Lich community

[phantasm]

Now that psinet is dead, the majority of those users are moving over to lich.
Psinet users are just that.
They can't be expected to contribute scripts.
They can't be expected to fix something on their own.
Previously lich was a scripting tool used by scripters.
Lich users championed it to every psinet user as the way of the future.
Now that lich has a community of none software engineers using it, can it support them?

When there was problems with psinet, you knew who to ask for help Jamus.

The lich repo makes many complex scripts available to the general user.

So, if there are problems with something, who fixes it?

If you can't get something to work who do you ask for help?

My experience so far has been that most people on lnet either don't know or don't care to help.

There are a few exceptions, and there are a few that will just outright tell you that you're an asshole and fix it yourself.

Is there some way to organise the lich community so that people know who to go to for assistance?

If a script is available on the repository should the author be expected to support it?

[Caetul]

Now that psinet is dead, the majority of those users are moving over to lich.
Psinet users are just that.
They can't be expected to contribute scripts.
They can't be expected to fix something on their own.
Previously lich was a scripting tool used by scripters.
Lich users championed it to every psinet user as the way of the future.
Now that lich has a community of none software engineers using it, can it support them?

When there was problems with psinet, you knew who to ask for help Jamus.

The lich repo makes many complex scripts available to the general user.

So, if there are problems with something, who fixes it?

If you can't get something to work who do you ask for help?

My experience so far has been that most people on lnet either don't know or don't care to help.

There are a few exceptions, and there are a few that will just outright tell you that you're an asshole and fix it yourself.

Is there some way to organise the lich community so that people know who to go to for assistance?

If a script is available on the repository should the author be expected to support it?

The Lich Community is pretty much LNET. If you ask, eventually someone will help you, but of course you'll get those who normally don't help and give the same answers again and again.

I can be a smart ass at times when I'm bored and what not, but i tend to usually help out as best as I can when it boils down to it.

I know I've helped out a few people already with things, even emailed them stuff as well

[Tordane]

Now that psinet is dead, the majority of those users are moving over to lich.
Psinet users are just that.
They can't be expected to contribute scripts.
They can't be expected to fix something on their own.
Previously lich was a scripting tool used by scripters.
Lich users championed it to every psinet user as the way of the future.
Now that lich has a community of none software engineers using it, can it support them?

When there was problems with psinet, you knew who to ask for help Jamus.

The lich repo makes many complex scripts available to the general user.

So, if there are problems with something, who fixes it?

If you can't get something to work who do you ask for help?

My experience so far has been that most people on lnet either don't know or don't care to help.

There are a few exceptions, and there are a few that will just outright tell you that you're an asshole and fix it yourself.

Is there some way to organise the lich community so that people know who to go to for assistance?

If a script is available on the repository should the author be expected to support it?


How it worked in the past was...most of us knew each other and knew whose script was whose. Hell, you could usually tell just from coding style and I still can with a few of the contributors. With the current repository that includes serious fucktons of scripts, its kinda grown out of control if you don't know what your looking for.

Problem is, I've tried to help multiple people and I get the this lich thing is pissing me off, its a piece of shit that never works for me. So, yeah...I pretty much get burned every time I try to help someone, especially from the LNET channel which I've pretty much perma-tuned out of except for one character for the odd comment from someone who doesn't remember to use ;chat :channelname.

As to expecting the author of the script to support it, I doubt it. If contact information is included in the script header, most of the time that is a clear indication they wish to support it for public use. Your more popular scripts have active topics on this forum which have great amounts of information and bug reports, but as with most things...people have to read it. You also deal with programmers who aren't dealing with Gemstone on a day to day basis.

All this being said, I know myself and others still try to help people despite the attitude of the new lich user so if your having problems...post them if you don't get a response from the LNET community.


ADDED via EDIT:
Lich is still a program that requires you to want to learn something if you want to be proficient. If your just looking for basic maps, travel, and spellup scripts it does that as well. If you go much deeper than that, expect to have people want you to learn it yourself. The Lich community has always been a group of people willing to teach/help those who want to learn, but you can't expect for people to put the candy in your hand. Come to the community having done some research and applied some thought on your own, show us your willing to learn something. Lich was created by a guy wanting to learn Ruby in his spare time, and that mantra has never seemed to fade from the community. I can't say personally why Tillmen continues his contributions, but I would imagine its because he enjoys the language. Ruby has a bright future in the programming world, and anyone who cares to learn a little will definitely see why.

[faloon]

Well put Tordane.

[SpiffyJr]

Down with Ruby! Hooray for PHP!

On a more serious note - the constant questions really got annoying and fast. The majority of LNet users are gimme, gimme, mine, mine, now, now, now which I generally tell to fuck off.

[phantasm]

I know that Spiffy has made some lich scripts, but I have no idea which ones.

Right now the repo is a big jumble of scripts.

It could be segmented in to two groups:

Core Scripts (narost, infomon, autosort, magic, waggle...etc)
Better know what your doing scripts (bigshot, sloot...etc)

The community could then focus on just supporting the core scripts, and if someone wants to use a more complex script, they better know what they're doing.

[Sam]

If you're attempting to help out, you should write some code. Making obvious suggestions to the coders is more likely going to get you a "fuck off, guy".

Everyone knows that the repository is kind of a mess, and lots of scripts aren't documented at all, but that kind of work is the worst.

Personally, I write scripts for myself and share them with a few friends, or write custom solutions for random people who ask. I have a few things on the repo, but mostly I stay away from the public because of what Spiffy said.

I write scripts because it's fun, and a lot if times it's "hmm I wonder how I could do this.." It's not a service, and the hours and hours it requires to provide support for any script far exceed the time it would take to write. Support, documentation, organization... those are the shitty parts that a lot of script writers probably are forced to do at work, and are happy to not have to do it here.

[eeky]

I look at it this way, if the script doesn't work there is probably something better or its being worked on. There is always someone that can help with core issues so if I have a problem I ask and if I don't get help then I ask latter or post.
Right now I have scripts that hunt, does bounties, loots and sells, deals with my spells, makes things in my bags easier to see and well a lot more. None of which I could do myself. I think lich is great. I think the people who make these scripts are even greater. So when I don't get an answer to my questions I make do but in all honestly it doesn't happen very often and when it does I look at all of the above.

[SpiffyJr]

I know that Spiffy has made some lich scripts, but I have no idea which ones.

voodoo, krakii, repogui, sammu, sstamina, sloot, spellactive, buddyup

Maybe some more that I probably forgot about.

[Sheikh]

voodoo, krakii, repogui, sammu, sstamina, sloot, spellactive, buddyup

Maybe some more that I probably forgot about.

Your voln ones for keeping track of favor or doing ranks or something also

[eeky]

Sbounty!

[SpiffyJr]

Your voln ones for keeping track of favor or doing ranks or something also

It was for trying to track favor and in doing so I found out that everything we know about favor is... wrong.

[phantasm]

If you're attempting to help out, you should write some code. Making obvious suggestions to the coders is more likely going to get you a "fuck off, guy".

Personally, I write scripts for myself and share them with a few friends....


This seems to be the guiding force behind lich.
Its mission statement is "do it yourself and fuck off".

I guess what I'm asking is, are there any lich developers that are interested in supporting core scripts, having a bunch of people use their code, and listening to complaints/suggestions/comments from those users? Or is lich basically just a bunch of guys like Brute?

[Alorn15]

My experience so far has been that most people on lnet either don't know or don't care to help.

It's because Lich has become populated by users like this dude:


This seems to be the guiding force behind lich.
Its mission statement is "do it yourself and fuck off".

I guess what I'm asking is, are there any lich developers that are interested in supporting core scripts, having a bunch of people use their code, and listening to complaints/suggestions/comments from those users? Or is lich basically just a bunch of guys like Brute?

edit: http://www.squidoo.com/ruby-programming-beginner

[Drew]

This seems to be the guiding force behind lich.
Its mission statement is "do it yourself and fuck off".

I guess what I'm asking is, are there any lich developers that are interested in supporting core scripts, having a bunch of people use their code, and listening to complaints/suggestions/comments from those users? Or is lich basically just a bunch of guys like Brute?

I'm not a good coder but I've been on lich longer than most everyone and I've spent a lot of time helping people with installs/problems/etc but in the end no one is getting paid for this so support is going to be hit or miss.

[Gnomad]

This seems to be the guiding force behind lich.
Its mission statement is "contribute something to the community or fuck off".Fixed that for you. Most people who write scripts don't mind helping people who aren't just on lich for a handout.

If you're using a script on the repo, that means:

1) Someone took the time and effor to write it
2) Someone was nice enough to share it with you
3) Your GS experience is better for having that script

Do they really owe you anything more?

If you don't like it, I'm sure all the script writers will give you your money back.

edit: a good way to drive the script writers batty is to not read repo info and all the other stuff before asking questions

[SpiffyJr]

edit: a good way to drive the script writers batty is to not read repo info and all the other stuff before asking questions

That is a sure way to get me riled. Another is me answering the same question over, and over, and over, and over, and over. I tried everything I could to stop repeat questions.

* I tried an auto-updater with a changelog - no one read it.
* I tried to post a thread with my updates - no one read it.
* I tried to put the changelog directly in the script - no one read it.

[Gnomad]

i loved all 3 of those things. the changelog especially was awesome and at least i appreciated it a ton.

[phantasm]

Lets be frank, I don't believe for a minute that scripts are uploaded to the repo for peace, love and kindess. They are uploaded for recognition. Lich isn't organized at all like an open source project where everyone works together for common goals. Its currently more like a middle school pissing contest.

[pabstblueribbon]

This seems to be the guiding force behind lich.
Its mission statement is "do it yourself and fuck off".

I guess what I'm asking is, are there any lich developers that are interested in supporting core scripts, having a bunch of people use their code, and listening to complaints/suggestions/comments from those users? Or is lich basically just a bunch of guys like Brute?

You gotta be fucking kidding me. The biggest champion of Psinet when lich was 'unknown' and now you're here trying to force Psinet's support model on the lich community? Its open fucking source.

Ruby is not hard. You can learn by reading other peoples code. Hack it together, read lich.rb for the methods or many of the how'tos written about it.

You're lucky anyone even shares scripts with you honestly, especially in a competitive game. And the 'core' scripts are very well supported, by Tillmen. You goddamn troll.

[Deathravin]

lich.rb kicks ass for script ideas; it reads like a 'how-to' and is better than any faq.

[phantasm]

Lich is open source, can you show me where I can find the source for the lnet server?

[pabstblueribbon]

lich.rb kicks ass for script ideas; it reads like a 'how-to' and is better than any faq.

Word.

[DaCapn]

This seems to be the guiding force behind lich.
Its mission statement is "do it yourself and fuck off".

I guess what I'm asking is, are there any lich developers that are interested in supporting core scripts, having a bunch of people use their code, and listening to complaints/suggestions/comments from those users? Or is lich basically just a bunch of guys like Brute?

I've been involved with a lot of community-driven projects. It's really less about meeting in the middle than it is about people who are joining approaching with a "when in Rome" attitude. That doesn't mean "do what they do" so much as "think how they think." People in the community have become successful at something based on specific philosophies & methods of thinking. Adopt those as your own. Below are some pointers that explain what they are. It's seldom a good idea to tell other people to be more organized/dedicated/systematic with the way they provide their free services (in this case, it's a horrible idea since people providing this work only stand to lose time and patience by releasing their content).

Despite just stating that, people need to respect the fact that the repo is not a scratch pad. There should be good headers above all. Comments are important but I never expect them. Headers, though, are mandatory. The repo is a mess with trivial near-useless scripts that do things like spam 10 different commands in a loop. If you upload it, it should be generally useful and clearly described. Even things like `whereami` are a bit silly (as useful as it is to tell people to use). The better option would be: `;alias add global whereami=;e echo Room.current.id`

Ways not to be "that guy" when seeking help with a community-driven project:

(1) Don't ask to ask, just ask. You don't say "could I ask someone a couple questions about bigshot, please?" (polite as it is). You say "I'm having a problem with bigshot. It does X with Y setting and I want it to do Z."

(2) Do some cursory research. Never ask from an uninformed position. Search the PC, KP, play.net, and (if applicable) try editing scripts to see if you can find out what is wrong. Most of the time, the implication is that you're lazy, rather than lost, if you don't do this.

(3) Realize that you can learn. Humans are born with a rather limited skill set: eating and shitting. You have learned to do other things and you can learn to do more. People say things like "I can't cook" or "I can't write scripts." The response is "yet." and it will continue to be "yet" until you try to.

(4) Embrace the "roll your own" philosophy. You don't need to be able to re-write lich but you have to be willing to do things on your own. This relates to 2 & 3. If you ask a question and someone tells you to read `;lnet help` don't get upset. That's a good answer. Read it. You'll find out the answer and probably learn something else which is useful along the way. If you need a particular script and one doesn't exist

(5) To learn how, start rolling your own. This is actually more of a tip. You won't be proficient in a programming language by reading about it. The proper way (I've never heard of another that seems to work for everyone) is to just find a problem you want a program/script to solve. Write one to solve it. Look at existing code for hints of how to do things. Then write more. Initially they'll be janky but they'll get better.

To give a personal example:

I used the old Shaelun lich for a while a long time ago. I didn't really use it beyond spell tracking. I went on a couple year long dry-spell in GS (playing once per month). In April of this year, I downloaded the recent version of lich. Before that, I'd never written anything in ruby. I didn't know anything about the built in lich functions, either.

Since then, I've been able to write some pretty great scripts: a locksmithing script (the sort that Gib would never give away... or me either I guess), a totally autonomous hunting script (bigshot is probably better but I've logged hundreds of hours without a hiccup). I reached that proficiency months ago, too.

That doesn't even count the dozens of odd-ball supplementary scripts I've written. Even if you don't have the "thrill of the kill" mindset that some of us have (I don't want to use bigshot, I want to write my own), there's so much to gain from writing your own snippets.

[pabstblueribbon]

(3) Realize that you can learn. Humans are born with a rather limited skill set: eating and shitting. You have learned to do other things and you can learn to do more. People say things like "I can't cook" or "I can't write scripts." The response is "yet." and it will continue to be "yet" until you try to.



So going to use that in my day to day.

[DaCapn]

Lets be frank, I don't believe for a minute that scripts are uploaded to the repo for peace, love and kindess. They are uploaded for recognition. Lich isn't organized at all like an open source project where everyone works together for common goals. Its currently more like a middle school pissing contest.

You're right, people aren't working together for common goals. We're just doing what we want. I've uploaded scripts to the repo with 100% altruism before. Some people probably are in a pissing match or out for recognition. The question is: if people are in competition to write the best version of a script they can to give it away for free, who cares why they do it? Maybe it breeds an environment that some content-consumers don't like. Well, the pure consumers are joining an environment, not creating one. The mindset of the hosts is relatively fixed due to the incentive structure. You can change the incentive structure or you can adapt your behavior to work within it.

You can offer to pay someone to do something. That changes the incentive structure. If someone want to pay me to read KP to answer their questions for them, I might oblige.

The existing incentive structure is simple: People who don't adapt to the mindset required to operate, just repeatedly beg for help. Some people just give them the answer to get them to go away. Others might degrade them continuously until they go away. The second course of action produces much more desirable results if you want the person to go away.

My previous post discusses adapting to the environment. It's really the best solution.

[phantasm]

There exists in the world college students, hobbyists, strange freaks that like looking at code 24 hours a day, high school kids, people with the free time. These people, or you, if your a lich scripter, get some benefit or enjoyment out of writing lich scripts.
I will never be that person.
Gemstone exists soley for me to let my mind be free from day to day stress. I am 100% sure about this.
I will never contribute anything to lich.
I do appreciate that you exist and have the free time, or get some benefit/enjoyment out of writing lich scripts.
Your assumption that everyone should be like you, learning ruby and contributing scripts is quite off the mark.
There is a niche in the world that you fill and not everyone can fill it.
Its the way society works.
I have no problem donating money to something that benefits me like this.
Currently, the state of lich is such that I can't just donate money and not have problems.

[Tordane]

Currently, the state of lich is such that I can't just donate money and not have problems.

Sounds like your using non-core things in Lich. If you have problems with core scripts in Lich, let us know but I would put money on you having next to zero issues with core scripts. Tillmen's response rate to any issue with core functionality is excellent, and your comment is an absolute slap in his face and the awesome work/time he puts into keeping the core functional and useful.

The attitude your exhibiting is the exact reason I stopped sharing anything I create openly. I don't have time to bug fix every script I could release for every single different person/class combo that could use it. I just don't have that type of time between, work/family/playtime. I'm sorry, but thats just how it is and I'm certain I'm not the only one.

Again, I just want to re-iterate how lucky the Lich community is to have someone like Tillmen who does have the time and the will to keep the core functionality of Lich what it is today. Some of the stuff he has done over the past year has really advanced what Lich is capable of doing.

As always Tillmen, hats off my friend no matter what all the haters say. Can say I'm up his ass or whatever, which I'm sure the rep comments on this post will say, but saying it about him is worth it.

[pabstblueribbon]

There exists in the world college students, hobbyists, strange freaks that like looking at code 24 hours a day, high school kids, people with the free time. These people, or you, if your a lich scripter, get some benefit or enjoyment out of writing lich scripts.
I will never be that person.
Gemstone exists soley for me to let my mind be free from day to day stress. I am 100% sure about this.
I will never contribute anything to lich.
I do appreciate that you exist and have the free time, or get some benefit/enjoyment out of writing lich scripts.
Your assumption that everyone should be like you, learning ruby and contributing scripts is quite off the mark.
There is a niche in the world that you fill and not everyone can fill it.
Its the way society works.
I have no problem donating money to something that benefits me like this.
Currently, the state of lich is such that I can't just donate money and not have problems.

http://i31.tinypic.com/14uc8pe.jpg

[pabstblueribbon]

Sounds like your using non-core things in Lich. If you have problems with core scripts in Lich, let us know but I would put money on you having next to zero issues with core scripts. Tillmen's response rate to any issue with core functionality is excellent, and your comment is an absolute slap in his face and the awesome work/time he puts into keeping the core functional and useful.

The attitude your exhibiting is the exact reason I stopped sharing anything I create openly. I don't have time to bug fix every script I could release for every single different person/class combo that could use it. I just don't have that type of time between, work/family/playtime. I'm sorry, but thats just how it is and I'm certain I'm not the only one.

Again, I just want to re-iterate how lucky the Lich community is to have someone like Tillmen who does have the time and the will to keep the core functionality of Lich what it is today. Some of the stuff he has done over the past year has really advanced what Lich is capable of doing.

As always Tillmen, hats off my friend no matter what all the haters say. Can say I'm up his ass or whatever, which I'm sure the rep comments on this post will say, but saying it about him is worth it.

Dude, he's just trolling.

[phantasm]

I only use lich to replicate a psinet like enviornment since that is what I am comfortable with.

That includes: waggle, autosort, keepalive, grab, go2, narost, voodoo

And to replace the library lookup: useherb, metal, wood, ... etc

I have experimented with some of the other scripts available but decided that they are too complex or take away too much from the game for my enjoyment.

Is this considered core ?

http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?t=57686

[DaCapn]

There exists in the world college students, hobbyists, strange freaks that like looking at code 24 hours a day, high school kids, people with the free time. These people, or you, if your a lich scripter, get some benefit or enjoyment out of writing lich scripts.
I will never be that person.
Gemstone exists soley for me to let my mind be free from day to day stress. I am 100% sure about this.
I will never contribute anything to lich.
I do appreciate that you exist and have the free time, or get some benefit/enjoyment out of writing lich scripts.
Your assumption that everyone should be like you, learning ruby and contributing scripts is quite off the mark.
There is a niche in the world that you fill and not everyone can fill it.
Its the way society works.
I have no problem donating money to something that benefits me like this.
Currently, the state of lich is such that I can't just donate money and not have problems.

Maybe the sound bite analogy version will reach you better:

When I go to the grocery store to get food, it's reasonable for the clerk to expect money. When someone comes to LNet to get help, it's reasonable for me to expect them to have already put forth some effort and researched the problem and be willing to put forth more effort as you help them.

[Tillmen]

Is this considered core ?

http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?t=57686

That post slipped by me. Fixed now.

[Sam]

...I will never contribute anything to lich...


But you'll keep using it, and are sounding like one of these guys:


The majority of LNet users are gimme, gimme, mine, mine, now, now, now...

So all I can really think of is fuck off, guy. I suggest playing without Lich for a while, if it really needs so much work. I feel kinda bad for being irritated since your initial post, but you sound like too many assholes that I work with all day. I think I will have some coffee now, and help some people on LNet.

[Caetul]

I only use lich to replicate a psinet like enviornment since that is what I am comfortable with.

That includes: waggle, autosort, keepalive, grab, go2, narost, voodoo

And to replace the library lookup: useherb, metal, wood, ... etc

I have experimented with some of the other scripts available but decided that they are too complex or take away too much from the game for my enjoyment.

Is this considered core ?

http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?t=57686

I pretty much hailed from the same background. I was on Psinet years ago when I first played, and in coming back, was told and eventually learned that Lich surpassed it in terms of things I wanted to accomplish with scripts in the game.

Ones i use for the most part have been sloot, waggle, voodoo, go2, narost etc. I personally do not script hunt simply for my own reasoning. If it wasn't for that reasoning I'd likely use bigshot and make some custom scripts myself.

As it stands, there are those of us who are very thankful for those who do put in the time and effort to make scripts. And others who could care less.

Because of this, you'll find that some people who make scripts, don't publish them for everyone on the repolist for example, which is smart in a way. For those that do, they should be expected to hear whining from some, since I think those people view it as "Since it's public, you are just saying anyone can use it so I'm going to even if I have no idea how this game works internally". BEcause of that, you'll get those who think it's ok to bitch about something not working.

My only gripe was during the sloot debacle, since I'm a firm believer in "If it's not broke, why fix it?" But at the same time understood why it was being upgraded, alot of things inside the script were unneccessary and thus Spiffy made the changes. Only problem was, a vast majority of those who were using it saw it the same as me since it was working as intended, and when suddenly things starting ripping apart at the seams, thats when the uproar occured.

But as pointed out earlier, it's not so difficult to go back to the times without scripts like these for the most part. Problem is people got so used to them, they don't know anything else. Me personally, even if there were no scripts like there are now for this game, I'd still play the same and have as much enjoyment out of it. Thankfully, they exist though and do make things simpler and faster. Without them, everything can still be down the same way, you just need to spend more time doing it and entering more commands.

I don't speak for everyone, but I myself know I'm very thankful for those who put in the extra and (Unnecessary time) time spent by making these scripts for the public. Because in the end, no one has to do anything for anyone else but themselves, which is why they get frustrated with those who think they need to.

Durfin, Spiffy, Az, Gib and some others have been gracious enough to share their time with us, and I know some have shared help and advice with me privately as well. Some of us notice the effort and do appreciate it, while others who tend to be new at coding/programming/scripting may not seem to be since they haven't grasped it yet, but in time usually do.

[Das Uberdog]

Personally when I write a script I make a thread for it in this forum explaining the basic usage & such. I figure if someone has a problem they'll search the forums for the script name and that thread will pop up.

[Das Uberdog]

Lets be frank, I don't believe for a minute that scripts are uploaded to the repo for peace, love and kindess. They are uploaded for recognition. Lich isn't organized at all like an open source project where everyone works together for common goals. Its currently more like a middle school pissing contest.

Total B.S. in my opinion.

Do you write any scripts?

[Deathravin]

:( not on that list - guess I'm 'some others'.... makes me sad... To be fair, I've been fairly absent from the lichnet community since it psi-tard-splosion. One day I'll just release my entire library and gain a place in the coveted name-remembrance popularity contest.


ANYWAY - If Tillmen had JUST done the map database with go2, he would deserve supreme life-long recognition and a perpetual moratorium on complaints and bitchiness. But as it is he's completely remade lich, created narost, added GameObj, kept the spell-list up to date, re-made and hosted lichnet, and supported it all for years .... the list goes on and on and on... I have a lifetime subscription to the 'up Tillmens ass' coalition.


As for the repository scripts. I've never seen them as a "use this script" library. More of a starting point to making your own scripts. If there's a problem then try to fix it. If you can't, see if somebody has the time to point you in the right direction.


As for learning how to make a script... start off small and specific and work your way up. I started off with:
This = "stand"
fput This
This = "sit"
fput ThisIt took an entire day to realize the capital meant it was a Constant. I didn't have unlimited time and with each realization came a real sense of accomplishment.


personally, I have a txt file that contains a bunch of scripts that I use fairly often but don't feel the need to make a true-blue script out of.

;eq GameObj.loot.each { |looz| if looz.name !~ /#{$list_boxs.join('|')}/ ; fput "get ##{looz.id}" ; fput "put ##{looz.id} in barrel" ; end }
;eq this = GameObj.loot.find { |loo| loo.name =~ / (barrel|can|transcan)$/ } ; GameObj.loot.each { |looz| fput "_drag ##{looz.id} ##{this.id}" if looz.name !~ /#{$list_boxs.join('|')}/ }
;eq this = GameObj.inv.find { |loo| loo.name =~ /green suede satchel$/ } ; GameObj.loot.each { |looz| fput "_drag ##{looz.id} ##{this.id}" if looz.name =~ / scarab$/ }

;eq GameObj.inv.each { |ivvy| ivvy.contents.each { |conty| if conty.name =~ /#{$list_magk.join('|')}/ ; fput "get ##{conty.id}" ; fput "sell ##{conty.id}" ; fput "Put ##{GameObj.right_hand.id} in my mant" if GameObj.right_hand.name != "Empty" ; end } }
;eq GameObj.inv.each { |ivvy| ivvy.contents.each { |conty| if conty.name =~ /#{$list_scrl.join('|')}|gold ring$/ ; fput "get ##{conty.id}" ; fput "sell ##{conty.id}" ; fput "Put ##{GameObj.right_hand.id} in my pack" if GameObj.right_hand.name != "Empty" ; end } }
;eq GameObj.inv.each { |ivvy| ivvy.contents.each { |conty| if conty.name =~ / gold ring$/ ; fput "get ##{conty.id}" ; fput "sell ##{conty.id}" ; fput "Put ##{GameObj.right_hand.id} in my pack" if GameObj.right_hand.name != "Empty" ; end } }

;eq this = [] ; GameObj.inv.each { |ivvy| ivvy.contents.each { |conty| if conty.name =~ /#{$list_magk.join('|')}/ then this.push conty end } } ; this.each { |conty| fput "get ##{conty.id}" ; fput "sell ##{conty.id}" ; fput "Put ##{GameObj.right_hand.id} in my mant" if GameObj.right_hand.name != "Empty" }
;eq this = [] ; GameObj.inv.each { |ivvy| ivvy.contents.each { |conty| if conty.name =~ /#{$list_weap.join('|')}/ then this.push conty end } } ; this.each { |conty| fput "get ##{conty.id}" ; fput "sell ##{conty.id}" ; fput "Put ##{GameObj.right_hand.id} in my pack" if GameObj.right_hand.name != "Empty" ; fput "Put ##{GameObj.left_hand.id} in my pack" if GameObj.left_hand.name != "Empty" }
;eq this = [] ; GameObj.inv.each { |ivvy| ivvy.contents.each { |conty| if conty.name =~ /#{$list_armr.join('|')}/ then this.push conty end } } ; this.each { |conty| fput "get ##{conty.id}" ; fput "sell ##{conty.id}" ; fput "Put ##{GameObj.right_hand.id} in my pack" if GameObj.right_hand.name != "Empty" ; fput "Put ##{GameObj.left_hand.id} in my pack" if GameObj.left_hand.name != "Empty" ; fput "Put ##{GameObj.right_hand.id} in my mant" if GameObj.right_hand.name != "Empty" ; fput "Put ##{GameObj.left_hand.id} in my mant" if GameObj.left_hand.name != "Empty" }

;eq loop { ["get calipers", "lm meas box", "put cali on table", "get lock from table", "pick box with my lock", "put lock on table", "get calipers", "lm cali my cali", "give cali to Vigil"].each { |thing| fput thing ; waitrt? } }
;eq GameObj.inv.each { |ivvy| ivvy.contents.each { |conty| if conty.name =~ /lockpick$/ ; fput "get ##{conty.id}" ; fput "put ##{conty.id} in my cloak" ; end } }
;eq GameObj.right_hand.contents.each { |d| multifput "get ##{d.id}", "put ##{d.id} in locker" }

;eq GameObj.inv.each { |ivvy| ivvy.contents.each { |conty| fput "read ##{conty.id}" if conty.name =~ / #{$list_scrl.join('|')}$/ } }

;eq loop { wait_while { GameObj.loot.find { |n| n.name =~ /claidhmore/ }.nil? } ; fput "_drag ##{GameObj.loot.find { |n| n.name =~ /claidhmore/ }.id} ##{GameObj.inv.find { |n| n.name =~ /#{Lich.container_boxs1}/}.id}" }

;eq loop { fput "lm calibrate my calipers" ; waitrt? }
;eq ['order 1', 'buy', 'carve my block', 'carve my block', 'carve my wedge', 'carve my wedge', 'carve my wedge', 'rub my wedge', 'stow right'].each { |ff| fput ff ; wait_while { checkrt > 0 } ; pause("0.25s") }
;eq 7.times { ['get box', 'lm relock box', "give box to ##{GameObj.npcs[0].id}"].each { |ff| fput ff ; pause("0.25s") ; wait_while { checkrt > 0 } } }
;eq loop { multifput "prep 407", "cast ##{GameObj.right_hand.id}" ; waitcastrt? }
;eq 150.times { multifput "order 14", "buy", "put left in my pack" }

;eq
this = GameObj.loot.find { |loo| loo.name =~ / (barrel|can|transcan)$/ }
if this.nil?
GameObj.loot.each { |looz| fput "_drag ##{looz.id} ##{this.id}" if looz.name !~ /#{$list_boxs.join('|')}/ }

;eq [12, 14].each { |n| multifput "order #{n}", "buy", "put left in my black sat" }

Catalog
----------------------------------
1. copper lockpick
2. brass lockpick
3. steel lockpick
4. ivory lockpick
5. gold lockpick
6. silver lockpick
7. ora lockpick
8. mithril lockpick
9. glaes lockpick
10. laje lockpick
11. alum lockpick
12. rolaren lockpick
13. invar lockpick
14. kelyn lockpick
15. a green brocade locksmith's toolkit
16. a set of professional calipers

;eq GameObj['red velvet backpack'].contents.each { |n| fput "get ##{n.id}" ; pause("1s") ; fput "give Deepthroat" if GameObj.right_hand.id == n.id ; fput "give Deepthroat Left" if GameObj.left_hand.id == n.id ; waitfor "offers you" ; fput "accept" ; pause_script }
;eq ["an ivory-inlaid aquamarine ring", "a glittering ora circlet", "a princess-cut star ruby bracelet", "a plain star emerald band", "a malachite and beryl talisman", "a fine vultite awl-pike", "an old golvern aegis", "a yellow lor runestaff"].each { |n| GameObj.left_hand.contents.each { |y| if y.full_name =~ /#{n}/ ; fput "get ##{y.id}" ; fput "put ##{y.id} in my mantle" ; end } }
;eq ["an ivory-inlaid aquamarine ring", "a glittering ora circlet", "a princess-cut star ruby bracelet", "a plain star emerald band", "a malachite and beryl talisman", "a fine vultite awl-pike", "an old golvern aegis", "a yellow lor runestaff"].each { |n| GameObj.inv.each { |ivvy| ivvy.contents.each { |y| if y.full_name =~ /#{n}/ ; fput "get ##{y.id}" ; fput "put ##{y.id} in my mantle" ; end } } }

;eq GameObj.right_hand.contents.each { |n| respond n.full_name }

;eq [].each { |x| GameObj['locker'].contents.each { |n| if n.full_name =~ /#{x}/ then multifput "get ##{n.id} from locker", "put ##{n.id} in my mant" end } }
;eq fput "look in locker" ; pause("1s") ; this = [] ; GameObj['locker'].contents.each { |n| this.push n.full_name } ; respond this
;eq this = [] ; GameObj.inv.each { |ivvy| ivvy.contents.each { |conty| if conty.name =~ /#{$list_magk.join('|')}/ then this.push conty end } } ; this.each { |conty| fput "get ##{conty.id}" ; fput "Put ##{GameObj.right_hand.id} in my mantle" if GameObj.right_hand.name != "Empty" }
;eq this = [] ; GameObj['locker'].contents.each { |conty| if conty.name =~ /#{$list_magk.join('|')}/ then this.push conty end } ; this.each { |conty| fput "get ##{conty.id} from locker" ; fput "Put ##{GameObj.right_hand.id} in my mantle" if GameObj.right_hand.name != "Empty" }
;eq GameObj.inv.each { |ivvy| ivvy.contents.each { |d| multifput "get ##{d.id}", "put ##{d.id} in locker" } }


At any rate. If you don't want to code. That's fine. Shut the fuck up. If a coder has released a script and wants input on it, that's fine. Give them constructive criticism - most of the best features of my scripts came from somebody else's idea. But don't complain something doesn't work - if you want it to work, fix it. If you don't want to fix it - again, shut the fuck up.

[Deathravin]

Lets be frank, I don't believe for a minute that scripts are uploaded to the repo for peace, love and kindess. They are uploaded for recognition. Lich isn't organized at all like an open source project where everyone works together for common goals. Its currently more like a middle school pissing contest.

I don't believe that's most of the motivation. Personally I upload scripts I feel demonstrate a particular lich trick fairly well. I try to help people out to see how to do these things.

Uberbar is an excellent example showing how to add SF bars.
Uberbarwiz is a good example of GTK - but I think it's implemented very badly with poor coding techniques.

Or the progression of scripts

ActiveSpells showed how to add a window to SF.
UberSpells was written because ActiveSpells didn't show a timer bar, and 'inactivespells.lic' didn't properly show durations of non-stacking spells.


Personally I don't release most of my scripts because I don't feel they expand on the knowledge of Lich any. And some of them are just downright dangerous.

[phantasm]

The lich community is comprised of three groups:

1) Lich contributors
2) Lich users/non-scripters
3) Lich users/scripters

Group #1 is comprised pretty much of Tillmen. My mistake was in thinking that 3 was part of 1.

[Das Uberdog]

You best be trollin'

[Carl Spackler]

This seems to be the guiding force behind lich.
Its mission statement is "do it yourself and fuck off".


Boo Hoo, Wah Wah Wah ----- Really pal? Why are you using lich if you're so bitter towards the other users?

[Fallen]

Anything beyond the reproduction of services PSInet provided definitely falls within the realm of User Beware.

[DaCapn]

This seems to be the guiding force behind lich.
Its mission statement is "do it yourself and fuck off".

I guess what I'm asking is, are there any lich developers that are interested in supporting core scripts, having a bunch of people use their code, and listening to complaints/suggestions/comments from those users? Or is lich basically just a bunch of guys like Brute?

Just so you know, I ask for help quite a bit too. Every time I ask for help, I get good results because I follow the expected etiquette. People are so helpful. They continue to help after I've found my answer and I don't need help any more. People seem starving to help people that are willing to meet them half way.

Again, this behavior is bigger than lich. You'll find the experience to be nearly identical for every single help forum for free/open projects.


My only gripe was during the sloot debacle, since I'm a firm believer in "If it's not broke, why fix it?" But at the same time understood why it was being upgraded, alot of things inside the script were unneccessary and thus Spiffy made the changes. Only problem was, a vast majority of those who were using it saw it the same as me since it was working as intended, and when suddenly things starting ripping apart at the seams, thats when the uproar occured.

Here's another reason for people to employ a little DIY. People are always surprised when sloot breaks. I heard so many complaints one day that I downloaded sloot and I read the script. A couple statements in, you see this "check_for_updates" function being called. If you ignore the script header, you'll notice it right away. It's all by itself on one line. Every time sloot updated, it would cause conflicts of some kind for some people. Comment that line out or delete it and you don't have to worry about updates breaking sloot. I've recommended that and I've heard several people say that it works just fine. Just update manually when you've checked out the changes or... don't if you don't care to.

So many problems are that simple to fix but for one reason or another people don't bother to even see if it will be easy. I think it's more often that they just assume that they can't fix it.

[doughal]

Just for the record, there are those of us who are non-contributers who are very appreciative of the folks who upload scripts.

Without lich and the scripts on the repo, I would not be enjoying this game, I would likely have stopped playing again a few months after starting back up again (as I have done many times in the past).

Lich and the scripts on the repo have made my playing experience vastly more enjoyable than it otherwise would have been. So much so that I couldn't imagine playing the game without them anymore.

So from me and those like me, Thank you to everyone who has uploaded their scripts to the repo. It may be crowded and a bit disorganized, but I'd rather see that anyday than the opposite.

[phantasm]

I had to right click on child.rb today and hit "edit with scite". So now that I fixed it how to I contribute the fix.

[Tordane]

I had to right click on child.rb today and hit "edit with scite". So now that I fixed it how to I contribute the fix.

Well, considering what I think your talking about is the script titled child.lic, you can submit the change via a PC thread in the Lich forum or you can try and contact the author(~Catrania, et al) which is noted in the notes.

Only the script uploader is able to make modifications to that file on the repository. I wouldn't mind seeing this expanded at some point in the future to allow for more community based interaction.

[DaCapn]

Only the script uploader is able to make modifications to that file on the repository. I wouldn't mind seeing this expanded at some point in the future to allow for more community based interaction.

It would be cool to have a separate "fork repository" for modified scripts or re-releases of good scripts that don't work or the original author has moved on (search the fork repo for a script name, get a list of versions that people have uploaded with the timestamp of the original script that they worked on in addition to the timestamp of their upload). Maybe the official repo could have another column for number of versions on the fork repo. To be honest, though, other than a couple of scripts, I'd mostly just use it to save my own changes so I can get them later in case I update a script by accident or something. I couldn't see myself browsing it more than a couple of times. I'm sure some people would like it, though.

Another thing is that some people have scripts lingering on there that they want to take down but have lost they key to them. It's not really a problem I guess unless they moved development of the script to a new name. I think the current solution is to just bug Tillmen to take the script down. I don't know that there's a good solution unless one already exists with the LNet accounts.

[Caetul]

Well, considering what I think your talking about is the script titled child.lic, you can submit the change via a PC thread in the Lich forum or you can try and contact the author(~Catrania, et al) which is noted in the notes.

Only the script uploader is able to make modifications to that file on the repository. I wouldn't mind seeing this expanded at some point in the future to allow for more community based interaction.

Could always just rename it as something else, and upload it as a new one I think.

I may take a look at childgoto though over the weekend and try to see if i can perhaps fix that one, since I think child.lic only goes to a few of the guards in Towns? I could be wrong though since I used childgoto over anything else, but right now just use a simple script I made for them and GoS official tasks.

[Tordane]

Could always just rename it as something else, and upload it as a new one I think.

I may take a look at childgoto though over the weekend and try to see if i can perhaps fix that one, since I think child.lic only goes to a few of the guards in Towns? I could be wrong though since I used childgoto over anything else, but right now just use a simple script I made for them and GoS official tasks.

That is true. I didn't recommend this because this leads to our current problem of clusterfuck repository.

[Jace Solo]

I agree with DaCapn completely. I also admit that I am a pretty big script writing noob. I'm trying to pick it up where I can and with not a lot of time on my hands as it is I'm at the mercy of those that help out. And they generally do a ton!

I still haven't figured out the sloot thing but I've been tinkering with it for over a week now so it's almost time I asked. Thanks to Tillmen, Spiffy, Brute, CRB and all the other people that help out when we lesser beings have no clue. You are the reason I can still play this game and I appreciate it VERY much!

[Caetul]

That is true. I didn't recommend this because this leads to our current problem of clusterfuck repository.

The huge issue is, alot of scripts up there are old, and just need to be removed. But technically, i guess you'd need the creater's permission to do so...Which is a problem in itself if alot don't play.

[Deathravin]

I'd like to see a website designed and implemented that allowed a wiki-style approach to scripts. The ;repo script would read the release versions of the scripts and download them to a 'scripts\repository' folder. All updates to the scripts in the repository folder are automatically downloaded. However, don't get moved to use until approved by you ("Uberbar has been updated with the following comments - "changelog: fixed issue with green bars turning red" - do you want to replace the working copy?" yes - Uberbar has been updated live. etc)


Script is uploaded to the wiki by person A.
Person A always has access to update the script at any time.
Person B (fellow coder) comes in and makes a change to the script, it goes into a update status. Person A can approve the change, updating the script to the new code. He can disapprove the change, or disapprove it and effect a similar change in a different way.
Person C (non-coder) comes in and starts a change request ("it'd be nice if you could change the colors to whatever you wanted"). People can vote up or down the change request or comment on it or the script in general.


One can go in and read all the comments for all the scripts, and sort them. So you can find the most voted up changes, make the change to the script, attribute the change comment, the owner then approves it, closing the comment as resolved, or mark it resolved himself with his own code change (or mark it impossible, etc).


Any script inputted by a user who hasn't logged in for 90 days becomes public domain, able to be modified by consensus.
Updates made, instead of going to the creator to be approved, are approved by a 7 day vote by the people by an 80%+ majority, or Tillmen and select 'trusted officers' can just override and approve or make the change without voting.


You get different levels based on how often your code changes are accepted, declined, number of scripts uploaded, how often you update your own scripts and how highly your scripts are rated by the users.



so ya... it's some work to set it up, but it'd be cool once it was up and running. Somebody get on that. LOL

[phantasm]

I know you made this easy, but it must be pointed out:



At any rate. If you don't want to code. That's fine. Shut the fuck up. If you don't want to fix it - again, shut the fuck up.

[Gibreficul]

OOH, trolling... I'm in!

Reason to share scripts:

Because something can be gained by the script's author. I'm totally guilty, upickbot2 takes you right to where I'm pickbotting, when I'm pickbotting. grguild is only because there was no other way to get people to master the guild in Shattered so I can get master status eventually. <pokes>

Reason not to share scripts.

Because a few people are whiny, unappreciative, rude, vulgar, and stupid. The very worst of those being stupid. Bottom line, if you're asking someone something, you need something from them, ACT LIKE IT. You'll get better results that way.

There's a right way and a wrong way to ask someone about work they've done. There's also a right way and a wrong way to accept whatever answer you're given, even if it isn't the answer you wanted. No means no for reasons you might not understand. Special cases like scripted items or unique builds are often hard to account for in a script.

At bare minimum, you BETTER have read the script's comments that start the script. A lot of questions can be avoided that way. If it's a major script, it might have a thread here on the PC. Even still, a quick search to make sure never hurts. OH, and I wouldn't mention this if it didn't happen. If you're using a computer, you should know how to open a text editor, then find, open, change, and save a file with it.

From a writer's perspective, "instructions" are a pain in the ass, and a waste of time, a LOT of time. If you think the author of the script added those for their own benefit, you're rudely mistaken. So read them, and appreciate them.

Lastly, it is in no way anyone's obligation to share anything with anyone, including Tillmen. Appreciate that some people deal with the barrage of PMs, and IMs in order to provide better scripts for YOU. Appreciate the time between the writing and the testing and the researching, and debugging and the retesting that went into those scripts that you take for granted.

This is America, we speak English here, learn the language, or at least the basics.

This is Lich, we speak Ruby here, learn the language, or at least the basics.

[phantasm]

So 10 years later, now I am a software developer, and I must say I learned a lot in this thread about software, users and developers.