Mace vs. Morning Star

[DrZaius]

Good morning everyone,

I was just curious from a mechanical perspective which people thought were superior. I'm looking to craft my own perfect weapon, so I'm interested in crunching the numbers on these two weapon types. This if for a Paladin, so I'll also have the DF bonus from 1605 as well, and will likely be open-aiming, meaning that the puncture portion of the morning star is a significant factor in the decision.

In terms of AvDs, the Mace is inferior against Cloth (by 2), Inferior against Leather (by ~2), Better against Scale (by 1), Equal against Chain, and Inferior against Plate (by 1), making the AvD score 3-1-1 in favor of the Morning Star.

DF Comparisons (DF x 6% Bonus of Perfect Weapon x 10% Bonus of 1605)
Mace vs. Cloth 0.4664
Morning Star vs. Cloth 0.49555
Mace vs. Leather 0.3498
Morning Star vs. Leather 0.37895
Mace vs. Scale 0.26235
Morning Star vs. Scale 0.32065
Mace vs. Chain 0.2915
Morning Star vs. Chain 0.3498
Mace vs. Plate 0.2098
Morning Star vs. Plate 0.26235


With just that comparison, the Morning Star (while slower) seems mechanically advantageous, which is why I am curious what other people think. Are the puncture crits really a problem, or are morning stars just as beastly as they appear?

[Fallen]

The only time I have heard people prefering the mace is for ambushing from hiding for the crush only crits.

[Sam]

It depends quite a bit on what you plan to hunt. If your character lives near the landing, a lot of the best non-undead stuff is made of stone for levels 45-90 or so. Punctures against illoke will make you frown.

[RichardCranium]

Morning star, especially if you're hunting undead.

[Carl Spackler]

Craft the morning star... if you ever feel you need a mace, buy a cheap one 4x one

[DrZaius]

Another option I suppose would be to train in the cman precision and use the morning star; but that would take up valuable CM points, as well as not help with open aiming (since precision doesn't affect the ambush verb). I take it that creatures made out of stone are at least puncture resistant.

[Fallen]

Another option I suppose would be to train in the cman precision and use the morning star; but that would take up valuable CM points, as well as not help with open aiming (since precision doesn't affect the ambush verb). I take it that creatures made out of stone are at least puncture resistant.

I see that as a waste of CMAN points, but to each their own. I think the added damage you would be doing with the star is more than enough to make up for the occasional randomized non-crit kill from open aiming. Honestly, though, I would take the advice offered in this thread and get both. A 4x+ mace shouldn't be too hard to get. For all the times when it isn't suitable, whip out your Perfect forged Spike Star and go to town.

[Danical]

It depends quite a bit on what you plan to hunt. If your character lives near the landing, a lot of the best non-undead stuff is made of stone for levels 45-90 or so. Punctures against illoke will make you frown.

Illoke are in chain equivalent and don't appear to have any resistance to puncture; I was able to rip through them with arrows to the eye. It's the things in plate that are the real bitch.

Although, I would bet they have at least some crit padding.

[DrZaius]

I see that as a waste of CMAN points, but to each their own. I think the added damage you would be doing with the star is more than enough to make up for the occasional randomized non-crit kill from open aiming. Honestly, though, I would take the advice offered in this thread and get both. A 4x+ mace shouldn't be too hard to get. For all the times when it isn't suitable, whip out your Perfect forged Spike Star and go to town.

Yeah, I've already got an ancient enruned eonoke mace; but obviously I want to pick a perfect weapon to 1625, and it sounds like the general consensus is a star.

[Fallen]

If I ever rolled a one-handed weapon user, he would be using a Morning Star.

[Danical]

Yeah, I've already got an ancient enruned eonoke mace; but obviously I want to pick a perfect weapon to 1625, and it sounds like the general consensus is a star.

False Dichotomy!

Go maul or go home!

[Sam]

Oh! By illoke I meant stone stuff.. trolls and mastiffs at least are puncture resistant, right? I would guess maybe krynches as well, but my only experience is watching others try to puncture stuff back when it was actually immune to punctures.

Best option: THW (maul)
Or do like most everyone else said and put all your time/money/effort into a morning star, with a 4x or 5x mace for backup.

[DrZaius]

False Dichotomy!

Go maul or go home!

Heh, I would, but I'm doing a blunt/board build. I'll probably make a perfect maul for a friend of mine though. Is RR the only place I can get star glyphs?

[Danical]

Oh! By illoke I meant stone stuff.. trolls and mastiffs at least are puncture resistant, right? I would guess maybe krynches as well, but my only experience is watching others try to puncture stuff back when it was actually immune to punctures.

Best option: THW (maul)
Or do like most everyone else said and put all your time/money/effort into a morning star, with a 4x or 5x mace for backup.

Plate Creatures: Elementals, Mastiffs, Stone Trolls, Kyrnches.

Arrows are shit vs plate, although, falchions are just as bad.

[Latrinsorm]

If you can hit hard enough, you can get guaranteed crit kills with a mace. Open aiming probably won't let you hit hard enough, though, so go with the morning star.

[Riltus]

The morning star has a crush/punture ratio of either 5:3 or 2:1 I'm not quite sure, but it definitely favors crush.

Mark

[RichardCranium]

1605 + morning star = ok

[WRoss]

Speaking of morning stars, I used to own a 5 or 6x VHCW sancted star. It was like 30lbs, but still an amazing weapon. Anyone know where that is now?

[Danical]

The morning star has a crush/punture ratio of either 5:3 or 2:1 I'm not quite sure, but it definitely favors crush.

Mark

I thought it was 66% crush and 33% puncture (2:1)?

Are steel golems still immune to punctures? Could find out pretty quickly.

Either way, still pretty good.

[Caetul]

Heh, I would, but I'm doing a blunt/board build. I'll probably make a perfect maul for a friend of mine though. Is RR the only place I can get star glyphs?

I used to use THW on most my toons, but opted to go for TWC on the new Paladin.

It's a fun treat to watch him pummel thru shit left and right, but as most Paladin's know, training as it is a real pain in the ass normally, even more so for builds that are like this.

Although I've found the best route for myself to go while using Two Morning Stars, the only thing I'm lacking in as of now is Lore, Perception Ranks, Obligatory Ambushing if I plan on open ambushing down the road and of course other silly secondary stuff like climbing/swimming. Although I find no need for neither right now since I don't have to worry about needing alot of ranks to swim or climb anywhere (Ala Nelemar), and if I find myself do having the need to climb somewhere....That is when Sigil of Resolve comes in.

Training Plan is as follows as it stands, at level 12. (Trained for 13)

Two Weapon Combat..................| 114 28
Armor Use..........................| 114 28
Combat Maneuvers...................| 66 14
Blunt Weapons......................| 114 28
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 25 5
Physical Fitness...................| 114 28
Dodging............................| 66 14
Harness Power......................| 50 10

Spell Lists
Minor Spirit.......................| 3

Spell Lists
Paladin............................| 7