lore.

Two short swords is a good choice. Use the sonic weapon in your right hand and eventually get a crit weighted weapon in your left. The flares will stun, and the weighted weapon will have the killing power.

[Drevihyin]

http://carabele.com/odds/LoreBenefits.htm

[Jukes316]

What armor should i be working towards? it be nice to 2x so i can jump armors quick but that ain't happenin.

[Suppressed Poet]

Augmented Chain. Train to 60 ranks or 90 ranks if you plan to use MnE spells while hunting.

I don't see 2x happening with that build. :)

[Jukes316]

Alright, I coulda swore that 2x short swords was 4rt? And 5rt mstrike...
Was I just tripping? Cause now I"m sort of bummed that it is 5 rt and not 4rt....

[Warriorbird]

Some race and stat influences but you were probably thinking 2 daggers.

[Jukes316]

:(
well that realy sucks and totally changes how I see things...
Like why would I use two short swords...if two falchions would be the same RT? But the falchions would hit harder.
Would they?
I wanted to be quick..and thought 2 short swords were,..guesss not! :(

[Drakefang]

If you are going to go TWC, then I would make use of 1019 as soon as you get it.

Two short swords is a good choice. Use the sonic weapon in your right hand and eventually get a crit weighted weapon in your left. The flares will stun, and the weighted weapon will have the killing power.

1019 is good enough that there is little excuse not to use it when any bard gets it. I'd shoot for 414 first then run up to 1019, though.

Two short swords in an excellent choice, but mainly for non-basic attacks. It helps versus falchions when you start using 30 ranks of MOC to clear a room and/or when open ambushing with regard to your RT.

DO NOT USE YOUR SONIC IN YOUR RIGHT HAND. Always use you sonic weapon in your left hand, even more so if you have a higher STR bonus than DEX. Here's why. It's virtually weightless. Based on the mechanics of TWC, you always want the lighter weapon in your off hand, so your left. Additionally, your sonic weapon will have a higher AS to compensate for the off hand loss of your STR bonus. Alternatively, you go with a higher DF weapon in your right hand and sonic short sword in your left.

[Suppressed Poet]

DO NOT USE YOUR SONIC IN YOUR RIGHT HAND. Always use you sonic weapon in your left hand, even more so if you have a higher STR bonus than DEX. Here's why. It's virtually weightless. Based on the mechanics of TWC, you always want the lighter weapon in your off hand, so your left. Additionally, your sonic weapon will have a higher AS to compensate for the off hand loss of your STR bonus. Alternatively, you go with a higher DF weapon in your right hand and sonic short sword in your left.

Never thought about that, but that makes perfect sense. I forgot about the weight factor in the mechanics of TWC. Sorry that I gave bad advice there.

[Jukes316]

Thanks for the responses guys.
I'm level 12 now.
It's tough doing everything with the TP's I'm getting.
Have to either go for Air lore or Telepathy.
Going with Tele for now since I can't really use my sonics too much. :/
Did switch a few times just to try it out. Was cool..only a few flares. Be nice once I actually find another flaring weapon.

I did switch all my skills around polearm, and it seems to free up A LOT of tp's. Wondering if I should try that route..just smash smash smash...
But I think I'll let the twc carry out and really see how it is once I get around 20.

[RevonIsAwesome]

Thanks for the responses guys.
I'm level 12 now.
It's tough doing everything with the TP's I'm getting.
Have to either go for Air lore or Telepathy.
Going with Tele for now since I can't really use my sonics too much. :/
Did switch a few times just to try it out. Was cool..only a few flares. Be nice once I actually find another flaring weapon.

I did switch all my skills around polearm, and it seems to free up A LOT of tp's. Wondering if I should try that route..just smash smash smash...
But I think I'll let the twc carry out and really see how it is once I get around 20.


I have tried every single type of bard and i'll say the best in my opinion is the polearm bard. They hit VERY hard and only get better the older you become.

Contrary to what others have said, start off with TELEPATHY lore first. Air lore is not needed until you can actually get a serious benefit from using sonic weapons. You can use a sonic weapon without air lores in the beginning and still get flares. Telepathy lore gives you an AS bonus from Kai's song (which is awesome) and among other things it also allows your songs to last longer before you have to renew which is a HUGE PLUS (especially in the beginning) since you wont have too much mana.

Training in polearms gives you tons of extra tp's to put in other skills. Here is my recommendation for training:

2x polearm
1x CM (until you can get more in)
1x Dodge
1x PT
1x songs and spells (Go up the SONGS list at least up to 1020. You can get 401, 406 and 414 from others if you REALLY need it.)
1x telepathy
1x Air lore (when the points are available at mid levels)
1x Mental lore (up to 20 ranks. I only did this because it helps 1040 break stuns and so forth which REALLY helps. 1040 has got to be one of the best spells in the game. It also effects other songs as well. Look it up)
Get about 5 ranks of MOC (more if you really want it but remember, you'll be swinging so fast in later levels that you wont be using MSTRIKE. I brought mine down to 5 ranks because I NEVER use it after swinging a Pilum every second, a jeddart-axe every 2 seconds, or a lance every 3 seconds. You cant beat that)
1x harness power (Mana is PRECIOUS to a bard)
.5 - 1x perception (this helps with ranged DS. This is a polearm users weakness)

The remaining TP's can go to whatever you want. Arcane and MIU is good to have so you can use magic items and scrolls to supplement the spells you may not have yet.


Player of Revon Delkarum.

[Jukes316]

AHHHHHH!!!!
You guys make it so tough lol.
Thank you for that great response Revon. Seen you in-game the other day and I remember you from back in the day. Was going to ask you some questions but decided not to.

I really want this TWC build to work..it's just...tough?

Idk what else to say..without sounding like a broken record...

Thanks for all the responses though.

[Suppressed Poet]

You must keep in mind, especially with bards, there are so many different combinations you can make. Revon thinks polearms are the best. Some will think pure bards are the best. I like sword and board because sonic shield is crazy good. TWC has some good advantages as well. Truth is, they are all great and you cank take them all the way to post-cap.

In a polearm build, I would agree air lore isn't going to be quite as important early on. For me - I planned to use all of the sonic equipment so air lore is an absolute must from the beginning. I wanted 20 ranks of air lore early to decrease the size penalty of my shield by 1. Telepathy is also an important lore. I just have a different view and started picking up ranks in my 20s.

The decision is up to you and just pick what you think is best. Make goals for your character and choose your training to acomplish those goals. Take the advice you hear in the PC, including and most importantly mine, with a grain of salt. The good news about being a bard, it is really really hard to fuck them up. Even if you do, you can always fixskills.


I really want this TWC build to work..it's just...tough?

In addition, keep in mind EVERYTHING is tough in the earlier levels. You won't have the points to spare to get all the things you need and want. It will get easier once you train to your armor and a few more TPs per level. Don't get discouraged and don't forget to have fun. :)

[Jukes316]

Do TWC users usually sing their armor? or buy some?

Yea. I think I just need to pick and choose what I hunt.
Anything with armor sucks..but trolls and such without are my best friend lol.
I think once I get a few more levels and can actually sing most of my songs, i'll start having some real fun.

Just one thing I'm wondering about is if I ever PvP. I know 1005 em...but ain't gonna have that one swing that'll just smash em.
But if I get to 35? ranks in MoC I could double mstrike em. /grin

I'm sure as these coming levels arise I'll have a few more questions abuot them. Like unraveling and certain other ones.

[AMUSED1]

As a bard, especially in Prime, I'd heavily recommend to sing your own equipment. That allows you to stop spending your silvers on upgrades every so often and instead just stockpiling until you can buy some really awesome armor.

[Jukes316]

When can I start that though?
Cause right now I can barely keep up 1003, 1007, 1010

[Suppressed Poet]

When can I start that though?
Cause right now I can barely keep up 1003, 1007, 1010

That is all you are going to be able to do while you are young. As your renewal time + mana regen and supply increases, you can add more songs. I would pick up some 4x armor and two 4x weapon with flares. They are cheap and will suffice until you take advantage of your sonic equipment.

[Jukes316]

It's pretty hard finding a 4x flaring short sword.
There were a couple but they were 1mill, since they had agi/dex bonus.
But got a 4x acid one and just a regular 4x right now.

Love going into warcamps. Just swinging away and MoCing.

Do you think I should 1x MoC or fit in when possible since TP budget is tight.

-
Nvm re-read Revon's post of how it's not really a factor once with Tonis.
But it would be nice to MoC someone.

[Jukes316]

Alright...
Migration period almost over...
And I cant choose haha...

Doing a few hunts in Wehntoph, Ogre warriors and such..

Tried lances...just too heavy rght now..don't like the 6rt..and if I mstrike WOW. RT hell for me lol.

Tried an awl-pike, 5 rt. Much better. Mstrike still sucks..

Going to try twc next hunt, miss quick mstrikes.
We'll see how it goes.

[Warriorbird]

Consider looking at the naginata.

[NocturnalRob]

Consider looking at the naginata.
Naginata, please

[Warriorbird]

Naginata, please

http://bujinkan.hr/novosti/data/upimages/Davor-Ivica-Naginata-1.jpg

[Jukes316]

Hahahaha.

Well I'm using sonics..and can't use a naginata...unless I just buy one..

But either lance..but 6rt is killer..
or Awl-pikes.

[DevonG]

Out of curiosity, what's so great about the naginata? I recall them naturally being +20 enchant. However, how do they perform in the field? They got low DF?

[Asha]

You used to be able to e-blade them, effectively making them 8x but they've removed the +20 and given it a better AvD instead.
Use a lance.

[Warriorbird]

You used to be able to e-blade them, effectively making them 8x but they've removed the +20 and given it a better AvD instead.
Use a lance.

They no longer have the lame halberd DFs too, from what I remember. I just thought of it as something to tide him along till he was more lance capable.