Ambush and TWC

[Logun]

Am thinking about a two weapon combat ambushing rogue and am curious if this is worth it over going shield. Does the off hand weapon also benefit from the ambush bonus when jumping out of hiding to attack?

The line of thinkig is that I have a greater chance of outright killing the creature should I not be able to kill it with the main hand weapon. Here is my training plan and would love the rogue community input:

50 ranks armor (chain)
2x one hand edge
2x two weapon combat
2x combat maneuvers
2x lockpick
2x disarm
2x ambush
2x stalk and hide
2x Dodge
2x Perception
1x Physical Fitness
15 Ranks of Harness Power
24 ranks climb
24 ranks swim

If the two weapon combat does not function as I think, then I will drop it in favor of 1x shield use and sprinkle points elswhere. Thanks for the input.

[DrZaius]

On my little rogue, I went from ranged, to TWC, to Blunt/Shield. I got myself killed the least with blunt/shield. That said, I got 404 super early, so it looks like you have significantly more points thrown around. My memory of what people said about TWC rogues in the past was the general wisdom was to get a flaring weapon and a weighted weapon; the flares stun it, then the weighted finishes it off. A lot of rogues use TWC, so I think if you give it a shot you'll be pleased with the results. When I was hunting my TWC rogue the hunts went super fast, but if I got stuck in RT when a monster wandered in I was in trouble.

-DrZ

[petroglyph]

Yes, the off-hand weapon also gets the ambushing bonus. I remember struggling some with DS in my late 20s and early 30s, but past that redux + chain makes minor nicks and scrapes pretty easy to shrug off. And there's always vanish. Or squeeze more dodge in.

If you're legging things and the first weapon severs the leg, the second weapon will default for a different location. If you aimed for the right leg, that's the left leg, which isn't much use if it's already prone. If you aimed for the left leg, that's the right hand. That's potentially more useful.

[Asha]

When I was hunting my TWC rogue the hunts went super fast, but if I got stuck in RT when a monster wandered in I was in trouble.

-DrZ

Cman Vanish :heart:

[DrZaius]

Yeah, but you can't get vanish until what, 22? This was before that I was having trouble. Also, I was doing blunt, so I was really tight on points.

-DrZ

[Rhovan]

I don't know how far you plan to take this build, but why invest the points into picking and disarming if you don't get 403 & 404?

[Archigeek]

Talk to Aubery. He's loving two-weapon ambushing.

[Ugotfaced]

twc fishspines. Ambushing= pwn!

[Logun]

I don't know how far you plan to take this build, but why invest the points into picking and disarming if you don't get 403 & 404?

Are 403 and 404 really necessary for picking? I just want the skills in order to self pick. In the old days 2x in these skills was more than adequate.

I want to avoid nulfiying redux by investing in spells.

[petroglyph]

If you don't want to pick up any spells at all, then why are you getting 15 ranks of Harness Power? Four or five should be plenty for CoL signs. Unless you're going Sunfist, save the points to grab some magic item use or scroll lore.

[Logun]

If you don't want to pick up any spells at all, then why are you getting 15 ranks of Harness Power? Four or five should be plenty for CoL signs. Unless you're going Sunfist, save the points to grab some magic item use or scroll lore.

Going sunfist, need at least 40 mana hence the dump in Harness. I wish I did not have to.

[Krayton]

You're better off with the lores and sacrificing a little bit of redux if you really want to pick your own boxes.

You'll be able to get by with 2x picking the boxes at lower levels, however at higher levels you would probably have to use a fixskills to train off picking and just utilizing the town smith or another player.

[Logun]

You're better off with the lores and sacrificing a little bit of redux if you really want to pick your own boxes.

You'll be able to get by with 2x picking the boxes at lower levels, however at higher levels you would probably have to use a fixskills to train off picking and just utilizing the town smith or another player.

Hmm things have changed a lot then, sounds like I really need lores to be able to pick. What a drag.

[DoctorUnne]

I've been a TWC ambusher all the way to cap and I love it. I think it's one of the more devastating combat builds, and the defense isn't shabby at all if you 3x dodge. Even 2x dodge is good enough with heavy armor.

[Logun]

I've been a TWC ambusher all the way to cap and I love it. I think it's one of the more devastating combat builds, and the defense isn't shabby at all if you 3x dodge. Even 2x dodge is good enough with heavy armor.

Excellent, I am going to be sticking with this then. I appreciate the feedback.

[Rhovan]

Just to mention it, you could learn 403 & 404 without any redux penalties once you have 80 trains.

I would also recommend 10 ranks of MOC. It helps when there are several critters in the room and Four quick swings never hurts.

[Gibreficul]

Just to mention it, you could learn 403 & 404 without any redux penalties once you have 80 trains.

I would also recommend 10 ranks of MOC. It helps when there are several critters in the room and Four quick swings never hurts.

I still only have 5 ranks MOC on Gibreficul for the second untargeted swing. It's a little bit of FoF defense, but not a full extra critter's worth. As a rogue, MOC ranks are just way too expensive for my tastes.

[Logun]

Just to mention it, you could learn 403 & 404 without any redux penalties once you have 80 trains.

I would also recommend 10 ranks of MOC. It helps when there are several critters in the room and Four quick swings never hurts.

I am planning 15 ranks of MOC but I am going to get into chain first. I have gone the Sunfist route so I will also be using strike in war camps.

[LMingrone]

I rolled up a Burghal Gnome TWC rogue just as a throw away character/picker. I ended up playing him more than my others because it's so damn fun. Even without being able to ambush heads and never getting into the armor type I wanted, hunting was normally pretty easy. I just aimed leg and than the second weapon would usually finish them off. Swarms were a little difficult, but nothing some CMANs and some imbeds didn't fix.

I really wanted to see how MOC + multistrike+ two coraesine weapons would work, but alas, I couldn't find two. I really wish TWC was around when I had my two coraesine shape shifters. :(

[GTG]

What kind of weapon combination's do most TWC users go for? Is dual wielding daggers viable?

[waywardgs]

What kind of weapon combination's do most TWC users go for? Is dual wielding daggers viable?

Sure is. Fun, too. Warriors run around with claidhs and talk about how amazing their crits are, but give me two daggers any day. You'll see more crit kills by a mile.

But then I went to archery and never looked back.

[Stretch]

If you can muster up 40 STR bonus (surge, spells, or race), ranged wins out over everything else.

TWC always felt like a waste to me, since most of the time you're going for one shot kills anyway.

[IorakeWarhammer]

i use 2 handaxes in Illoke and rule all

[Revial]

I wonder, can you wear full plate and successfully ambush and do all the other rogue tricks?

[Logun]

I am using a hcw hand axe main hand and 3 pound 7x superior falchion off hand. I have 6 second ambush rt. When I used dual hand axes I had a 7 second rt so went falchion offhand.

So far it works very well, I am critting stone giants like mad. I am in aug chain now but I see plate as a must by lvl 70. I am lvl 52 now.

[DoctorUnne]

I am using a hcw hand axe main hand and 3 pound 7x superior falchion off hand. I have 6 second ambush rt. When I used dual hand axes I had a 7 second rt so went falchion offhand.

So far it works very well, I am critting stone giants like mad. I am in aug chain now but I see plate as a must by lvl 70. I am lvl 52 now.

The RT difference is a function of your falchion being 3 lbs, not it being a falchion. If you had a 3 lb handaxe in your off hand you would have the 6 second RT also. Using a heavier weapon in your off hand can impose RT penalties above the base RT.