Smart merchanting or plain old scam?

[Adhara]

This has been bothering me for a long time. It consists of selling an item sold off the shelves in every day shops for a substantial profit.

I will give for example, the worst offender of this I have come across. I am sure she does it on the amunet too but my examples are taken from Cleodelia's auction website (and therefore she couldn't deny doing this).

This list includes some current open auctions and some closed in the recent past.

bodice sold in Solhaven 10k listed at 50k
sundress sold in Icemule 8.5k listed at 50k
another sundress sold in Icemule for 8.5k listed at 50k
split skirt sold in Solhaven for 10k listed at 50k
boots sold in solhaven for less than 10k listed at 100k (repeated many times)
other pair of boots in Solhaven for 10k listed at 40k
leggings sold in Illistim for 5k listed at 10k
pants sold at the landing rogue guild for less than 5k listed at 30k
gown sold in solhaven 15k listed 40k
ballgown sold in Solhaven 15k listed at 50k
matching gloves sold in Solhaven 2.5k listed at 15k
other gloves and slippers sold in the same place listed at 15k

Get the idea? Ok. Now you might think "hey this person bought it for her personal use and later is trying to make some money while getting rid of it," which wouldn't be too bad. But no! Look at the thigh-high boots example. This item is very popular among the ladies (it is also incidentally the most outrageously overpriced of her items) and the same pair of boots has been sold many times! So did she have 5 pairs of idential boots in her locker? I think not. My main problem with this is that this chick can list the items sold in the shops *without buying them* and IF they sell on Cleo's she goes to pick it up before turning around and selling it for 5x-10x what she paid for. There is NO risk on her part.

So I ask you, is this smart merchanting (too bad for the buyers who don't know what's available in the lands) or is it a plain ole scam?

In my efforts to rid Elanthia of such a practice, I will include two excellent links covering every day shopping in the lands.

http://www.gsgather.com/csshops.html

http://home.kc.rr.com/gemstone/shopping.html

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Fools and their money are soon parted. Good merchanting I suppose, but will build a bad rep. Hurts her in the long run, much like Idiothm's poor merchant decisions have lasting effects.

[Trinitis]

Hrm, it bothers me too..but I say if the people are gonna pay, boo on them.

The only ones I DON'T agree with, is the rogue items from the guilds being sold for profit..because ONLY rogues have access to these, and thats people taking advantage of it.

There is another person on that site (I saw last night..) selling a satchel from the icemule clothing shop for about 15x the normal cost.

-Adredrin

[JustMe]

Heh, I know exactly who you're talking about too, and yes, she's money hungry. VERY money hungry.

[DCSL]

I can't believe that anyone would fall for this crap. I'd like to slap her and anyone that falls for it.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Who is it? I don't pay attention enough to petty shop items to know, but would like to know who the person is.

[Trinitis]

Originally posted by JustMe
Heh, I know exactly who you're talking about too, and yes, she's money hungry. VERY money hungry.

Hmm..but if she is making money, I guess it works. heh

-Adredrin

[Edaarin]

Heh when I was like 13 irl I used to sell gold rings from the gemcutter's for 4k. That character didn't last too long.

But meh, while it's sort of lame it isn't killing anyone. I'd rather pay an extra 25k than walk to Solhaven.

[Adhara]

At least if it was said "from the Solhaven clothing store" the person knows they can choose between getting it themselves or paying more without having to go.

As for who the person is, I am not sure I want to name her. This little trick is not all she does. She also sells some other stuff and while most of it is outrageously overpriced, there are few decent deals in the lot. If you keep an eye open you will eventually notice because she does it a LOT but hey... if this can be an eye opener for her then there is hope.

[Edited on 10-24-2003 by Adhara]

[JustMe]

I don't think she reads these boards because she never said anything to defend herself before, although I'm sure someone could pass the link along....

[Caramia]

When I see people doing that openly, like on the amulet or when I am standing there, I just speak up and tell people where they can find it for cheaper. If she doesn't like me doing that, too bad. Those who are lazy and don't wanna make the trip to Solhaven or Ta'Vaalor will pay.

[FireSonata]

Gemstone isn't a popularity contest. You don't gain levels because everyone likes you. Some people like to merchant. They drive prices up on things that can be gotten cheaper. So what? People are lazy and don't often want to walk all over the game to get a satchel. If Dominoes brings the pizza to your door and you pay them 5-10 bucks more than a microwavable Digiorno is anyone going to care? If they really care they'll go pick up the pizza themselves or pop that Digiorno in the oven. If not, they'll pay. And Dominoes has more cash in their pockets. Does it hurt YOU? Does it hurt the store the item was gotten from?

Personally, I think that this method was very smart of the merchant in question. Its no different than what any European merchants did in the 15 and 1600's when they transported goods from distant lands and sold them in their own countries for inflated prices. So what if English people could have just mosied on over to France and picked up some perfume. We're they going to do it? No. Are people in Gemstone going to do it? Probably not or they'd already know that the stuff this lady is selling already exists cheaper in other stores.

The only way what this woman is doing could be considered scamming is if the person 1. Lied and said that an icemule satchel was a god auction, raffle, or altered item. 2. Held 500 pounds when it only held two eyelashes and a dead worm. 3. Sold an item that had limited uses without saying so.

Its not wrong to sell ANY item and name your own price as long as you give all the important statistical information and don't LIE about it. You own it, you can set the price. Afterall, items are only worth what people are willing to pay for them

Let he who has never sold anything at a profit cast the first chocolate covered pretzel.

Good Evening To You All,
The Fire's Song

PS: Caveat Emptor.

[FireSonata]

I'm not sure what the stats on normal Siren Scale is so I'm not sure what your point is.

If you mean that Siren Scale was sold with a natural enchant of 5x and yours somehow lost that, then not telling that is as bad as not telling people that an invisibility cloak crumbles (which I believe was point three of what I said I would consider scamming-- 3. Sold an item that had limited uses without saying so.) . Or selling someone a car without an engine. That is a scam. You're playing on people's popularly known knowledge that is usually a fact and taking advantage of it for your own gain.

Anyway, this is nowhere near the same thing as not telling people where your goods are FROM. Do you ask your grocery store where they got their chickens? Do you ask them if they got their potatoes at a farm nearby where you could possibly pick your own for less? Do you make your own twinkies cause you know you can make them cheaper? Do you ask your shoe store what country your shoes came from? If someone sells a gold ring on the net for 5k and the got it at the caravansary for 4k does anyone ever need to say where they got it? Does it change anything about what the item DOES? You can almost always find any item cheaper somewhere in Gemstone if you're willing to wait. If you're not, pay the price the person offered; test the item before the sale if you really want to.

Like the song says "my momma told me: 'You gotta shop around.'"

Good Evening To You All,
The Fire's Song

[theotherjohn]

if the item is bought in the east (EN) and sold in the west (landing) or vice versa then I dont see any problem at all for markups

[StrayRogue]

Its stupidity of the buyer as well as dishonesty of the seller. While I am all for selling items off the rack from the likes of Ebons, Anfelt etc, for a huge profit, I find it insulting to do the same for easily available items.

[Betheny]

A lot of times, if there's an item that I want but can't get (say I'm too young to go to EN, or whatever) I'm willing to pay the inflated price to save myself the trouble.

[Betheny]

Yeah, people should know. Definetely. But they never will. Sometimes, the seller doesn't even know. Bards can find out where items were purchased, ya?

[JustMe]

No, just price.

[Soulpieced]

Yes, the value that bards get was the original price the item sold for a the merchant.

[Jolena]

I have to say I am with theotherjohn on this one.. if it's from another city then the one you are buying it from..I dont see a problem with the markup. Also I have no problem with rogues selling guild items for profit. They are lighter normally and usually pocketed. Personally.. I feel it's good merchanting skills. People are not forced into buying an item. Nowhere does it say to disclose where you got it from. I don't have a problem with someone saying Hey I saw that cheaper at a shop somewhere.. I think that's fine as well. It's all up to the buyer and the seller really. As long as the true stats and such of the items they are selling are disclosed (ie pocketed, weight, etc) then the seller has done his or her obligation and is fine in my books.

[Savaard]

I dont think FireSonata could have said it any better...

[Morstanya]

Fire did state things pretty well.

Not once in my life have I ever bought anything without asking where it was from. If the person doesn't know that's fine, but 95% of the time they do. It's buyer beware in GS and if you don't ask where something is from, then you must not care all that much. Tough cookies if you get ripped off.

Morstanya, the White Witch

[AnticorRifling]

I only buy from people I know. If it's an item I have questions about I will take those questions to a third party source(often friends of mine that are way more into merchanting than me)

I have no problem paying a premium if it's an item I want and will get alot of use out of. Now selling me something from a shop in another town will piss me off. I don't memorize the wares of every shop in every town but if you're up front about where it came from I'll probably pay a bit more than what it costs to purchase at the shop.

[Sumone]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Its stupidity of the buyer as well as dishonesty of the seller. While I am all for selling items off the rack from the likes of Ebons, Anfelt etc, for a huge profit, I find it insulting to do the same for easily available items.

What dishonesty? It's not the merchant's job or duty to inform the buyer where they might get a better deal. How often do you go to the grocery store and see a sign stating there are lower prices around the corner?

You might be surprised to learn that many stores buy supplies from the same place you can buy from. Take independent gas stations in my area as an example. They buy from Sam's Club and mark the items up.

It's called capitalism and is a much better system than communism. She has the freedom and right to sell her products for whatever price she wishes. The buyer has the freedom to accept the price or look for a better deal.

There is no dishonesty. She's not lying about the product.

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by Sumone
How often do you go to the grocery store and see a sign stating there are lower prices around the corner?



Quite often. In fact, if I find cheaper prices elsewhere, they will refund me double the difference.

[Edaarin]

It isn't dishonesty, but it isn't exactly the most up front merchanting ever. Reputation is everything. I've sold over 70 million worth to one person alone in a three week span, and also gave her some advice on dispensing another 60. I'm hardly the first authority on merchanting, but generally happy customers keep coming back for more

[Sumone]

Originally posted by StrayRogue

Originally posted by Sumone
How often do you go to the grocery store and see a sign stating there are lower prices around the corner?



I'd like to know where you shop then. I have never walked into say a Krogers and seen a sign saying "Our price .59/lb. Their price .49/lb." I have seen it the other way around, but I have never seen any store publicly announce their prices are higher than the competition.

Quite often. In fact, if I find cheaper prices elsewhere, they will refund me double the difference.

[StrayRogue]

It must just be my backwards ass country here then *shrug*

[BroVod]

Hmmm, ya price gauging stuff that is commonly sold and easily attainable should be illegal....where is the amunet constable? We shoudl be able to go to the constable and accuse people of shoddy merchanting...gibes us nicer and better merchants a bad rap......

[Warriorbird]

I think the GMs should stay out of "scamming" in GS or DR. Buyer beware...it's as much a theft tactic as any.