Subdue + Silent Strike

[DaCapn]

Anyone currently using subdue with three ranks of silent strike to stay hidden (who care to share opinions on it)? I'm currently thinking about working this in with a ranged build (have surge, smastery, and mobility mastered, two ranks of evade mastery). Obviously silent strike would be otherwise useless. Just thought it would be fun and might help with getting an AS advantage against creatures in plate.

[DrZaius]

I'm considering adding subdue to my Rogue, since he uses OHB, but I haven't gotten enough cman points. I think it's generally considered the "worst" of the rogue guild skills (or maybe just because it needs blunts to be effective it's rare), so I don't think there are a lot of rogues who use it.

[DaCapn]

No. I've done it with a dagger. And when you're mastered you can do it empty-handed. Also, you should be using a blackjack if you're not mastered. With the silent strike change, it's easily better than sweep.

[dacatchman]

I personally don't have this, but a capped Rogue I know does.

She can wack you upside the head all day long and stay hidden.

It's crazy effective.

[Caetul]

No. I've done it with a dagger. And when you're mastered you can do it empty-handed. Also, you should be using a blackjack if you're not mastered. With the silent strike change, it's easily better than sweep.

What Silent Strike change are you referring to?

[DaCapn]

What Silent Strike change are you referring to?

I suppose the best way to say it was "with the silent strike augmentation." Each sentence in that post refers to subdue.

[Asha]

Stick to sweep for low stam cost.

[Blushy]

My rogue has 5 ranks of Silent Strike and is mastered in Subdue through the guild. Here are the relative merits as I see them:

It doesn't require a blunt weapon, but gets a bonus with a dagger (and I think an extra bonus with a blackjack, but I've never tried it out).

A strong success can cause the target to kneel or go prone entirely depending on it's stance when hit. Kneeling + stunned is a better DS reduction than prone alone, but standing + stunned (the result of a weak success) is not as good, nor is it as safe, as critters knocked over by sweep generally (although not always) spend an action getting up before attacking, whereas a critter recovering from a stun can attack right away without warning. This is the main reason why I don't use subdue more often--I'm not as sure about my temporal margin of safety.

A super-high success can also impart a Bind-like (paralyzed) state, although in my experience this doesn't happen much in like-level hunting.

Then there's the staying hidden--it's helpful because it protects you from danger, and lines you up for your next shot more quickly, but at the same time more or less requires your next attack to be with the dagger or blackjack you just used (unless you're TWC or single-OHE/B without a shield), which may or may not be a problem for you. Also, like everything, it's not 100% reliable.

I still tend to prefer Sweep. Subdue can be quicker and uberer when it works, but in my experience Sweep, although slower, is safer and more reliable. If I hunted in a group or with a zillion spells, this might be different.

[Danical]

IIRC, the biggest problem I had with subdue was the fact that I couldn't get large or huge creatures with it on my half-elf, and couldn't hit shit with my halfling. At that point, kneebash with a black jack was pretty damned effective.

The only problem is god damned plate mobs.

[Gibreficul]

Remember, subdue activates weapon flares now too. Crazy good times with silentstrike.

[Danical]

Remember, subdue activates weapon flares now too. Crazy good times with silentstrike.

What sucks is that I don't think "knockout" flares actually work in conjunction with subdue. I _think_ that was still standing which is weird since knockout flares debuted after the CML update.

Or, at least, they didn't for a while!?