Punishment for Children

[GSLeloo]

So I can hear my dad on the phone with his friend Larry. Larry is like 50+, drunk, childless, wifeless, basically a loser. He talks about how when he was a kid his father made him pull off his pants(Larry's) to beat him with a belt. And Larry said he liked it.

Then Larry begins to tell my father that he was too soft on my brother and I, that my father should have beat us. My dad says that's not how it works, he talks to us and that is how problems are solved. Larry tells my dad that my brother and I will be running wild through the streets.

So... Larry the childless man is telling a father of two how to punish a child. The questions is do you believe it is right to physically punish a child when it is wrong?

[Kitsun]

Umm...

I was raised to believe that people(read children) should be reasoned with. However there is a point where children can build up a brick wall of snotiness and thats where the line is drawn.

Used as a last resort, not a quickfix.

[Latrinsorm]

Running wild through the streets is nowhere near as fun as it sounds. :(

I don't think physical punishment took place anywhere in my family as far back as my grandparents. We all turned out basically fine. So I stick with what works.

[GSLeloo]

My father was never hit but his father did yell at him, that was how it went. My father has never yelled at me or hit me. He has always spoken to me on an adult level and treated me with respect. I could never imagine him screaming at me and even spanking me. I have never in my life been spanked. I wanted to tell Larry to shut the fuck up cause he's an old bastard that's never had kids. But that would be the PMS talking...

I am more obediant than most kids I know and have never run wild. I can do whatever I want, I have no curfew, I have no boundaries set by my parents so I have set them for myself instead.

[Bobmuhthol]

Children should be beaten whether or not they've done something wrong.

[Tsa`ah]

And you should be beaten more than most.

[Snapp]

Sounds like two different extremes you're talking about here Leloo. From being beaten, to having total freedom. I don't agree with either of them. I got a "smack" when I did something wrong as a child, but never any beatings. Don't let what this Larry guy said bother you in the least.. just look at him.

[GSLeloo]

Oh I know. I'd like to see Larry try to beat me, I'd kick his drunk ass. My dad just refuses to tell him off cause the last time he did that was to his cousin Mickey (who was making crude comments about me) and two weeks later Mickey died.

I don't think it's bad to give a child freedom. My father let me do what I want, my mom always said no. Once I reached like 15 my mom gave up and relaxed (got two tattoos) and then we got along a lot better. I just honestly think hitting a child is wrong. It's barbaric.

[Xcalibur]

Anti-beating on children.

Children remember too often the slap rather than the meaning of it.

[Artha]

I'll tell you one thing...I was spanked, my sister was not. She's 13 and has been to juvie twice and has had over 100 hours of community service. She smokes and drinks, and will probably get knocked up and have someone's illegitimate child by the time she's 16.

Juxtapositioned with myself, I'd have to say spanking's more effective than talking.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<I'd kick his drunk ass.>>

Most people that say things like that over the internet are weak at best.

Now if you actually did it, I'd care.

[Snapp]

I don't agree with giving a child total freedom... A lot of times they end up running the streets or on drugs or knocked up.. etc. You have to set some boundaries or I think you'd just be asking for trouble. I look back now and am thankful my parents did.

[Ravenstorm]

There's a huge difference between a swat, a spanking and a beating. The latter is abuse. The first is not. The second depends on the extent and force involved.

It should never be the punishment of choice but sometimes it's called for.

Raven

[i remember halloween]

the fear of being beaten is much worse than the actual beating.

spare the rod spoil the child.

[GSLeloo]

Oh he meant my father laying me on the bed, removing his belt, and beating me with it.

And I have considered taking kickboxing classes but I have enough strength as is to hurt him. Even if I couldn't knock him out, I have long enough nails to remove several layers of skin and a knee to get him in the nuts.

[Bobmuhthol]

I can't wait until some chick tries something on me.

POW!

Dumb bitches need to learn they're no match for men.

[GSLeloo]

My fathers two cousins David and Mickey were both beaten as kids and they hated their parents for it. Absolutely hated them. By the time they had Robert they stopped it and denied ever beating the two older boys. I don't learn through violence. If someone was violent with me I'd learn how to resent them, how to feel pain, and how to cover up bruises. The way my father raised me I learned how to limit myself, I learned respect for him for being so amazing and I learned how to just be myself. I don't drink or smoke or stay out at all hours of the night, I am responsible because I choose to be. I was given the freedom to choose who I wanted to be rather than be beaten into a person.

[Artha]

Beating is bad. Spanking or a swat on the head when the kid does something wrong is good.

[Nakiro]

Originally posted by i remember halloween
the fear of being beaten is much worse than the actual beating.


Absolutely.

If you ever hit a child in any way or to any degree, make sure it is entirely clear that you are showing the upmost control, and use the least amount of force necessary.

Striking a child out of anger, while angry, or after appearing angry ruins the bond of trust that child needs to form with its parents in order to mature emotionally.

I hate my dad because he'd slap me around. But more than the pain, I hated his total and utter incontrol. He did not know how to treat children like children, only little adults that he was free to bruise if they acted up.

There's tons of information about why you shoudln't hit a child, and good parenting will always leave parents with alternative methods of discipline.

On another note, after the divorce of my parents ( I've lived with my mom), I was, for the most part, a free-reign kid. I had babysitters (my brother too), but we kept after ourselves a lot more than most people are age. I didn't mind it, and in the end I think it taught me a lot more responsbility and respect than any spanking ever could've.

[GSLeloo]

I agree with you Nakiro. Being left to basically make the decisions myself I did learn more control and I learned what was right to me personally. I had more respect for my father for talking to me and trying to actually sort out what was wrong than hitting me and leaving me to be too scared to do anything wrong.

[AnticorRifling]

Pain retains.

You tell a kid don't touch the stove it's hot he/she might listen. Let the kid touch the stove and I promise he/she won't do it again.

Tell a kid don't hit your sister(example here) and he might listen. Tell a kid don't hit your sister and when he does light him up, he won't be doing it again anytime soon.

I personally believe in physical reinforcement of rules. People today are too damn soft and wonder why we are raising a generation of sissies. I'm sorry but if more kids got their asses tattooed with handprints you would have fewer disrespectful punk ass teenagers running around.

I know I sound like some old coot but damnit I was that teenager that respected adults and it drove me nuts to listen to some of my friends talk to strangers like clerks or waiters. I got my manners from my parents and when I was disrespectful I was punished, sometimes that punishment was physical and guess what the pain retained. I learned my lesson and I learned it well. Sure it made me pissed off at my dad until I reached a point when I understood the reason behind the punishment.

Am I saying beat your kid until he/she is hospitalized? No. I'm saying don't be afraid to light your kid up once and awhile. You know that count to three shit. Get over here you have until 3... 1, 2, and the kid starts moving to make it by 3. Well try this. You have until the count of three 1, whack. Don't sit there when I say move you move. Keeps kids on their toes and teaches them not to test your authority.

[GSLeloo]

That's just you though. I am so respectful to everyone, my parents included. I don't give anyone respect without earning it but at the same time I don't treat anyone beneath what I expect to be treated. I am always nice to waiters and always give them big tips because I do respect what they are doing and they don't need to get an attitude.

I was never hit and for that I think I turned out to be a pretty good person.

[AnticorRifling]

This will piss alot of people off but....


You're a girl. That's different. I don't see girls getting hit more like getting grounded. Sure it might be a sexist remark and a duality in judgement but that's me. Boys need hit or they grow up soft. I know someone is going to shred this into some "You knuckle dragging, low browed, SOB blah blah" kind of post but it's not. Or it is, hell I don't know. My brother and I got spanked when we did something stupid and I don't see a problem with it. Spankings don't create serial killers, spankings don't make for emotially scarred kids, spankings are a wakeup call.

Hell my high school still had wooden paddles. I got paddled in 9th grade for something stupid. Did it hurt? Hell yes it was a WOODEN PADDLE, did I cry or feel traumatized? No. But it reminded me that teachers are in charge and I had to pretend to care.

Don't break your kid's bones but don't be scared to put a red mark on they ass!

[SpunGirl]

I don't think it's right to use physical punishment for children when they do something wrong. The most effective punishment my parents could devise for me was to take away something I liked - no going outside with friends for a week, no books for a week (yes, this was a punishment), or later on, no phone for a week or making me spend all weekend pulling weeds or something equally sucky.

Having said that, sometimes young kids need a swat on the ass to get their attention. Sometimes there is just no reasoning with children that age when they fly into a tantrum, and they need a smack. But I disagree with using it to make children "fear" their parents.

I know I have a smart mouth, and there was one time when I was 14 that my mom had had enough, and she slapped me (on the face). It certainly got my attention, but I also know she regrets doing that to this day.

-K

[Kitsun]

Leloo, it worked for you and that is terrific. But you'll have to grant that no one is exactly like you. People learn in different ways. Sometimes it takes not-nice ways to enforce learning.

I don't think anyone here is into child beating(besides Bob).

But because you turned out fine because of your upbringing does not make it a universal truth.

There is no ending to the amount of snot nosed kids aged 10-25 i just want to beat the shit out of. The way I see it is this:

Give em a couple whacks as a kid and save them a royal ass whooping when their old and acting like a dick.

[Nakiro]

Originally posted by AnticorRifling
Am I saying beat your kid until he/she is hospitalized? No. I'm saying don't be afraid to light your kid up once and awhile. You know that count to three shit. Get over here you have until 3... 1, 2, and the kid starts moving to make it by 3. Well try this. You have until the count of three 1, whack. Don't sit there when I say move you move. Keeps kids on their toes and teaches them not to test your authority.

HAHAHAH you sound just like my asshole father with that count to three bullshit.

I hope you don't deploy this stragedy on your children, if you have any. It does not work.

Where do you see a generation of sissies?

[Ambrosia]

It actually depends on the child and what they learn from. Just like school, some people learn from seeing it done, some people learn from doing and others learn by hearing.

If you take a child who has a short attention span, he or she is going to zone out while you're lecturing them. If you take your hand and swat their ass, they won't zone out, and they will hear what you say.

Take a sensitive child who is deathly afraid of getting spanked, all you have to do is mearly raise your voice a tad to get your point across.

Then of course, there are kids, like me, which no amount of spanking or yelling is going to get through their head. Those are the rebel children, they are the ones that have to touch the stove to learn.

[Snapp]

Have to agree with Anticor to a degree. Male and female children are very different.. how did your parents raising work with your brother(s) Leloo? Different kids need different things, some kids are able to be more free, others needs a swift smack on the ass once in a while.

[TheEschaton]

Me and my sister were spanked, and we turned out pretty well. Here's my philosophy on it:

1) You should never beat your kids hard enough to leave a mark that lasts more than 5 minutes.

2) If you decide to use corporal punishment:
a) It cannot be just a "swatting" because that shows a lack of committment to the punishment.
b) It should always be done in a controlled manner.
c) It should always be illustrated clearly why the kid is getting the smack.
and d) It should always be followed up with a statement to this effect: "It hurts me to do this more than it physically hurts you, but I did it because you need to learn your boundaries. It is because I love you that I did this." Maybe not so cheesy, but the positive reinforcement afterwards is key, your kid shouldn't be pissed at you after you administer a spanking.
Oh, and last but not least:
e) Don't do it past the age of 10.

-TheE-

bullshit it shouldn't be after then. If your 11 year old is a fucking prick then you should give him a taste of what will happen when he tries that shit at a bar when hes 22.

[Knights Templar]

I think more kids should have had the shit beaten out of them by their parents. Kids are like animals, and all they understand is pain. Grounding doesn't work. Whenever my parents used to ground me, I'd just find a way around it. What's the big deal anyways? More grounding, big fucking deal. Now when I knew my dad was going to beat the shit out of me, that's when I didn't do stupid stuff.

In conclusion, I have determined that kids do stupid shit because of the lack of, or lack of fear of their parents. Your kid better love and respect you, as well as fear you. If a kid has no fear of you, they'll walk all over you.

[Nakiro]

A question, but if spanking works, why do you have to spank a child more than a few times?

Really?

[TheEschaton]

The hope, Ranger, is that by 11, they'd know what the fuck is going on. I only put that guideline in, because after 10, kids can (and do) start to think on their own, and if you keep smacking them, they're gonna start thinking "My parents don't love me." and they'll call into question that parent's love. Such a thing should never be up for question.

-TheE-

Ask the kid.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by AnticorRifling
I know I sound like some old coot but damnit I was that teenager that respected adults and it drove me nuts to listen to some of my friends talk to strangers like clerks or waiters. I got my manners from my parents and when I was disrespectful I was punished, sometimes that punishment was physical and guess what the pain retained. I learned my lesson and I learned it well.Hey guess what, I'm just as polite as you are/were, and I never got touched. Hot damn.

Oh, and Omens, I never shot anybody.

Originally posted by TheEschaton
The hope, Ranger, is that by 11, they'd know what the fuck is going on. I only put that guideline in, because after 10, kids can (and do) start to think on their own, and if you keep smacking them, they're gonna start thinking "My parents don't love me." and they'll call into question that parent's love. Such a thing should never be up for question.

-TheE-

That is why you need positive reinforcement as well.

Your also a hippy.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by RangerD1
Your also a hippy. I still haven't shot anybody. :P

[TheEschaton]

A question, but if spanking works, why do you have to spank a child more than a few times?

Really?


Cause timeouts and "talking to kids" really works on the first time, right?

Kids cannot be reasoned with before the age of 10.

-TheE-

[Nakiro]

Originally posted by TheEschaton


A question, but if spanking works, why do you have to spank a child more than a few times?

Really?


Cause timeouts and "talking to kids" really works on the first time, right?

Kids cannot be reasoned with before the age of 10.

-TheE-

No, but they can be disciplined without resorting to violence.

[Nakiro]

A few more questions that came to mind.

If you spank/slap/hit your children as Anticor describes, what would you do if...

They came home from school after being in a fight?

Or

Hit you or your spouse while resisting being hit?


And lastly, some claim that those who don't hit their kids have no control over their children. I'll admit, there are definitely weak backboned parents who DO NOT control their children. BUT there are other parents who do manage to discipline their children without resorting to hitting.

My question is, if the most effective way you have of punishing your child is hitting them, how much control do you actually have over them? Shouldn't you have some way to control something else that they care about other than their own safety?

If you do, why aren't you using that as a method to discipline your children?

If you don't, how can you possibly be in control of their lives?

If he was in a fight I'd find out if he started it and if so, unless it was justified (like someone bullying him) i'd beat his ass. If he didn't start the fight and lost. I'd beat his ass for losing.


If you don't, how can you possibly be in control of their lives?

You can never really be in control of someone unless you control what they want, or control what they don't want. A kid wasn' tto be a kid and thus a little prick, but he doesn't want to be smacked in the head. Therefore, if you make it known that acting like a prick will result in a smack in the head, then they are far less likely to act like a prick. Its called negative reinforcement. Now, its also important to use positive reinforcement when they do things that you want. Which is another aspect to it. You can't just indiscriminately discipline your kid because you had a bad day or something. They have to know that your discipling them has nothing to do with any sort of hatred but rather out of love to see them act right. You should also take care that you don't publicly humiliate them.l

[Nakiro]

You should have some control over the things they do like to do. If you don't, you're not in control of your kid and hitting them is just lazy ass parenting.

[Souzy]

Originally posted by GSLeloo
So I can hear my dad on the phone with his friend Larry. Larry is like 50+, drunk, childless, wifeless, basically a loser.

That's why Larry will stay old and alone. Beating a child = child abuse. But, you can reprimand your child, just don't beat them senseless.

Edit to add: American kids have it too easy.

[Edited on 4-19-2004 by Lalana]

Originally posted by Nakiro
You should have some control over the things they do like to do. If you don't, you're not in control of your kid and hitting them is just lazy ass parenting.

Whatever the fuck you wanna beleive man. Don't project your bad experiences.

Some kids are naturally hard headed and if you tell them they can't do ____ then chances are they'll find something else to keep them occupied or whine and cry or bitch until they get what they want.

For the record, i had an abusive pops who fucked me up in alot of ways and the last time we talked i broke his jaw. That doesn't mean that some poeple don't deserve a smack upside the head every once and a while.

[Souzy]

Hmmm...some kids had it easy growing up, some kids didn't. I don't consent with beating a child. But, at a certain age if I tell them no and they do it again and again, I will however slap their tail. My neices and nephews have it easy compared to how my siblings and I had it. Actually, I had it better then my older bro's and sisters. They use to get their asses beat by my parents, and I mean beat. We're all raised to respect our parents and our elders. I would never raise my voice at my older sisters or brothers, nor would I do that to my parents or talk back to them. I remember I did that once and my dad punched me in the face, like 10 times. What did I do? I didn't cry or fight back, but I took it. Anyway, I came out okay. :smilegrin:

Would I ever hit my child? Yes, only to discipline them. Would I beat my child? No. Some parents take it way too far, which leads to abuse. Now that...I don't condone.

In certain countries, teachers are allowed to hit their students for disciplinary actions. Stop arguing about it. Ya'll have it good here.

[Shari]

After many a broken wooden spoons, my brother and I were each delt our very own plastic tupperwear spoons with our NAMES written on them.

I recall only being belted, once. I don't even remember if it was my mom or dad (likely my dad) but I think they felt so guilty about it the spoon idea was used.

I didn't vote because there isn't a set belief I have. There is a difference between spanking a kid and beating one. Beating a child, you should be arrested for.

I fully agree that children need to be reasoned with first, and if that doesn't work out, a smack on the ass is in order. Most times you don't even have to whack them that hard because the action enough is enough to make them stop their irrational behavior.

Some of you know the issue with my boyfriend's nephew. He's out of control, throws hard objects like golfballs, rocks and the like at people, and thinks its funny. He also likes to torment my dog when he's at our house. His mother makes NO attempt to discipline him EVER and the only time he is disciplined is by his father. And guess what? He acts like the best little kid when he's only around his dad, with his mother...you's swear she spawned him with the devil himself.

My point is, when and if I have children, if they are out of control they will get a smack on the ass. I'm assuming by the time they are 10 they will have figured out how the rules of the house work and behave. If not, phone, tv, etc will be banned. And if they're doing this in a public place, I will wait to get home and then deliver punishment in an orderly fashion.

[SpunGirl]

You're right about that, Lalana. Or even better than it was 25 or 30 years ago.

My Dad told me that they had a paddle at his catholic school with holes it in that they used to swat kids when they got out of line. I said, "why the holes, Dad?" He said, "So the paddle will go faster, less resistance, and smack harder."

Now that's just twisted.... aerodynamically engineered paddles!?!?

-K

[Nakiro]

Originally posted by RangerD1

Originally posted by Nakiro
You should have some control over the things they do like to do. If you don't, you're not in control of your kid and hitting them is just lazy ass parenting.

Whatever the fuck you wanna beleive man. Don't project your bad experiences.

Some kids are naturally hard headed and if you tell them they can't do ____ then chances are they'll find something else to keep them occupied or whine and cry or bitch until they get what they want.

I'm not projecting anything.

I'm saying if you have to beat someone to get them to listen to you, obviously you have no control over them; not having control (or atleast, no control other than physical punishment) over a child is just bad parenting. This includes those who DON'T hit their kids, but don't know how to discipline them either.

Originally posted by Nakiro

Originally posted by RangerD1

Originally posted by Nakiro
You should have some control over the things they do like to do. If you don't, you're not in control of your kid and hitting them is just lazy ass parenting.

Whatever the fuck you wanna beleive man. Don't project your bad experiences.

Some kids are naturally hard headed and if you tell them they can't do ____ then chances are they'll find something else to keep them occupied or whine and cry or bitch until they get what they want.

I'm not projecting anything.

I'm saying if you have to beat someone to get them to listen to you, obviously you have no control over them; not having control (or atleast, no control other than physical punishment) over a child is just bad parenting. This includes those who DON'T hit their kids, but don't know how to discipline them either.

Just to clarify. I'm not condoning a full grown up beat down.

but regardles. Think what you will man. You've obviously not dealt with alot of children, let alone people.

Hopefully whenever you have kids they aren't the ones going FUCK YOU COCKSUCKER I FUCKING HATE YOU in the mall.

[Shari]

Originally posted by SpunGirl
You're right about that, Lalana. Or even better than it was 25 or 30 years ago.

My Dad told me that they had a paddle at his catholic school with holes it in that they used to swat kids when they got out of line. I said, "why the holes, Dad?" He said, "So the paddle will go faster, less resistance, and smack harder."

Now that's just twisted.... aerodynamically engineered paddles!?!?

-K

I can beat that.

My best friend's dad made his own paddle from an old cutting board and then carved it so it had a handle, and the words "With Love" engraved on it BACKWARDS so that way after you were hit it would spell it out the right way with your welts.

I think it was ever used. Thinking how hard you would have to be hit to get welts was fear enough to keep them relatively in order.

[Scott]

Yelling and talking too work with some kids, others on the other hand need a good beating with a belt.

My parents never laid a hand on me, even though I probably deserved it sometimes.

[Shari]

Edited because for some reason I quoted what I just posted.:?:

Weird.

[Edited on 4-19-2004 by Jesae]

[Souzy]

Originally posted by SpunGirl
Now that's just twisted.... aerodynamically engineered paddles!?!?

-K

ROFL! Yeah, I know exactly what paddle you're talking about. Back in those days, skipping school was prolly considered being a rebel. Instead of teachers hitting the kids, now kids are hitting the teachers. Everything is out of control in now. My brothers tell me how their teachers use to hit them in front of the class. I was raised in the US, so I never had to go through that. :D

[Mint]

I won't be hitting my future children to disipline them. Maybe because I was not hit. I don't know what my views would be if I had been. I do think I turned out okay and wasnt a big pain in the butt to raise. I guess, from reading this thread, a persons views on corporal punishment really does depend on how you were punished as a child and whether you turned out okay. Of course, some might say 'in spite of' while others might say 'because of' getting spanked as a child.

[Scott]

I have a question for the people who say "I'll never hit my children" or something to that effect. I mean thats fine, I think it's great if you can keep your kids in line without hitting someone. However what about the kids that are just so crazy that they scream, hit you, etc. I've seen several times where a parent was trying to yell at them and discipline them only to watch the child swear at them, hit them, and threaten them. How do you plan on dealing with that if that ever comes up?

[Souzy]

Originally posted by Gemstone101
My parents never laid a hand on me, even though I probably deserved it sometimes.

Mmyes you did. You evil spawn of satan. :D

And Jes that's funny stuff. :lol:

[Tendarian]

I can count on one hand how many times my parents physically punished me and it was all before 10 years old. I think sometimes a physical punishment in needed for younger children especially if they are really putting themselves in danger and just to young to know. Once your kid is a teenager though i dont think its such a good thing. This being because they are old enough to reason with(if not at the time,then later) and because teens are really aggrevating sometimes(trust me i know) and i could see it getting out of control easily.

[Mint]

Originally posted by Gemstone101
I have a question for the people who say "I'll never hit my children" or something to that effect. I mean thats fine, I think it's great if you can keep your kids in line without hitting someone. However what about the kids that are just so crazy that they scream, hit you, etc. I've seen several times where a parent was trying to yell at them and discipline them only to watch the child swear at them, hit them, and threaten them. How do you plan on dealing with that if that ever comes up?

I plan on letting my husband be the disiplinarian (sp?). That way I can be the 'good' parent. Heh. I have no idea how I would handle that if it happened to me actually. Cry a lot? Not a clue.

[Ambrosia]

You can't honestly say if you will or wont spank your children if you don't have any. You don't know if you will or wont yet because the situation has not arised. You can plan not to spank them, but start tossing in variables like a two year old that wont listen when you try to reason with them. Or a three year old that destroys everything and when you try to tell them that it's wrong they go off day dreaming, or doing the same thing you just punished them for five minutes later. Or like Sintik said, a child that threatens, hits or swears at you when you're trying to disclipline then without spanking them. I guess if you never plan on spanking your child, you should just hope you have a really good child that pays attention everytime you speak.

[Scott]

Originally posted by Lalana

Originally posted by Gemstone101
My parents never laid a hand on me, even though I probably deserved it sometimes.

Mmyes you did. You evil spawn of satan. :D

And Jes that's funny stuff. :lol:

I was always nice to my parents. My friends parents always loved me too because I was nice and polite around them. What they didn't know didn't hurt them. :smilegrin: Luckily I never got caught at what I was doing and never got arrested.

I'd probably be in prison if it wasn't for a guy introducing me to boxing and then got me involved into some mixed martial art clubs where I made some good money. I worked really hard at it which kept my mind of other things. Then I realized, well hell, if I can do this, I might as well start doing something productive. From there I got through college and will probably get a PHD soon. Now I get to look back and say "damn I was stupid."

[Mint]

Originally posted by Ambrosia
You can't honestly say if you will or wont spank your children if you don't have any. You don't know if you will or wont yet because the situation has not arised. You can plan not to spank them, but start tossing in variables like a two year old that wont listen when you try to reason with them. Or a three year old that destroys everything and when you try to tell them that it's wrong they go off day dreaming, or doing the same thing you just punished them for five minutes later. Or like Sintik said, a child that threatens, hits or swears at you when you're trying to disclipline then without spanking them. I guess if you never plan on spanking your child, you should just hope you have a really good child that pays attention everytime you speak.

Yes, I can honestly say I will not be striking my child/ren. Please do not think because someone has no children that they have no ideas on how they will be raising them. It worked with me and my sisters. It worked with my parents and their parents. Love had far more to do with it than luck.

[Rowi]

I have 4 children...........3 older ones are boys! so..........





:flamed::moon:

it takes a whack now and again................never beat my kids ever though............talking helps sometimes but so does talking
about what they did wrong then a shift kick in the butt.

[Sean]

I was generally good. I got probably got a handful of spanking in my life time. After 2 or 3 I kinda just got the idea and didn't wanna deal with it so when shed threaten I'd just give in. However eventually I got big and that no longer was a course of action.

[Rowi]

the 1-2-3 concept works for younger children......when your children look at you and finish with 3.............well, its time to move on. Spanking isnt something i do an a daily basis, you woulda have to really down something bad.......


My parents never spanked me much, talked to me mostly....but I got tagged now and again. when I spent all my paper routes money in a arcade once and my dad found out he had to pay 300 dollars, well that was my first adn LAST real ass beating!

[FinisWolf]

You know, my fiance'e and I were just talking about this topic, and I may have to change my vote from never, to get a club.

Our daughter is a year younger then Bob, and if she ever talks (even in chats or forums) like Bob does here, I would have to beat on her for awhile with a club.

Finiswolf

[Anailea]

Originally posted by Gemstone101
I have a question for the people who say "I'll never hit my children" or something to that effect. I mean thats fine, I think it's great if you can keep your kids in line without hitting someone. However what about the kids that are just so crazy that they scream, hit you, etc. I've seen several times where a parent was trying to yell at them and discipline them only to watch the child swear at them, hit them, and threaten them. How do you plan on dealing with that if that ever comes up?

These kids have lacked discipline their entire lives, that is what is wrong with them. Therefore, I know that my children will NEVER behave like that.

Anailea

[Warriorbird]

I was only spanked a couple times... for very serious offenses. I think that made the punishment take on a lot more value in my eyes, and me more obedient to actual "talkings to."

[Souzy]

Originally posted by Gemstone101
I have a question for the people who say "I'll never hit my children" or something to that effect. I mean thats fine, I think it's great if you can keep your kids in line without hitting someone. However what about the kids that are just so crazy that they scream, hit you, etc. I've seen several times where a parent was trying to yell at them and discipline them only to watch the child swear at them, hit them, and threaten them. How do you plan on dealing with that if that ever comes up?

Whoa...I just caught that one. You know what, my ex's baby cousin does that to his dad and mom. He's 13 now I think, about 2 years younger from my older nephews. He acted exactly like that around his father or my ex fiance, I wanted to slap the child. I mean, he would tell his dad he's so stupid, or call his dad an asshole, even to his older cousin (my ex). They spoiled that kid to death. He'd whine for shit all the God damn time. The thing is my ex's side, all the kids are spoiled and they have no respect for anyone. Had he been my nephew or cousin, I would've slapped him across the face if he ever called me a bitch or even heard him call his parents an asshole. My bro's and sister's would actually slapped thieir kids on the mouth if they ever heard that coming out of it.

I will say this over and over to anyone, cos I look at all these teenagers now. I am so glad my neices and nephews were taught at a young age how to respect others. They're too old to get spanked now, but I talk to them. Thier parents yell at them though. I love being the cool auntie cos they tell me what's on their mind. I spoil them, take them out, return them, yell at them, then they forgive me cos I'm cool like that. Well, that's what they tell me anyway. :cool:

Ugh, I love my little babies. All the others are satan's spawn. :bleh:

Edit to make this even longer.

[Edited on 4-19-2004 by Lalana]

[Tsa`ah]

I received three, punishment type, spankings before the age of 16.

Once in first grade for not listening to the teacher and doodling on some paper. Those holes ... damn.

Once in 7th grade for not listening to the teacher and doodling on some paper. Again with the holes.

And once in the 10th grade by my father for re-enacting John Bender's "give me another detention" scene. Leather is worse than wood.

Aside from those three sets of swattings punishment was always in the form of work. Get a D on the report card, scoop some horse stalls. Get in a fight, paint the barn. Come home drunk, up at 4am the next morning for a full day of painting, scooping, mowing, bailing, and fence mending.

Ranger and Anticor both have made valid points about today's youth. By and by they are greatly disrespectful, obnoxious, and one day in for a world of hurt.

As a society we have this mamby pampy attitude about "abuse". Parents don't to discipline their children physically because it's been beat into our heads that this is abusive and our children are going to grow up to despise us. We're going to screw up our children forever if we beat them and they'll grow up to be deadbeats.

Another aspect of this is the mass amount of coverage we get about add and adhd. From 1st grade to my senior year I knew 2 kids on Ritalin. 2 kids, that's it. My eldest who is in 2nd grade has 5 kids in her class on Ritalin or some other add/hd med.

Parents don't want to do their jobs and teachers don't want to do their jobs. So lets drug the kids because they are all hyperactive.

I have spanked my eldest one time. She came home in the first grade with a note from the teacher that stated she was uncooperative and verbally combative. I asked my girl about it and she got lippy. I told her to go to her room and sit on her bed until dinner and to think about why she was being punished. She talked back and refused to accept her punishment. The smacks on her rear and she hasn't done it since.

I'm sorry, sometimes it's necessary like it or not.

There was an episode of South Park that if followed would put Ritalin manufacturers out of work.

Damned funny and damned true, click here (http://www.southparkstudios.com/down/download.html?file=/media/video/404/sp404_sitdown.rm)

Dialup beware.

[MPSorc]

well i have seen it both ways on both sides, i have seen children that were not physically punished turn out pretty good and others went pretty rotten, i have also seen those that were physically punished (me) turn out pretty good, and others that turned into resentful haters or very timid pacifists.

so all in all i think punishment for children is all about compromise, and should go hand in hand with rewards, with my daughter she does get spankings, but not everytime she does something wrong, now that she is old enough to comprehend what we tell her we often tell her what she is doing is wrong and she shouldn't do it, if she persists or gets snotty she might get something a little more harsh like time out or no TV or sent to her room, throws a fit after that its a spanking and she usually won't test us any more on that particular thing for a while he he, with children its all about testing their limits, feeling the water, and exploration, if you don't give them any room, they will grow up and not have the ambition to try anything and be afraid of everything new. but as i said earlier, Reward is just as important as Punishment if not more so, my wife and I strive to show my little Raeli how much we are proud of her for doing a good thing, learning something new, or being a good lil helper. although im not there with her, i know my wife is doing a great job with her all alone, and we discuss how Raeli is doing everytime we talk, i am very interested in her life, and i want to be involved in her life as much as i can.

well thats leaning a bit off topic at the end so ill stop, summarize, punishment is important, but so is Reward, and both require subtleness and variation to be effective.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

For a child raised in a "spankfree" house Leloo, you sure have a lot of hatred built up. In this thread alone I love reading how you'd claw and knee and beat your uncle's ass.

Maybe is your father had actually disciplined you, you'd have a little more respect for others?

As far as always talking to you as an adult, sorry, I don't buy it. Four year olds don't understand adult concepts, like money, and work and such. We call them CHILDREN for a reason, not young adults.

[Miss X]

My Mother never ever got angry enough to lay a hand on my Sister and I. I know from conversations with her now that I am an adult that she said she always felt sick at the thought of physically hurting her children and therefore never did it. We have both turned out fine. Our punishments were basically being grounded or having fun stuff taken away and really, there were times I'd rather have had a smack than not been able to go out and play! I guess that means her philosophy on discipline worked for us.

My other Sister and Brother who live with my Father were smacked by him a lot and they are so fucking bratty and annoying. I don't blame it on the smacking alone but I think that the fact that they feared him in that way has affected them. My father hit me once, for no real reason and I will never forget my Mothers reaction. She made sure he NEVER dared hurt me again.

Over here in England it's illegal to hit children in public and pretty soon I expect it will be banned completely. I will be very happy when that day comes. When I see someone shouting and smacking their kid in shops etc I feel pretty disgusted, it's not right at all in my opinion. Having said that though, I don't claim to be any authority on child discipline, every parent has their own way of dealing with things however I can say with 100% confidence that I will never physically hurt my children intentionally. It's just not something I would ever consider.

[Praefection]

Interesting thoughts about this subjest. I know I was beaten as a child, when I was young. Before the age of seven before my mother left my dad and moved us to Montana. It was the belt, spoons and so forth.

But after she left my dad it was like... no type of discipline. I have lots of issues but partly I think it's due to her not being there as a parent. Talking to me didn't help but the few times I did get slapped on the mouth was enough to make me think twice about it.

I don't plan on having kids but I think it really depends on the child and how they're raised. Parents who play an active role in their kids lives are probably more likely to get by with talking. the occasional swat on the rump.

Parents who are never around their kids would most likely have to resort to beating the holy shit out of them. I know since my mother wasn't around I toned her out and that was that.

My best friend has two girls. Aged three and a year and a half. The oldest is a little snot, she's spoiled rotten and when she was younger (a bit better now) she HAD no form of discipline. My friend would do something and then back down to seconds later to coddle the child. To me that spells bad news, her daughter will be growing up thinking she can get away with anything with no punishment to follow. I can see it now even.

I think setting rules, and STICKING by them at the very start will go a long way in having your child respect you. BUt not being scared to spank your child too shows that you're the parent and you're the authority figure. I know a lot of parents who want to be their child's friend instead of a parent. Being friends comes later. Be an parent first.

Yes, I am for the occasional spanking.
No, do not beat your child black and blue.

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Miss X
Over here in England it's illegal to hit children in public and pretty soon I expect it will be banned completely.

No it isnt. It is lawful for a parent to use "reasonable physical chastisement" i.e. smacking, to discipline their children - in public or in private. If the child is injured in the process, it goes beyond "reasonable" and becomes an assault, therefore unlawful.

I think more people frown on smacking in public than they did in the past, because more people realise it's stupid to do so.

It is unlawful for people in state schools and childminders etc, to use smacking as a form of discipline, but I think public schools still can (they are weird anyways).

My own point of view is that smacking teaches kids tolerance to pain, it teaches them that big people can use force to get little people to do or not do things. It doesnt teach respect and it doesnt teach the point that is ultimately being taught.

No smacking does not = no discipline and discilpine that is violence free is truly based upon respect and much more likely to achieve the ends people seek.

[Edited on 4-19-2004 by Nieninque]

[Miss X]

Ah, my bad. I thought the European court of Human Rights had dropped the 'reasonable chastisement' thing in 1998 after that guy got away with beating the hell out of his kid because of it. :(

[Wezas]

I was spanked as a kid. Usually not unless I did something pretty bad.

I don't believe in beating your kids, that's just wrong. If you beat the kids, you'll be too tired to beat your wife.

[Weedmage Princess]

I'm against "beating" as in..excessive force...I won't pick up something and beat my son with it til I see blood.

However, I'm all for spanking--or on occassion (depending on how bad the action that warranted the punishment is) something a bit more forceful.

You have some wackos who like to douse their children with water then beat them with wires, turn on the burners on the stove and burn their hands, burn them with cigarettes, etc. And while yes that is horribly wrong and these people should be subjected to the same sort of treatment repeatedly until they're maimed...it gets some others (usually people who don't have kids of their own) to overreact and think that all forms of physical discipline should not be allowed...which is wrong. Time outs and a "stern talking to" does nothing. My step-grandad was a very, very intimidating man. War vet, big and overall scary...when he spoke, everyone listened. However, he was beaten (severely) as a child...so he was really against spanking...and when I was a little girl, boy did I have a field day with him. I was never truly disrespectful but I knew at the end of the day with him, what *I* said went, and I ran the show there. Now my mother...she beat my ass. She by no means abused me, but I knew and had a healthy fear of the belt, the slipper and getting popped across the mouth. She was the law, and I dare not step out of line with her. Now, if she prescribed to my step-grandfather's theory of discipline..I have to wonder how I would have turned out.

[Atlanteax]

There should be some sort of physical punishment (usually along the lines of a spanking) to drive home the point of "no, do NOT do that".

If it goes overboard into the physical beating level, the parents lost self-control, and instead of being detered from doing "it" again (fear of physical punishment) the child ends up resenting the parent instead, which ultimately contributes to further family problems.

Ideally, the child is someone the parent can talk to and expect to listen... and there will be times that some physical punishment may be involved.

However, it can be rather counter-productive if the physical punishment goes overboard, which is a risk with an understandly very ticked off parent.

Obviously there is a consenus that there should be no beatings allowed. But again, some limited form of physical punishment should be allowed, and at times may be necessary.

.

Sometimes, I think that the teachers/counselors of a school should be able to exercise some form of limited phyiscal punishment on very problematic students, instead of having their hands helplessly tied-up when the problematic students interfers with the learning experience of other students.
I find it ironic in these sort of circumstances, that the parents who normally doesn't care that their child is being a problem in school (and obviously not being helpful in retifying the situation with the administration), suddenly cares if someone else tries to discipline said child.

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Atlanteax
Sometimes, I think that the teachers/counselors of a school should be able to exercise some form of limited phyiscal punishment on very problematic students, instead of having their hands helplessly tied-up when the problematic students interfers with the learning experience of other students.


My Typing teacher in high school would smack our hands with a ruler she carried around if she saw us watching our fingers or the screen instead of the paper we were reading from. Fairfax County Public School, circa 1994

[DianaBanana]

I work with kids in an after-school program. Let me tell you, some of these kids need someone to spank them at home cause they are out of control. I'm all for spanking, I'm totally against a beating. But just saying NO isnt always enough.

[DeV]

I see nothing wrong with a child getting spanked, or smacked upside the head. Some kids need that form of punishment and some don't. Some can be put in time out, or grounded and that works, but others need physical reinforcement. I do not in any way condone beating a child, thats considered abuse no matter how you look at it. There is definitely a fine line that should never be crossed.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

:scared: I'm with Vold on this one :worship:

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Tsa`ah
Ranger and Anticor both have made valid points about today's youth. By and by they are greatly disrespectful, obnoxious, and one day in for a world of hurt. Nostalgia's great, isn't it.

[Nakiro]

Originally posted by Gemstone101
I have a question for the people who say "I'll never hit my children" or something to that effect. I mean thats fine, I think it's great if you can keep your kids in line without hitting someone. However what about the kids that are just so crazy that they scream, hit you, etc. I've seen several times where a parent was trying to yell at them and discipline them only to watch the child swear at them, hit them, and threaten them. How do you plan on dealing with that if that ever comes up?

I will control what my kids like, and when they act up, I will take it away.

Free time, dessert, allowance, privilages, etc.

If they become physical with me, I'll restrain them physically, but won't hit them.

If they swear, I'll isolate them in their room, or someplace equally safe.

Ta'sha example of how he spanked his child is something that I think would be okay, because he sounds like he did it in a very controled manor.

[AnticorRifling]

Physical wounds heal. The emotional scars of depravasion due to you(the parent that's afraid to spank a child) of a key item in a kid's youth will last much, much longer. Oww I got hit, I won't do that again. Hey all I said was poop and they took my nintendo I'll show them by starting a wicked smack habit!

You see the difference.

[Nakiro]

Originally posted by AnticorRifling
Physical wounds heal. The emotional scars of depravasion due to you(the parent that's afraid to spank a child) of a key item in a kid's youth will last much, much longer. Oww I got hit, I won't do that again. Hey all I said was poop and they took my nintendo I'll show them by starting a wicked smack habit!

You see the difference.

Yah except its generally the other way around. Kids are more likely to retailate to physical punishment than loss of privilages.

[DeV]

Thats why both forms of punishment are needed more often than not. Physical, monetary and material punishment works best depending on the situation. Physcal-spanking, Monetary-no allowance, material-privledges taken away(no tv, video games, computer), or time out.

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by DianaBanana
I work with kids in an after-school program. Let me tell you, some of these kids need someone to spank them at home cause they are out of control. I'm all for spanking, I'm totally against a beating. But just saying NO isnt always enough.

Depends how you say it.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<Our daughter is a year younger then Bob, and if she ever talks (even in chats or forums) like Bob does here, I would have to beat on her for awhile with a club.>>

lmao. My parents never denied me access of anything, minus drugs. If they watched a movie, I'd be right there watching it with them.

Needless to say, I got a grasp of the "real world" very quickly. I've never been spanked, but my father occasionally gives me a nice smack in the head or a punch in the arm. My parents know I'm not retarded enough to run away, hang out with idiots that think they run the town at the age of 12, do drugs (yet), or go to school with a gun. Things are working out very well so far, and my language is far from unbelievable.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Do you respect your parents Bob? Do you talk to them like the Ozborns or the Osmonds?

Just curious.

[Bobmuhthol]

I respect my parents, but obviously with a habit of swearing, a few slip out. They don't mind as much now that I'm not six.

[TheEschaton]

I went to Catholic school, and I had an ex-nun for a teacher (ex-nun? WTF do you have to do to be an EX-nun?) who had a paddle hanging on the side of the blackboard. She's never used it, as far as I've heard, but it's there. She did have a thing against messy desks, and would pick the desk up over her head and dump the contents on the floor if it was messy enough, and force the kid to clean it. Once, this kid Donald's desk was so packed nothing fell out when she overturned it.

She was also one of my best teachers.

-TheE-

[Sweets]

It is a fine line but I agree with the majority. A smack on the butt sometimes is the only way to curb the behavior. However, most children I have dealt with usually do listen to reason. Fancy that, kids have brains. :)

My father yelled or ignored you. I still can't get close to him to this day. The fear he will clam up and reject me at any given moment cools my emotions towards him. He never once hit me. My Mom used to threaten me with a HUGE wooden spoon hanging on the wall. That was very effective. She was always very calm. Very rarely yelled. If she did, you knew you did something VERY wrong. Hopefully I will be able to raise Justin with her same common sense.

I miss my mom.