From someone who doesn't play shattered...

[joehollywood]

Just a question about all the griefing/mechanics abuse issues.

Wouldn't the problem be solved by the GM's making it impossible to go invisible if you had death sting?

[Showal]

Just a question about all the griefing/mechanics abuse issues.

Wouldn't the problem be solved by the GM's making it impossible to go invisible if you had death sting?

No.

[joehollywood]

I love angry neg rep comments from people who don't have the balls to sign their name at least.

As for the sting/invisibility issue. People always seem to say their problem isn't the griefing, but the lack of being able to defense it.

That characters coming out of invisibility is the problem due to the mechanics of invisibility.

If "sting"ed characters couldn't go invisible then there is a deterrence other than gaining exp to keep from getting chain killed 50 times in a night.

Seemed a pretty simple solution if you can get the GM's to do it, but if folks would rather bitch and moan about things being too tough.

This is the internet, you can do that too!

[Asha]

I wish I could defense it!

[Fatsix]

Then you have GM's like Itzel removing sting, totally undermining any progress. The GMs would have to ruin the game for everyone else to inhibit one person from being a douchbag. Then said douchebag will just find another way to circumvent the limitations, or just sleep with Itzel, seems like shes handing out favors for favors.

Maybe have 109 be able to be cast on others and stacked, and work like invisibility detection goggles. Rather than it functioning as a spell cast in the room like 402, it would just show them as invisible when you walked in.

In the end Sluntty still wins. He's proven how flawed pvp in this game is, which has been said since day 1. Having GM's modify game structure to block him, just makes it worse.

[ShatteredCasis]

I think it's just as reasonable to do this, than 90% of the other shit that's been proposed.
I'd rather see invisibility removed from shattered before seeing any attack spells nerfed. It's BS that invisibility protects from both physical discovery AND magical discovery. Removing the inability to prep a spell from invisibility would also be just as affective I think.

[LMingrone]

They should ban tables/houses/etc then. Nerfing invis isn't going to help anything. Going invisible is just the easiest way. There's plenty of other ways to grief, which is the only thing grifers are trying to do. They're doing it to make people cry.

[Fatsix]

Removing the inability to prep a spell from invisibility would also be just as affective I think.

Attack spell yes, I agree. Like trying to deposit coins block.... You must unhide first... All the invisibility does it now allow him to be found or attacked.

But still tho, why ruin everything because of one person? He's just a copycat of House/Someone.

Vote Kick!

[Tea & Strumpets]

Then you have GM's like Itzel removing sting, totally undermining any progress. The GMs would have to ruin the game for everyone else to inhibit one person from being a douchbag. Then said douchebag will just find another way to circumvent the limitations, or just sleep with Itzel, seems like shes handing out favors for favors.

Maybe have 109 be able to be cast on others and stacked, and work like invisibility detection goggles. Rather than it functioning as a spell cast in the room like 402, it would just show them as invisible when you walked in.

In the end Sluntty still wins. He's proven how flawed pvp in this game is, which has been said since day 1. Having GM's modify game structure to block him, just makes it worse.

Gemstone is a roleplaying game, not a CvC game. That is why there is zero effort put into balancing CvC---or at least that's what I've read on the Simu boards as long as I've played.

[LMingrone]

Does everyone just want Smu to release their code and give up? Because then we could all set up our own little servers and set the rules we each want. ADVENTURERS: 1.

People asked for Shattered and now they want another instance that fits their style.

[Kramble]

I don't think I've heard this comment before from someone that doesn't play Shattered. Thank you for a fresh take on the topic.



People asked for Shattered and now they want another instance that fits their style.

[Asha]

What a load of fuck.

[Nostradamus]

Does everyone just want Smu to release their code and give up? Because then we could all set up our own little servers and set the rules we each want. ADVENTURERS: 1.

People asked for Shattered and now they want another instance that fits their style.

The style of the game is NOT what people are bitching about. Nor is people being killed what we are bitching about.

It is a flawed and bugged justice system for an instance of shattered. So basically all we asked for is to remove the option of paying a fine. To remove the fun of killing in town and to punish the people who do it,

We want PvP, we want the crazy alter's and all the fun shit that comes with shattered. But we also want to be able to rest with our scripts when hunting.

And you can't do that in town at a supernode to maximize your learning if someone is able to open impode, meteor and go naked an choose fine and not have any consequence for doing it. Cause you only lose whats in the box. If nothing is in the box guess what. YOU LOSE NOTHING.

[Deathravin]

I'm not sure why Simu didn't treat Shattered as a proving grounds. They should have assigned people specifically to fix the bugs and exploits that people in a free environment are sure to find.

Use the server to make the game police itself more to leave GMs and GHs free to do fun stuff like create new content.

[Alorn15]

It's a bug.

It's a bug in Prime too, but the intervention of GMs in PvP decreases the likelihood that it will be exploited to almost 0. It's been acknowledged that this was not a scenario considered when the system was designed.

People seem to think that 'no gm support in shattered' translates into 'no bug fixes'. I'd like to think a user can expect bug fixes in a pay-to-play game.

[LMingrone]

Problem is though, that no matter what the GMs change, someone will find something they don't like. Shattered is what people were asking for. It's a playground like it was meant to be. Now everyone wants it policed like prime.

When Shattered came out, I thought it'd be cool to have towns run by PC gangs, mafia type stuff. I thought It'd be like it was back-in-the-day when there was sense of community. It was easy to understand, and figure out pretty quickly, that it was just going to turn into what it is. RP is dead. Trolling and flames are what gets people off it seems.

[Tea & Strumpets]

.

People seem to think that 'no gm support in shattered' translates into 'no bug fixes'. I'd like to think a user can expect bug fixes in a pay-to-play game.

Someone doesn't understand the term "no gm support in shattered" very well. And just because you call something a "bug", doesn't make it so. If I may quote a GM I once spoke to, "working as intended".

But seriously though, what exactly is the "bug" that you are crying about? (You see how I threw "crying" in there to be a dick?)

[LMingrone]

Someone really hates this thread. Get away from this thread!

01-06-2011 03:29 PM Fuck yourself...go do it.

[Nostradamus]

Someone doesn't understand the term "no gm support in shattered" very well. And just because you call something a "bug", doesn't make it so. If I may quote a GM I once spoke to, "working as intended".

But seriously though, what exactly is the "bug" that you are crying about? (You see how I threw "crying" in there to be a dick?)

Well for myself its like this.

>just ban
You are not currently banished from any town.
>just warrant
You are wanted for no crimes.

Then if you go to use any shop in town in the Landing you are automatically locked up and banished again. So you end up sitting in jail for 2 hours and it stacks crimes you haven't commited. That's a bug not a design flaw.

Some people are locked up and just booted or hanged outside town with all their gear attached.

What sluntty and Jaimaltz do is abuse the faulty justice system to not get jail time. He chooses fine. Goes naked and doesnt pay the fine. Rinse and repeat

All in all the Justice system needs an overhaul to make it viable.

[Tea & Strumpets]

Well for myself its like this.

>just ban
You are not currently banished from any town.
>just warrant
You are wanted for no crimes.

Then if you go to use any shop in town in the Landing you are automatically locked up and banished again. So you end up sitting in jail for 2 hours and it stacks crimes you haven't commited. That's a bug not a design flaw.

Some people are locked up and just booted or hanged outside town with all their gear attached.

What sluntty and Jaimaltz do is abuse the faulty justice system to not get jail time. He chooses fine. Goes naked and doesnt pay the fine. Rinse and repeat

All in all the Justice system needs an overhaul to make it viable.

I agree that sounds like faulty mechanics from what you've described, but it's one thing broken out of a thousand. You might as well go on a crusade to make bloodburst deaths suddenly start attracting the constable. The whole point of having a game with no GM's is so that you can abuse the rules they put in place for a GM controlled environment...or am I totally misunderstanding Shattered?

[ShatteredCasis]

There's an issue with game mechanics whether you want to term it a bug or not. The game suffers a severe limitation with the game mechanics, and if the numbers increase (ie more Sluntty's) the game becomes unplayable, except for those whose "game" is to prevent anyone else from any reasonable form of playing. Of course, troll, it's technically valid saying that ppl could continue to "play" getting killed constantly. But who's willing to do this, and pay for that?

The ppl saying this is what you signed up for or don't want changes either themselves don't play shattered, or are themselves griefers (or strive to be so).

So if simu is willing to make changes, then it's actually not pointless to make change suggestions. If simu is not willing to make changes, then they'll end up having to start banning. The final option is to just stop offering shattered at all - which will happen either by simu choice, or a side-effect of them doing nothing at all.

[Tea & Strumpets]

The ppl saying this is what you signed up for or don't want changes either themselves don't play shattered, or are themselves griefers (or strive to be so).



I agree it would be awesome if anyone that disagrees with you automatically falls into one of your categories that you've invented, but it's simply not the case.

I'll help you out in generalizing my viewpoint by saying I don't play Shattered right off the bat. I'm pretty confident that if I did choose to play, I would not ask the GM's to change the game mechanics so that people would stop killing me, though.

There are literally dozens of ways to circumvent the justice system. If you think you are going to address all the CvC imbalances and have the GM's change the game mechanics, I think you are in for a major disappointment.

Also, nerf implosion because my CM training isn't helping me dodge it, thx.

[ShatteredCasis]

I'll help you out in generalizing my viewpoint by saying I don't play Shattered right off the bat.

Glad you helped me out there, I would never have guessed.

[Drunken Durfin]

I'll help you out in generalizing my viewpoint by saying I don't play Shattered right off the bat.

I still don't get why people who don't play Shattered even read the Shattered threads. Even better is when they suggest things when they don't have a clue as to what is going on.

Now, before you go all nerd-rage:

1) I was not a fan of turning off justice.
2) I am not for banning anyone.
3) I am not for nerfing any spells.
4) I did not sign up for PvP, I signed up for no Andraste.
- (yes, I know I checked the box. I just never dreamed that some asshat would get his rocks off by killing people 30 trains under him while both he and the victim were both AFK)
5) I would like to see something implemented to allow us, the players, to deal with this obvious hole in the system. Solomon himself stated on the officials that GS was not designed for PvP and as a result there are serious problems.

[Tea & Strumpets]

I still don't get why people who don't play Shattered even read the Shattered threads. Even better is when they suggest things when they don't have a clue as to what is going on.

Now, before you go all nerd-rage:

1) I was not a fan of turning off justice.
2) I am not for banning anyone.
3) I am not for nerfing any spells.
4) I did not sign up for PvP, I signed up for no Andraste.
- (yes, I know I checked the box. I just never dreamed that some asshat would get his rocks off by killing people 30 trains under him while both he and the victim were both AFK)
5) I would like to see something implemented to allow us, the players, to deal with this obvious hole in the system. Solomon himself stated on the officials that GS was not designed for PvP and as a result there are serious problems.

Why would I go nerd rage after you quote my statement about how easy it would be to dismiss everything I say because I don't play shattered, and then you respond by dismissing everything I say because I don't play shattered?

Obviously, I've got no vested interest because I don't play. I'm just saying you are pussies that cry to the GM's when someone abuses mechanics in a way you can't easily circumvent... Not really, but I like to be insulting.

My real point is that you want to play a game with no rules but the game mechanics (ie. no GM intervention), and then ask the GM's to change the game mechanics when someone is playing in a fashion that you disapprove of. Either sign up for no rules, or play the regular GS, imo. If they cave into you complaining vaginas (no disrespect to vaginas), they'll have to listen to the rest of the sissies, too.

[Alorn15]

Either sign up for no rules, or play the regular GS, imo. If they cave into you complaining vaginas (no disrespect to vaginas), they'll have to listen to the rest of the sissies, too.

Understanding the situation should be pre-requisite to name calling. At the very least, it does not lend itself to receiving an explanation of the problem.

I've always felt that arrogance was more contemptible than ignorance, and here you are demonstrating both.

PWNED!

P.S. I don't care if they do anything or not.

[RichardCranium]

Why would I go nerd rage after you quote my statement about how easy it would be to dismiss everything I say because I don't play shattered, and then you respond by dismissing everything I say because I don't play shattered?

Obviously, I've got no vested interest because I don't play. I'm just saying you are pussies that cry to the GM's when someone abuses mechanics in a way you can't easily circumvent... Not really, but I like to be insulting.

My real point is that you want to play a game with no rules but the game mechanics (ie. no GM intervention), and then ask the GM's to change the game mechanics when someone is playing in a fashion that you disapprove of. Either sign up for no rules, or play the regular GS, imo. If they cave into you complaining vaginas (no disrespect to vaginas), they'll have to listen to the rest of the sissies, too.

It's broken, I don't know what you don't understand about that. If they don't change something there will be no one left to play the game.

[ShatteredCasis]

P.S. I don't care if they do anything or not.

Damn you. You will either fit into one of my categories, or ELSE I will create a whole new one for you... and you won't like it at all.

[Tillmen]

The justice system if flawed, but it's not a big deal. Death sting is flawed, and it is a big deal. If a griefer kills you, it's harder for you to advance your character. If you kill a capped griefer, their death sting goes from infinity to infinity + 1, and they are delayed from griefing for about one second.

The only way to currently deal with them, is to keep them stunned or bound for as long as you can. When justice was turned on, this meant they could grief in town, and if you managed to stun or bind them, the justice system would rescue them and drop them off in a sanctuary two minutes later with no ill consequences. Now that justice is half-off, if you manage to stun or bind them, an alt comes in invisible and casts sanctuary or kills them to rescue them. (Or Jaeden rescues them...)

Unblanced PvP is fine. Dieing for no reason other than someone wants to be an ass is fine. Some ass being immune to any sort of consequence due to a design flaw makes for a short lived game.

Some people don't like PvP. That's fine. Maybe they're crying, maybe they're not. I don't care.

I like PvP, but there is absolutely no reason to kill a griefer that is exploiting the game flaw. I might as well use the ACT verb.

(Tillmen kills you.)

If you can't see a problem with that.. rabble rabble rabble.

[Drunken Durfin]

I'm on the rag and don't have a target for my anger. I came here to try and stir up some shit.

That would have been more to the point, no?

[Tea & Strumpets]

Understanding the situation should be pre-requisite to name calling. At the very least, it does not lend itself to receiving an explanation of the problem.

I've always felt that arrogance was more contemptible than ignorance, and here you are demonstrating both.

PWNED!

P.S. I don't care if they do anything or not.

I called the complainers vaginas (and pointed out that it was not in a disrespectful way), so I feel the name calling charge is invalid. Huge fan of vaginas here!

I'm just boggled that people would want to play a game with no rules, and then ask to have rules added because other people aren't playing how they had envisioned it (I'm not really surprised, but I do find it ridiculous). You might as well write a complaint letter to Simu and say "I'm a PAYING customer DAMNIT, and this is what I signed up for!"

[ShatteredCasis]

I called the complainers vaginas (and pointed out that it was not in a disrespectful way), so I feel the name calling charge is invalid. Huge fan of vaginas here!

I'm just boggled that people would want to play a game with no rules, and then ask to have rules added because other people aren't playing how they had envisioned it (I'm not really surprised, but I do find it ridiculous). You might as well write a complaint letter to Simu and say "I'm a PAYING customer DAMNIT, and this is what I signed up for!"

I'm gonna categorize you as a moron now. Don't feel too bad tho, there's a subcategory of ignorant you qualify for.

[Deathravin]

Every time I see this thread title I read it as

"From someone who doesn't know what they're talking about... I'm going to pass judgement and insert my opinion on issues I have no experience with"

[Hiateit]

and everyone else sees you QQ'ing with your toons logged off. buy this fucken jeweerly bag back, it's heavy.




jewelry (73): bronze and peridot armband, jade-inlaid blue starstone armband, deathstone inset pewter band, deathstone studded silver band, glittering platinum band, etched pewter band, lapis-inlaid mithril band, malachite and ruby band, copper and golden topaz band, polished red sunstone band, princess-cut garnet barrette, ivory-inlaid fire opal barrette, gold filigree pink dreamstone barrette, malachite-set platinum barrette, glittering sterling silver bracelet, beveled star ruby bracelet, polished bloodjewel bracelet, gold and beryl bracer, pewter and diamond bracer, jade-inlaid silver brooch, beveled white starstone brooch, turquoise-set silver alloy brooch, cut emerald inset copper brooch, chrysoberyl studded ora buckle, jade-inlaid pink sapphire circlet, simple pink topaz circlet, malachite and blue sapphire clasp, delicate bloodjewel clasp, alexandrite inset eonake crown, white opal inset platinum crown, gem-encrusted pewter crown, elegant pewter crown, green garnet inset mithril crown, onyx-inlaid sterling silver crown, hammered silver alloy crown, princess-cut pink sapphire earcuff, ivory-inlaid platinum earcuff, turquoise-set pewter earcuff, chased platinum earring, enruned copper earring, jade and aquamarine medallion, bronze and aquamarine medallion, green garnet inset ora medallion, white opal inset gold medallion, jade and amber necklace, emerald-set sterling silver necklace, elegant imflass necklace, snake-etched silver alloy necklace, etched platinum necklace, flame-cut white starstone necklace, blue spinel studded mithril necklace, beryl-inset platinum pendant, topaz-inset pewter pin, ruby-inset sterling silver pin, jade and bloodjewel pin, coral studded silver pin, elegant alexandrite ring, simple pink dreamstone ring, heart-cut blue tourmaline ring, garnet-set platinum ring, lapis-inlaid gold ring, copper and blue starstone ring, filigreed gold ring, jade-inlaid mithril stickpin, etched sterling silver stickpin, bone-inlaid copper talisman, lapis-inlaid pewter torc (2), radiant-cut pink sapphire torc, etched imflass torc, fine silver torc, bronze and garnet torc, turquoise-set ora torc.
other (7): elegant pewter headband, pink topaz inset ora headband, marquise-cut pink dreamstone headband, turquoise studded bronze headband, mangled iron spoon, malachite-set gold tiara, turquoise studded copper tiara.
Bac says, "Oh no."

[Hiateit]

LordDeathravin is available 9:08 pm
Hiateit9 9:09 pm
(9:09:37 PM): thought of something that might be acceptable for once, buy this jewewwerwererly backpack back, and i'll make 156 untargetable for me and jaim, along with your otf swims, so you get a supernode/hunting area/ and all your guys on the nokill list.
(9:09:49 PM): then in six months you can come kick my ass once your way post capped. lets make sense here.

[LMingrone]

Shattered needs Spike to come back. Have his war rat self all over the trolls.

[Deathravin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgMx4Lqf4T4

[Tea & Strumpets]

I'm gonna categorize you as a moron now. Don't feel too bad tho, there's a subcategory of ignorant you qualify for.

Sorry I hurt your feelings. :(

[Fortybox]

I read "from someone who doesn't play shattered" and immediately stopped reading. The end.

[LMingrone]

Why would anyone need to play Shattered to realize the issues? It's made to be a sandbox. Wanna play? Pay. If not, don't.

Or, if people are going to stop QQing, Lock down one town. Have at least two near cap (or capped) characters of each profession that live in that town.

[Fortybox]

I read "Why would anyone need to play Shattered to realize the issues?" and stopped reading the rest. The end.

[Warriorbird]

I called the complainers vaginas (and pointed out that it was not in a disrespectful way), so I feel the name calling charge is invalid. Huge fan of vaginas here!

I'm just boggled that people would want to play a game with no rules, and then ask to have rules added because other people aren't playing how they had envisioned it (I'm not really surprised, but I do find it ridiculous). You might as well write a complaint letter to Simu and say "I'm a PAYING customer DAMNIT, and this is what I signed up for!"

Anarchy breeds government just like 'free markets' breed less free markets, which is something that A. anarchists and B. Randians don't get.

The question here is more of what sort of government will be bred. DR: The Fallen is a scripter haven. Shattered still seems to be being decided as to whether it will be a gradually shrinking set of scripters or PVPers.

The level based vs skill based nature effects it.

[Tea & Strumpets]

Anarchy breeds government just like 'free markets' breed less free markets, which is something that A. anarchists and B. Randians don't get.

The question here is more of what sort of government will be bred. DR: The Fallen is a scripter haven. Shattered still seems to be being decided as to whether it will be a gradually shrinking set of scripters or PVPers.

The level based vs skill based nature effects it.


I honestly don't mean to be sarcastic in any way, but could you dumb that down for me? I got no idea what you are talking about on the first read.

[Warriorbird]

I honestly don't mean to be sarcastic in any way, but could you dumb that down for me? I got no idea what you are talking about on the first read.

Anarchy tends to lead to not anarchy. It's up in the air whether scripters or griefers will win Shattered. I think the justice system shutoff was fine. I think the current scripters' further QQing is silly.

Either way, they need to work to reverse the trend of no rules Simu games dwindling to nothing.

[subzero]

but it's one thing broken out of a thousand. You might as well go on a crusade to make bloodburst deaths suddenly start attracting the constable.

It's been stated time and again that these type of deaths are intentionally clear of certain repercussions.


The whole point of having a game with no GM's is so that you can abuse the rules they put in place for a GM controlled environment...or am I totally misunderstanding Shattered?

Opinions, assholes... yeah. Works here, too. I would wager that the majority did not come here for abusive pvp. I think we all knew there would be people that got their rocks off doing that sort of thing and that we would have to deal with it at some point. The problem here is that we expected there would be mechanics in place that would help us deter certain levels of asshatery. Those mechanics, as people have pointed out several times already, are busted in this instance.

[Hiateit]

sign who ya are in game atleast.

[subzero]

I just never dreamed that some asshat would get his rocks off

Quit stealin my fuckin lines!

[Hiateit]

The difference is too nice - Where ends the virtue or begins the vice.

[ShatteredCasis]

They will have to start banning? Why?

High School Economics. PPL won't want to play, thus won't pay. Banning will cost them what, maybe 5 accounts. Doing nothing at all will cost them 50+.

The possibility of being banned *is* something we all checked when we signed up.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not pro-ban. I'd much rather see mechanics improved, as having uber-villians could be loads of fun. Just saying *if* they aren't going to be willing to do that, ppl will start dropping to the point where simu will either bring banning into play, or continue losing accounts till it dies on it's own.

And honestly, game mechanic improvements would also benefits the villians, as it wouldn't be an unfair assessment that the mechanisms that has us all in an uproar about has been two-sided. IE, what Emh did to Jaimaltz months ago is really no different that what Sluntty is doing, in terms of no longer caring about the characters in-game penalties (He was quitting the game and was "getting revenge" for shit that Jaimaltz had done).

[Fatsix]

http://verydemotivational.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/demotivational-posters-wait.jpg