Instancing and Gemstone? A possible reality! (Xpost from Officials)

[Traelin]

(My post on the Officials. Gemstone IV -> Game Design Discussions -> Developer's Corner - Game Design)

Hello fellow players and GM's. I have an idea that I'm sure may have been brought up a time or two in the past. I think this is something that could definitely revitalize some more interest in Gemstone and really advance the game into the current gaming trends.

I believe that instancing is a real possibility and something that would be very desirable by the people who enjoy this game. The mechanic could be relatively simple, or a little more complex depending upon how you want to do it.

I consider the Grimswarm Warcamps a type of instancing for example. People go into them solo or with parties and clear them out to get to the treasure chest at the end, which awards loot depending upon how many creatures you killed in your little adventure.

This same system could be used for just a similar type of questing/instancing.

For example there could be an NPC in each major town that has a quest to give (similar to the bounty system). You would need to go to a specific area of Elanthia and take out a troublesome monster or group of orcs/trolls/ogres, a meddlesome sorcerer, a powerful warlord or whatever. There could be a noble family of elves that need to be rescued. Maybe there could be an item that needs to be retrieved because a group of bandits stole it, such as a family treasure of some sort.

These quests could be weekly or monthly. Say for instance you go to the NPC this week. Grogg Nickleslot in Wehnimer's Landing tells you about a dangerous priest in Spider Temple that needs to be destroyed because he is gathering a group of hertics that are performing dark magic that could threaten the safety of nearby residents. When you take your band of adventurers there you could go through a portal and enter an instanced version of Spider Temple that has creatures that match the highest player's level to battle.

If this is too difficult to implement it could be just a more difficult or instanced version of current hunting grounds but with a little storyline behind it.

When you complete the main objective there could be a treasure room/chest, just like there is in a completed grimswarm camp.

Items that could be generated from the treasure system could be items with enhancives of course, randomly generated from a loot table depending upon level of those involved. It wouldn't have to be a lot of items or anything necessarily game breaking. Just something that is better than average and useful to someone. Anything similar to the items we sometimes see from Grimswarm camps for example. Extra fame could also be generated from doing these quests.

If it is a monthly event perhaps you could be limited to doing the quest once per week or if it is weekly you could do it just once.

This system would encourage cooperation and give players a tangible goal that could be reached weekly. I know a lot of players complain now a days that there is less interaction among their peers and this could definitely promote individuals to group up again and adventure.

The bounty system was definitely a step in the right direction. The warcamps were another leap forward for this game. I think adding this mechanic could definitely add a lot more appeal.

Anyway, thanks for reading my idea and hope to hear your ideas/concerns.



(http://www.play.net/forums/messages.asp?forum=102&category=6&topic=2)

Help it generate some steam please if you like the idea.

[m444w]

Isn't this the AG?

[g++]

Will the instanced quests reward frost emblems? This is kind of a deal breaker for me.

[crb]

You would need to go to a specific area of Elanthia and take out a troublesome monster or group of orcs/trolls/ogres,

Perhaps... would one describe this monster as grizzled?

[Traelin]

Isn't this the AG?

No, the mechanics would be different. If anything it would be similar to the Grimswarm warcamps. Instances would not award AG bounty points to allow you to add enhancives to your badge or charge items.

This would be for a single to multiple item loot drop which have enhancive properties, such as armor, weapons, jewelry, etc. Possibly a nice cloak or container could drop.

The only similarity it would have to the AG is a task, such as saving a group of individuals or killing a grizzled monster type of thing.

So you really can't equate the two to being the same thing.

[Traelin]

Perhaps... would one describe this monster as grizzled?

Similar but not the same, in an instanced version there would be limitations to how often it can be achieved and more reward upon completion. Hopefully with more difficulty as well.

[StrayRogue]

I like the idea of instancing. The grimswarm camps are pretty cool in how they allow you to be able to hunt at any level at any town.

Plus I think it would also add a lot of character and history and RP to a typical hunt. At least for the first few tries.

[AnticorRifling]

Will the instanced quests reward frost emblems? This is kind of a deal breaker for me.

LOL awesome.

[Ryvicke]

If only Gemstone had more than one regular coder.

[Traelin]

If only Gemstone had more than one regular coder.

^

[Fallen]

Plus I think it would also add a lot of character and history and RP to a typical hunt. At least for the first few tries.

That's the crux. They've introduced instanced quests via the Adventure guild to the furthest extent that they make sense to do them time after time after time. Even then, the logic of some of these tasks repeated ad nauseum becomes more than a bit fuzzy.

Having some formalized quest system, however varied, would eventually result in the same people doing the same things. Worse, they could bar characters from repeating the same quest twice, thus wasting a large amount of code once your main has run through them all. It isn't in the nature of gemstone to release monthly, quarterly, or even yearly updates to a system to keep it fresh. We're lucky if it continues to run without glaring bugs and errors.

What I DO think is that the Adventurer's guild could be greatly expanded upon. The addition of Bandit tasks is a key example of how this system can grow. Short of completely suspending our disbelief, the bounty system is the way to go, else we will all be heading off to slay the Lich King every few weeks, ala WoW.

[HouseofElves]

I think this would differ in the way of bounty quests because you would essentially be able to do the same similar content over and over, is that what you are shooting for Traelin? So from say 1-5 you could do the same "instance" over and over again until you can no longer "access" it because you are over the level limit?

I link it to the kind of infamous quests that are associated with certain levels in WoW, ie Hogger, Finding Mankrik's wife and more recently the Wrathgate event.

It would be nice if they not only gave a repeating reward but each mob or ending chest had a certain percentage of dropping enchancives, pre-designed alters, extremely light containers, and even high-end items depending on difficulty.

Example: Level 1-5 go into the back store room of a local shop and help destroy a rat problem - Random loot drops from the rat nest when searched

Level 30-35 Head into the lair of a group of thieves - Random loot drops of their leader

If this was implemented the only two difficult parts would next would be adopting an in-game looting system to prevent PuG like ninjas. And gemstone is (thankfully) a persistent world, so it would be hard to explain why you could go in and save an elven family over and over from a dark wizard and it seems like too much work to just code something like that without making it repeatable.

[Traelin]

That does make sense to make it somewhat repeatable. At least to make it less of a major undertaking each week for a GM to be responsible for. But then again It would be a little more enjoyable if the scenario changed on a weekly or monthly basis and wasn't dependent upon leveling so to speak.

I think once a basic system is in place you could merely just change a few minor things each month (Location, Creature, Loot Table) and come up with a somewhat appealing anecdote to keep it exciting.

Examples:
January - Defeat the horrible priest at Spider Temple and stop his dark magic!
February - Black Forest Ogres have captured an Elven Noble! Find him and lead him out!
March - Minotaurs have been extremely aggressive outside of their territory, go to their lair and quell the uprising!

etc.

I was thinking along the line of basically making varying scenarios using existing map information (in separate instances) and using the Grimswarm Warcamp type mechanics. Then adding loot upon completion of the "boss" or "gauntlet" type of event and a quest turn in that gives you fame/exp or whatever.

And like I stated, the items don't have to be God-Auction quality. Just decent enough to where it would be useful. Weapons/Armor/Jewelry with enhancives or containers that are above average with decent descriptions and quality.

[Traelin]

After some afterthought I think the best route for this to go IS with the adventurer's guild, since that is already a complete system that is already in place.

Basically what would I be happy with is if they added some weekly/monthly group required events using Grimswarm Warcamp mechanics via the adventurer's guild. At the end of these events you could possibly get a piece of loot that I described in an earlier post.

[Fallen]

After some afterthought I think the best route for this to go IS with the adventurer's guild, since that is already a complete system that is already in place.

Basically what would I be happy with is if they added some weekly/monthly group required events using Grimswarm Warcamp mechanics via the adventurer's guild. At the end of these events you could possibly get a piece of loot that I described in an earlier post.

They have recently added the ability to group up via the guild. It seems like they want to ENCOURAGE group play, but not make it manditory. I think of the Adventurer's Guild as a society that doesn't come with powers, just loot.

I do like one idea at the heart of your suggestions, untying level with hunting ground. I wouldn't mind being sent to lower level hunting grounds, as so long as I was killing things my level. The problem is, as you said, everyone hunting there normally would be slaughtered. So now we're talking about making a copy of Spider Temple, for instance, and giving it to me and only me to play with. That seems like it could cause all SORTS of problems coding/logistics wise. If it is some place NEW, then we're right back at GoS and Warcamps. It's been done. It could be added to the Adventurer's guild with "bandit camps", but that would be basically a port of a GoS feature.

The last suggestion I could offer you is to try to tie your ideas into Voln, Traellin. If you could come up with a way to work in instanced quest, which is essentially what Voln is now, so that they can be repeated, and/or perhaps done with people OUTSIDE of Voln, you could kill 2 birds with one stone.

[Traelin]

The last suggestion I could offer you is to try to tie your ideas into Voln, Traellin. If you could come up with a way to work in instanced quest, which is essentially what Voln is now, so that they can be repeated, and/or perhaps done with people OUTSIDE of Voln, you could kill 2 birds with one stone.

The problem with the Voln situation is that it requires you to be in that society, which is kind of the same problem as GoS right now. You have to be in GoS if you want to experience a warcamp (unless you group with someone in GoS of course).

I was looking for something that was not society required, had some more difficulty than normal warcamps per say, and added a little more storyline into the mix to keep it fresh.

I could definitely see some issues coming up with coding specific instances of existing hunting grounds but I'm sure it could be done. With what degree of difficulty, I have no idea. Another issue with scaling up a existing area's difficulty is the fact that you would have to modify the current creatures there to match someone who comes in the instance. I don't think that would be easy.

As far as just making a clone of GoS warcamps for the AG yea I could see that being monotonous and perhaps decreasing some of the allure for being in GoS, but I don't think it would be terrible.

[HouseofElves]

Well I think part of the allure of raids/instances and the like is that increased difficulty (of putting a group together and spending that much time in there) allows for better gear. I mean that is what makes people addicted to raiding in WoW is that possible hope of great rewards.

Allowing a slim chance of excellent rewards through the completion of these means (though higher than that of random boxfounds) could lead to increased enthusiasm over the project.

[Traelin]

I just think it's unlikely that GM's are going to give out any gear that is extremely good with a system like this in place?

What kind of gear would be reasonable for doing such instanced and quest events?

[StrayRogue]

Haven't things like this been done before? Hunt for History? The rewards were not worth the price IIRC.

[Tolwynn]

How about a katana?

[Fallen]

Haven't things like this been done before? Hunt for History? The rewards were not worth the price IIRC.

I never got to do hunt for history, but I think you're right. That's pretty much exactly what he's mentioning. That, or the little quests on the Wavedancer.

[HouseofElves]

I think there would be minor promised rewarded, appropriate for level. (IE Level 1-5 would always reward a three sip class appropriate potion only usable to that person. Level 80-90 might reward a VLA container that weighs little.)

But the chance for the end *event* thing/chest/person to drop extra items would be awesome.

But I'm behind the idea regardless. =)

[AMUSED1]

I never got to do hunt for history, but I think you're right. That's pretty much exactly what he's mentioning. That, or the little quests on the Wavedancer.

The rewards for me during the Hunt for History were very worth the price.

[Methais]

The rewards for me during the Hunt for History were very worth the price.

My reward from Hunt For History II was a 60 day ban for GMA because some GM made the item you had to get from under the wagon wheel for one of the puzzles a) Infinite and b) Worth about 5k at the gem shop.

You can probably figure out the rest of this story...

[Makkah]

My reward from Hunt For History II was a 60 day ban for GMA because some GM made the item you had to get from under the wagon wheel for one of the puzzles a) Infinite and b) Worth about 5k at the gem shop.

You can probably figure out the rest of this story...

Yea, that doesn't sound like GMA at all. That GM deserved it.

It's a shame it was only 60 days, honestly.

[Methais]

Yea, that doesn't sound like GMA at all. That GM deserved it.

It's a shame it was only 60 days, honestly.

YOU GO DIE NOWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!7

[Danical]

Before the introduction of quests, grizzled creatures should spawn naturally in hunting grounds. This would make combat more dangerous, and exciting. Additionally, adding grizzled creatures would increase phat lewtz because they would be, hopefully, higher level than the character hunting in the area.

[Traelin]

Instanced areas are definitely possible in GemStone. The real problem, as Greminty has pointed out, is finding a use for this kind of mechanic that is appropriate for the flavor and style of the game.

--
Naos

I'm immune to fire! Now with more banhammer! You sense the bond between you and your grey cat grow stronger.


A post on the officials.

[Warriorbird]

My reward from Hunt For History II was a 60 day ban for GMA because some GM made the item you had to get from under the wagon wheel for one of the puzzles a) Infinite and b) Worth about 5k at the gem shop.

You can probably figure out the rest of this story...

You're the reason they can't have nice bugs.