Cybersex=Cheating?

[CrystalTears]

Someone mentioned in another thread about cybersex is like cheating, and it's been a hot topic in the news lately with statistics of cybersex and chat rooms being a problem with relationships.

So I'm asking... do you consider cybersex cheating on your significant other? Is it the act of "sex" with a stranger and not them?

I had considered making it a poll, but I think it has grey areas that "yes", "no", and "maybe" can't cover. :D

[Artha]

Do people still have cybersex? I thought that went out of style in the late 90s...

[Taernath]

Heh.. If I ever caught my girlfriend having cybersex with someone, then yeah, I'd consider it cheating.

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by Artha
Do people still have cybersex? I thought that went out of style in the late 90s...

Apparently. There was a recent "study" (not sure how much investigation they did on the subject) saying that cybersex and chat rooms are fastly becoming one of the largest problems for relationships to deal with.

As far as I'm concerned, cybersex, chat rooms and that type of thing doesn't bother me. What would bother me is if I was abandoned or left behind to do it. But in and of itself, I consider it to be like porn, titty bars and smut magazines. Those are eye candy... cybersex is mental candy. :D

[Skirmisher]

I think my opinion about mirrors yours Crystal.

Only if I found myself left alone in favor of a computer screen would I be upset.

If they are just playing around then I don't have a problem with it, just be sure not to let the priorities become blurred.

[i remember halloween]

if your gf/bf is lame enough to have cybersex dump them for that reason alone.

[CrystalTears]

May as well dump them if they watch bad porn too. :D

[godShell]

Cybersex is a bad idea if you are involved with someone. If you ask them first and they don't mind then I suppose it is fine. People create bonds, cybersex with someone you talk to online all the time can lead to lust for that person in real life. Now, would you cybersex the girl next door and think your girlfriend should be ok with it? I think it's giving part of yourself away that has already been given to someone. Candy rots the teeth, remember... mental candy rots integrity :O

[Artha]

I think I'm going to agree with Irememberhalloween...

[Warriorbird]

It's an issue of priorities. Porn's typically not interactive and fueled by a real person who wants a relationship (other than one based around money). It can be pretty dangerous. Mind you, if a couple talks it out, and they're fine with it? More power to em. Still, they should watch their priorities and make sure they use it like a porn movie rather than a life that takes over their real one.

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by godShell
Candy rots the teeth, remember... mental candy rots integrity :O


Heh, still don't agree with you, but like the soundbite.

[Dighn Darkbeam]

If my girlfriend(had I one) was having cybersex with someone other than myself I would wonder why I couldnt be enough for her.

If I was a girl(not touching that one) I doubt I would mind if my bf looked at porn or cybered. Its what guys do. I would get pissed if it was with someone he currently knew In Person or previously dated or something.

No Dighn, Just the player

[Artha]

f my girlfriend(had I one) was having cybersex with someone other than myself I would wonder why I couldnt be enough for her.

Dighn, maybe you just don't have a big enough...vocabulary?

(that was a joke, please don't hurt me.)

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by Dighn Darkbeam
If my girlfriend(had I one) was having cybersex with someone other than myself I would wonder why I couldnt be enough for her.

I respect that feeling, but also realize that you can't be everything for someone.

Fantasies, porns, strip bars, cybersex.. it's just something to feed the erotica in people. A lot of the times, cybering is done with a stranger, a nameless person, and once they give that last moan :D they walk away and it's over and there was really never a relationship.

There are instances where those cybersessions and chat conversations turn into more. Then again, if someone is dissatisfied with the relationship they are in that they are willing and wanting to take the steps of growing that cyberfling, I don't think it really matters where they find the person to begin with. The internet just makes it easier in some ways to do (as in not needing to leave home to get some cybernookie).

Just some thoughts. :)

[Dighn Darkbeam]

Dighn, maybe you just don't have a big enough...vocabulary?

(that was a joke, please don't hurt me.)


Dont hurt you?!!!!! I Just earned 20 mana you fool!

Prep 720

Cast Athra

I cannot find who you are refering to

Swear unheard

Cast at Artha

cover artha

The end

[Gokkem]

I never understood the big deal behind cybersex. Doesn't do anything for me.

[CrystalTears]

Woo! Nice post, Melissa. :D

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I don't cyber, and I think if my hypothetical girlfriend did, I'd consider it cheating.

I wouldn't mind if she looked at porn, and hope she wouldn't if I did.

My only distinction is I think when it is a person to person interaction, then it becomes cheating. And you cheat on me, mentally or physically, hit the bricks baby.

[CrystalTears]

Does that mean you wouldn't allow her to go to a strip bar? That's interacting with another person, and I'm sure if she saw a hottie on stage wiggling his fandango that she would have fantasies about him. Would that bother you?

It's really just a question out of curiosity. I like to hear the other side's perspective on this topic. :D Yeah I'm a piggie! I admit it!

[Edited on 8/1/2003 by CrystalTears]

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Hmm, good question. No, strip club wouldn't bother me.

I guess by person to person, I mean something that could be perceived as a becoming a 'real relationship'. You are typing to a distinct person, whom you develop a very personal fantasy with.

Also to clarify, a trip or two to the strip club, ok. Going every other day... would bother me (I'm not one to frequent them anyway, call me conservative).

[imported_Kranar]

I think cybersex is just absolutely pathetic and pitiful, but then again I think going to strip clubs and looking at porn are pretty pathetic too. I mean if someone is typing out having sex to someone else on the internet, I honestly think that person has serious issues that need resolving. If someone ever stopped and thought about how degrading it is while they're actually doing it, you know... just stopped and asked themselves "What the hell am I doing here?"... I think they'd feel ashamed.

Being lonely and bored is one thing... but resorting to cybersex is on a much lower level.

[Edited on 8-1-2003 by Kranar]

[imported_Kranar]

<< But GS isn't real and will never be real. >>

If GS isn't real, then why do something as lame as cyber-sex? Not saying YOU'RE doing it, but many people say cyber-sex is okay because it's not real.

I just think that's an easy excuse.

[Edited on 8-1-2003 by Kranar]

[CrystalTears]

But it's not real. They're just words. There's no physical contact, no risk involved (not physically anyway), and to some it's just another aspect of life that can be roleplayed.

Why kill critters with swords and bows all day long, watching their heads roll and be victorious about it? It's not real and it's not really happening, no animals were really hurt in the making of GS. <grins> But you do it anyway right? Why? Probably because it's something you can't do for real. Something you can't bring yourself to really do but the curiosity is there. Well that's what cybering is. Feeding the curiosity without the risk. The risk would lie in you making it more than it needs to be, whether it be going out and finding real sex with someone else, or finding a real animal to kill. The responsibility lies with the person behind the screen, regardless of the activity.

Hell sometimes people use it for ideas for their own lovelife. It's interesting to see what some people like and don't like.

It's really quite a skill to be able to explain some things with enough clarity and detail to actually turn someone on. It's almost a high.

It's pretty obvious that I used to partake in that. I guess some of you will think less of me now. Oh well. I don't feel ashamed over it and I won't apologize for what I did. I don't do it anymore because it really doesn't do anything for me, but I understand it and don't mind it. I just happen to know where the boundaries are when it comes to that.

You wanna hear bizarre? I never denied my exhusband anything. I was always there for him. Yes I was (and will always be) consumed with my computer and playing on it for countless hours but I never neglected him. I was always home, took care of the house, took care of his kids when they came over, paid the bills and everything that goes along with being a good wife. He started to assume I was cybering because of how many people I spoke with online. Do you know how he responded to that? By having sex, real sex, with his exgirlfriend. I still don't understand his logic and I don't think I ever will.

TMI, Crystal! TMI! :D

[Edited on 8/1/2003 by CrystalTears]

[imported_Kranar]

<< It's really quite a skill to be able to explain some things with enough clarity and detail to actually turn someone on. It's almost a high. >>

Explaining sexual innuendo is quite possibly the cheapest form of English expression. I think most people would be able to easily engage someones interest and attention with sex, a lot harder than they would be able to engage someones attention with something other than sex. Heck, Shakespeare uses sex in his plays to attract the attention of the commoners and the lower class audience of his plays. And even so, don't you think it's a tad bit degrading if one has to resort to sex on the internet to grab someone elses attention? To "stimulate" them?

Is it really a high, or even close to getting high, thinking to oneself that some lonely guy is sitting on a chair looking into a computer monitor and might be jerking himself off?

<< The risk would lie in you making it more than it needs to be, whether it be going out and finding real sex with someone else, or finding a real animal to kill. >>

Why is having REAL sex more of a risk than cyber sex. I mean according to everything you said, if someday someone could devise a perfect pill that removed any risk of pregnancy or STD, then prostitution would be perfectly fine. I mean you're not cheating, you're just feeding a curiosity. Heck, may as well do drugs. Many people are curious about drugs, and if you take the risk away then drugs become perfectly fine, right?

I find it incredibly hard to believe that once you take away the physical risks associated with an action, then it becomes morally acceptable. A good and famous play that illustrates the opposite is called The Balcony, where people are free to live out their wildest dreams with no risk attached, and so they assume that no consequences can result from their actions while there.

Somethings I feel are just inappropriate. Sure you can do it, sure you have the right to do it and no one can boss you around and say otherwise... but as good advice, sometimes it worth it to just reflect on your own actions, to be honest with yourself and ask whether what your doing is really what you *should* be doing. Only the individual himself can answer that... but I think most people, if they just took the time to reflect on why they're having sex over the internet of all things... would feel pretty ashamed and guilty about it.

[Edited on 8-2-2003 by Kranar]

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by Kranar
And even so, don't you think it's a tad bit degrading that you have to resort to sex on the internet to grab someones attention? To "stimulate" them?

Why do you say resorting to sex on the internet as though everyone goes there as their last chance at sex? I have always been a rather sexually active person (yes with live people) and I thought cybersex was funny and entertaining. And I meant stimulate in the sense of... rather difficult to explain... arouse with interest as in, "oh that was a neat thing" or "hadn't thought of doing THAT" or whatever.


Is it really a high, or even close to getting high, thinking to yourself that some lonely guy is sitting on a chair looking into a computer monitor and might be jerking himself off?

Heh, that's so not the high I'm referring to, and quite frankly, when they're typing I have built up in my own mind what they look like and what they're doing. And yes, if it means that I'm visualizing Antonio Banderas at the other end jerking off, I have a fat happy smile on my face. But that's me. That's what intrigues me, and it's obvoiusly not something that intrigues other people.

Let me put it this way. The people in the relationship define what is acceptable and what isn't for them as a couple. I'm sure that if there was some miracle pill that took away ALL possible chances of pregnany and STD's, you can bet it would be Fuckfest 2000+.

I am rather open minded in my views about relationships. There's some things that even I don't know if I could do like threesomes with my fiance or couple swapping and all that kinky stuff. I have no problem should my fiance engage in cybersex, look at porn, go to smut sites, download porn, just as long as he brings that energy to my bed and shares it with me. Then again I'm the kind of gal who goes to strip clubs, watches porn, and turn and comment when I see a hot woman passing by. I still don't think that makes me unfaithful.

I don't care where you get your appetite as long as you eat at home. :D

[Neildo]

My opinion on cybersex is practically dead-on with Crystaltears views. Everything she's said is what I would have said.

There's nothing wrong with cybersex as it's just another form of fantasy. Everyone, even married couples, have fantasies that don't involved their spouse. Is that cheating? They think about that hot girl/guy, look at porn, read cheesy romantic novels, go to strip clubs, and the like. Cybersex is no different.

People talk about the interaction but how different is that from having a lapdance or a stripper shoving their tits/package in your face? And while that's physical interaction, remember cybersex is a mental interaction. Most fantasies are mental interactions. So just because another person isn't physically typing their mental interaction for cybersex, next time remember your fantasy-like thoughts. I don't know about you, but when someone is fantasizing about having sex with someone, those thoughts sure as heck is interaction.

And why do people not have a problem with strip clubs as opposed to cybersex? Heck, you would think people would be more worried about physical interaction as opposed to mental. You may think a stripclub is fine since they're somewhat "professional" whereas average joe on the computer may or may not have rules, but hey, strippers go home with guys/girls all the time so don't think because someone is a professional they're somehow more trustworthy.

So yeah, cybersex is fine, it's just another form of fantasy. The only problem with cybersex is like every other problem with similar things.. when people get too involved with it. Whenever something else takes precedence over their spouse, that's when it's a problem. It doesn't matter if it's your hubby fixing his car all the time and not spending time with you, him whacking off to porn more than having sex with you, s/he going to stripclubs every day, s/he having cybersex all day and night, or heck, even just working 24/7 or whatever else. It's not the activity that is the problem (as you mature you tend to realize that.. I used to think cybersex was cheating or even flirting was, but later realized it's really not a big deal.. and is more of a hypocritical insecurity problem when you end up doing those activities too, heh) but rather the person's self-control when doing the activity. So long as they can control themselves and aren't doing crazy things, go ahead and trust them. Remember you're the one they're coming home to each night (so long as you're not being used, lol, way to throw that curveball in at the end).

Damn and here I was gonna make one quick paragraph dittoing Crystaltears views, lol. What the hell, you all know I ramble. Oh well. :P

- N

[Red Devil]

Sad sad losers... :wow:

[Bestatte]

Originally posted by godShell
Cybersex is a bad idea if you are involved with someone. If you ask them first and they don't mind then I suppose it is fine. People create bonds, cybersex with someone you talk to online all the time can lead to lust for that person in real life. Now, would you cybersex the girl next door and think your girlfriend should be ok with it? I think it's giving part of yourself away that has already been given to someone. Candy rots the teeth, remember... mental candy rots integrity :O

I can think of plenty of sound arguements against cybersex, but this one just seems pretty lame to me.

Working in an office with mixed genders can lead to lust too, especially if the sysop is a total buff hunk and your cubicle is right next to it. Does that mean I shouldn't work there? Does that mean hubby should worry? Hell no.

Further, it wouldn't bother me a bit if the secretary in hubby's place of employment was some exquisite gorgeous woman. It wouldn't even bother me if he lusted when he saw her. It -would- bother me if he didn't, in fact.

My own opinion is that cybersex is no different from porn magazines or smut websites or sex videos. And I certainly don't consider it my husband's business (or anyone else's) if I masturbate or not. I do, however, feel that it is simply a physical thing, that has no particular emotion attached to it. I have no issue with it if my husband does it, and he has none if I do. The reason we don't have an issue with it, is because it's a private matter that has nothing to do with each other.

It's kinda like taking a pee. I don't invite him to watch me pee, I don't invite him to watch me take care of any other physical need. Making love isn't "having sex." When I make love with my husband it isn't as much a physical thing as it is an emotional bond. It is expressed physically, but that isn't the purpose of it.

And now that you've all heard "too much information" from me, continue to discuss amongst yourselves.

[Artha]

I've oft wanted to cyber with someone, playing the part of the girl, only to inform them afterwords I was a man, and they were now gay.

[godShell]

I can think of plenty of sound arguements against cybersex, but this one just seems pretty lame to me.

Weird you feel it's lame, because it is very true. Makes perfect sense though, right? It isn't that cyber sex may cause lust, cyber sex is a manifestation of lust - and as others have said, if you indulge too much, as with all things, unhealthy results can spring forth. I personally would not feel compelled whatsoever to have cybersex, go to a strip club, or anything sexual while seeing someone in real life, so my own views skew my philosophies (as do all of yours). Another of my views is to avoid something altogether that may be dangerous, i.e. crack. I'd rather not walk any boundaries that could danger something I care so much about. One thing I do admire, and at the same time disagree with, is how you can feel so open (secure?) about watching naked people dance, flirting, and typing out a text sex-fling.

[Back]

cyber sex = safe sex

And further more... it strikes me odd that murder, death, blood, and killing is more acceptable than sex in any genre.

I think it was CrystalTears who mentioned its more of a healthy exercise in what you can be comfortable with in real life. I completely agree. Its amazing what a good old fashioned alnglo saxon word can do in the midst of passion. :)

[Edited on 8-2-2003 by Backlash]

[Gokkem]

Way to go CrystalTears. I agree 100%.

[imported_Kranar]

<< cyber sex = safe sex >>

Maybe to you... to me cyber sex = real bored and nothing better to do.

Anyways, people are free to live their lives however they want... I just can't believe someone can say with a straight face that sitting infront of a computer screen playing with themselves isn't a tad bit degrading.

We're starting to get a little too comfortable with too many things, as if it's a good thing. Sometimes you just have to sit back and ask yourself if maybe getting comfortable is a bad idea.

"Guess what? I'm comfortable with my drug use! It's all good and I'm no longer insecure about it!"

"Oh that's great! I'm comfortable with my prostitutes man. I mean I used to think it was a bit bad... but now that I'm not insecure about it, it's all good cause I can have sex whenever I want."

"Oh wow! Being comfortable about these things is so amazing! Let's find other morally questionable actions to be comfortable about so we don't feel bad about it when we do it. Life is so much better when you don't need to take responsibility for your actions, it's so much more... comfortable."

[Edited on 8-2-2003 by Kranar]

[Back]

Maybe to you... to me cyber sex = real bored and nothing better to do.

Couldn't get much safer without actual body contact, much less swapping fluids.


"Oh wow! Being comfortable about these things is so amazing! Let's find other morally questionable actions to be comfortable about so we don't feel bad about it when we do it. Life is so much better when you don't need to take responsibility for your actions, it's so much more... comfortable."

Yeah, like killing things and murder.

[imported_Kranar]

<< Yeah, like killing things and murder. >>

That would be the extreme end of it, but yes it you're right and it does happen. Many murderers are comfortable with their murders, which just comes to show that just because you're comfortable doing something, doesn't mean it's okay or right.

[imported_Kranar]

<< Couldn't get much safer without actual body contact, much less swapping fluids. >>

Because all you're thinking about is physical harm. As if all that counts are simple creature pleasures. Warmth, food, sex.

Humans are more than creatures, we have values, or atleast we're supposed to have values. Anything that corrupts those values is as equally dangerous as something that harms us physically. Don't jeopardize those values simply so you can sit at your computer touching yourself without having to feel guilty for doing it.

It's simply not worth it.

[Edited on 8-2-2003 by Kranar]

[Drew2]

I would comment but people I know read this board. Just know that my opinions have been stated in my own head, and they'll do me as much good there as they would here.

[Back]

Isn't it funny? Why is sex such a taboo subject when murder, death and blood is accepted?

[Sweets]

Originally posted by Backlash
cyber sex = safe sex

And further more... it strikes me odd that murder, death, blood, and killing is more acceptable than sex in any genre.



[Edited on 8-2-2003 by Backlash]



Exactly! I have given the ole cyber a go, curiousity you see, but it seemed to me much like reading a romance novel, watching sex show like thing. No real connection. The real connection comes with physical contact, eye contact etc.

I just don't get why I can chop the head of an Kobold, have blood spurting from my neck but nobody should get "physical" if that's what their character would do.

I think after my experience with cyber I would rather have it implied than done but that's just my preference. If you want to hack it out, more power to ya.

I think it effects everyone differently based on where they stand with themselves and in their life.

Besides...who the heck would wanna cyber with a pregnant lady.:D

[Tendarian]

If your not in a comitted relationship i guess theres nothing wrong with cybersex.

However if you are i think it shows your relationship isnt going anywhere anyway. To have cybersex with someone you probably have to be good friends and of opposite genders im assuming. Then you probably are sharing intimate feelings with this person that you should be sharing with your SO. Thats the real cheating in my mind,giving your inner most thoughts to someone else instead of your SO and that is what is bad with it in my opinion.

Maybe if it was just random strangers who you didnt know then it would come down to dignity and respect and morals and all that junk. So basically im agreeing with Godshell here.

[Bestatte]

Tendarian:

My relationship in real life isn't going anywhere. It is already exactly where it should be. But the reality - of reality - is that we do not live in a fantasy world where everyone has "love at first sight" and romance continues til death do we part.

Fantasy exists to address a certain part of our psyches where we need the occasional spark that we either can't get, or don't want, from our significant other. I love my husband and can't imagine life without him. But just as I don't begrudge him his occasional view of a porn pic, he doesn't begrudge me my occasional foray into cybersex. I am not having sex, real or imagined, with a real person. I am typing words in a text box and reading words someone else is typing, and my body is responding (or not) reflexively to certain triggers those words give me when I see them.

I'm not having a relationship with another real-life person. Not real or imagined. There can be no cheating in any way, shape, or form, if you are not entering into a relationship with another real-life human being.

Now granted, there was a time when I had that confused, but it was short-lived.

I'm not sharing intimate feelings with people when and if I get into a cyber "thing" with them. I'm getting my rocks off, plain and simple. There is no intimacy or emotions involved at all. Men have nocturnal emissions...does that mean they're cheating on their spouses when they have an orgasm that doesn't involve the spouse? To think this is the case is nonsense.

Your body is designed to divulge in pleasurable things. In many different ways. Your body doesn't give a shit if the pleasure comes via a life-partner, a casual fling, its own hand, or mental stimulation by way of a text screen on a computer. All the body knows is that oooh - that feels nice. Or Eh - I can live without that.

A monogamous relationship does not mean you suddenly become dead to any and all physical stimulus from outside sources. Other things will STILL turn you on. By refraining from getting involved with another human being, live and personal, you are still honoring your monogamy. A half hour cyber-sex thing on a text screen with a faceless entity does not constitute "cheating" in my mind.

[Tendarian]

Originally posted by Bestatte
Tendarian:

My relationship in real life isn't going anywhere. It is already exactly where it should be. But the reality - of reality - is that we do not live in a fantasy world where everyone has "love at first sight" and romance continues til death do we part.
You should ask more of your husband then in my opinion,you shouldnt have settled. Romance doesnt have to be flowers and mumbo jumbo. The last five years of my life have been fantastic and i dont see it ever dropping off.

Fantasy exists to address a certain part of our psyches where we need the occasional spark that we either can't get, or don't want, from our significant other. I love my husband and can't imagine life without him. But just as I don't begrudge him his occasional view of a porn pic, he doesn't begrudge me my occasional foray into cybersex. I am not having sex, real or imagined, with a real person. I am typing words in a text box and reading words someone else is typing, and my body is responding (or not) reflexively to certain triggers those words give me when I see them.
If these people you cyber with are complete strangers then yes it might be like a magazine or porn pic.

I'm not having a relationship with another real-life person. Not real or imagined. There can be no cheating in any way, shape, or form, if you are not entering into a relationship with another real-life human being.

Now granted, there was a time when I had that confused, but it was short-lived.
If you have already confused the lines once how can you say it wont happen again?


I'm not sharing intimate feelings with people when and if I get into a cyber "thing" with them. I'm getting my rocks off, plain and simple. There is no intimacy or emotions involved at all. Men have nocturnal emissions...does that mean they're cheating on their spouses when they have an orgasm that doesn't involve the spouse? To think this is the case is nonsense.
That comparison is nonsense i agree. I would also argue if these people arnt complete strangers how can emotions and intimacy not get involved?

Your body is designed to divulge in pleasurable things. In many different ways. Your body doesn't give a shit if the pleasure comes via a life-partner, a casual fling, its own hand, or mental stimulation by way of a text screen on a computer. All the body knows is that oooh - that feels nice. Or Eh - I can live without that.
Yep thats true,but what makes us human and not animals is control.

A monogamous relationship does not mean you suddenly become dead to any and all physical stimulus from outside sources. Other things will STILL turn you on. By refraining from getting involved with another human being, live and personal, you are still honoring your monogamy. A half hour cyber-sex thing on a text screen with a faceless entity does not constitute "cheating" in my mind.
Again if its a stranger i can see your point of view. If not tho what if your hubby and your sister were having cyber sex? Or a co worker he didnt know was yours?

No one is arguing people arnt horny and that once your in a commited relationship that it just turns off. You can be attracted to anything you want to be,but in my opinion having the control and knowing why would i EVER risk losing what i have now for anything is what should stop ya.

[Bestatte]

It's a matter of trust. If you don't have trust in a relationship, then you don't HAVE a relationship.

I trust my husband enough to let him do as he pleases and not ever get suspicious that he's doing anything to risk the marriage. And he trusts me the same way.

When he says he's going to be working late, I don't EVER wonder if he's lying. When he says he's going away on a golfing weekend with his buddies, I don't EVER even think that he might be going to meet women and have sex with them.

I don't have to worry, because I am confident and secure enough to know that he isn't interested in a "relationship" with anyone other than me.

As I've grown older, I've come to understand this about myself as well. That I don't really have any desire to "be" with anyone other than my husband. And he is correct in assuming that he has no reason to worry or wonder that I'm going off to meet a man when I go on weekends without him. As I've said, there was a time when I confused the lines between reality and fantasy. But now I am able to see the lines very clearly, and I have no desire, or reason, to confuse them again. Also as I stated, that confusion was short-lived.

When someone asks me in IM, or brings up the possibility that we might get involved for real, I just am not interested. I don't need anything "real" because I already have that with my husband and that reality suits me just fine.

[Tendarian]

Trust has nothing to do with what i said but ok im glad you all trust each other. I just honestly think its inane to compare a picture of a person in a magazine to cybersex which involves real people. Anytime someone does something morally ambiguous they always bring up trust. We like threesomes,swinging,etc but it works for us cause we trust each other so much. To me thats like someone driving under the influence claiming they drive better cause they are concentrating more. In the long run all these things turn bad or are discontinued before any real harm happens hopefully.

[Neildo]

You're telling other people how to live their life. That's what's wrong.

The problem with most people is that they follow other peoples rules and not their own. They're sheep. They're not taking advantage of a human's gift of free-will to make their own decisions. It's as if their logical reasoning and questionability is nil. They assume every rule, thought, or whatever of the past is the correct one so they follow it. They can't make decisions for themselves.

And no, all that doesn't mean do whatever you want like going on a mass killing spree, it's all within reason. So long as what you do doesn't affect other people unwillingly, there should be absolutely no problem with it at all.

Seriously though, the people that tell other people what to do are the ones with the problem. Those are the ones with the insecurity problems, the ones who are sheep, who can't make decisions for themselves, tend to be highly religious where once again, they're following other people. They're the ones who think their current world is the perfect one. They don't want to move out of their comfort zone and will never evolutionize. No, the present isn't perfect.

For every agument that has been against cybersex, not because it's boring or not their thing, but due to morality issues, you're the one with the problem. Every argument brought up has shown what sort of insecurities you have. People on the other side say they trust their spouse yet you go and say that it's bull? Gimme a break. That shows you can't trust your wo/man.

I dunno, I'll stop here because stupid and ignorant people is the #1 thing on my list of what I can't stand. I reading all these responses from the conservative, old-fashioned people and I can't stop laughing with pity for you all. You have much maturing and evolving to do.

- N

[Tendarian]

I didnt say their trust was bull and calling Kranar conservative is bull.

Maturity isnt thinking people are morons cause they disagree with you. I think Bestatte is a very intelligent woman who speaks her mind. I think she is wrong in this instance but i also dont think there should be any laws against what she does. I am giving my opinion on it as this is what a BB is. Im not insecure,religious or think the world is perfect as is. Where is all this anger coming from?

[CrystalTears]

I think it's rather ironic that people my age and older are the ones who are more liberal and accepting about sexuality, and the younger generation is the one with the old-fashioned values.

Cybersex is all just fantasy for most people. Indulging in things you wouldn't do in real life. If you deny those feelings, you're just cheating yourself of living out your life fully. No I'm not saying to go and have cybersex because that's not for everyone. But at least admit that you have fantasies about other people. It's natural and normal. If my lover told me that he was visualizing Angelina Jolie in his head, it wouldn't bother me one bit (actually it would eventually be in my head.. woo that woman is hot). As Bestatte said, if my lover didn't have fantasies of hot women other than me I'd think he were mental. We're human and have needs and desires and if looking and typing is all that's happening, I see no problem with it.

To say that I'm indulging in sexual activities such as porn, strip bars and cybersex because my relationship is inadequate is a very naive and false thing to assume.

Me: "Honey I had a threesome cyber today."
Him: "Ooh? Wanna show me?"

:D

[Artha]

'Oooo, your As are so well formed!'
'Lemme see those Rs of yours, hunny LOLZ!!'

[Tendarian]

I already did admit that,of course that is normal.

[Tendarian]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
I think it's rather ironic that people my age and older are the ones who are more liberal and accepting about sexuality, and the younger generation is the one with the old-fashioned values.
:D

I also think its funny cause if you go into a chat room a squadron of wank gnomes fall upon the women but here the women are the ones for it and the men seem to be the ones against it. Generally i mean, i have no idea the sex of some of the people here.

[Apollyon]

My girlfriend and I have a very strong relationship. We've known eachother since we were 6 years old, it's one of those lifetime love things... Anyhow, we both agreed that "cheating" is doing anything with someone else you could not do in front of your significant other, or that you would not want them to know about. THAT, ladies and gentlemen, is cheating. So if your significant other would get mad that you are having cyber sex with people (as lame as that is in itself) then yes, it is cheating.

[CrystalTears]

That's what you guys defined as cheating. All relationships define what is and isn't acceptable for their relationship. No one else can define that for them.

I don't like to go to the bathroom with my SO in there, and there's conversations that I have with my friends and coworkers that I don't share with my SO. Does that mean I'm cheating on him?

Hiding and lying is what breaks up relationships, not the activity.

[Edited on 8/2/2003 by CrystalTears]

[Apollyon]

I am more talking about what you do with ANOTHER person of the opposite (or same sex if you swing that way too) that you wouldn't want your significant other to find out about. Like for example, I have this very attractive friend that is a girl named Lorena, now if Lorena and I were sitting on the couch cuddling, JUST cuddling, without kissing, touching sexually, etc. and I knew my girlfriend would not like that I am doing this cuddling with Lorena, that would be cheating on my girlfriend. That would piss me off if she was cuddling with another guy too. Granted, each relationship has it's own definition of cheating... However, I think it can be universal that cheating is considered doing something with another person of possible sexual interest that you would not want your significant other seeing. I think you misunderstood my first post, CrystalTears.

[Neildo]

>>>>However, I think it can be universal that cheating is considered doing something with another person of possible sexual interest that you would not want your significant other seeing.<<<<

Yep, that's what cheating is. However, it doesn't even have to be sexual in nature although that would fall more under neglect than cheating.

I've always wondered why it always has to be something "sexual" that requires cheating or why is it always something sexual that is taboo? You can cheat on someone without having anything sexual to do with someone else. Hell, I'd be more worried that my girlfriend is infatuated and in love with someone else, spending all her time with them rather than having sex with him, heh. Sex is no big deal, but when that whole mental conversion of her no longer being interested in me and rather someone else, that's worse, and nothing sexual had to take place.

People just fear losing things. And anything that has even a remote chance of interrupted what they have, they fear it. It can be anything from "oh my god, there's 90% men in my girlfriends class", to "oh my god, she has a male friend", to "oh my god, her friend is bisexual", "oh my god, Krispy Kreme came up with a donut in the shape of a human".

So even if your girl/boyfriend is totally fine with certain things and will tell you nothing will ever happen and s/he will always be there for you, some insecure people will dislike it just because of that small chance of something bad happening. And with all the horror stories of people leaving their spouse for another person due to online relationships or cybering, the rare cases that it happens, people won't like it.

Really, most things you don't even have to worry about. Most problems stem from a person being insecure and not trusting their spouse. If your spouse says something and you don't trust her, you most likely wouldn't trust her regardless of what the situation is. Well, putting aside things you feel distasteful rather than distrust. And that's why lots of people are single these days. People don't put up with insecure others. That's the #1 reason for things not working out. You just have to learn to go with the flow and realize that most (not all) things are really no big deal. And you'll soon learn that.

That's why Crystaltears finds it odd that the older people aren't old fashioned yet the younger ones are. Those disagreeing just don't have much experience and haven't learned the way of the world yet. Go out, have some fun, absorb everything, and base all your decisions off what you personally have gone through, not some horrors that you heard about yet never experienced. Be a free thinker, not a sheep.

- N

[Bestatte]

CrystalTears brings up an interesting thought.

Let's say in real life, hubby and I get along swell, sex is fine, no problems with fighting about this or that, etc. etc.

Let's say that I have this S&M fantasy involving whips and chains. But let's say also, that in real life, the thought of intentionally putting myself in a position where I or my husband will experience pain is just totally out of the question. I can't fathom it, and to even try to think about it is a total turn-off.

But the IDEA of the act itself..is intriguing. Intriguing enough that I'd just LOVE to experience it from a distance, where it remains in the fantasy setting.

I can't do this with hubby because just knowing he's involved completely destroys the fantasy, because of what I mentioned above.

So what to do? Well, there's this game, called GS, or Inferno, or Armageddon, or Dungeons and Dragons, or Achaea, or Atolia, or Neverwinter Nights or whatever..

Where you can create a fantasy character that doesn't exist in real life, where the opportunity to PRETEND to act out these fantasies exists. Where you can interact and roleplay the entire thing, fulfilling your fantasy without anyone getting hurt or experiencing any actual pain - because the actions are done exclusively through the means of a text-based media.

You better believe I'd take the opportunity if it was presented to me, if that was the kind of thing I wanted to explore.

It's fantasy, and not real. And it's the fact that it IS fantasy that makes it so much fun. When it becomes real, you're dealing with real wounds, real injuries, real risk of permanent emotional and physical damage. You can trust your partner til you're blue in the face, but one tug too hard, one too-deep bitemark, one whip crack too far to the left.. and that's the end of your sex life forever - and that's just the least significant risk.

To me, doing the S&M thing in real life just doesn't "do it." But the FANTASY of S&M is a ton of fun. So I get to explore the fantasy and live "posthumously" through my character during this or that episode of my character's life. And when it's done, I'm still sitting at my computer screen, safe from any harm, and my hubby is still happily sitting on his chair watching TV, knowing that his wife hasn't caused HIM any harm and that he hasn't caused ME any harm.

I even tried the whole S&M thing with hubby - it was like..ewww. I can't do that with HIM! He's my husband, not my master. I'm just not comfortable with that lifestyle, and jeez he's a freaking Roman Catholic so of course he isn't gonna get into it much either.

SO yeah, I'll roleplay a kinky scene out of my wildest fantasies online, in the confines of a text game, with someone else who might also have similar fantasies or be under similar circumstances.

Once it becomes real, it's no longer fantasy, and it's no longer fun. But as long as it stays in the world of pretend, it's all good.

[Tendarian]

By free thinker he means think like him or your just a brainwashed sheep.

[godShell]

Bestatte, do you interact with your cyber partners on AIM? Do you have them on your buddy list? If you do that, you become their friend, that's a relationship. Then to me, if I were your husband and that was the case, I would think it the same as having phone sex with your male friends. And I wouldn't like it. If it were completely random individuals who you did this with it wouldn't bother me that you have a cybersex fetish. I would like to know the thinking of someone who would be in the husband's place in both of those situations and hear what they say.

[CrystalTears]

Heh, I have people on my buddy list that I have cybered with. I'll even top that. My character's ingame husband and I first started off as cyber buddies then our characters got married. Then we became friends IRL. We spoke even when we didn't play. He spoke of his girlfriend, I spoke of my boyfriend. One time when he was passing through the area he came to visit me to meet me. We all had lunch and had a great time. My fiance knew who he was and didn't care because we are secure and happy with our relationship. He would even say that he was sorry to see that he lived on the west coast because he would be great to hang out with on a regular basis.

I'm sure my man's character has cybersex with his ingame wife. His ingame wife is his best friend IRL. Hell he knew her before he knew me! I don't mind it because we've spoken about it and I trust him just as he trusts me.

It's all about what the couple in the relationship is comfortable with and agreeing to those boundaries and rules. When you step over them, then you have problems.

Cybering is roleplaying. You're taking on the persona of someone else. It's all an act. Any cybering I did in the game when I did it long ago was done as my character. That wasn't ME having the sex, it was my character. She's getting the jollies.

Honesty, being forthcoming and acceptance of each other are the rules we live by and we're damned happy, thankyouverymuch. :D

[Edited on 8/2/2003 by CrystalTears]

[imported_Kranar]

There's a huge difference between actively looking for a sexual desire, and passively doing it.

Passively doing it is completely arbitrary and you have no control over it. So some hot chick walks up infront of you, and duh, yeah you're going to be like "Wow..." or you'll have a dream and fantasize over something. These aren't even big deals.

The problem is when you actively seek these thoughts, that's when you know you're beginning to lack some discipline and integrity when it comes to controlling your instincts, when you start to lack control over your id. It is what you consciously do that makes you who you are, and it's what you consciously do that counts, not what you do in your subconscious. When you start feeling comfortable and taking for granted certain aspects of a relationship, you lose a part of your conscience.

To some that may not be a big deal... but those who it is, cyber-sex is simply one instance where we submit to our subconscious and give up some of our integrity in the process.

[CrystalTears]

I'd much rather my man get his rocks off by cybering for 10 hours straight and then going to bed with me, than him purposely going off to find someone real to have sex with. Big difference.

[imported_Kranar]

<< Im not insecure,religious or think the world is perfect as is. Where is all this anger coming from? >>

It is the most thoughtless argument to arbitrarily call someone insecure. Most people who say it don't even know what it means, but it sounds good to add in there, it lends the argument a sense of credibility where none exists.

The truth is that the word insecurity actually means the level of confidence one has in a position. One is secure when they can stand up for themselves and know where they stand. It doesn't have anything to do with what side you take, but how well you can support that side. How decisive you are.

<< I dunno, I'll stop here because stupid and ignorant people is the #1 thing on my list of what I can't stand. >>

And yet you buy into conspiracy theories that state that the U.S. government was actively involved in the September 11th hijackings. You Neildo, have no business whatsoever stating who is and who isn't stupid or ignorant on this BBS.

[Edited on 8-2-2003 by Kranar]

[Tendarian]

What if the choice was no cyber sex and he still came to bed with you?Happily even.

[imported_Kranar]

And to all of you who say cyber-sex is okay...

Why is having sex with another real life person bad? I mean it's no big deal, he'll have sex with a co-worker in the morning, and then come home to you and still act the way he would normally. Just in the day he sometimes needs a release, and his co-worker is pretty hot, so you can understand what he's going through. You know how it is... some men just can't think straight when all they want is sex. Also when he's on vacation it kills him being all alone, so he wants to hire some prostitutes to relieve himself of his fantasies.

A precise and consistent answer would be most appreciated.

[Edited on 8-2-2003 by Kranar]

[Back]

And to all of you who say cyber-sex is okay...

Why is having sex with another real life person bad? A precise answer would be most appreciated.

[Edited on 8-2-2003 by Kranar]

I think you're basing your opinion of those who feel cyber is alright on the assumption that that is where they get ALL their sexual pleasure from. This may be the case with handicapped individuals, but from what I'm reading, people who cyber are just sexual active people in general. From my own experience, I'm more sexually active in real life, by a long shot. As someone said, in a roleplaying game, its part of my character's lives. And I don't think anyone has said sex with a real person is bad. You do run some risks though like STDs and pregnancy if you are foolish, drunk, stoned or don't give a crap about the consequences.

But this topic isn't about is cybersex good or bad. Its about cheating. I sort of derailed things so lets set it back on track.

As for the cheating thing... I'd have to say it all depends on your trust level with your mate. Different people have different levels of trust. If it would piss off your mate, then you run the risk of them leaving you to your monitor. Pretty simple.

I once dated a chick who wanted to get me off while I cybered. That would just be pointless to me as I prefer real sex over cyber any damn day of the week thank you very much. Other women I've been with would not have approved, and in those cases, I wouldn't.

For me, cyber is nothing more than a temporary distraction much like rereading the good bits of a sexually explicit novel.

[imported_Kranar]

<< And I don't think anyone has said sex with a real person is bad. >>

Wow... so having sex with another person isn't even a bad thing.

When I said another, the word another was meant to refer to someone other than your partner. I can't believe that's not considered a bad thing... it's scary infact, but oh well.

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by Kranar
Why is having sex with another real life person bad?

Because you're inviting possible pregnancy and disease into the equation, which harms everyone.

[Back]

Wow... so having sex with another person isn't even a bad thing.

When I said another, the word another was meant to refer to someone other than your partner. I can't believe that's not considered a bad thing... it's scary infact, but oh well.

Ok, my fault. When I first read your post it was only the two lines I quoted, than came back after my post to see what you really meant. My bad my bad...

Again, its a level of trust. Some people are swingers, some aren't. If your mate may get pissed over it, either don't do it, or dump them and find someone who shares your level of trust.

[godShell]

"Because you're inviting possible pregnancy and disease into the equation, which harms everyone."

Are you suggesting that if pregnancy and disease were not factors, that your mate having sex in real life would be just as okay as having cyber sex?

[imported_Kranar]

<< Because you're inviting possible pregnancy and disease into the equation, which harms everyone. >>

Okay, so you remove the risk of pregnancy and disease... does it become okay?

Is it your position that the only reason having physical sex outside of the marriage, the only reason that my quote should be invalidated, is because of STDs and pregnancy, and that once those are removed my quote becomes true?

[CrystalTears]

For me personally? Yep. For others? That's for them to say and figure out.

Putting others before me, regardless of the activity, would bother me. My ex would have LUNCH without me knowing with his exgirlfriend. And I said to him, if you're going to do that, you better have lunch more times with me, and not this zero times I was getting at the time.

My concern is the relationship and my companionship being more important and above those with others. Pushing me aside to satisfy them is the problem, whether that be a quickie, a dinner, a play or a game of golf (course if my fiance went to go play golf, I'd think he were on drugs simply for that hobby alone :D ).

How do you like me now? :roll:

[Edited on 8/2/2003 by CrystalTears]

[imported_Kranar]

Well then the argument, like usual, becomes redundant.

This entire time I was under the assumption that sex is something so precious, it could only be shared only with your significant other. But granted others are entitled to their own points of view. I do, however, have to give you credit for demonstrating consistency, even if I totally disagree. Consistency, above all, is the most important factor in an argument.

For those who do think that physical sex is something to only be shared and experienced with the one you love... how do you feel about my hypothetical scenario?

[Edited on 8-2-2003 by Kranar]

[CrystalTears]

Yes sex can be a very intimate thing you have only with your significant other. So can a very romantic dinner, even saying I love you. You may have dinner with your coworker and not think anything of it, but I'm sure it would mean a whole lot more if she lit a candle and held your hand and said she loved you. You can watch a movie with your female best friend and think nothing of it, and it would mean something else if she rested her head on your shoulder and kissed your ear.

Almost any activity can be turned into a special and intimate event. Sex, however, does not equal love, and I think that's what people tend to confuse.

[Bestatte]

Originally posted by Kranar
And to all of you who say cyber-sex is okay...

Why is having sex with another real life person bad? I mean it's no big deal, he'll have sex with a co-worker in the morning, and then come home to you and still act the way he would normally. Just in the day he sometimes needs a release, and his co-worker is pretty hot, so you can understand what he's going through. You know how it is... some men just can't think straight when all they want is sex. Also when he's on vacation it kills him being all alone, so he wants to hire some prostitutes to relieve himself of his fantasies.

A precise and consistent answer would be most appreciated.

[Edited on 8-2-2003 by Kranar]

It's bad for me, because it isn't fantasy. It's real. And I have no desire for a real sexual encounter with anyone other than my husband.

That's about as precise as I can make it. It's also consistent with my basic premise, which is: I'm into the fantasy BECAUSE it is fantasy.

I should also note: I generally don't get involved in cybersex at all, when it comes to IMs. I definitely don't get involved in it in chatrooms. I limit it, mostly, to my roleplay in text games (where it's called mudsex, not cybersex), and even then, ONLY if it's appropriate for my *character* to get involved in it. I do not create characters for the express purpose of mudsex, nor do I seek it when I'm playing the game.

[CrystalTears]

As much as I say that I don't have a problem with it, which I don't, I do want to note as well that I don't do the cybering through IMs (I did that a few times and it just didn't do it for me), I don't even go to chat rooms for that. I'm not, actually never really have, actively sought out cybersex. It mostly came (heh.. I said came) in text games that allowed that, behind "closed" doors when it was part of the roleplay. I didn't go in the game and seek out people specifically to cyber. I don't do anything in the open that would bother other people because I do realize that sex is a very private and personal thing for many.

[Neildo]

>>>>And to all of you who say cyber-sex is okay... Why is having sex with another real life person bad? I mean it's no big deal, he'll have sex with a co-worker in the morning, and then come home to you and still act the way he would normally. Just in the day he sometimes needs a release, and his co-worker is pretty hot, so you can understand what he's going through. You know how it is... some men just can't think straight when all they want is sex. Also when he's on vacation it kills him being all alone, so he wants to hire some prostitutes to relieve himself of his fantasies.>>>>>

Actually, there's nothing wrong with having sex with whomever.. if their spouse allows it and doesn't mind. If the spouse has a problem with it, then it's a problem. The applies to darned near everything. If a couple has no problem with their significant other doing whatever, even if it's having sex with others, it's very silly to say what they're doing is wrong all because what they're doing may not be your cup of tea.

However, with that aside, you should know the difference between sex and cybersex. They're varying degrees of it. The lowest degree could be a simple erotic thought, the second could be looking at porn, the third could be cybersex, fourth could be phone sex, and the fifth could be real sex. However, the line isn't split down the middle between what is acceptable and not. Only a couple can choose it.

If one spouse doesn't want the other even thinking erotic thoughts about others, that's their perogative. However, that would show huge insecurity and mistrust and that relationship most likely wouldn't work out. If they draw the line at porn, fine. If they draw the line at cybersex, fine. If they let the other have phone sex but not real sex, fine. And even if they let them go all out having sex with others, that's fine too as it's their own personal rules.

Hell, I honestly don't have a problem with my girlfriend having sex with others. However, the only problem I have is if it ends up taking priority over me. And this can be with ANYTHING. When other things become a priority over me, that's when there's a problem, regardless of what the activity is. I'd never marry a lawyer cause I'd never get to see her. :P That's how most things are in a relationship. The couple ends up letting their spouse do darned near anything, with very little rules, so they're happy.. and also because you later learn that some things just aren't a real big deal as you may have thought. Then of course if someone has a problem with something the other is doing, they talk about it, the other may quit what they're doing or compromise may happen or whatever.. I'd rather not get into how relationships work, lol.

Now you may ask why don't I have a problem with my girlfriend having sex with others? Well what's so wrong about sex? Why is that forbidden? Seriously, why is it? And don't just say "because" and/or "it's always been that way". Sex is just sex. What, should I start getting jealous when she hugs or kisses someone on the cheek next? Lol. People tend to hold sex in such high regards because they figure that's the highest they can go with a person and well, I don't hold sex in that high regards. And don't get me wrong, I love sex, but there's many other things more valuable, fun, and enjoyable I can do that I'd rather have and do than just sex.

The main reason why I don't have a problem with it is because darned near anyone is going to end up doing a little something something behind the others back, intentionally or not, and well, I don't like lying and mistrust. Keeping everything honest is the key to a relationship. Just because I may have no problem with the other having sex with someone else, it doesn't mean I want to see it happen all the time. Heck, I'd rather have it not happen period, but it's not something worth losing a person over.. unless they intentionally do it to hurt ya. I understand situations like that happen. The more a couple can work together, the more successful they will be.

And um, I think I'll just shut up now with all the rambling. Crystaltears stance on all of this is almost word for word how I feel. That and she says it so much better.. and in less words. :P

- N, the exception to every rule

[godShell]

Greg hates sluts.

[Tendarian]

Crystal Tears and Nieldo,

Are these just casual relationships you feel this way or do you feel this way about someone you would or are married to as well? Im actually dumb founded at this.

[Neildo]

>>>>Are these just casual relationships you feel this way or do you feel this way about someone you would or are married to as well? Im actually dumb founded at this.<<<<

I can change my ways real quick. I adapt very well. It would all mainly have to depend on how I am and the girl I'm with is. If I hooked up with a little miss priss, I'm sure I'd adapt to her ways. Like I said, I don't like telling others what to do, but I also like doing what I like to do so it's not like I'd change my ways just because of how the girl is. I'd first try and make it so we can each get our ways, but if the girl is worth it and she's a real little miss priss, then I could probably drop all of the above which was said.

I'm all about having fun.. and the less rules there are, the more options that are available. Everything branches out and you can have tons of various experiences and well, variety is the spice of life, in whatever it may be. And again, when I say less rules, I'm referring to things that are more personal things that don't infringe on the unwilling who don't want to be involved.

Marriage though, I honestly don't care for it. I don't see the point in settling down with one person.. especially since so many people are wrong in choosing their "soul mate" where they end up in divorce. Heck, I live in California so that should explain a lot to you. What's the divorce rate here, like 85%?

But love can exist without marriage. Marriage is just a nice ceremony and a piece of paper at the end. Why can't that happen without the piece of paper? Without the piece of paper, you now toss out all the politics involved. If you ever feel the marriage is no longer working out, you don't have to deal with divorce and all that. You can easily part ways. I love options and love being free, I hate being restricted. So why can't someone live a happy life with someone without marriage? Hell, I know quite a few people who are together and have been together for 10 years yet aren't married. What's so special about it? All it is is something like a high school graduation. And going to a graduation isn't required to get out of high school nor is marriage required to have a happy relationship. (lol, and yep, I didn't bother going to my graduation. :P)

But hey, like I've said before, I tend to be the exception to every rule. I like doing new things, changing ways, and the like. I don't care for tradition. Out with the old and in with the new. If it's something that other people follow just because, then I don't care for it. Unless the person came to their own conclusion as to why they're doing what they're doing, then I'm all for it. But many people do various things just because others do without much thought as to why, and I don't care for that. Heck, I don't even bother to celebrate many holidays like Christmas even. Yeah, it can be fun because it's a celebration, but well, I'm no Christian so any beliefs behind that are meaningless to me. I don't mind other people doing it though, again, I don't tell others what to do and say they're wrong. Holidays like New Years I like because it symbolizes the start of a new year and it's not like it's a holiday symboling a religion/etc that I'm not a part of and don't believe in yet I'm celebrating it anyways just because. Days like Memorial Day I hold high respect to and the like. Eh, enough about all that. See, I ramble too much, lol.

But yeah, what the heck was the question. Oh yeah, sex, marriage, and all that. I talked about the marriage part and back to the sex, I just don't hold it in that high regards. Answer me this, WHY is sex held in such high regards? Just because? Why is it sex and not something else? What's held in the highest regards to me is love, and sex isn't required to make that happen. Sex is fun, it's great, but it's no different than doing something else we enjoy. I love footrubs, should that be off-limits to others giving me other than my girlfriend? I love watching comedies, should my girlfriend be the only one to make me laugh? Why is the limit just on sex? Remember, love is the key. Someone can have sex with someone else yet still love their significant other. However, once they love someone else, in the non-friendly way, the relationship is gone.

So there's a question. While you question us, or me, about sex being not as important to us/me, let me ask you why it's so important to you. How can one value something so high yet another not value it as much? Gee, sounds like everything else in life. You think your vorpal sword of doom is worth 300 mill and I laugh in your face and only put it at 100 mill. And in the real world, gold is wealthy but I don't care for it as it's a gross color. I prefer silver. But hey, some people love gold just because of the status symbol. Is that why sex is so cherished to you because of it's status symbol? Well next time you take a look at the wall street journal, go look up the prices of gold and see how it's value has dramatically dropped from what it once was. ;)

Gotta love how things change, eh? Old-fashioned = obsolete. Do things because that's what you feel and what you believe in, not because someone else told you so. Go by your conclusions of everything you've read, heard, done, experienced, and put them all together. And yes, use your common sense inside of you to not kill people and other stupid stuff. Many laws and ideas where thought to be perfect, but for some odd reason they continue to change as well. Why is that? If you continue to live by other peoples indecisiveness, you're gonna be left all screwed up. So do what YOU believe in, that's the best way to do things. Oh, and that doesn't mean toss aside everything of the past, just in case you may think that's what I mean. Take all the things that work and ignore the ones that don't. Just because something may have been said in the past, it doesn't mean the person is right. You make the deicision for yourself as to whether they were right or not. And if they were, take that advice and add your own personal updated touch to it.

So if you're doing the things you're doing because that's how you feel and that's the conclusion you came to from the things you've learned, then awesome. But if you believe in the things you do "just because" someone else does or someone told you to, then I could care less to know ya. Your values should be just that, YOUR values, not ones someone else told you to have. And yep, that even refers to the ten commandmants.

All the ten commandments are is a list of common sense things that we already know. And no, it's not because it was subconciously put in our minds. It's just that, common sense. Thou shalt not steal. I sure love my computer. If someone were to take my computer, that would not make my feel good. Gee, hmm, I guess I shouldn't do that to others because it would make them feel bad how I would be if it happened to me. Thou shalt not kill. I love the things I do, but if I were dead I couldn't do it. I sure wouldn't want to stop doing the things I'm doing so I guess others wouldn't want the same happening to them either, lol. Dammit, now I'm babbling about the darn ten commandmants, lol. Time to shut up.

- N

[godShell]

Well Mr. N you sound very different. You would not care if your girlfriend spread her legs and let some guy pump into her, whereas I detest that thought, because that is how I am. That's what it makes me feel like, like killing them OJ style. You mentioned footrub, no guys may give my girl a foot rub either. I don't like guys touching what they can't have when it's mine. That may sound objectual and old fashioned but it's the only way for me. :> It is interesting to hear people's ideas who aren't like me, though, that is why I like this thread.

[Bestatte]

Originally posted by godShell
(edited) You mentioned footrub, no guys may give my girl a foot rub either. I don't like guys touching what they can't have when it's mine. That may sound objectual and old fashioned but it's the only way for me. :> It is interesting to hear people's ideas who aren't like me, though, that is why I like this thread.

See, that whole idea is foreign to me. The girl is yours? You don't want men touching -your- girl? I just can't grasp the concept. I'm not my husband's property, and if he -ever- tried to imply that I was, I'd walk out on him without turning back.

That doesn't mean that I'd go off philandering and having sex with strangers just because I wanna. First of all, I don't wanna. So it's a moot point.

But even if I did, I made a promise - not a religious vow, but a personal promise - to my husband, that I wouldn't. Not because I'm honoring some kind of moral code, but rather because we both agreed that's what would work best for our marriage.

But also the whole physical risk factor, but that's another issue entirely.

[godShell]

Yep, she is mine as I am hers. Not property wise, more like pets. That's my cat over there. I'm its master. We are each others. That's my girl, I'm her boy, we are for each other. When I give a footrub or snuggle that is special, I can NOT just do that with any girl. I would have to feel something special for her, and feeling something special and expressing it to someone who isn't my mate is not what I'm about at all. I'm not like a lot of guys, in the sense that if I were at a club and some whore was rubbing on me and even begging to get fucked I would not even doubt my 'Fuck off' attitude. If I were single or not. (I'd never go to a club and let anyone touch me so it doesn't really matter). I idealize romance and monogomy.

[Tendarian]

let me ask you why it's so important to you.

Its not the sex that is important,its the intimacy of the act that is important. Its an act of love and shouldnt be given off to any old woman just cause she is "hot". If watching a movie was as intimate of an act your right,id have a huge problem with my girlfriend doing that. Since it isnt tho its not a problem. For anyone who has ever really been in love the sex is MUCH better cause feelings are involved than just some woman you think is alright.

Maybe the difference is i equate only having sex with people i love and you look at it as being equivalent to foot rubs and watching movies.

One other thing,i think almost all people form their opinions of their own experience as that is what humans do. I dont know many people who just think things just because. Maybe theres a lot of that in CA?

[CrystalTears]

Sex isn't love. Sure you have sex with someone you love, but it's not all inclusive. My God I certainly can't be the only one who's had one night stands!!

I'm engaged (I thought me saying "my fiance" would imply that and these are my current feelings on it). Him and I have discussed this thoroughly, and as the need arises. This is probably why we're a perfect match since we have the same views on the subject. We have a very strong relationship and we're completely devoted to each other.

I will admit that in the beginning of our relationship I would get jealous of some of his female girlfriends because he would spend a lot of time talking with them through IMs and playing GS with them. But those were my own insecurities since the relationship was new. Now I don't mind. I had also come from a marriage where my ex, who also felt just talking in IMs with men was cheating, went off and had real sex with his exgirlfriend. That didn't surprise me because I knew he wasn't completely over her and he would spend a lot of time with her. What did surprise me was that I never knew he was spending time with her at all. He lied to me about where he was going and that pissed me off. We didn't break up because of that though. We broke up because he was a schmuck. :D

As I've said before, the lying and mistrust is what would hurt me, not the activity he was lying about. My fiance has told me several times of the pretty women he works with and has met. I really wouldn't be surprised if one night he couldn't resist and had a quickie, simply because he's mentioned them to me. In that same aspect he said he wouldn't be surprised if I came home and said I had sex with one of my coworkers because he's met them and knows how attractive they are.

Sex is an urge, a craving that the body gets and it needs to be fulfilled. My fiance is my main source for this crave, and vice versa. So if I leave for a week or two and he finds he just can't control himself, I'm supposed to tell him that he has to be without because I'm the only one who can give him that? Sounds a bit selfish. That's like saying he can't eat dinner without me. He'll have to starve while I'm gone. Eat lots with me so that it lasts while I'm away. It's still a body's craving for something.

My fiance spending time with another woman would start upsetting me if he was doing it instead of being with me. If he chose her over me. My exboyfriend did that. I had no problem with him having female friends and he would hang out with them all the time. But the days that we had plans to do something, I expected him to hold himself to those plans, not call me and say he can't go because he's going to Heather's house. Uh uh. That's a no no in my book. I didn't give a crap if they were having sex, hell I assumed they already were. But not on my time!

I'm a sexual person, however I get satiated very easily. I'm content with spending an evening snuggled with my fiance watching movies. I don't need the sex for him to show me how much he loves me. When I have the urge to have sex, he's the one I go to first and always will.

I would be lying if I said that I didn't have those thoughts about one of my coworkers. We have a great friendship, I discuss my relationship, he tells me about his, and we've spoken about sex in general in detail. The curiosity is there. I don't go through with it because he's still young and I'm not sure if he's mature enough to understand that having sex is all it is and wouldn't affect our friendship. And since to him sex does mean something more, it's not a safe road to take with him. He's also sleeping with another girl whom he says has sex with other guys, so that's a road I'm not safe taking because who knows if she has something and has passed it to him. No thanks.

So it was nice to know that I have that option available to me and it won't affect my relationship with my fiance because he would understand it. It makes the relationship that more enticing and rich to me because I'm not held back from doing something I want to do, so long as I prefer them to be with him and I'm careful about my decisions.

It's all about what's comfortable for the couple. The fewer rules you have, the less prone people have to breaking them. It's why children get rebellious because their parents enforce so many rules. Once you lift those rules, there's nothing to break, so the whole fun part of breaking rules to see how far you could get is gone. Same with intimate relationships. Give your partner room to grow and express themselves in their own way that will make you both comfortable. If you have needs that they don't approve of, then you need to move on and find someone who will be content with your lifestyle and vice versa. Forcing someone to live the life you chose for yourself is unfair to that person and yourself.

Goddamnit Niel! See what you made me do?! I'm writing like you now! Gah! :P

[Edited on 8/3/2003 by CrystalTears]

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by godShell
You mentioned footrub, no guys may give my girl a foot rub either.

Guess you would throw them through a four-story window then, eh? :D

[Tendarian]

I just dont see the point of having a relationship if your not comitted to each other. Im not telling people how to live their lives,im giving my opinion on it. If i had that much power i wouldnt be playing gemstone or posting on the internet :) And if i was all powerful i certainly wouldnt make any laws or anything like that.

You dont have to have a religious ceremony for your wedding,i bet in some places you could make it so the male had to obey or not even include that line in your wedding. Dont let semantics keep you from being happy.

[CrystalTears]

And I just don't see what sex has to do with a relationship commitment. Where does it say that sex means commitment? Why does sex have to be only with the one you're engaged/married to?

If it's bothering you because you think it's wrong, fine. But having a relationship is not in the same as having sex. Sex is not a relationship, which is why you have these women who fall over a man they had a one night stand with because they can't separate the two. The man had sex because he felt she was hot and it would feel great. Why did she do it? For the love if they just met?

[Artha]

Why does sex have to be only with the one you're engaged/married to?

It's called fidelity.

[CrystalTears]

How is it infidelity if it is consensual on both sides? If my husband says it's alright to have sex with someone else, how am I being unfaithful?

I just can't see myself throwing a whole relationship away because my husband had sex with someone else for one night. I just can't. Finding someone to be compatible with is hard enough of as it is.


[Edited on 8/3/2003 by CrystalTears]

[Bestatte]

Siren, you don't have to include the "obey" part of the ceremony in your wedding vows. You can make up your own vows and have a non-religious civil ceremony if you want. In fact, you don't even have to have ANY ceremony to be legally married. You just have to get a bloodtest (in most states but not all) and sign a document making the bond official.

Personally I think the non-ceremony thing is great for people who are -only- getting hitched for financial purposes - such as having a child together and wanting to ensure that the father will retain legal guardianship if the mother dies..

and all the stuff about health insurance with employers and beneficiary and will stuff.

But I enjoyed my wedding ceremony, which was a civil ceremony that we had altered to mention "promise" rather than "vow" and "cherish" rather than "obey." We weren't able to have a religious ceremony even if we wanted to, since he's Catholic and I'm Jewish and neither of us would sign any document to the others' church promising that our children would be brought up in their faith.

We had such a great time at our first wedding, that we had another ceremony a couple of years ago in Vegas. He wore a medieval Lord's costume, I wore a white velvet goth gown that I added burgundy ribbons to, even Mom and Dad and my sister and his parents were there and mom came dressed as Merlina the Wizardess <giggle>.

The point of the ceremony is to reinforce the fact that a couple loves each other and plans to grow old together. It is not for the purpose of claiming the other as one's own property or possession.

[Neildo]

>>>>Its not the sex that is important,its the intimacy of the act that is important. Its an act of love and shouldnt be given off to any old woman just cause she is "hot". If watching a movie was as intimate of an act your right,id have a huge problem with my girlfriend doing that. Since it isnt tho its not a problem. For anyone who has ever really been in love the sex is MUCH better cause feelings are involved than just some woman you think is alright.<<<<

Exactly. It's the intimacy and love.. however, sex doesn't automatically mean that's happening. If I hug someone or give them a kiss on the cheek, it doesn't mean I love them, it can be a simple greeting. Sex isn't always "making love". If you're horny and want a little quickie before work, that's just what it is, a quickie. You're making the assumption that many things are automatically intimate regardless of who it's with. But yes, the intimacy is important just as I said in my last post that love is what is most important for me.

Where we differ is that I know the difference between what is and isn't intimacy/love. While something may be commonly connected to it, it isn't an automatic thing each and every time. So while I wouldn't mind my spouse having sex with someone, I would NOT want her to make love (and for the other person, no that doesn't mean some random guy all of a sudden screwing her, heh. while I'm highly open, I do have limitations on those things). While I wouldn't mind her having friendships with guys, I would NOT want her to fall in love with them, etc.

>>>>I just dont see the point of having a relationship if your not comitted to each other.<<<<

That's because you're making the various rules of what commitment is to other people. Commitment is like you said earlier, live your life with your spouse, be honest with your spouse and don't do anything behind their back. That's it, plain and simple. Anything else is the technicalities of the relationship of which THEY make the rules. It can be anything from "don't have sex with anyone else but me", to "don't stay out all night with your friends", to "don't work 20 hours a day where I can't spend time with you", to whatever.

Commitment isn't the rules in which are made, it's following the rules that are made. So when someone goes against a rule that is made, that's not being commited. But if something isn't a rule and someone does it, regardless of what it is and how distasteful it may be to YOU, that's not being uncommited. Someone may not mind their wife getting footrubs from others but someone else may. I may not like my girl wearing polka dots whereas you don't mind. Whatever it is, that's each couples perogative and nobody has the right to tell others what they should and shouldn't do.. within reason, of course.

>>>>Sex is not a relationship, which is why you have these women who fall over a man they had a one night stand with because they can't separate the two. The man had sex because he felt she was hot and it would feel great. Why did she do it? For the love if they just met?<<<<

Men use love to get sex. Women use sex to get love. Heh, heh, heh..

>>>>How is it infidelity if it is consensual on both sides? If my husband says it's alright to have sex with someone else, how am I being unfaithful?<<<<

Yep, it's not fidelity because all are consenting. If they aren't then yes, it is. This goes back to religious beliefs on why it is. You know the ten commandments? It sure as heck doesn't specify much. Don't covet thy neighbors wife. Well, even if the wife and husband wants you to or there's no problem with it? Thou shalt not kill? Haha, let me point to all the deaths from wars, heck even excluding RELIGIOUS ones, or due to protecting ones self. If a man is holding your family hostage, is pointing a gun at you and you have a gun too, what, you can't shoot him first all because of the "thou shalt not kill" rule?

All those religious rules are basic guidelines to help nudge you on your way but you can't follow them exact as it's too black and white. It's up to use to use those baselines and extrapolate it based on our personal feelings/beliefs/experiences and such.

So again, whatever your feelings may be in regards to whatever it may be, even things not in this thread, just question yourself as to why you're doing/believing in the things you are. Is it because you came up with the conclusion from your experiences and made the decision yourself or is it due to tradition and what others have told you to do without a thought as to why? Just because something is said and done, even with the masses, it doesn't mean it's the correct way to do it. And heck, just look at some of the crazy laws and beliefs of the US in the past 10, 20, 50, 100 years if you want an example.

Heh, and since we're talking about sex, I'll use the funny as hell one of what, the 50's or so? Not being able to sleep in the same bed as your spouse. Now that's funky. Didn't you have a problem with that law at some inn you went to or something like that, Roberta? They were still enforcing outdated laws? I recall you talking about it once, but I forget the details, heh.

- N

[Neildo]

>>>>We had such a great time at our first wedding, that we had another ceremony a couple of years ago in Vegas. He wore a medieval Lord's costume, I wore a white velvet goth gown that I added burgundy ribbons to, even Mom and Dad and my sister and his parents were there and mom came dressed as Merlina the Wizardess <giggle>. <<<<

Damn, sorry again for missing that. :(

- N

[Chyrain]

you know if people worried less about what other consenting adults do, the world would be a lot better place.

[Neildo]

Consenting adults, heh. Starting to make them feel like children. :P

- N

[Edaarin]

Heh, I just read through this entire thread, and all I can say is, good lord.

Cybering has never crossed my mind since my parents first signed up for AOL when it went unlimited. Of course, it probably helps that I was 12 at the time...

[Edited on 8-4-2003 by Edaarin]

[Tendarian]

Let me say again i dont go around to peoples houses judging their relationship. Someone other than me brought up this topic for us to discuss so i said what my opinion was. Whatever people do that doesnt effect me or hurt the innocent i couldnt care less about in the real world. Have twenty husbands or wives for all i care.

PS All my opinions are thought out and made from experience and enviroment. I dont just think things because,nor do i believe anyone does.

[imported_Kranar]

Yeah Tendarian, it's pretty pathetic when a topic is made to discuss these issues, and then when they're discussed people cower behind a curtain and scream "DON'T TELL ME HOW TO LIVE MY LIFE YOU NAZI!"

I'm being very serious with that statement, some people are either just too defensive or too scared to be able to discuss these issues in an honest manner.

We all have our opinions on the matter. Good to put them out for discussion, but apparantly no one is changing their minds.

My opinion has always been let people do what they want in game as long as it is not in public and I don't have to see them. Believe me, getting a log of Klaive was gross enough.

- Arkans

[CrystalTears]

Don't know who you mean.. okay I may know who you mean.. but I hope nothing I said came across that way. I started this thread to see how other people felt about the issue. It wasn't to air out my life, it just turned out that I shared more information so that people see another perspective on this type of thing. I never felt anyone was telling me how to lead my life or anything though.

And I personally didn't want or intend to change anyone's mind either. If anything I said made at least one person say, 'I hadn't thought of it that way", then it was a bonus. :D

[Edited on 8/4/2003 by CrystalTears]

[imported_Kranar]

You know CrystalTears the last person I was referring to was you.

Perhaps I should post the most recent example of the atittude I was responding to:

"you know if people worried less about what other consenting adults do, the world would be a lot better place." - Chyrain

[Neildo]

I'm not being defensive or anything, I'm being completely honest as you ask. Heck I'm calm as I type everything. I just have a bad habit of being a bit aggressive in my posting as I tend to debate a lot. Heh, sorry about that.

- N

I can see why someone would hide behind the "STOP TELLING ME HOW TO LIVE U NAZI!!!11" bit.

I mean, the choices they make did come under attack. It is only reasonable to assume that they would be defensive about their choices, expecially if they think that nothing is wrong with said choices.

Personally, I am in the camp of letting people do what they want. As long as I do not have to watch two people going at it in public, who cares really? It doesn't affect anyone at all.

I mean, does it really bother anyone that John and Jane are having cyber sex in a latched room? I'd hope not, they are not involving anyone else and in no way does it affect said person.

While a few people have been overly defensive of their opinion, one must understand it is a choice that should be make. Whether they should be ashamed or the act is "dirty" is completely to a person's upbringing and set of beliefs really.

I don't think anyone here can judge what behvior in private is acceptable or not though. Just let people do what they want as long as they are of legal age to do said deed. If you do not enjoy such an activity then simply do not engage in it.

As for cybersex and cheating? It all depends. If someone begins to neglect a current real life sexual partner in the form of cybersex, then it would be safe to assume that it could be "cheating", just not in the common conotation of the word.

As long as both parties know that one in engaging in cybersex for whatever the reason may be, then fine. Nothing is wrong with that. If one person DOES disagree with it, well, that is wrong to one party at least.

- Arkans

[Kurili]

Just let people do what they want as long as they are of legal age to do said deed


And that brings up another question about Sex in GS. How do you always KNOW the other person is of legal age? I envision some parent of a 13yr old sneaking a peek over their shoulder at the wrong time and ...well, not being happy.

[CrystalTears]

Well in order to have an account the account holder needs to be at least 18 years of age. If the parents opened up the account for them, they should be the ones to police the child's behavior, not everyone else.

Just don't get me started on how this is supposed to be a family game. :rolleyes:

[Edited on 8/4/2003 by CrystalTears]

[imported_Kranar]

<< I can see why someone would hide behind the "STOP TELLING ME HOW TO LIVE U NAZI!!!11" bit. >>

Simple solution to that... don't read a topic where people will be actively engaging ideas and opinions on cyber-sex. If someone is too scared to discuss, don't discuss.

It's not the discussion as much as saying that people should feel ashamed. That is why people react so defensively to the topic.

About the age? Well, the best policy is to obviously not have cybersex lest you are willing to take the risk.

- Arkans

[Kurili]

Just don't get me started on how this is supposed to be a family game.


Go on, get started. I for one, dont see it as a 'Family Game', but that's just me. And I dont see the parents who got the account policing any of their little darling's other behaviour. But I DO get the idea these same absent parents would scream for blood if the little darling was caught in a compromising position.

[StrayRogue]

Theres too sides to this, a general cyber sex side, and a Gemstone Cyber Sex side.

Generally, I'd consider cybering or talking dirty with someone else other than your partner fine, UNLESS you are gaining some form of sexual or pleasurable stimulae from it. Then it may as well just be fucking.

In Gemstone; it all comes down to differentiating between yourself and your character. If you can, great, fine have a million and one GS relationships. As long as it stays in game. And it can. I know it can. I didn't do any of the Klaive-esque shit, I left that to peoples imaginations.

Either way, I 50/50 on the whole open relationship thing. I know I couldn't do it, but I respect and admire your honesty and open mindedness Crystal Tears. Men, are genetically coded to seek out fertile women to spread their seed and copulate with. Its part of the survival instinct, so it is rather naive to think we should limit ourselves to just one sexual partner. Our bodies crave more. Women seldom do not understand this, just as men will always say women don't understand.

It is purely social conditioning that teaches us that "Cheating" is wrong. Look at medevil Japan. Lords of houses would have a wife, and several concubines living in the same place. Some still do. Its all a manner of perspective. Romance and the ideal of a bliss-full couple is possible. Its totally un-natural in essence, but still possible.

[CrystalTears]

Don't get me wrong though. It's not THAT open since I would like to know about it and that he share this stuff with me. Not sure if I would be keen about someone who has sex with someone different every week, but he is a safe person by nature so I trust him not to do anything foolish or too spontaneous that could potentiallly hurt us both.

Heh, if my mother ever knew that I felt this way, she'd keel over and die. She would never understand my openness, and quite frankly, I have no idea how I turned out this way. My family is very religious and the thought of sharing their partner, even so much as look at another person of the opposite sex, is unheard of. Well.. that's probably how I turned out this way. I was a little rebellious as a child. She still hates my tattoo.

Once my mother got jealous with my stepfather because he wanted to read the magazine that had Angelina Jolie on the cover in the bathroom, after I said she had great lips. She just gawked at me.

Don't know what she's gawking about. She DOES have great lips. :D

[Edited on 8/4/2003 by CrystalTears]

[Chyrain]

Originally posted by Kranar
You know CrystalTears the last person I was referring to was you.

Perhaps I should post the most recent example of the atittude I was responding to:

"you know if people worried less about what other consenting adults do, the world would be a lot better place." - Chyrain

You think I'm scared to discuss the topic of cybersex and whether or not its within the realms of fidelity?

One, you're wrong and two - I'm not afraid to discuss anything.

It's absolutely no one's business to even make a comment about whether or not it's considered cheating in anyone's relationship unless it's their very own. This world is very big and very diverse and there are a lot of relationships that work without traditional boundaries tying them down and most of what I read in this thread is judgemental and ignorant garbage.

Especially your comment about my attitude.

[imported_Kranar]

<< This world is very big and very diverse and there are a lot of relationships that work without traditional boundaries tying them down and most of what I read in this thread is judgemental and ignorant garbage.

Especially your comment about my attitude. >>

It's judgemental, of course it's judgemental. All moral issues are judgemental whether you think doing the action in question is a good thing or a bad thing. Whether you judge something to be good or bad, you're making a judgement and it's something humans are required to do to better their lives. I'm glad you're capable of realizing the obvious.

<< It's absolutely no one's business to even make a comment about whether or not it's considered cheating in anyone's relationship unless it's their very own. >>

That's exactly the type of fear I'm talking about. When one is confident they don't take offense to an issue, they can stand up for themselves and explain themselves in a honest manner, when one is ashamed to discuss an issue they try and hide it. This thread is explicitely for those who aren't ashamed of their actions and who can stand up for themselves and say "Hey, there's nothing wrong with what I'm doing." There are those who are critics of cybersex and those who think it can be a healthy release... if you're ashamed or whatnot to discuss the issue because it's a very touch touch thing for you, then that's fine. But for those who aren't, we're trying to understand one another and debate and you're free to step aside anytime you feel too uncomfortable.

It would be different if I forced this topic onto your lap, or shoved it in your face... but I didn't. You made the choice to read this, and so don't go running home yelling because you may or may not like what you read.

[Edited on 8-5-2003 by Kranar]

[CrystalTears]

There's a difference between someone coming into a conversation and making judgements about something that has nothing to do with the topic. Then you can tell them to mind their own business. But when the thread is specifically about wanting to know the varrying opinions about a certain subject, then coming in here and saying that doesn't make any sense. What's the point of a debate if you're going to come in and say, "Who cares what you think, let them do what they want." It contradicts the whole point of having a discussion if you don't want to participate for whatever reason.

[Parkbandit]

Sometimes... when I am playing my thief... and he pulls out a diamond from someone's pouch...

I feel movement.

[CrystalTears]

And here comes Parkbandit out of left field! :D

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
And here comes Parkbandit out of left field! :D

heh.. I just thought this topic could use a little levity :)

Oh, and I used to touch myself to Elanthian Siren's old Avatar.

[Solkern]

If i caught my girlfriend cybering, theres a few thing wrong
1. I'd probally shoot myself if my girl had to retort to cybering with someone
2. I must be pretty pathetic, in order to have my girlfriend cyberng with someone instead of getting the real thing from me.
3. I believe Cybering is quite pathetic, why not go out and get the real damn thing, I promise you its alot better, satisfying, and more enjoyable
4. Or they actually enjoy it, which would freak me out.

[Edited on 8-5-2003 by Solkern]

[Bobmuhthol]

Your girlfriend is ugly.

[Solkern]

You dont even know who my g/f is oh, and try to grow up ;)

[Edited on 8-5-2003 by Solkern]

[Chyrain]

Originally posted by Kranar
It would be different if I forced this topic onto your lap, or shoved it in your face... but I didn't. You made the choice to read this, and so don't go running home yelling because you may or may not like what you read.

[Edited on 8-5-2003 by Kranar]

You make the assumption AGAIN that I wouldn't discuss cybersex because I'm embarrassed or whatnot.

Honey, if you knew how far that is from the truth, you'd blush. Nothing sexual bothers me. What bothers me is hearing things about other people's sexual lives and having them called sad or pathetic (or alluding to other such things) because they choose to partake in an activity with another consenting adult.

Your logic says that I could post a topic about which way all homosexuals should be murdered just for the sake of discussion, and it still doesn't make it right..and those that speak out against said topic aren't "embarrassed" they're disgusted and speak out against judgement. And if they don't like it, they can sit in their chairs and keep their pretty little embarrassed mouths shut because they weren't forced tor ead.

BIG DIFFERENCE.

[Tendarian]

Im glad i live in a free country where im free to express my opinions.

One other question i have for the people who have open relationships is this. Would you be happy if you had a daughter if her marriage was like yours? I assume yes, i am curious to know though.

[imported_Kranar]

<< Your logic says that I could post a topic about which way all homosexuals should be murdered just for the sake of discussion, and it still doesn't make it right..and those that speak out against said topic aren't "embarrassed" they're disgusted and speak out against judgement. And if they don't like it, they can sit in their chairs and keep their pretty little embarrassed mouths shut because they weren't forced tor ead. >>

You have three choices:

1) You pick the side that consenting adults are free to discuss or engage in any activity amongst each other.

2) You pick the side that certain activities and discussions, even amongst consenting adults, are immoral and individuals should reflect on them before deciding to engage.

3) You ignore the topic completely.

Your last post totally contradicts whatever position you were trying to take.

Your initial post in this thread was indicative of choice #1, that consenting adults should be free to discuss or engage in anything they so choose and it's no one elses business. You went so far to state that the world would be a better place if that happened. We'll guess what? We're consenting adults and we're discussing a controversial issue presented to us by CrystalTears. You consented to the discussion when you clicked on the link entitled "Cyber-sex=Cheating?" and then scrolled through 4 pages worth of posts before responding.

Now you've decided to totally contradict yourself and state that there are topics that consenting adults should not discuss. The one you mention is about murdering homosexuals or whatever it is you said. This is indicative of my position, choice #2. Certain discussions/activities, even amongst consenting adults are immoral. I believe actual cyber-sex with someone other than your partner when in a comitted relationship is one such immoral instance.

Choice #3 is for those who either have no interest in the topic, or are uncomfortable about it.

Pick one of those choices and stick to it.

[Edited on 8-6-2003 by Kranar]

[imported_Kranar]

The discussion on how homosexuals should be murdered is immoral because of its hateful nature. The discussion is inherently bad because it seeks a justification to murder, and murder is itself immoral.

Cyber-sex I feel is also immoral, not as immoral as the former discussion, but still immoral. The reasons have to do with two beliefs. One is that humans should exersize a certain level of discipline and maturity over their basic instincts. The second is that sex is not an object that one should throw around lightly. Sex, like most good things in life, should be reserved for when it counts the most, reserved for when it's most valuable. When sex is thrown around to such an extreme that the internet is being used as a medium to engage in it, then I believe one has wasted it, and has turned sex from being something precious, to just a thing one does... like eating or breathing. Just a meaningless, mechanical need.

Therefore my conclusion is that one should not take sex for granted.

[Edited on 8-6-2003 by Kranar]

[Neildo]

>>>>One other question i have for the people who have open relationships is this. Would you be happy if you had a daughter if her marriage was like yours? I assume yes, i am curious to know though.<<<<

I wouldn't mind. Why not? Because if I did mind, it would mean I felt everything I did was wrong which I don't feel is so. It'd be a bit hypocritical.

Now does that mean I'd like her to do it at the age of 10, 14, 18+? Nope. Only when she's resposible enough for that type of relationship.. which could be those ages but most likely not. Even if she were 30 yet wasn't mature, I wouldn't want her to do it. It doesn't matter what age you are, just because you may be a legal adult, it doesn't mean you have the mental wellness and maturity to do certain things. And on the flipside, even if you may not be a legal adult, it doesn't mean you're not mature.

I've had my current beliefs when I was in my late teens but was still sort of insecure about it, not going through with it and all, just pondering it. A couple years later around 20 I started doing what I felt and got better but there was still a few things I was uncomfortable with. And now, at 24, I'm totally comfortable with it. Have been for the past 2 years or so without any worries. I'm open to darned near anything. I always say don't knock it till ya try it. :P

But yeah, I wouldn't mind so long as she was mature enough to handle what goes on. And hey, it's not like she'd follow in my footsteps or anything. She'd be free to go whichever route she chose so she could also wind up being more traditional and I have no problem with that. Free will, baby, yeah.

- N

[Ravenstorm]

I've got to strongly disagree with you there, Kranar. But then, I usually disagree with most religious-based, moralistic, holier than thou view points.


Humans should exercise a certain level of discipline and maturity over their basic instincts.

Denial is a virtue, eh? Sorry but no. And aside from rejecting that whole premise, TS (tinytsex - a Mu* term) can provide quite a benefit to someone. It allows them to explore, totally free from danger, pregnancy, and disease, avenues of sexuality they might be curious about. While it is not, of course, the 'real thing' it will allow them to develop a sense of whether or not it is somehtign they wish to pursue in they real life situation.

Further, as most therapists will (so I've heard) agree, fantasy is a very good and healthy thing for a human to have. Cybering is little more than masturbating to porn. And that makes the assumption that any masturbating is happening, something which is far from guaranteed.


Sex, like most good things in life, should be reserved for when it counts the most, reserved for when it's most valuable. ... to just a thing one does... like eating or breathing. Just a meaningless, mechanical need.

When did sex become holy? Sex is a mechnical need. And eating can be quite enjoyable too. Combine the two... Umm, back on track. Everything alive has sex in some form or other. It is not a sacrament. While it can be something exquisitely meaningful and special between two people, it can also be more than that.

Sex can be a furthering of intimacy between two (or more) people involved in a serious relationship but so can just talking to each other and listening. In fact, many people will say that listening to each other builds a stronger bond than sex. Sex is... sex. Period. It's what you make of it. In and of itself it can be a fun, pleasurable, sweaty and athletic mechanical need.

So people should cyber all they want. Let them explore what turns them on and what makes them twitch with disgust. It certainly isn't harmful unless it becomes an addiction - which is the same as everything else. It's generally just as safe and even more beneficial as any other internet activity. Just make sure that if you're in a relationship that you define what is an isn't allowed. Of course, that should apply to everything from threesomes to balancing the checkbook.

And then, if you discover you enjoy having someone dress up in a pirate's costume and bind your wrists with a silk sash, you can then talk to your partner about building a wardrobe. he or she might love the idea.

Raven

[imported_Kranar]

<< Denial is a virtue, eh? >>

Discipline is a virtue.

<< Everything alive has sex in some form or other. >>

You want to compare humans to other living things now? So now whatever other living things go off and do, humans should do as well?

No thanks.

<< It is not a sacrament. While it can be something exquisitely meaningful and special between two people, it can also be more than that. >>

It may be more than that... the problem is when it becomes less than that, when it just becomes mechanical. You know... something that's cheap and casual. Sex here, sex there, no biggy.

<< It's generally just as safe and even more beneficial as any other internet activity. >>

The internet is vast communication tool that has brought the world closer together. The amount of knowledge available on it far exceeds any other medium in the history of humankind. If you think internet-sex is more beneficial than any other internet activity, then I'm afraid you're not using the internet to anything near its fullest potential.

[CrystalTears]

Hey, Raven said that nice. He pretty much summed up everything I said in one very well said post.

So what you're saying is that you would never have sex with someone you met or a friend because you thought it would be wrong? You would never even dream of a one night stand? By the way, before AIDS dropped the bomb on us, sex was one big orgy. People would have sex with everyone and anyone because it feels good. Like Raven said, I don't remember when sex became this holy, sacred thing only that should only be done by people who are married. This is the 21st century right, not the 40's?

"Our difference from animals is our ability to accessorize." :D

[Edited on 8/6/2003 by CrystalTears]

[longshot]

With regards to sex, I cannot even begin to tell you the benefits of living in a non-Christian country.

I've seen some pretty unreal stuff. I think cybersex would be the least of anyone's worries.

[Parkbandit]

I think Kranar simply needs to get laid. He would be much more relaxed.

[imported_Kranar]

<< I think Kranar simply needs to get laid. He would be much more relaxed. >>

I thought you said you were done with the cheapshots.

[imported_Kranar]

<< So what you're saying is that you would never have sex with someone you met or a friend because you thought it would be wrong? You would never even dream of a one night stand? >>

It's exactly what I'm saying.

[Scott]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
I think Kranar simply needs to get laid. He would be much more relaxed.

Who needs to get laid when you can play Gemstone and have cybersex! :rolleyes:

[Chyrain]

I just realized that I probably shouldn't have posted that picture because Kranar probably believes that nudity is immoral as well. We will all go straight to hell for seeing a grown man's asscheek.

On the subject of whether or not I'd like my kids to partake in an open relationship - it's not really my decision to make.

The only thing you can do is answer their questions openly and honestly. Give them the real information, not some made up "in a book written 2000 years ago it said..." story and let them decide for themselves. Open relationships aren't for everybody. Jealousy is a hard thing to overcome and I definitely respect anyone who needs monogamy in their lives. I also respect everyone who needs something different. No one on this planet is the same. Everyone's needs are different. And no matter what my kids decide to do as adults -- as long as they are safe about it -- I'm okay with it.

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by Tendarian
One other question i have for the people who have open relationships is this. Would you be happy if you had a daughter if her marriage was like yours? I assume yes, i am curious to know though.

If she was mature enough and was an adult about sex, fully knowing the causes and effects of it, including possible pregnancy and disease, then that is her decision to live her life her way.

My fiance and I have already discussed this and we will be sure to explain sex to her, the repercussions of having sex, not just the physical aspects but emotional too, and encourage her to at least wait until she's of adult age. Should she decide to try and be promiscuous before then, then she can't say we didn't tell her and try to warn her.

And I would like to ask in return, why did you only ask about my daughter? Are you saying that it's alright for the son to behave any way he wants when it comes to sex? Why the double standard?

[Tendarian]

No i just figured since you were female your daughter would be the one to ask about. I should have asked Niel about his son. It seemed the closer comparison.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Kranar
<< I think Kranar simply needs to get laid. He would be much more relaxed. >>

I thought you said you were done with the cheapshots.

My posts are mostly humor in nature. Levity can break the tension and make people laugh.

This wasn't a cheapshot.. as I don't actually know your sexual nature or frequency... this was simply something funny I posted. Nothing more.

Because one has no sense of humor does not make that person immune to me posting something funny. :)

[Parkbandit]

And Kranar..

One night flings can be quite fun for both. If you have 2 consenting adults.. what is the problem?

[CrystalTears]

Because it's obviously not something he likes (one night stands, that is) regardless of whether it's consentual or not.

Not everyone likes the same thing, I just don't understand the criticisms like calling it pathetic. I could really do without that. I think chocolate is a rather sacred and decadent treat and should only be eaten as a bonbon, does that mean I can go around and tell people that eat it as a chocolate bar or pudding that they're pathetic? That's their choice/preference, so who am I to call them names?

It's all in the presentation baby. :D

[Edited on 8/6/2003 by CrystalTears]

[imported_Kranar]

<< My posts are mostly humor in nature. Levity can break the tension and make people laugh. >>

sarcasm
Geez... your joke was so funny, I mean I NEVER heard that one before, especially not on this BBS.
/sarcasm

How cliché.

[Tendarian]

But forcing someone to eat chocolate aint a horrible crime on par with murder,forcing someone to have sex is. Thats why i dont really like the comparisons of sex is like eating its a need. Sex is a special thing no matter how we try to say it isnt.

[CrystalTears]

Forcing? How did forced sex come into this conversation?! Besides if someone forces me to eat a chocolate bar to the point of beating me to do it, it may not be rape but it sure is assault and that's a crime as well.

No one needs sex (okay maybe I do) but it sure is something many people crave, just like eating. Some days you can go without, some days you can.

You don't need chocolate either but it sure is yummy when you get your hands on it. :D

[Edited on 8/6/2003 by CrystalTears]

[Chyrain]

Originally posted by Kranar

How cliché.

sarcasm
man, calling someone's joke 'cliché' is way more cliché then anything else ever in the whole wide world.
/sarcasm

[Tendarian]

Id rather be assaulted than raped. Anyway that was my lame attempt at showing most of the laws view sex as more important than eating or watching movies.

[imported_Kranar]

<< sarcasm
man, calling someone's joke 'cliché' is way more cliché then anything else ever in the whole wide world.
/sarcasm >>

You do know what sarcasm is right? May want to edit your post.

Oh and... a woman calling a man's response to a cliché as being itself cliché is the most cliché statement than anything else in the entire universe.

So there!

[Edited on 8-6-2003 by Kranar]

[CrystalTears]

I really didn't want to drag legal aspects of sex into this conversation because that'll just get ugly. The fact that the government is trying to tell people what they can or cannot do in the privacy of their own home is.. excuse my language.. bullshit, IMO, and that's all I care to state about that.

[Tendarian]

Hey! As long as your talking about concenting people i actually agree with you. There should be no laws against sodomy and the like.