An Idea for Punishment for Evil Characters

[Fallen]

X-posted from the officials.
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An idea occurred to me when reading one of Kenstrom's storyline releases ... It would be a wonderful punishment for evil characters in storylines to receive brands. Not tattoo's because they can be easily removed, but perhaps something in the feature alteration slot that would show them to be branded as a traitor, or a malcontent, or whatever else is appropriate. It of course could be altered away, but it would represent a REAL punishment for those that choose to do evil and are caught.

Ideally, a new BRAND system would be released that put a special slot on a character. Think tattoos, but not one that can be removed unless specifically flagged by the creator. What would be best is if these brands could act as temporary enhancives. Negative brands would give NEGATIVE enhancives to the wearer, such as a loss of perception, or even curse-like effects. Anything is possible if a new system where to arise to support the idea of a lasting punishment. Positive brands could become a new service available to players. People have been suggesting enhancive tattoos forever.

The brands could also be made to last only a few days, or a week, or a month, or X amount of time before fading away on their own. You could even create an NPC which has you do a quest to remove them. Evil Deity aligned characters could do a Commune and beg their patron to remove their brand from them. The roleplay possibilities are endless, really.

What do people think?

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Evarin and his Mis'ri

[Fallen]

TLDR version: A new system where evil characters can be branded by the good NPCs when they invariably lose and are caught. Penalties would be either just disfigurement, or negative enhancives/status effects.

[Fallen]

I'd like to see such a system tie into BANISHMENT as well. If you're banished you receive a brand that would fire off whenever you tried to sneak into that town. Fades when you either have it removed or your banishment ends, etc.

[Drew]

I'd like to see such a system tie into BANISHMENT as well. If you're banished you receive a brand that would fire off whenever you tried to sneak into that town. Fades when you either have it removed or your banishment ends, etc.

This part of the idea reminds me of Black Sun Rising.

[Warriorbird]

Water tunnels all day, every day. Because good is cheap like that.

:D

[ElvenFury]

What happened to the good old days of cutting out their tongue and locking them in a cage?

[Cephalopod]

What happened to the good old days of cutting out their tongue and locking them in a cage?

That's not an appropriate punishment for the TYPIST.

[TheLastShamurai]

TLDR version: A new system where evil characters can be branded by the good NPCs when they invariably lose and are caught. Penalties would be either just disfigurement, or negative enhancives/status effects.

So are we talking about the Constable or a storyline NPC?

[Fallen]

So are we talking about the Constable or a storyline NPC?

Both. Branding would be a system a GM can apply at will, like they can with tattoos. They are often used in storylines to mark people in various ways. The Constable (or someone else) would just use the same system to automatically apply the brand after you're executed by the justice system.

[TheLastShamurai]

Both. Branding would be a system a GM can apply at will, like they can with tattoos. They are often used in storylines to mark people in various ways. The Constable (or someone else) would just use the same system to automatically apply the brand after you're executed by the justice system.

I gotta admit, I don't like the BRAND idea at all; especially if the Constable is able to do it. I can't imagine that it would do anything but stifle roleplay.

[Fallen]

I gotta admit, I don't like the BRAND idea at all; especially if the Constable is able to do it. I can't imagine that it would do anything but stifle roleplay.

Why is that? The brand would only be applied if you are banished. If you're willing to cause that much trouble, what is a mark on your character that you cannot immediately remove to you?

[HouseofElves]

Playing an evil character is hard enough. I think the problem is a lot of normal characters don't care. The ones that do make it hard enough. If you are specifically mentioning this because of demeyses post on the officials, it would probably serve as an encouragement.

[TheLastShamurai]

Why is that? The brand would only be applied if you are banished. If you're willing to cause that much trouble, what is a mark on your character that you cannot immediately remove to you?

Well, I didn't see anything in your posts to indicate that a brand was exclusive to banished people.

I took this...


I'd like to see such a system tie into BANISHMENT as well.

...to mean in addition to, not exclusive to.

The problem I have with the way it was represented here...


TLDR version: A new system where evil characters can be branded by the good NPCs when they invariably lose and are caught. Penalties would be either just disfigurement, or negative enhancives/status effects.

It of course could be altered away, but it would represent a REAL punishment for those that choose to do evil and are caught.

...is...

1. If the reward for my effort in a GM created storyline meant to foster RP [on both sides] is a stupid brand and negative status effects carried out by the same GM... I see even less reason to participate. Especially considering the "good" guys are typically doing the same thing as us: killing things/people. They get titles for it and I get a negative status effect and/or unwanted disfigurement? Gee thanks. And...

2. The Constable can already catch-pwn you automatically. Now every time I do something "evil" [murder someone], not only do I get instantly caught regardless of how badass I am, now I get to potentially suffer negative side effects. In addition to probably being warn-interacted and getting a SEND from a GM because they're butthurt.

~

Now, that isn't to say that a more robust JUSTICE system doesn't have the potential for adding an immense amount of RP. However, I believe that to achieve that we would need to move beyond our apparent "G" rating we have. And that also isn't to say that this idea doesn't have merit/wouldn't fit into that. I just feel like if it were to stand alone and be implemented by itself, it would have the opposite effect as was intended.

And I do like the idea of being held accountable for my actions. But once again, I feel that to effectively and fairly carry that out, we would need to move past catering to children; which ironically, is probably our smallest demographic.

[Fallen]

I could definitely see the Brand coming with a custom title as well SoandSo the Villain, SoandSo the Dispicable, etc. Brands via quest would not necessarily be all bad mechanically either. They punish your character in an IC manner, but could also be seen as a badge of honor. I would also imagine brands obtained via a quest would also likely receive a pretty massive RPA tied into them. They would represent an acknowledgement of an evil character in both a negative (the brand and associated penalties), with the positives (RPA, title, and in some respects the brand itself)

If you're getting [SEND]s from GMs, that means you are breaking policy, and/or interrupting a storyline. The response to that activity should be handled OOCly.

Brands via the justice system would be handed out once banished via normal mechanics. You have to be a real fuckface to get banished in this game. The brand in that regard could have penalties attached to it besides a mark that cannot be removed, but I would rather they be tied to attempting to enter the town once you're banished. Maybe like a curse effect every 15 minutes or something.

[Parker]

I think that it's hard enough already to find a well-played, truly 'evil' character. If you punish them for being good at being 'evil', then it's just going to smother anyone's desire to do it.

REmember. People are only 'good' and 'bad' in relation to others. If there's nobody to be 'good' against, nobody's good at all.

[zhelas]

I could definitely see the Brand coming with a custom title as well SoandSo the Villain, SoandSo the Dispicable, etc. Brands via quest would not necessarily be all bad mechanically either. They punish your character in an IC manner, but could also be seen as a badge of honor. I would also imagine brands obtained via a quest would also likely receive a pretty massive RPA tied into them. They would represent an acknowledgement of an evil character in both a negative (the brand and associated penalties), with the positives (RPA, title, and in some respects the brand itself

I think the title system could work here. If a person is "Evil" or Bad", a flag would turn on and the character would have said title of "the villain, the despicable, larcenist, or Therapist" After a period of time, 6 months? The flag would turn off.

[TheLastShamurai]

I could definitely see the Brand coming with a custom title as well SoandSo the Villain, SoandSo the Dispicable, etc. Brands via quest would not necessarily be all bad mechanically either. They punish your character in an IC manner, but could also be seen as a badge of honor. I would also imagine brands obtained via a quest would also likely receive a pretty massive RPA tied into them. They would represent an acknowledgement of an evil character in both a negative (the brand and associated penalties), with the positives (RPA, title, and in some respects the brand itself)

If they're handed out in a voluntary basis, I couldn't care less. If it's something the individual wants and feels it enhances their RP, by all means. Which I think would fit great with a BRAND feature slot like you mentioned. I just don't want to walk away from a storyline [in which I know I'm going to lose anyways] with a "hahawepwnedyou" badge across my forehead without my consent. Regardless of its "realism," that would just piss me off.

[Fallen]

Hah. Ok. Shit idea. Moving on, then.

[Furryrat]

REmember. People are only 'good' and 'bad' in relation to others. If there's nobody to be 'good' against, nobody's good at all.

Sorry, the tree still does make a sound.

[crb]

If they're handed out in a voluntary basis, I couldn't care less. If it's something the individual wants and feels it enhances their RP, by all means. Which I think would fit great with a BRAND feature slot like you mentioned. I just don't want to walk away from a storyline [in which I know I'm going to lose anyways] with a "hahawepwnedyou" badge across my forehead without my consent. Regardless of its "realism," that would just piss me off.

Ditto.

I would only accept it if the entire justice system and NPC faggyness was turned off and it was a fair fight.

Cause one of the most unrealistic parts of the game right now is the justice system and how a posse of plebs can take down a capped player. Or the dumbass constable.

Couple that with invasion mechanics where the same high level characters are required to "protect" towns, because the omnipotent godly constable is uncapable of doing so, and you have a case of gross inconsistency.

Of course, the constable functions as it does out of necessity of a justice system. Or else anyone of sufficient power could walk all people in town (which, wouldn't be a horrible thing, and we still have GMs to enforce policy). However it is a source of IC inconsistency that we shouldn't be applying more power to.

Then of course, with GM run storyline NPCs... they're almost always made immunity gods, and that isn't right either. It is of course necessary or they'd be killed before the story finished, but I don't see how giving them another weapon in an already unfair fight is a good idea.

[HouseofElves]

Actually, now that I think about a "mark" something like this was used previously. Siwas has a faint pallid sigil on her wrist, it was given to her by the Captain of the Sapphire Guard in Illistim so he could keep an eye on her during her travels there.

Then again, Siwas's player is awesome and would RP it out even though the GM who gave it to her has never followed up. =(

[Kainen]

Personally I like the brand idea or some kind of mark for people who continiously break the law. However I can see the "real life" side of it. I mean how could the constable REALLY find a master thief or keep a really powerful spellcaster locked up for any length of time.

[TheLastShamurai]

Hah. Ok. Shit idea. Moving on, then.

I definitely don't think it's shit. It's just my belief that more changes to the justice system as a whole would be needed to really make this worthwhile.

The largest of these for me would be eliminating the instant pwnage that the Constable provides. My thoughts on this would be something akin to the bandit system. For example, let's say you kill someone because they upset you. The Constable would then attempt to seek you out, and offer to you the ability to "come quietly." Those who accept the offer would potentially receive a lighter sentencing. Those who decline/don't answer would then be set upon by the Constables lackies much like bandits. They would be like leveled at first.

Obviously, attacking them/evading them would increase your charges/fines. Like bandits they would spring upon you randomly [perhaps with traps], and they would continually get harder until you're caught. If you manage to evade them/kill them off long enough they will contract your bounty out to PC's [not to exceed +10 levels above you to avoid serious abuse]. Also, avoiding them long enough will erase their desire to look for you to some extent, perhaps permanently minus the PC bounty. Only a limited amount of PC's would be able to accept these contracts. For petty crimes, perhaps one. The more serious offenders might have three. Obviously you would want to avoid having the entire PC population after you. Maybe you can even bribe a shady NPC to tell you who has accepted the contract.

In this sense, you have a fighting chance to avoid serious punishment. But if you so desire, you can continue to go rogue and avoid capture [but with the knowledge that punishment will be severe]. Punishment would include what they currently do, plus the brands, banishment and perhaps even public executions for serious enough offenses. I think to make this a worthwhile avenue of RP, they would also need to offer supernodes outside of town so that your RP choices don't interfere with your mechanical growth as a PC.

Something more robust like this would make brands [even ones with negative enhancements] an acceptable arena in my mind. A lot of times when people commit crimes in town they just wait around to be captured since they know it's inevitable. This would allow them to basically turn themselves in to avoid getting branded. But if they get off on that sort of nonsense, it gives them an avenue to RP that out in an interesting manner.

Titles based on crimes committed and their frequency would also amuse me. They would need to be voluntary though, and only available for certain lengths of time and in certain geographical zones. Things like Criminal, Hated, Hunted, Outlaw, etc.

[BriarFox]

How about a brand that simply prevents hiding and invis in town, and perhaps also keeps you from entering any of the businesses? Basically, it puts you at the mercy of the Banishment justice system.

>hide

As you try to blend with the surroundings, the brand on your wrist glows with a dark emerald light, revealing your location.
RT: 10 seconds

>inc 916

As you try to shroud yourself in invisibility, the brand on your wrist glows with a dark emerald light, revealing your location.
RT: 10 seconds

>go inn

As you attempt to enter the inn, the brand on your wrist announces you to the owner, who promptly throws you out.