A little myth dispelling.

[TheEschaton]

So, I was watching ER tonight, and there's some storyline about a male doctor performing a breast exam, and the woman thinking it was sexual harassment because he "enjoyed it". The doctor is pleading his case, when one of the women says, "Oh please, we all know men only think about food, TV, and sex. If they had a refrigerator with a TV and a vagina on it, we might have to worry about the continuation of the species", or some feminist bullshit like that.

Here's a few things. I am a heterosexual 22 year old male. I'm by no means a metrosexual. I like football and hockey, to the point of what one might call "fanaticism". I've owned porn in my life, and yes, I have fantasized about women naked. I enjoy eating, I also enjoy watching various vagaries on TV.

But here's the thing. That is very far from the complete picture of what men are. What makes you think men are incapable of higher thought? What makes you think men are primal animals? My friends and I hold bonds more secure and steadfast than steel beams. We dream of perfect women, who we have kids with and houses with, and waking up to our kids jumping in our beds and reading the Sunday comics with. We dream of taking our kids to the park, of having a job we love and don't have to drag ourselves out of bed for, we have a sense of self-worth and dislike being insulted and degraded as much as women do. My friend, the other day, came to me struggling with the thought of becoming a priest - a priest, an idea which clashes so heavily with the stereotype of what "men" are, and yet he has a serious commitment to it that is clashing with what society expects of a 6'4" 320 pound guy who once had a shot at a Div-I football scholarship to play guard. Are some men like that? Yes, no doubt. Are some of those men forced there by stereotypes like the man show, etc, etc, etc? I believe so.

We do watch sports, we do think about sex quite a bit, and we do like food. But we are not cretins. That doesn't complete us. I find it personally frustrating that such a stereotype exists where women believe what the nurse said on ER that, "Please, men, when they introduce themselves, might as well ask us to show them our tits, cause that's what they're thinking about."

Argh, I can't even articulate myself well on the point, it's so frustrating. I think we need a good men's lib movement. Started right here on the PC.

One thing I always say to my friends, on why men are more sensitive then most women think: Women don't need, and often do well without, a man. No man would ever argue that he could be a complete person without a woman (or a man, if you swing that way). All the confirmed bachelors in the world beyond the age of 30 constantly wonder if he's missed his chance, or if there ever was a chance, or if he still hasn't met her, but she's out there - hell, it's the theme of all James Bond movies. Even 007 got married, once.

-TheE-

[Chyrain]

all i think about is food, tv and sex.

[HarmNone]

Ish, TheE. What makes YOU think most women even think like that? I certainly do not, nor do most of my friends. People are individuals, regardless of gender. Stereotyping is, simply put, stupid! What one sees on ER is certainly not indicative of anything real.

HarmNone

[Hulkein]

<<We dream of perfect women, who we have kids with and houses with, and waking up to our kids jumping in our beds and reading the Sunday comics with. We dream of taking our kids to the park,>>

I agree... I saw the episode too, but didn't really get upset about it because I'm used to just dismissing things as liberal/feminist stereotyping, haha.

I personally cannot wait to teach my kids how to play baseball and coach tee-ball and pee-wee baseball. Bring them to Phillies games with my wife when they're young so they can have the same feeling I had when I went with my parents and sister.

The more I hate growing up and wishing I could go back to that point in time, the more I keep remembering that soon I'll be in my dads shoes and it is probably pretty fulfilling.

[ThisOtherKingdom]

I was watching ER tonight also. I wasn't immediately offended, however. While there are plenty of men who require much more than "Food, sex, sports," there are just as many who think that is ALL they need. There will never be a man's liberation from that fact.

[TheEschaton]

Just like there will be women who will always think the woman's place is in the home, raising kids, and washing dishes. Doesn't mean there can't be a feminine revolution.


-TheE-

[ThisOtherKingdom]

Are there really women who still think that who aren't over 70?

[Snapp]

Mehki Pfifer's hot... oh wait.. where was I?

I agree with HN.. I really don't think its THAT big of a stereotype. Sure, some women may think that all men are pigs, or whatever.. but that's their loss, and really not the majority.

[Scott]

<<<<All the confirmed bachelors in the world beyond the age of 30 constantly wonder if he's missed his chance, or if there ever was a chance, or if he still hasn't met her, but she's out there - hell, it's the theme of all James Bond movies.>>>

I'm close to 30 (and that will be the ONE time I ever say that) and I don't ever think about that. Right now I enjoy what I've done in my life (past 18 when I wasn't crazy and stupid) and I don't think I could have had it any better. I think this statement should be something like "anyone over 50." Right now I'm glad I'm not tied down with a wife/kid, but I'm sure that will change.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by ThisOtherKingdom
Are there really women who still think that who aren't over 70? Yes.

Did anyone else do a double take at "vagaries"? :D

[TheEschaton]

My boy Pope literally IMed me this 5 minutes after I posted this (he has nothing to do with Gemstone, so I don't think he knew about this post): I feel vindicated (http://www.stwing.upenn.edu/~jenf/writing/rant04.html)

[Chyrain]

Originally posted by ThisOtherKingdom
Are there really women who still think that who aren't over 70?


Well, I'm 25 and I'd prefer to stay at home with my kids. I might even go as far as saying taking care of my family is my place. Not that my husband wouldn't be washing dishes still if I was a complete homemaker...but seriously, no one can take the place of a mommy.

However, I'm lucky and even if I didn't own my own business, the income that comes into my family affords me the opportunity to stay at home and not work. I've just got the best of both worlds with my business and being able to stick it out at home for the most part. If I had to work 40 hours a week outside of the house...I wouldn't choose to do that. I'd be Holly the Happy Homemaker. And I'd be happy with that.

[Back]

I swear, there are "family" designated parking spots at Ikea. Handicap, family, then us single losers!

[Latrinsorm]

"many girls are just illogical, manipulative bitches."

:lol2:

[Pallon]

If it's all the same to you, I'll take one of those refrigerators

[SpunGirl]

Notice that the woman bitching and dismissing males in that manner is also single.

Yes, I know it's a show, but hey, it's a SHOW.

-K

[DCSL]

The women that think that way aren't going to get any from anyone but the assholes that'll use 'em and lose 'em, just like they rant about. Let that console you.

[Nakiro]

The key is to find a women you like, come to love, and show her that you aren't that way.

Really I agree though, its a shame that women sometimes find us so simple.

Another one from that show tonight that was a dagger in the back was the line right after the frig comment: "A dog is more mysterious than most men."

Many (most)[all] men are capable of feeding, watching the tv, and downloading porn all by themselves, yet they still get women. Doesn't this mean that there has to be something more to us?

[longshot]

Originally posted by TheEschaton

We dream of perfect women, who we have kids with and houses with, and waking up to our kids jumping in our beds and reading the Sunday comics with. We dream of taking our kids to the park,....



I have yet to meet anyone happily married.

[Nakiro]

That's not really a fair survey. Happy people can be hard to find in general.

[Jazuela]

If this offers you any hope, Esch:

I am happily married, and have been for 13 years to a nice guy. When I was younger I was pretty wild, took what I could get, set my standards low, all because I thought "putting out" was the quickest way to make a guy fall in love with you. What I wanted was love. What I got was sex. And it wasn't usually even good sex. Oh well, sucks to be me as a teenager and a woman in her 20's. Then I grew up. Decided that ya know - sex ain't all that. My past experiences proved this point very clearly, I just was too blinded to pay attention at the time.

So I stopped looking for sex. Stopped looking for instant gratification. Stopped looking for (what I thought was) love. And then it showed up. A Nice Guy [tm] who was exactly what that Ode talks about. I was a bartender in a bowling alley, and had 2 other waitress jobs, and was pulling in some decent coinage between the three in tips every week.

And these drunken assholes would constantly try to get me to go out with them after I closed the bar. One night, one of these drunks was being more insistant than I had expected. So I turned to the guy sitting down at the other end of the bar. The one who had -politely- asked me on a date twice already, who I dismissed because he had bad teeth (grandpa was a dentist - I had -some- standards at least! )

I said to the drunk, "Sorry, I'm going out with HIM." and pointed to the guy with the bad teeth.

Not wanting to lose a good customer who actually had manners, I walked the walk and went out with the guy with the bad teeth. We got married 2 years later and have been married ever since. And - he got his teeth fixed so he could smile for the photographer at the wedding.

The nice guys always seem to be in the background. They're the ones with the "soft voice." It's the obnoxious beer-guzzling pot-bellied football-screaming cretins who stand out. So a lot of us women forget that the nice guys are right there, sitting at the bar, sipping their rum and coke slowly, and trying to politely ask us for a date.

I'm just grateful that I remembered to look down at that end of the bar.

[Nakiro]

Cute story.

My girl took advantage of me while I was a nice guy and asked ME out. Go figure ':oD

[Sweets]

Originally posted by longshot

Originally posted by TheEschaton

We dream of perfect women, who we have kids with and houses with, and waking up to our kids jumping in our beds and reading the Sunday comics with. We dream of taking our kids to the park,....



I have yet to meet anyone happily married.

*shakes longshots hand* Nice to meet you.


There. You just met a happily married woman.




I hate stereotypes. That includes anyone saying all men are pigs. All woman bitches.

Some people do NEED to lighten up. It's a show. It showed one aspect of life.

Narrow.

[Miss X]

Everyone is different. Out of my male friends there are some that literally think about food/sex/sport/alcohol and they are totally comfortable with admitting it. There are also some that are completly opposite, ones that can't wait to get married and have a family.

Its the same with women, some of my girl friends never wanna settle down, some already have and some, like me are kinda inbetween. We are all around 20-24 though, according to UK stats most women get married when they are 27+, thats cool with me.

Seriously though, I don't think many people actually believe men are totally shallow, I go out of my way to avoid the ones that are, still its kinda nice to hear a guy saying he thinks about sunday mornings messing around with the kids and stuff, its easy for women who have been through a few morons to assume all men are the same.

[AnticorRifling]

Your first mistake is YOU WERE WATCHING ER!!!!

[Xcalibur]

Men, in general, think of sex every what... 12 minutes?

It's in our genes. Any guys that isn't sexually hungry should be questionned immediatly (of course most men like that are soft, little pink dudes).

For girls: Try this, let your men sleep with other girls including you. Examine his behavior 2 months later. You'll see an happy productive healthy man.

Then cut it out and be jealous. Total opposite.

[Miss X]

X..... You know I :heart: you but omg you have no morals!!! That's probably the worst advice ever!! :grr:

[DeV]

Originally posted by DCSL
The women that think that way aren't going to get any from anyone but the assholes that'll use 'em and lose 'em, just like they rant about. Let that console you.
Basically true. You have to look at the source of the statement TheE. You honestly think all women feel that way...

[Tendarian]

I dont think anymore women believe that than men who believe women are over emotional drama queens who try to manipulate anyone and everyone.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Tendarian
I dont think anymore women believe that than men who believe women are over emotional drama queens who try to manipulate anyone and everyone. Gotcha.
The women that think that are dingy bats. The men who think women are drama queens however would be correct in the assumption that 'some', not all are that way at one point or another, or hell most of the time for a select few. Oh, and I know a bunch of guys that fit into the 'drama queen' queue as well. :)

[Tendarian]

Yeah but i know a bunch of guy who fit the only think of sex thing too. The trap is to think most(all) are like that.

What about alcohol?

[Shari]

This is the equivalant of men stereotypes about women....we're overemotional, two-faced, shopping freaks.

I'm sure many people look at these statements in jest. I know men are more in-depth than that, but its still amusing to watch the insults fly when you say a statement like that.

Don't let it get to you, E.

[Myshel]

Their are men and women who fit the stereotypes perfectly, to the letter. Then there are a bunch who fit some of them and some of them not at all. Then there are some who fit both lists. The point is, that men and woman are different species sometimes, and as humans we are all different.
As a girly girl, I do like to shop, cosmetics, beauty shops and chick flicks, a whole array of *girl tendencies*. But about half the list (see Stanley's list) doesn't fit me at all. Am I offended when men assume I'm a drama queen, like to talk on the phone or insanely obsessed with 5 lbs? Nope, but I don't assume that all men love sports, beer and looking down my blouse.
As for marriage, I've been married a long time. Its not always good, but as my Mama used to say, if wasn't for the bad times you wouldn't appreciate the good. So like life marriage cycles, sometimes its great and sometimes you want to kill them (slowly with lots of pain involved.) Its the strength of your character that lets you ride out the bad times, work though it and not walk away when the going gets tough. IMHO, for a lot of people walking away when it gets tough is why the divorce rates are so high.

[Makkah]

Oh my god... what a fucking LAME thread.

rht